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The Long Night Part One: Embers in the Dusk: A Planetary Governor Quest (43k) Complete Sequel Up

Investigate the Sea?

  • Yes

    Votes: 593 80.4%

  • No

    Votes: 145 19.6%
  • Total voters
    738
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[X] Plan Harassment Resumes

I'm all for this slow down Headcrusha and get more time to kill off more of his competent subordinates. And then we go full overkill on him Deathstrikes, Kaiju Mittens, psyker, and if all else fails ram him with a starship.
 
[X] Plan Harassment Resumes

I'd prefer to have our psykers actively taking fighta's down but we should be fine unless we're particularly unlucky.
 
I think we have about another month on planet maybe 5 or 6 weeks.

Ok hopefully the harassment works well (which it should) buying us 2 weeks before Headcrusha gets to where he is going. That two weeks would give us enough time to kill or whittle down the current besieging orks so we can deploy the helltroopers/hellguard in sufficient numbers, with reinforcements to have one big battle with missiles psykers and neutron lasers.

I figure that will be another 2 to 3 weeks than clean up and go home.
 
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Nurgle said:
I think we have about another month on planet maybe 5 or 6 weeks.

Ok hopefully the harassment works well (which it should) buying us 2 weeks before Headcrusha gets to where he is going. That two weeks would give us enough time to kill or whittle down the current besieging orks so we can deploy the helltroopers/hellguard in sufficient numbers, with reinforcements to have one big battle with missiles psykers and neutron lasers.

I figure that will be another 2 to 3 weeks than clean up and go home.
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Honestly, I think the cleanup after defeating the main horde will be one war turn at most. These Orks simply don't have enough aces to pose a real threat since they've not made any effort to conserve or concentrate them.

Only thing that could pose a threat to us really is DumbDumb dying too early or Freddies hero's luck playing up real bad and dumping us in an unfortunate duel.

Maybe we should get a choir ready to teleport us out.
 
Piren'e Colass said:
Honestly, I think the cleanup after defeating the main horde will be one war turn at most. These Orks simply don't have enough aces to pose a real threat since they've not made any effort to conserve or concentrate them.

Only thing that could pose a threat to us really is DumbDumb dying too early or Freddies hero's luck playing up real bad and dumping us in an unfortunate duel.

Maybe we should get a choir ready to teleport us out.
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I figure it be 4 to 5 weeks of fighting, followed by clean up. Mostly because killing 20 billion orks is going to take a while.
 
hmm, we may have an issue. assuming 1 army moves out of the quantum reserve per horde, we're going to have 5 general armies left when the last two big armies hit. We can move troops by train but I'm assuming not at a super fast rate. This may leave us a bit thin on regulars when dealing with the last two hordes.

[X] Plan Harassment Resumes

hopefully, harassment will give us time to start moving things around. also, @Enjou you might want to start shipping troops from cities that saw off their horde to cities that have one inbound. we're going to be thin on guard armies when the big boys arrive.
 
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@Durin, is the Ecclesiarchy allowed to have guards to guard relics and personnel or would that break the "Ecclesiarchy can't have warriors" rule?
 
Andres110 said:
That was in the Imperium. In the Trust, the Ecclesiarchy isn't allowed to have warriors at all, which is why the Sisters of Battle haven't been refounded.
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The witch hunters are warriors of the church still. They're just not allowed the SoB because they've been corrupted and go crazy thanks to the abomination.
 
Doomed Wombat said:
The witch hunters are warriors of the church still. They're just not allowed the SoB because they've been corrupted and go crazy thanks to the abomination.
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That doesn't make sense. The non-militant orders of the Adepta Sororitas were just as faithful and zealous as the Sisters of Battle yet we still have Sisters Hospitaller and Dialogous. Just as they have been reformed to avoid corruption, so too would hypothetical Sisters of Battle.

Not that you're completely wrong. The Witch Hunters are indeed Ministorum's warriors, I forgot about that. Can't really think why the Sisters of Battle haven't been refounded now, if only to guard the members and property of the Ecclesiarchy.
 
Andres110 said:
That doesn't make sense. The non-militant orders of the Adepta Sororitas were just as faithful and zealous as the Sisters of Battle yet we still have Sisters Hospitaller and Dialogous. Just as they have been reformed to avoid corruption, so too would hypothetical Sisters of Battle.

Not that you're completely wrong. The Witch Hunters are indeed Ministorum's warriors, I forgot about that. Can't really think why the Sisters of Battle haven't been refounded now, if only to guard the members and property of the Ecclesiarchy.
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Because I'd imagine there's a difference between being a fanatical zealot and using that to punch face and being a fanatical zealot and using it to heal people.

In 40K one makes very different resonances in the warp to the other.

Combine this with the fact that the SoB's were by a mile the most recognisable and associated with the Emperor out of the adeptus sororitas, which means the Abomination automatically grabbed almost all of them as it's grabbed a lot of the Imperium's most recognisable and associated with the Emperor stuff like the Aquilla.

And at the end of the day, it was a stupid rule the Eclesiarchy used to get around the fact that they were forbidden from arming men, if the Church wants and needs soldiers then we have Witch Hunters, who are better than them (About 20 years after we created them they had the average will power of a sororitas veteran, before we had Strong Will and the like. I'd imagine we blow them out of the water now.)
 
Doomed Wombat said:
Because I'd imagine there's a difference between being a fanatical zealot and using that to punch face and being a fanatical zealot and using it to heal people.

In 40K one makes very different resonances in the warp to the other.

Combine this with the fact that the SoB's were by a mile the most recognisable and associated with the Emperor out of the adeptus sororitas, which means the Abomination automatically grabbed almost all of them as it's grabbed a lot of the Imperium's most recognisable and associated with the Emperor stuff like the Aquilla.
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I find this strain of reasoning insufficient, given how much it requires that you ignore the Ecclesiarchy's position in the Imperium and its continued existence in the Trust.
The last paragraph is also contradicted by the Emperor himself. Even though near everyone thought he was a god, he was never at any point a god. Similarly, just because everyone might think Sisters of Battle are associated with the Abomination doesn't mean they actually are. That power of belief doesn't seem to affect people (and by extension organisations).
 
Andres110 said:
I find this strain of reasoning insufficient, given how much it requires that you ignore the Ecclesiarchy's position in the Imperium and its continued existence in the Trust.
The last paragraph is also contradicted by the Emperor himself. Even though near everyone thought he was a god, he was never at any point a god. Similarly, just because everyone might think Sisters of Battle are associated with the Abomination doesn't mean they actually are. That power of belief doesn't seem to affect people (and by extension organisations).
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The Ecclesiarchy of the Trust and that of the Imperium are about as different as you can imagine, Lin has ripped out most of its rituals because they were tainted with the abomination and replaced them with new ones, the books have been thrown out same reason as the rituals, the hierarchy's gone, their power is gone because that encouraged abomination thinking (he did it after abominites on Alfheim and Vanaheim high up the ranks tried to get the church control of the high council.) The two are so different I'm not even sure our religion even has an Ecclesiarchy anymore. So no I don't think, that the two are similar, our people think about them differently and we've taken such strenuous measures to deal with the abomination that its actually kinda hilarious.

In Quest he became a God on the Throne, and that logic is contradicted in quest as well. The power of belief is a really big deal, its why researching it in the first place. Its why we can't just bombard Headcrusha to ash. People believing on a vast scale in 40K causes things to happen it may just be an increased chance of falling, but why bother with that increased chance when we can avoid the issue entirely.

We don't need the Sisters of Battle.
 
Doomed Wombat said:
The Ecclesiarchy of the Trust and that of the Imperium are about as different as you can imagine, Lin has ripped out most of its rituals because they were tainted with the abomination and replaced them with new ones, the books have been thrown out same reason as the rituals, the hierarchy's gone, their power is gone because that encouraged abomination thinking (he did it after abominites on Alfheim and Vanaheim high up the ranks tried to get the church control of the high council.) The two are so different I'm not even sure our religion even has an Ecclesiarchy anymore. So no I don't think, that the two are similar, our people think about them differently and we've taken such strenuous measures to deal with the abomination that its actually kinda hilarious.
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There is a single word to describe everything you just said about the Trust Ecclesiarchy: reformation. Reformation also happened to the Adepta Sororitas of the Nine Worlds. Reformation could also happen to hypothetical Sisters of Battle. I'm not sure why you think they need to be the exact same as they were in the Imperium when the Ecclesiarchy and other Sororitas aren't.

Doomed Wombat said:
We don't need the Sisters of Battle.
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I know. However, we don't need the Sisters Hospitaller either yet they still exist. I'm not saying we should refound them, just that I don't understand why the Sororitas or Ecclesiarchy haven't refounded them themselves. I do believe there's a reason why the Sisters of Battle haven't been refounded, I just don't believe it's because of lack of necessity or because of the Abomination stuff you've argued.
 
Andres110 said:
There is a single word to describe everything you just said about the Trust Ecclesiarchy: reformation. Reformation also happened to the Adepta Sororitas of the Nine Worlds. Reformation could also happen to hypothetical Sisters of Battle. I'm not sure why you think they need to be the exact same as they were in the Imperium when the Ecclesiarchy and other Sororitas aren't.


I know. However, we don't need the Sisters Hospitaller either yet they still exist. I'm not saying we should refound them, just that I don't understand why the Sororitas or Ecclesiarchy haven't refounded them themselves. I do believe there's a reason why the Sisters of Battle haven't been refounded, I just don't believe it's because of lack of necessity or because of the Abomination stuff you've argued.
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No that's metamorphosis, reformation would imply that we're keeping it mostly the same and just fixing the bad bits. But, the Eclisiarchy was so bad that everything was the bad bits. Apart from priest of the Emperor, there is bugger all similar between the two.

Because they've been reformed.

Into the Witch Hunters. Who fulfil the exact same role, without the increased chances of falling.

Perhaps the reason they've not been reformed is that there are none to reform them and all the ones with the skills to reform them are busy being Witch Hunters, but since you don't believe that.

@Durin
1. For what reason have the Sisters of Battle of the Adeptus Sororitas not been reformed in the Imperial Trust, beyond them being completely redundant and corrupted to the extent that to remake them we'd need to turn them into something completely different.
 
Andres110 said:
You're putting words in my mouth. Don't do that.
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Well what am I supposed to do? I've offered what I feel are the two simplest explanations and you've rejected both of them because you don't think they're right
Andres110 said:
I do believe there's a reason why the Sisters of Battle haven't been refounded, I just don't believe it's because of lack of necessity or because of the Abomination stuff you've argued
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So what is the reason you think.
 
Doomed Wombat said:
Well what am I supposed to do?
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For starters, you can avoid saying that I don't believe a thing when I've never said I don't believe the thing.

Doomed Wombat said:
So what is the reason you think.
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If I had to guess, it's in part because combat-talented Sororitas candidates are taken by the Witch Hunters and the Astra Militarum and in part because the Ministorum has founded a new organisation to guard them and their stuff. (One that's less effective than Sisters of Battle lest their members get poached by the WH and IG.)

EDIT: To clarify, I have no idea if the Ecclesiarchy has done that latter thing.
 
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There is no reason to recreate the Adeptus Sororitas at all, all they did was provide groups of fighters, medicae, translators ect who happened to be fanatics as well.
We dont want fanatics.
Every task done by a Sororitas order can also be done by a non fanatic of either gender, they have no value at all for the trust.
 
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