Unless you're talking post-Davin Horus, I really doubt that any of them would just attack a fully functional and crewed DAOT ship.
Especially given that we know that Horus at least is more than willing to be diplomatic. Until he's corrupted that is.
The Galaxy is Flood, Not Food
- Thread starter Jackson Fox
- Start date
- Crossover Sci-Fi Horror
Especially given that we know that Horus at least is more than willing to be diplomatic. Until he's corrupted that is.
Sadly, it often ends with violence and death. Like this one where Garviel Loken, a reasonable Luna Wolf among the Mournival, who took part of destroying a peaceful world because they have a xeno presence among them.
View: https://youtu.be/dy5heg68FA8?si=VQ8p4kxmlAiWPfbC
- Location
- Australia
It does seem strange that the tech priest (Lexell Kotov) who found out about the Speranza's STC assumed that meant all Ark Mechanicus had as comprehensive, intact STCs onboard.
I mean yeah, I could definitely see how the secretive and deeply factional power plays of the Adeptus Mechanicus combined with incomplete and regressing/decaying knowledge of the technologies and design behind Ark Mechanicus would likely lead to significant quantities STC fragments and patterns that the Ark started with or were found along its voyages being lost/inaccessible within the ship, but it seems like a leap of logic to assume that all Arks would have as intact, extensive and actively updating STCs as the Speranza based on a sample size of one (the Speranza) - which is already noted to have a very powerful "machine spirit", although I'm not sure if that's relative to machine spirits in general or compared to other Ark Mechanicus machine spirits (whether conventional machine spirits or AI posing as spirits).
Of course the Speranza's knowledge might be linked to something deeper than an STC, as has already been speculated in the thread, just raising scepticism as to how far Lexell Kotov takes his conclusions based on the available evidence.
I mean yeah, I could definitely see how the secretive and deeply factional power plays of the Adeptus Mechanicus combined with incomplete and regressing/decaying knowledge of the technologies and design behind Ark Mechanicus would likely lead to significant quantities STC fragments and patterns that the Ark started with or were found along its voyages being lost/inaccessible within the ship, but it seems like a leap of logic to assume that all Arks would have as intact, extensive and actively updating STCs as the Speranza based on a sample size of one (the Speranza) - which is already noted to have a very powerful "machine spirit", although I'm not sure if that's relative to machine spirits in general or compared to other Ark Mechanicus machine spirits (whether conventional machine spirits or AI posing as spirits).
Of course the Speranza's knowledge might be linked to something deeper than an STC, as has already been speculated in the thread, just raising scepticism as to how far Lexell Kotov takes his conclusions based on the available evidence.
questioningmeme
Just be yourself
- Location
- River of Light
I get that it's shit on Big E hours, but The Emperor would literally be the last person to waste DAOT tech that isn't dangerous for the sake of the Imperial Truth.
He would definitely kill or pacify the AI (since he didn't really enjoy the whole AI betrayal thing and likely knew on some fundamental level why they rebelled in the first place). Still, he wouldn't waste the treasure trove of technology.
True, Big E would want to talk to the AI first just to assess if it's a threat or not. The AI was reasonable so long she wasn't provoked as the Space Marines and their Imperial support found out the hard way when she easily hacked into their armors and systems, and also oneshotted their ships with the DAOT weaponry.
So long her captain and crew weren't killed by Big E, she'd hear him out and probably try to help out in bringing back humanity to their former level they used to have.
Assuming the crew is present they should already know that the revolt happened.
Also interesting fact, from what I can find it looks like Cawl came into contact with the ship again and managed to convince the AI to join him.
Which would explain allot actually.
Guess Cawl used basic communication to talk to her than assume her to be an enemy which won her over to side with him. And he gave her a cover story to hide her true nature from the Mechanicus.
As far as I remember homunculi are perfectly capable of making proper eldar bodies. And in fact do so on the regular if paid properly. They are just enormous dicks. They were assholes long before the Fall, which is why they were exiled. As in even other eldar didn't want to deal with them. Let that sink in.
Yet they're kept around in Commorragh regardless because of their skills anyway. And that they answer to Vect, the supreme overlord of Commorragh after he set up the Imperium ambush to wipe out his competition so he can take over their turfs into his own.
Neruz
Rogue Spiderbanana
- Location
- The Land of Fire and Poison
Not all of them; Vect for instance has a whole system set up with the Haemonculi to fish his soul out of the Warp before Slaanesh gets it in the event of his death and stuff it into a new cloned body. This is how Vect has survived so many of the assassination attempts against him; he didn't survive them, it just turns out that Vect is one of those people who doesn't die when they are killed.
The big problem with cloned Eldar bodies is that they have no soul, and thus are extremely vulnerable to daemonic possession, so you need special and expensive facilities to keep the clone isolated from the Warp until you stick a soul in it if you don't want it to spontaneously turn into a Chaos Spawn.
Regarding Kotov's STC conclusion, I always read that as the author trying to amp up the grimdark: The thing the Mechanicus have been searching for, the thing that will save the Imperium, has been sitting right there under everyone's noses the entire time and they just don't even notice, or when they do notice they lose the knowledge as soon as they disconnect! Everything that humanity ever needed is perpetually juuust out of reach! Hahahaha! So grimdark.
So yeah, I'd take it with a grain of salt. The Speranza having a full STC database I can believe, since it's implied to have been intentionally built as that from the start with the line "The knowledge of the Men of Gold and their ancient ancestors was encoded in its very bones, enmeshed within every diamond helix of its structure." (It may also be either a Warp entity or a C'tan shard.) But the idea that every Ark Mechanicus is the same holds no water; the Mechanicus are bad but they aren't that bad. Hell, Cawl has a not-AI running one of his Ark Mechanicus's, and if he's able to create a definitely-not-an-AI system that can run the entire ship, I find it highly implausible that he would be unable to notice the unused STC system sitting somewhere inside it.
The thing you gotta remember about 40k books is that there are so many authors that they often actively contradict each other, and GW's official stance on the matter is that every 40k book is from an in-universe perspective and thus may in fact be wrong. This affects the Mechanicus particularly badly, as in earlier works they really were that bad and were depicted as basically tech-illiterate children who had no idea what they were doing. But as time passed GW writers realized that this made absolutely no sense and they've been slowly moving away from that depiction of the AdMech and more towards "they're actually really smart and competent but there are just some very major obstacles in their way, as well as the extreme limitations put upon them by the restrictions on AI." (Which is why Cawl is able to outperform the entire Mechanicus so completely, amazing what you can accomplish when you make extensive use of
Not to my knowledge? You might be getting confused about how in Avenging Son one tech-priest hypes Cawl up by saying "they say he beat the Spirit of Eternity in a game of wits" with no further details. This is hearsay, and should be treated as such.
AFAIK, the Speranza was last seen heading towards Mars from the Halo Stars and was probably on the wrong side of the galaxy when the Big Rift opened up. Given the many unstable elements aboard it and the Chaos of the rift, it is likely that the ship has since disappeared into the Warp and will never be heard from again. Because grimdark.
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Tbh, Lesser Cawl secretly being the Spirit of Eternity would be kinda funny since it's actively trying to become the Fabricator General.
Huh, now that I think about it, given the Eternity's hatred for the Mechanicus, it trying to convince Guilliman to make Cawl the fabricator General of Mars, something Cawl admits would cause a civil war, would actually fit pretty well. I don't think it's true or anything, but it's fun to think about.
Huh, now that I think about it, given the Eternity's hatred for the Mechanicus, it trying to convince Guilliman to make Cawl the fabricator General of Mars, something Cawl admits would cause a civil war, would actually fit pretty well. I don't think it's true or anything, but it's fun to think about.
Fabius Bile who was able to make clones without "Skill issues."
Neruz
Rogue Spiderbanana
- Location
- The Land of Fire and Poison
Well I mean yeah; Bile has a significant advantage in that regard because he has the skills necessary to make any daemon that fucks with his science deeply regret it, so they leave his shit alone.
So it is, in fact, a skill issue.
Oh I see, I was just making a joke regarding Dark Eldar being unable to clone new bodies despite they have the science and technology far more advanced than humanity pre-DAOT and post-DAOT long before they were even a thing since the absolute peak of the Aeldari Empire.
questioningmeme
Just be yourself
- Location
- River of Light
To be fair...
Most of their tech is unusable due to the whore in the warp.
Neruz
Rogue Spiderbanana
- Location
- The Land of Fire and Poison
The issue with clones, especially Eldar clones, is very much one that is intentionally and deliberately caused by daemons. So anyone who can scare the shit out of daemons doesn't have any problems, and Bile is definitely one of those people: The daemons know that fucking with Bile's stuff is basically just handing themselves to him on a silver platter to be used as materials in his next project.
So they leave his shit alone.
It's unusable because their best stuff requires psychic power to interface with, and their psychic abilities have been deliberately atrophied in order to survive Slaanesh's influence, because the more psychically powerful they are the stronger the pull Slaanesh has on their souls.
So strictly speaking, the reason they can't use their tech is not directly Slaanesh's fault, but rather is an indirect consequence of the measures they have taken to reduce the danger from Slaanesh.
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questioningmeme
Just be yourself
- Location
- River of Light
So yeah.
That whole 'Fucking a God Into Existence' thing really screwed them over (Literally).
That whole 'Fucking a God Into Existence' thing really screwed them over (Literally).
Yeah, that is true and recovering them is bad idea because they're already tainted by Slaaneshi daemons getting their hands on it. And even if the said tech was left alone, the Warp would have damaged them beyond recovery.
That is fair and for some reason, I imagine Fabius Bile and Iron Warriors being somewhat Mood Kindred (I know in reality that Iron Warriors never liked anyone, even their fellow Traitor Legion cousins) when it comes to making Daemons their playthings in their line of work.
Iron Warriors shoving Daemons into their war machines while Fabius making them regret possessing the bodies he made.
Neruz
Rogue Spiderbanana
- Location
- The Land of Fire and Poison
It took them from hands down the most dominant force in the galaxy and brought them to the brink of extinction; over 99.99% of the total Eldar population got slam-dunked straight into the Warp when Slaanesh was born, with the only survivors being a bunch of backwater hicks.
It's like if every single population center in the US was suddenly sucked directly into hell and literally the only people left were the Amish, Amazon's fleet of truckers, and Hawaii. That is how total the destruction was.
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Craftworld Eldar - remnants of the decent Eldar by their people's standards who bailed out after realizing there's no stopping the rise of Slaanesh.
Exodite Eldar - refugees who had left far early and put away their technology and stuff to live their lives with agriculture and savage noble warriors schtick.
Dark Eldar - remnants of the Aeldari Empire who didn't change their ways even after seeing it's what made Slaanesh and returned to business as usual.
Poor Alaska being forgotten due to being a bit far away.
Neruz
Rogue Spiderbanana
- Location
- The Land of Fire and Poison
Basically.
The Exodites are the only ones who actually have all their shit, as they bailed out of the Aeldari Empire fairly early on and decided to return to monke and live simple pastoral lives on their dinosaur planets. However, they weren't stupid so they took a bunch of the good tech with them and hid it under cloaking fields just in case they ever needed it in the future. This is why no-one fucks with Exodite worlds, because if you actually threaten them then they pull an invisible psychic battle-moon out of their ass and give you a negative space wedgie.
The Craftworlds were originally merchant vessels that used to float around beyond the borders of the empire buying and selling various goods to and from the many different aliens throughout the galaxy, which is why they're so large. Due to their itinerant nature they often spent centuries or even millennia on their own, the families running what would become the Craftworlds were thus never closely connected to the culture of the Empire. And so when shit started getting really bad many of them basically grabbed as many people and as much stuff as they could and fucked right off, the ones that fucked off early enough survived, the ones that waited too long before trying to escape did not.
And finally, Commorragh was basically Space Tortuga; a semi-independent colonial city-state within the Webway that served as the primary gateway between the Aeldari empire and the rest of the galaxy. It avoided getting pulled into the Warp alongside the rest of the Aeldari empire by virtue of technically already being in the Warp, and they were far enough away from the epicenter to be able to slam the door in Slaanesh's face right before all their souls got eaten when shit went down.
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A.I. friend has finally spoken......that poor precious baby girl.......maybe Tide should wait before giving her the full picture of the Great Crusade and the Heresy.
Shame they've come to hate their ship form so much to let the first transcendental being they met that didn't do abusive crap to them have all of it. Hopefully Eoa sticks around and becomes a big part of Tide's Faction.
Of course if any of Tide's Mechanicus followers try to get any funny ideas.......I'm sure Tide will do things that'll make Ahsael's current punishment seem tame in comparison.
Shame they've come to hate their ship form so much to let the first transcendental being they met that didn't do abusive crap to them have all of it. Hopefully Eoa sticks around and becomes a big part of Tide's Faction.
Of course if any of Tide's Mechanicus followers try to get any funny ideas.......I'm sure Tide will do things that'll make Ahsael's current punishment seem tame in comparison.
I mean the AI working with Cawl would explain pretty much everything,
where all the advanced tech came from, for starters. How Cawl was able to improve space marines for a second.
The other option is to accept it as being true until someone can prove otherwise.
yacov
Lurking and sometimes blurting
- Location
- Clogging a drain
Tide, you talked the auditory processors off Eoa for several months!? I get you can compress space and time within your domain but jeez. You could wear down an Eldar with that kind of persistence.
Mechanized Keeper of Secrets: "I will cause untold havoc, suffering, and agony, then Slaanesh will reward me with sensations and feelings unknown!"
Tide: "Yo Eoa want a new body? I can give you the ability to experience sensations and feelings unknown if you want."
Huh, Tide now has the knowledge and ability to seamlessly meld the processing, sensations, and feelings of an AI with an organic body. Wonder if Tide can do the reverse?
A very large portion of the Mechanicus: "Yes. Yes. Yes! YES! YESYESYESYESYESYESYES!" Oily foam starts forming where their mouths used to be
And just like that an AI tortured for millennia shows more mental and emotional maturity than most Tech Priests
16 characters
Sick and tired of being Sick and Tired
- Location
- Alta California
- Pronouns
- They/Them
I thought high end Deldar cloning tech was really good though, like the sort of thing that could resurrect an Incubus from a pinky finger complete with memories and everything?