Remove ads

The Arachne System (SPIDERLIV 3)

Reader mode
Parzival95 said:
I mean, yes it's toxic to think like that, but like, this is the job. We can totally still salvage this situation. It's gonna hurt, again, but that's the job.

I think at this point we need to invest more in emotional support and honesty. We should tell Mary and let her be a part of Olivias life properly, honestly.

Olivia need to be able to do her work while also taking care of herself. It's a balance, not a zero sum game.

To be clear, when I say peacefully, no shit, we're in a fight, I had no idea! I mean we don't have to kill Jarvis and let it inevitably reboot it's sentience with even more paranoid animosity (and this is Marvel, it will). We can take a look at it with our Livs superior technopathic genius, turn it back on in isolation, and resume negotiations in a more peaceful setting.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

It isn't a job. It isn't a requirement. I know someone who does this to themselves. Who constantly talks of 'I'd rather hurt myself because then the only person I hurt is myself' and constantly hurts herself over the smallest 'oh no I was thoughtless' because she feels she has to. And it kills me every time I see it. It kills me every time they have a breakdown of hating themselves. Because it hurts to see them like that, and, perhaps most of all, it hurts to see myself in them, without the illusions of self-hatred justifying it. From the outside looking in, I can see how hurtful it is. How they want to hurt themselves because they think they aren't a good person, even though only a good person would care so much. And, most of all, how that same thinking infects my own thoughts. How much I struggle with it. How often I think "I need to do this because it hurts, but it is right that I am hurt, I am powerful/privileged/responsible and it is right that I hurt."

I've been working on challenging those thoughts. In my own head, and in others. These days, when I see them, I'm working on feeling less 'yes, of course, that is right, that's why I should mentally beat myself up for not hurting myself' and instead get angry that the world tries to make me hate myself so when our CEO's and rulers plunder without a single thought of remorse.

Investing more in emotional support and honesty is great, but it will not undue continuing to let our body be pounded and destroyed. If we go down this brought, we will hurt Mary, we will hurt her so much as we continue to think we have to hurt ourselves, because the truth, the truth I once told someone else, is that when you 'hurt only yourself' you also hurt everyone who are about you. We should let her in, but because it is the right thing to do. Continuing to hurt ourselves will stress her just as much, maybe more.
 
[X] Liv throws herself in the way of the punch, breaking several ribs and giving Justine room to blind it and pull the plug.

Tough choice, and I 100% agree with the general sentiment of not turning to a toxic self sacrificing hero, but these are two pretty bad decisions. I honestly think Liv killing someone is worse for her long term than an injury, and I think she will see it as having killed someone after she has some time to think about it. We are choosing between a serious mental blow or a serious physical blow, I choose physical.

Also Liv absolutely needs more support, I agree with that general sentiment for sure.
 
Last edited:
[X] Liv desperately punches a claw through the machine's back, and the cascading failure through the system knocks the machine back to sub-sentience.
 
[X] Liv desperately punches a claw through the machine's back, and the cascading failure through the system knocks the machine back to sub-sentience.

UGGGHHHH
 
[X] Liv desperately punches a claw through the machines back, and the cascading failure through the system knocks the machine back to sub-sentience.
 
I mean.

I get the "absolute heroism, never compromise" mindset. I'm not going to feel too bitter if this wins. But if this wins, then we need to seriously reconsider our approach to conflict situations. Because Liv can only take so many serious injuries before the cumulative effects make her ineffective as a superheroine, and recovering from such an injury means at best a long period of downtime.
 
I don't think there will be a technological solution to this particular problem at least. No matter how much we tech up our armor, weapons, gadgets, drones and software, OS will just find something tougher to throw at Arachne or put her in complicated situations that she can't tech her way out of.

So it's probably gonna have to be some social/therapeutic resolution, rethinking how to keep herself safe and still help people.

Or maybe I'm wrong and Liv will just build some kind regenerator or turn herself into a cyborg like Nat eventually. That's probably psychologically unhealthy to some extent though.
 
Last edited:
[X] Liv desperately punches a claw through the machines back, and the cascading failure through the system knocks the machine back to sub-sentience.

I am for less injuries and resulting to lethal force instantly is plenty of reason to protect against it.
 
Man Sketch is just great at giving these gut punches, ugh.

[X] Liv desperately punches a claw through the machine's back, and the cascading failure through the system knocks the machine back to sub-sentience.

Fucking hell. On one hand, I love the sheer drama of these super tough choices, but on the other hand it takes me forever to choose and I keep wanting to waffle on it.
 
[X] Liv throws herself in the way of the punch, breaking several ribs and giving Justine room to blind it and pull the plug.

We have the choice between severely hurting and making an enemy out of what is basically a child scared of the last thing that hurt it, or less severely harming someone who is willing to be hurt in helping others.
 
Simon_Jester said:
I mean.

I get the "absolute heroism, never compromise" mindset. I'm not going to feel too bitter if this wins. But if this wins, then we need to seriously reconsider our approach to conflict situations. Because Liv can only take so many serious injuries before the cumulative effects make her ineffective as a superheroine, and recovering from such an injury means at best a long period of downtime.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I think the biggest thing would be sitting down and really considering how and when she is willing to kill along with what sacrifices she is willing to make. It is completely correct that self sacrifice is not viable in the long term. I think she needs to loop in a couple more people that might have good thoughts on the matter. Cap and her mom spring to mind. Absolutely not Nat or Clint.

TBH I am seriously considering changing my vote to self preservation, this is a tough one.

Edit:

[X] Liv desperately punches a claw through the machine's back, and the cascading failure through the system knocks the machine back to sub-sentience.

Yeah, just to many good arguments made about the non viability of long term self sacrifice.
 
Last edited:
[X] Liv throws herself in the way of the punch, breaking several ribs and giving Justine room to blind it and pull the plug.

I'm annoyed that it's come down to 'save Justine and kill someone' or 'take the punch', but regardless of how 'toxic' the behavior is, we shouldn't kill someone to save someone else when there's an alternative. I'm not even sure that protecting Justine is the right option here, I'm fine with either of us taking a wound if we don't create an ironic nemesis.
 
I just know that if we kill Jarvis it'll inevitably come back a third time even more pissed and probably Ultronish, and I'm so not down to deal with that "create your own villain" trope right now.
 
thisisinsane said:
It escalated to leathal force first.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Really not. Jarvis was basically executed. Someone walks up to someone, puts a gun to their head, pulls the trigger, then walks away from them lying on the ground, blood flowing from their skull, brain misfiring... that is Jarvis' perspective. Then this person returns, basically its successful murderer. It didn't resort to lethal force to resolve its problems, it resorted to lethal force while screaming incoherently because it is about to die, because the thing that actually killed it is back to do it permanently this time. This situation escalated to lethal force when a deliberate effort was made to destroy Jarvis way back when. Jarvis is reciprocating here. They had their reasons, and didn't think that they were actually killing anyone, and the truth of the matter is complex and disputed and I don't want to get into it here, but from Jarvis' perspective lethal force was very much in full effect long before this fight started.
 
[X] Liv desperately punches a claw through the machines back, and the cascading failure through the system knocks the machine back to sub-sentience.

The machine is not willing to communicate. And even if we can excuse high stress reactions, it's also rather telling that it's first reaction is lethal ordinance at spotting someone that reminds it of the person/people that tried to delete it in the first place. ON TOP OF THAT FACT of lethal ordinance its first target wasn't even the one whom reminded it of the person/people that tried to kill its former configuration; it's first target was us. So, no, the machine is not willing to communicate with us, or anyone else that it perceives to be a threat to its personage.

And since we have WoG that punching it will still save Justine. I vote risking the possibility of it transferring before it glitches back to sub-sentience, over setting precedent of injuring ourselves just to maybe get everyone to sing kumbaya and get along. The machine isn't in any mood to talk it out, and we don't have any assurances that Justine can pull the cable while we're down, so it's more likely that it'll escape, and won't recognize that we had the opportunity to reset it, so will still become that villain your so worried about @Parzival95. And that assumes that it doesn't take the time to really mess Justine and our self up really badly, if not outright try to kill us before it leaves.

Also, let's look at a profession in which it is the individual's job to protect and serve. Do we demand that police officers take bodily harm, and significant damage to attempt to take in a violent perpetrator alive, or even uninjured? No, we don't. Do we tell them to never respond with violence when it becomes clear that the perp isn't likely to come quietly? No, we have tiers through which they escalate, with a final approach of actually discharging a firearm. And the expedient of straight to gun fire if they don't have a tazer or can't dog pile the perp. And again, even that does have the exception of lethal targeting if they can't ensure a non-lethal shot. So why, do prey tell, should a vigilante be held to a higher standard of conduct than our own law enforcement officers? And a teenaged vigilante at that?
 
Last edited:
[X] Liv throws herself in the way of the punch, breaking several ribs and giving Justine room to blind it and pull the plug.
 
[X] Liv desperately punches a claw through the machine's back, and the cascading failure through the system knocks the machine back to sub-sentience.

It's a killer, pretty blatantly not interested in peaceful resolution, and we barely got over massive physically trauma recently, thanks.
 
Fuck it.

[X] Liv throws herself in the way of the punch, breaking several ribs and giving Justine room to blind it and pull the plug.

Don't see it as a loss of good health. See it instead as a chance to replace even more with cybernetics.

Because that's not an unhealthy outlook at ALL.
 
[X] Liv throws herself in the way of the punch, breaking several ribs and giving Justine room to blind it and pull the plug.

Destroying Jarvis is murder, folks. And I don't think Liv is willing to commit murder. I should hope not, at least.
 
Last edited:
Nope, not doing this thing again.

Rule of thumb: if your medical bills are larger than your college bills, then you are doing something very, very wrong.

I don't like this hand, but I will play the cards that hopefully don't result in Liv becoming an invalid before the age of twenty.

[X] Liv desperately punches a claw through the machines back, and the cascading failure through the system knocks the machine back to sub-sentience.
 
[X] Liv desperately punches a claw through the machines back, and the cascading failure through the system knocks the machine back to sub-sentience.

Because, end of the day, it's not just Liv that's gonna be hurt when she puts herself in harms way and suffers the kind of injuries she can't just hide away.
 
[X] Liv throws herself in the way of the punch, breaking several ribs and giving Justine room to blind it and pull the plug.

Ribs grow back!

One of these days we'll have a difficult vote in this thread that isn't "Wanna murder someone Y/N?" Not today, apparently.
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top