The Arachne System (SPIDERLIV 3)
- Thread starter open_sketch
- Start date
- Superhero
[X] Contact Loki. You have their phone number. Maybe they can help. Not sure how, you have no idea what they'll do, but if anyone can solve this...
Illusions
- Location
- Ottawa
- Pronouns
- She/Her/Whatever
- in person. Hello."
You're sitting in a comfortable, oversized, overstuffed chair of some description, in a finely-decorated and incredibly alien room. Things are made of marble and wood polished so fine its almost mirror-like, instruments of brass and gold all around on the desks and shelves, and the books. The place is overflowing with books, some new, some old, some very old, and you don't even come close to recognizing all of them. Despite that, it was cozy, comfortable, a roaring fireplace giving everything a warm orange glow.
A small set of DVDs, VHS tapes, and vinyl figures occupies a portion of one shelf.
Behind a desk covered in papers, books, and devices beyond your comprehension is Loki, neither man nor woman at the moment as best you can tell, seeming somehow smaller and less imposing than usual, like their guard was down, the glamour faded. That lasted only a moment; as they sat up in their chair, they became very much a she, the presence back, the grace, the smirk.
It takes you a second, then, to recognize that you are here, in a body, one that feels like Liv's. You stared at your hands in disbelief... one organic, normal, the other seemingly carved from what you can only describe as living wood. You're wearing a dress, too, blue and brown and white, in a style you don't recognize from anywhere.
"Just a little conjuring trick, dear." she says, smiling. "So. Let's talk."
You nodded stiffly, the shock of the sudden change in location giving way again to despair. Deeper and more real this time, your eyes watering, a hot tear running down your cheek.
"Liv... Liv told her girlfriend about... about Arachne, about her powers, about everything. And I tried to stay calm and be supportive and get through it and I almost did, bu-but then she... she invited her to... to help. With Arachne. With everything. With-"
You couldn't think of any more to say, the sound just sort of dying out.
"Oh... I see." Loki said. "You're scared that this represents an unmanageable and continuous security breach, not just her identity but her continued activities in specifics, right?"
"Y-yes. And, and it... if May is doing things she might get caught, she doesn't have the ability to manipulate recording devices or purge logs, she just has to say the wrong thing or take the wrong path or being in the wrong photo and... and they'll come for Liv. They'll come for her with guns and drones and they'll k-kill her. They've already tried once and that was... that was incidental, almost an accident, and they still almost did. They'll kill her. They will. I can't stop it. I can't help."
"... remembering I'm not reading your mind... is there perhaps an aspect of jealousy here too, of being replace-"
"No!" you shout, the loudest sound you think you've ever made audibly. "No, no, I'm just scared. I want her to be happy and safe and to be Arachne and she can't. She can't do all three."
"Not all the time, sure." Loki said. She leaned back, crossing her legs as she settled into her chair, a goblet of some kind in her hand. She didn't make it appear, but she didn't pick it up either, it was sort of like she was always holding it even though she wasn't. "Drink, this'll help you calm down, alright?"
There was a mug in your hand, the real one. You raised it mechanically to your lips and the hot liquid inside felt instantly soothing, the tension draining out of you, and you set it down lightly. You watched as the level of the liquid simply raised again in the glass, filled from some unknown source.
"How do you do that? I thought creating matter was supposed to be r-really hard, from the book-" you started, and she waved her hand dismissively.
"How much of any of this do you think is real?" she asked, "An illusion is a comprehensive thing, you know, it doesn't end at sight or sound or even touch. Remember, the world around you isn't really the way you see it, none of it is, all the information you mortals get is second hand, trapped within the small equations that make up the world. Fourth hand really... sight is light, then reception, then processing, then awareness, none of it is the real shape of reality. An illusion can interject at any of those points. Or all of them."
"O-of course." you said, a bit overwhelmed.
"I'll give the game away, none of this is real. I didn't physically take you anywhere, all of this is happening inside your cute little processors. This room doesn't exist anywhere, nor does your body, nor the tea, and I don't look like this on my side of the rainbow bridge. It's something we affect, if you understand."
The fear you had for Liv was, somehow, giving way to a more general terror. Just who the hell were you asking for help, really?
"I... I..." you started, and she shook her head sadly.
"Look, I understand your fear, really, I do. And... I do want to help, but my options are limited. Magic is powerful, especially wielded from this realm through a willing conduit like yourself, but it is not... always elegant, if you will. For instance, I could rip the memories out of May's head, and Liv's, and implant the suggestion that they should part and never again speak, as easy as breathing." she said simply, swirling a finger above her cup, trailing motes of something which was hard to look at. "Well, as easy as breathing is for her, considering neither of us need it. Or I could probably lay a curse on May which would kill her if she were to betray the secret, the instant before. Would you like that?"
"N-no." you said.
"I figured not. A few centuries ago, I think I would have just sprung one of those on you, but I am learning. Getting better, every day..." she said, sighing. "I had something of a perspective shift, made me value mortal life a lot more. It was very easy to see you as... toys, to be played with and discarded, you understand? Or to pity you, oh, the poor mortals, so powerless and short-lived. It was so... condescending. At best, paternalistic."
"What changed?" you asked, too nervous to meet her eyes. You settled on staring at the very interesting looking sword laying across Loki's desk.
"I met my wife." she said simply, "Oh, like the sword? It'll rend your soul if you touch it, so... don't."
"... souls are real?" you asked, your lowest possible priority right now.
"In a manner of speaking. No spoilers." she said, a finger to her lips. "Now... I'm going to offer to you what I think is the least-disruptive, most useful thing I can do, with the knowledge it may still be too much. You can refuse, and I won't hold it against you, I promise. But it's all I can offer. I can't really do less and I don't wish to do more, you understand?"
"I do." you said, nodding.
"What I can do is safeguard Olivia's identity as Arachne from anyone else learning of it. Everyone who already knows will continue to know, but nobody else ever will. I can make this utterly foolproof. She could pull her mask off in front of a bank of cameras and some extraordinary event would prevent her from being identified. She would have no idea it was happening."
"I'll-"
"Wait, I'm not finished. This effect will be absolute. If she wants to tell any person, anyone, she can't. Either something will get in the way, or she will think better of it, because her mind and perception will be manipulated by the spell. If you want to tell anyone, if you need to tell somebody, you won't be able to. May won't be able to. I won't be able to. Nobody. Ever." Loki said, voice utterly serious. "I need you to understand that."
"C-can it be undone, if we do it?" you asked, and she looked at you with such utter pity.
"Any spell can be dispelled, any curse lifted, and spell broken, though it always costs more than what you put in. Further, I'll warn you that dispelling illusions always involves revealing the truth." she explained, her voice softening. "But it cannot be undone. Athena... nothing can ever be undone. It's the one cruel, unchangeable, universal rule of our collective realities... you can't take it back."
"... okay." you said, "I want to talk to h-"
"She can't know. It won't work if she does." Loki said sadly. "You have to make this choice. I know it's hard, but remember: she made you to keep her safe, and she trusts you."
---
[ ] Do it.
[ ] Don't.
Don't do it
- Pronouns
- He/Him
AHHHHHHHHHHHH
*jumps out the window*
I CAN'T CHOOSE
*jumps out the window*
I CAN'T CHOOSE
prometheus110
Join Cayman-Global & be part of the 1E-9 percent!
- Location
- La Ballena City Raft
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[x] Don't.
It's obviously a morally reprehensible thing to do and also won't solve the fundamental issue that being Arachne is inherently dangerous regardless of who does or doesn't know about it. Presumably, the only way to take this back (if it even exists) is to tell Liv about it and I assume Athena doesn't want to die.
It's obviously a morally reprehensible thing to do and also won't solve the fundamental issue that being Arachne is inherently dangerous regardless of who does or doesn't know about it. Presumably, the only way to take this back (if it even exists) is to tell Liv about it and I assume Athena doesn't want to die.
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[x] Don't.
Not only is this a massive consent issue, but also has the chance of causing worse problems than being found out would.
Not only is this a massive consent issue, but also has the chance of causing worse problems than being found out would.
Rockeye
Plausible Engineer
- Location
- Midwestern U.S.
...Liv would haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaate it. And it doesn't really... Solve the problem. I mean, just look at what- If she wants to tell her mom some day, or something. It keeps her safe from getting maybe doxxed, perhaps, but opens up new vulnerabilities - emotional ones, trust breaches.
Something something 'do not become that which you are trying to defeat'.
But how will she deal with asking for help and then deciding the cost is too great. I don't know.
Need to have a chat with Liv, maybe. AI-chan needs a *vacation*.
[x] Don't.
Something something 'do not become that which you are trying to defeat'.
But how will she deal with asking for help and then deciding the cost is too great. I don't know.
Need to have a chat with Liv, maybe. AI-chan needs a *vacation*.
[x] Don't.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
That's how I'm approaching it at the moment -- Liv didn't just make Athena to keep her safe, Athena's also meant to keep her sane. The original idea seems to have been for her to be Liv's conscience, the "you can't just let the irritating person die, Liv, that'd make you a bad person" voice. And she can't very well stop Liv from becoming a supervillain by beating her to the punch.
[X] Don't.
I'll be very interested to see how Athena tries to reconcile these impulses, if she'll try to talk with Liv, or continue to talk with Loki, or to get all three of them in the 'room'. Which. ohmygod i am so glad we went with Loki, i love everything about this.
- Location
- Earth
[X] Don't.
Alobomb
Time Traveler
- Location
- Canada
[X] Don't.
On the one hand, it's definitely an extremely messed up thing to do, Athena might be shielded from the interpersonal consequences of the spell by virtue of even Liv being unable to recognize its existence, but that doesn't make it any less potentially dangerous and also agency stealing on Athena's part. Though it could be argued that that would be fair turnabout from how Liv didn't consult Athena about revealing her identity to May, and the sorta betrayal implicit in that.
On the other hand, I can extremely see this being something Athena would be desperately tempted to do in this scenario, she's clearly having a very Bad Time of it right now. She's always been sorta looking out for Liv in the background, doing the minutiae like video scrubbing that she does because she can and she wants to and she's good at it. This is an offer that clearly Loki is specifically making to her, it's a way that she can protect Liv that- as usual- Liv cannot (or in Athena's eyes, perhaps shouldn't have to, or even wouldn't) do herself.
From an outside perspective, I have an extremely "Oh wow, don't do that" kinda reaction, but it's so easy to see how Athena would be tempted. She might even be more mad at herself for not taking it in the short term than she would be for taking it, but it feels like a real monkey's paw scenario, even if Loki doesn't intend it to be. (Though she still might, as like, a lesson, or something. Though that'd be sorta cruel.)
On the one hand, it's definitely an extremely messed up thing to do, Athena might be shielded from the interpersonal consequences of the spell by virtue of even Liv being unable to recognize its existence, but that doesn't make it any less potentially dangerous and also agency stealing on Athena's part. Though it could be argued that that would be fair turnabout from how Liv didn't consult Athena about revealing her identity to May, and the sorta betrayal implicit in that.
On the other hand, I can extremely see this being something Athena would be desperately tempted to do in this scenario, she's clearly having a very Bad Time of it right now. She's always been sorta looking out for Liv in the background, doing the minutiae like video scrubbing that she does because she can and she wants to and she's good at it. This is an offer that clearly Loki is specifically making to her, it's a way that she can protect Liv that- as usual- Liv cannot (or in Athena's eyes, perhaps shouldn't have to, or even wouldn't) do herself.
From an outside perspective, I have an extremely "Oh wow, don't do that" kinda reaction, but it's so easy to see how Athena would be tempted. She might even be more mad at herself for not taking it in the short term than she would be for taking it, but it feels like a real monkey's paw scenario, even if Loki doesn't intend it to be. (Though she still might, as like, a lesson, or something. Though that'd be sorta cruel.)
- Location
- Someone else's head
[x] Don't.
That's a doozy. Damn good writing, though.
I'm voting no because this is a blunt instrument that takes away too much agency, and it isn't a thing that it's fair to unknowingly and without consent spring on another person. It would be a seriously interesting bit of story, but one I'd still rather dodge, all else being equal.
That's a doozy. Damn good writing, though.
I'm voting no because this is a blunt instrument that takes away too much agency, and it isn't a thing that it's fair to unknowingly and without consent spring on another person. It would be a seriously interesting bit of story, but one I'd still rather dodge, all else being equal.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
...Oh, Loki is Brilliant.
Giving Athena this option is an incredible way to force her to confront her feelings on Liv's personal agency vs her security, and because I don't believe she'd take this deal, overcome them. I genuinely believe Loki offered this deal with the intent that Athena would refuse (very fitting for a trickster god therapist, I think), and I think that makes for a really interesting character path for athena.
[X] Don't
Also, too much of who they are as a system is tied up in Arachne. What if this means she can't tell people that athena is an AI or something, or even that she has a headmate at all?
Giving Athena this option is an incredible way to force her to confront her feelings on Liv's personal agency vs her security, and because I don't believe she'd take this deal, overcome them. I genuinely believe Loki offered this deal with the intent that Athena would refuse (very fitting for a trickster god therapist, I think), and I think that makes for a really interesting character path for athena.
[X] Don't
Also, too much of who they are as a system is tied up in Arachne. What if this means she can't tell people that athena is an AI or something, or even that she has a headmate at all?
- Location
- New York
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] Don't.
This is too extreme, and also Loki is very possibly trying to impart a lesson as hinted by reference to their own character development.
This is too extreme, and also Loki is very possibly trying to impart a lesson as hinted by reference to their own character development.
- Location
- Just passing through.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[x] Don't.
Part of me wonders if because Liv made Athena partly to protect her, Athena can't help to always be imagining worse case scenarios in order to create countermeasures. And of course that can't be healthy.
Part of me wonders if because Liv made Athena partly to protect her, Athena can't help to always be imagining worse case scenarios in order to create countermeasures. And of course that can't be healthy.
bobbananaville
A giant crab, atop an even gianter crab
- Location
- The Philippines
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Huh. I actually don't know what to vote.
I mean, morally, and in terms of what would provide what I believe are the best consequences, "don't" is the obvious best option. Doing it messes with Olivia's head, takes away choice without her consent, makes it so if there was a scenario where Olivia revealing her identity was actually the best course of action it isn't an option, could cause dangerous situations if Olivia becomes determined to reveal her identity for some reason (She's determined to reveal her identity to her mom, so obviously fate must make an earthquake happen right before Olivia can, which kills her, or something makes Olivia comatose so she can't say her identity), manipulating people to make decisions they otherwise wouldn't make for Olivia's convenience/safety just seems like a really evil thing to do in general.
Also I do want Olivia to eventually be honest with her mom.
But I think it's the decision Athena would take, in her current headspace. And while it's obviously a terrible decision, I also really want to read the story where Athena makes that terrible decision. Feels like a really interesting source of conflict and drama.
I guess I'm torn between voting for Olivia's well-being, and voting for interesting drama.
I mean, morally, and in terms of what would provide what I believe are the best consequences, "don't" is the obvious best option. Doing it messes with Olivia's head, takes away choice without her consent, makes it so if there was a scenario where Olivia revealing her identity was actually the best course of action it isn't an option, could cause dangerous situations if Olivia becomes determined to reveal her identity for some reason (She's determined to reveal her identity to her mom, so obviously fate must make an earthquake happen right before Olivia can, which kills her, or something makes Olivia comatose so she can't say her identity), manipulating people to make decisions they otherwise wouldn't make for Olivia's convenience/safety just seems like a really evil thing to do in general.
Also I do want Olivia to eventually be honest with her mom.
But I think it's the decision Athena would take, in her current headspace. And while it's obviously a terrible decision, I also really want to read the story where Athena makes that terrible decision. Feels like a really interesting source of conflict and drama.
I guess I'm torn between voting for Olivia's well-being, and voting for interesting drama.
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Chlof
Her Ladyship
- Pronouns
- She/Her
ThatGazzer
Minds Eye Bind
- Location
- PNW
- Pronouns
- They/Them
[X] Don't.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
I mean, it's a monkey's paw, but Loki's not being all like "Aha, I'm going to screw you over by letting you wish for something and then something terrible happens!"
They're being all like "OK look, I actively want to help you, and my magic lets me be ridiculously effective at helping you, but Deep Magic on this level is inherently a monkey's paw thing and you may end up regretting it badly." And then they spend more time explaining the potential adverse consequences of the spell than they do explaining the spell itself.
That's the classy way to offer someone a monkey's paw when they are really, really hard up for wishes and you feel honor bound to at least suggest it.
I agree that given the context, Loki intends for Athena to refuse and make her examine what she really wants. But as Loki, would be totally willing to follow through if she confirmed that that is, in fact, what she wants.
But I don't think that's what she really wants. And she needs to realize that.
[X] Don't.
But I don't think that's what she really wants. And she needs to realize that.
[X] Don't.
HoratioVonBecker
Imperfectly Aligned
And of course, I'm here rejecting false dichotomies.
[X] That would solve a lot, actually, but... can it wait until she's told Mom? And maybe I've told Walker?
My guess is that it's probably 'yes' and 'no', respectively - something like "Athena needs to be the secret keeper for this to work, and her having revealed it once would compromise that" - but that's a role, and a sacrifice, I think she'd be okay with.
But this isn't something she should tell May and not Mom about. That's just a recipie for tragedy.
[X] That would solve a lot, actually, but... can it wait until she's told Mom? And maybe I've told Walker?
My guess is that it's probably 'yes' and 'no', respectively - something like "Athena needs to be the secret keeper for this to work, and her having revealed it once would compromise that" - but that's a role, and a sacrifice, I think she'd be okay with.
But this isn't something she should tell May and not Mom about. That's just a recipie for tragedy.