Suffer Not ≡][≡ 40k Inquisition Quest

open_sketch · Nov 19, 2019

≡][≡ Inquisitor Joanyn Praxis ≡][≡
Imperial Inquisitor, Ordo Hereticus

Attributes
Physical Attributes
Strength - 1
Agility - 2
Melee - 1
Endurance: 4

Mental Attributes
Intelligence - 3
Tactics - 2
Nerve - 1
Fortitude: 6

Social Attributes
Charm - 4
Presence - 3
Contacts - 3
Resolve: 10

Faith Attributes
Belief - 2
Scripture - 0
Fire - 1
Conviction: 3

(3) - The Imperium should be an alliance of solidarity for the weak, not an alliance of strength for the strong.
(2) - People are more than problems, weaknesses, corruption vectors to eradicate. Their feelings and dreams matter.
(1) - A Shot Fired is a Shot Wasted

<1> - Victory makes me feel alive.

Strength is raw physical conditioning. Lifting stuff, swimming, running a long time, punching hard. It's added to many melee attack damage as well.

Agility is swiftness, reaction speed, and immediate awareness. It's used for dodging things, jumping, ducking, outrunning folks, and other twitchy reactions.

Melee is the general skill of up close combat with knives, swords, fists (power or otherwise), chainsaws, whatever else.

Intelligence is raw intellectual power, knowledge, and drive to learn and study stuff. It is also used for military logistics.

Tactics is your knowledge of battle tactics, from the strategy of leading armies to simply knowing when it is safe to rush across a hallway in a gunfight.

Nerve is the stat both for shooting firearms and for keeping your cool. Nerve checks are common in combat to prevent from panicking or fight through pain.

Charm is the social stat used for flattery, smoothtalking, lying, seduction, verbal sparring, deflection, and navigating high culture.

Presence is the social stat used for reasoning, explaining, teaching, intimidating, impressing, or public address.

Contacts is rolled to know people you need to know, and to have a good reputation with them.

Belief is your actual faith in... whatever you have faith in. The Emperor, hopefully. It is used to resist temptation and corruption.

Scripture is your knowledge of the intellectual side of your religious faith. If you can quote from the holy books and theologians. It's intelligence for matters of faith.

Fire is your ability to project your faith out and convince others of it. Want to convert somebody or whip a crowd into a fanatical fury? This stat.

Weapon: Laspistol
Weapon: Hellpistol
Trade: Manager
Trade: Spy
Trade: Political Operator
Talent: Verbal Sparring
Talent: Seduction
Talent: Dishonesty
Talent: Intimidation
Talent: Exfiltration
Talent: Logistics
Talent: Propaganda
Talent: Indirect Persuasion
People: Dahlia
People: The Corrupted
People: High Imperial Politicians
Knowledge: Imperial Political Theory

Social Loadout
1 Compact Laspistol, 1 Laspistol Reload, Flash-Safe Glasses, 6 Concealed monoknives, 1 Show Knife, 1 Belt Buckle Gun, 1 Plastex Bodyglove/Flakweave Suit, Displacer Field

Combat Options
+1 Hellpistol, +1 Transonic Machete

Compact Laspistol
Small Handgun
Attack Dice: 1/d10 -or- 2/d10-1
Aim Bonus: +1
Damage Bonus: +2
Armour Reduction: 0
Magazine Size: 4
Special
Laser: Does not cause bleeding.
Blinding: If operated without flash protection, witnessing the impact of a las-weapon will blind for 3 rounds.

Concealed Monoknife
Small Knife
Attack Dice : 1/d10
Damage Bonus : Agility + 1
Armour Penetration : 2
Parry Bonus : -1
Disarm Bonus : +0

Show Knife
Medium Knife
Attack Dice : 1/d10+1
Damage Bonus : Agility + 1
Armour Penetration : 0
Parry Bonus : +0
Disarm Bonus : +0

Buckle Gun
Tiny Handgun
Attack Dice: 2/d10-2
Aim Bonus: +0
Damage Bonus: -2
Armour Reduction: 0
Magazine Size: 1
Special
Hidden: Will always escape searches.

Plastex Bodyglove/Flakweave Suit
Clothing
Armour Value : 3
Coverage : All but Head and Eyes
Resistances : Impact, Blunt

Displacer Field
Energy Screen
When hit with an attack, roll 1d10.
1: Displaced into worse danger.
2: Displacer field fails. Take the hit.
3-6: Displaced hard. Take 1 Sore from bumping into something.
7-9: Displaced. Attack avoided.
10: Nothing personal, kid.

Hellpistol (Voss Pattern)
Medium Handgun/Carbine
Attack Dice: 1/d10 -or- 2/d10-1 (One-Handed)
Aim Bonus: +1
Damage Bonus: +3
Armour Reduction: 2
Magazine Size: 12
Special
Laser: Does not cause bleeding.
Blinding: If operated without flash protection, witnessing the impact of a las-weapon will blind for 3 rounds.
Convertible: When converted to Carbine mode, gain +1 to Attack and Aim Bonus.

Transonic Machete
Medium Knife
Attack Dice : 1/d10+2
Damage Bonus : Strength + 3
Armour Penetration : 1 + Half of enemy Armour (Round Down)
Parry Bonus : +0
Disarm Bonus : +3
Special
Sickening Vibrations: Enemies with 3 meters of an active blade count as being at -1 to all stats.

Sister Charitina
A member of the Order Famulous who found her faith again thanks to the Inquisitor. Praxis' closest confidant, dearest friend, and irritating ex-girlfriend.
Attributes of Note: Nerve 3, Contacts 4, Charm 3, Scripture 2, Fire 2
Skills of Note: Career - Order Famulous, Weapon - Bolt Carbine, People - Inquisitor Praxis
Equipment: Half-Plate Power Armour, Bolt Carbine, Burning Blade
Known Values: (3) The nobility is a blight on the Imperium, (2) I trust the Inquisitor's vision for the future, (1) Galaxy grim and dark, tiddy soft and warm.

Dahlia Hussian
A 17 year old unsanctioned psyker, rescued by Praxis from the witch's pyre she volunteered for at age 12. Loves the Emperor, and hates herself for being unworthy and twisted.
Attributes of Note: Power 1, Control 2, Sight 2, Faith 5, Strength -1, Nerve 0
Skills of Note: Talent - Self Discipline, Talent - Self-Hatred
Equipment: Web Derringer
Known Values: [3] I am here because I was given a chance. I should extend the same chance to others, [2] The Emperor is all things, [1] I can atone for my existence by aiding the Inquisitor

Marvel Ann Alemanga-Zero
A Magos of the biology wing of the Adeptus Mechanicus, Marvel Ann is an exuberant, odd, and enthusiastic cyborg lady who is an expert in medicine and bionics. She's Joanyn's current sweetheart, and she autotunes her voice.
Attributes of Note: Intelligence 4, Charm 3, Strength 4
Skills of Note: Career - Cyberdoc, Talent - Surgery, Talent - Singing
Known Values: [2] Adventure is to be seized with both hands (and as many mechandrites as possible)

Fraser Bookter
A positively ancient scribe who served Praxis' teacher, Bookter has seen all manner of things. Despite that, he keeps good humour.
Attributes of Note: Intelligence 4, Scripture 2, Contacts 2, Strength -2
Skills of Note: Career - Archivist, Knowledge - Imperial History
Known Values: ???

Korey Kilimnik
Once a Lightning fighter pilot for the Navy, until he was caught fucking an admiral's son. Kilimnik professionally doesn't care unless it has jet engines.
Attributes of Note: Nerve 5, Agility 3
Skills of Note: Career - Fighter Pilot, Talent - Piloting, Talent - Causing Trouble
Known Values: [2] By death or rejuvenation, age will never slow my reflexes

Penalties

≡][≡	Sore	Strain	Stress	Stain	≡][≡
◹☠◸	0/4	0/6	0/10	0/3	◹☠◸
◹⛉◸	3 XP	XP3	33 XP	9 XP	◹⛉◸

CURRENT RP
6

RULES SUMMARY
ROLZ ROOM

Jeboboid · Feb 16, 2020

[X] If they're scared, maybe you can talk to them and convince one to submit for a blood test.
-[X] These are scared people. If things are feeling bad for them and they don't think they're infected, they need stability. Be the authority figure, the manager, that they can trust. Try to rely on your position and theirs to keep them from panicking. Everything is going to be okay (unless it isn't) proper authority is here... and it's remarkably nice.

Balaur · Feb 16, 2020

[X] If they're scared, maybe you can talk to them and convince one to submit for a blood test.
-[X] These are scared people. If things are feeling bad for them and they don't think they're infected, they need stability. Be the authority figure, the manager, that they can trust. Try to rely on your position and theirs to keep them from panicking. Everything is going to be okay (unless it isn't) proper authority is here... and it's remarkably nice.

DocMatoi · Feb 16, 2020

I guess the vibe we're going for here is "Those who are not a threat to the lives of the entire imperium have nothing to fear from me."

Nyvis · Feb 16, 2020

We have to rescue them. Testing them means we won't have to watch for a surprise from them, but I don't think the first stages of infection would turn them dangerous? So it may be worth it to just take them with us and test them later.

[X] We need to get them out now, and we can investigate them on the ship and put them down if we have to.

EternalStruggle · Feb 16, 2020

baud said:
Though that picture is a Battle Barge, our current ship is a strike cruiser, which has a fixed weapon on the front, which could be the bombardment canon.

I know I pointed out what stuff meant on the other art but I have no clue what I'm looking at here. There's an underslung weapon and a turret, and...

I think, I believe, that that isn't a "standard" model Strike Cruiser any more than our current one, and those are both bombardment cannons, one fixed and one turret. That, or it's a non-BFG rules modifications entirely and the underslung gun is a Lance.

Either way it has no Launch Bays.

The Laurent · Feb 16, 2020

Just to clarify, PTSD isn't a sign of weakness. In fact, a more notable sign of weakness is thinking that PTSD is a sign of weakness.

Not sure what to do with the vote, honestly?

Aliya · Feb 16, 2020

Finished binging the story. Not sure on what to vote for, bit excited for the future events nonetheless!

ancusohm · Feb 16, 2020

Huh, the space battle took a full eight hours. I guess this fic is going for a slower (probably more realistic, for 40k) depiction of space combat. I'm basing this impression mostly off of some videos I've seen of Battlefleet Gothic gameplay (the videogame not the tabletop) that made it seem pretty fast-paced.

Also, Demirel recognizes and approves of Praxis and Marvel Ann's relationship. That has all kinds of interesting implications. I kinda expected them to fail to pick up on any kind of romantic or sexual interest, especially among women.

Come to think of it, these Space Marines are remarkably comfortable with women. I mean, they're recruited at around the age of 10-14, right? Then they're whisked off to an all-male organization with all-male serfs (except presumably for a few trans women and/or enbies who are probably forced to be closeted). Basically everyone they interact with in any real way are men. Sure, their commanders sometimes have to interact with the higher-ups from non-Space Marine organizations, but most of those people will be men too (except for the Adepta Sororitas). I'd expect most of the Gate Wardens to feel pretty awkward interacting with women (although I'm not sure how they'd display that).

Before the QM made a reference to Space Marines and their 'Greek love', I wasn't sure if Space Marines even had a sex drive. I mean, they're recruited really young and go through pretty extensive modification that might plausibly eradicate the libido. I don't recall any 40k stories with a romance subplot for a Space Marine. I wouldn't put it past the Emperor to ensure that his 'sons' are all asexual and aromantic (so they aren't 'distracted' from Duty and Honor).

If Space Marines still have a sex drive (and physiology that can still achieve sexual pleasure and/or orgasm), then (in addition to actual relationships) there must be a lot of, uh, bros being bros and helping a bro out.

Wait, crap, Space Marine serfs exist. Like, there has probably been at least one genuinely loving Space Marine/serf relationship, but, with that kind of power differential, then most of the time things probably get pretty horrific.

Sigh. How do I manage to keep headcanon-ing 40k to be even darker?

Also, apparently at some point, I subconsciously decided that Space Marines are like the Winter Soldier (from the MCU), in that the Emperor/Hydra would remove anything that wasn't immediately mission critical.

open_sketch · Feb 16, 2020

I personally think the space marines are likely without sex drives, but that wouldn't in any way prevent them from having romantic feelings.

also, most of the marines are incredibly awkward around the girls. it's part of the reason only two or three interact with them.

Sir_Travelsalot · Feb 16, 2020

ancusohm said:
Huh, the space battle took a full eight hours. I guess this fic is going for a slower (probably more realistic, for 40k) depiction of space combat. I'm basing this impression mostly off of some videos I've seen of Battlefleet Gothic gameplay (the videogame not the tabletop) that made it seem pretty fast-paced.

Also, Demirel recognizes and approves of Praxis and Marvel Ann's relationship. That has all kinds of interesting implications. I kinda expected them to fail to pick up on any kind of romantic or sexual interest, especially among women.

Come to think of it, these Space Marines are remarkably comfortable with women. I mean, they're recruited at around the age of 10-14, right? Then they're whisked off to an all-male organization with all-male serfs (except presumably for a few trans women and/or enbies who are probably forced to be closeted). Basically everyone they interact with in any real way are men. Sure, their commanders sometimes have to interact with the higher-ups from non-Space Marine organizations, but most of those people will be men too (except for the Adepta Sororitas). I'd expect most of the Gate Wardens to feel pretty awkward interacting with women (although I'm not sure how they'd display that).

Before the QM made a reference to Space Marines and their 'Greek love', I wasn't sure if Space Marines even had a sex drive. I mean, they're recruited really young and go through pretty extensive modification that might plausibly eradicate the libido. I don't recall any 40k stories with a romance subplot for a Space Marine. I wouldn't put it past the Emperor to ensure that his 'sons' are all asexual and aromantic (so they aren't 'distracted' from Duty and Honor).

If Space Marines still have a sex drive (and physiology that can still achieve sexual pleasure and/or orgasm), then (in addition to actual relationships) there must be a lot of, uh, bros being bros and helping a bro out.

Wait, crap, Space Marine serfs exist. Like, there has probably been at least one genuinely loving Space Marine/serf relationship, but, with that kind of power differential, then most of the time things probably get pretty horrific.

Sigh. How do I manage to keep headcanon-ing 40k to be even darker?

Also, apparently at some point, I subconsciously decided that Space Marines are like the Winter Soldier (from the MCU), in that the Emperor/Hydra would remove anything that wasn't immediately mission critical.

Depends on chapter culture, the Salamanders still get to visit their birth families on Nocturne, and I recall mentions of a space wolf that had a son. Presumably in canon the combination of hypno-indoctrination and however much the geneseed implantation messes with hormones makes it seem unimportant to most Space Marines.
Edit: Ninja'd

EternalStruggle · Feb 16, 2020

ancusohm said:
Huh, the space battle took a full eight hours. I guess this fic is going for a slower (probably more realistic, for 40k) depiction of space combat. I'm basing this impression mostly off of some videos I've seen of Battlefleet Gothic gameplay (the videogame not the tabletop) that made it seem pretty fast-paced.

Yeah the lore is pretty slow space combat by sci-fi standards, so this is accurate to that. The BFG video games aren't accurate to actual 40k space combat in much the same way and for much the same reason that World of Warships isn't accurate to actual World War 2 naval combat.

ancusohm said:
Sigh. How do I manage to keep headcanon-ing 40k to be even darker?

It's not that hard, you just have to look at the setting from a logical implication standpoint.

Do you feel like a hero yet, Praxis?

Well, maybe I should save that for after we grenade some civvies because they were Genestealers.

ancusohm said:
Also, apparently at some point, I subconsciously decided that Space Marines are like the Winter Soldier (from the MCU), in that the Emperor/Hydra would remove anything that wasn't immediately mission critical.

There is lore minutiae to suggest he did that with a creation called the Angel.

It did not... go well.

Simon_Jester · Feb 16, 2020

Stewart9 said:
Except just giving up like that would be failing in their duty and that would be something anathema to any Space Marine let alone to the Son of Dorn.

It's anathema to Space Marine doctrine, but hell, in real life suicidal thoughts are anathema to basic self-preservation, something that a stereotypical human being values about as highly as the Marines value the Codex Astartes and the traditions of the primarch. People whose brains work in a mostly human manner get suicidal thoughts. It happens. Saying "no they would never" makes no more sense than saying "no they are literally incapable of feeling fear."

Remember that the whole point here is that the Marines are basically human beings boosted with physical enhancements, trying very hard to fight on and be brave and be role models and all that, but who are not in any way enhanced to provide invincible courage or psychological invulnerability.

It is one thing for a Space Marine to be willing to sacrifice themselves during battle, It is quite anther thing for one to have to be continuously talked out of straight up suicide.

If you are not aware of the difference between "has suicidal thoughts" and "have to be continuously talked out of straight up suicide," then the problem is on your end, not theirs.

Unless they recruited regular guys and did not try to weed-out the weak this seems a bit much considering guys that would commit suicide when things get really bad would not make it through the process that Space Marine recruits go through before they even get to the implantation stage of the process.

OK, you don't understand how suicidal ideation works.

See, the way it exactly does NOT work is "oh, it's BAD, I'm gonna kill myself" in response to external circumstances.

"I'm walking across 200 miles of tundra in barely adequate clothing with no rations and no tools except a hatchet" does not drive men to suicide.

"I'm fighting a giant monster" does not drive men to suicide.

What drives men to suicide is the memories they can't get out of their heads. The images. The sense of dissociation, of no longer being a human thing part of the human world.

Based on what I've read about Space Marine initiation rituals, I see no sign that anything in a typical chapter's initiation does anything to screen out people with a capacity for PTSD.

I would like to point out that a Marine has to be alive when they are put in a Dreadnought, wounded on to death and clinging to life yes, but still alive when they are put in a the Dreadnought. I suspect that our QM has a reason for this ancient to be acting more like a machine then the space marine he still is.

Well yes. Namely, that he's been living an unpleasant and fitful existence in an armored coffin, with no ability to participate in normal human things like eating and recreation, and under social pressure to act like a big box full of war stories, for the past 2500 years or so. Like, the span of time between the founding of Rome and the present day.

Honestly, him being all like "The guy I used to be is dead, would you like to hear about him" as a way of getting some psychological distance and dissociating himself from the active, breathing, walking, living man he used to be? That's a pretty good coping mechanism compared to what one might expect.

veekie said:
Really, as far as I can tell the torture is mainly good for:
-Is this person willing to be subject to torture for advancement?
-How well does this person resist torture?

Now, in fairness, when "torture" is defined as "exposure to absurdly intense wilderness survival challenges" or "navigate a very perilous and challenging environment" or "be forced to fight a horrible monster," those are actually relevant job qualifications for a Space Marine, since Space Marines regularly do all those things and a man who can't do them isn't qualified. Similar logic exists in real life special forces training programs, though they tend to be a lot more careful not to waste prospective talent than some portrayals of Astartes induction.

Swedish15 · Feb 16, 2020

EternalStruggle said:
Do you feel like a hero yet, Praxis?

Well, maybe I should save that for after we grenade some civvies because they were Genestealers.

Thank you. Now I'll have nightmares about Chaos-infected Praxis hunting down a rogue Inquisitor who has long taken the Emperor's Mercy and committing atrocities in the name of Victory for no real benefit nor reason.

(And I still consider the game not allowing me to turn around after the first contact its biggest sin.)

Cute Princess · Feb 16, 2020

[x] Take volunteers. Explain the situation and call for them to come out, unarmed, one-at-a-time, to be restrained, have their blood sampled, and to be sedated once they are aboard a human-held vessel, or at your discretion should they obstruct your departure.
-[x] Do not inform them that you will destroy their vessel. Best not to warn the 'stealers, wield the threat as coercion, nor spoil the hopes of those who chose to remain upon a ship that was doomed regardless.
-[x] Attempt to Vox Dahlia for her general impression. Ideally don't explain the situation unless she already knows.
-[x] Start the tests as soon as possible.
-[x] If there is time, attempt to get a larger transport with containment facilities.
-[x] Keep them quarantined even if they pass the test.
-[x] If they are infected, consider them a lost cause, but ask Marvel Ann how valuable a contained specimen would be to the cause of combating the threat...

ShyPerson · Feb 16, 2020

@open_sketch

I have to applaud your writing for the last two chapters. You have done brilliantly in brining the human element in characterising the Space Marines in ways I don't think I have seen anywhere else. It opens more story possibilities and interpersonal conflicts within andoutside the Chapters. Hope you don't mind me stealing this concept for anything I write. Whenever that might happen.

I also really love the Dreadnought side story. Not enough attention has been given by eather official or fanworks about what an isolated existence being interned in one really entails after those you know are gone, leaving you an impersonal icon to those that come after. Now I wonder what a lonely existence Björn the Fellhanded must endure.

In any case, I want to throw my cents on this matter:

open_sketch said:
There were two ways I could have written Space Marines, and I wasn't sure which way I would until I got here.The first, my initial idea, was to make them just awful people. To make them the SS in this fascist nightmare, the ultimate agents upholding this horrible society, their ubermensch. Something monsterous and inhuman, that would put immediate lie to the idea that they could be at all good and that the Emperor could have created them for a good reason.And then the second approach, and the one I went with. Space Marines as tragic heroes, really and truly doing their utmost to protect people they no longer understand and systems they are far outside, caring for each other and fighting on against the impossible odds. Superhuman, but still human. Not all Marines are this noble, there are probably some closer to the former idea, but I was enamored with the idea, especially once I did realize that there really was no reason that Space Marines ought to be capable of fighting their neverending war and not be touched by it.I realized then I could only do this, because this is what I want from Warhammer 40,000. I don't want nihilistic horror. I want a tragedy.

I don't believe these two approaches are incompatible on a macro scale. The varying institutional cultures of each Chapter would likely breed diffrent coping mechanisms and attitudes towards their mortal failings. I can see well natured Chapters like the Salamanders and Imperial Fists leaning on unhealthy methods like self-burning for the former.

For your initial idea I think that the Black Templars and Red Scorpions would slot right in to the SS attitude. The former being Fanatical templar knights would mean extreme dislike of differing ideas and great purging enthusiasm, coupled with self-loathing for personal failings. The latter being obsessed with mankind's purity might be dead ringers for the SS, probably likely to go off mission to purge any adhumans they see when they can get away with it, likely having a really toxic internal culture as a result.

Long and possibly disturbing musings aside, I adore what you do with the dis-functionality of the Imperium and how it is ingrained in the very cultural foundation, and the potential depth of history that you imply is behind it. I hope to do my own take with such an approach in mind at some point. You will receive full credit for the inspiration.

open_sketch · Feb 16, 2020

An element I'm trying to make sure I work in is that it feels as though the Imperium has been around so long that it narrows the conceptual space that the people in it, even highly educated and motivated people like Joanyn Praxis, can even envision. The Imperium has existed for longer the human civilization has in our own era. They are as far from the foundation of the Imperium as we are from the city of Uruk.

Further, an idea I love is that it is not that the Imperium is forgetting its own history. It is being crushed by it. Every single aspect of their society has thousands upon thousands of years of continuity behind it. Every world has a depth of history compared to our own, and there are a million such worlds. Most Space Marine chapters are older than the Catholic Church. You could turn over those rocks forever and not even scratch the surface of the tide of historical momentum that has created the Imperium in its current form. It's all there, you can go visit the archives of any major world and probably see a very good picture of its history, you can find archival worlds where records go back to when the Emperor walked the galaxy, perfectly preserved, but the history of the Imperium fills a trillion books. Without the perch of a reader looking into the fictional world, actually having to be grounded in it, how can any person get an idea of the vastness of the systems around them? How do they assemble a narrative about it?

I'd be willing to guess that the average Imperial citizen literally does not believe that humans existed before the Imperium. Most probably believe the Emperor created them the way he created Space Marines. They might know intellectually, in a hazy sort of way, that there was something before the Imperium, but they can't even fathom what it would look like.

All the major Imperial institutions except the Soritas are as about as old as agriculture is to us, and must seem as fundamental to human society. Even relatively moderate reforms to those systems must seem to their worldview as irrational and dangerous as, say, the average person today views primitivism or voluntary human extinction.

Joanyn Praxis' most radical thought is 'It doesn't have to be this way."

Ugolino · Feb 16, 2020

The idea of Old Night isn't a thing in 40k dogma? The Heresy is full on myth in canon even for those in the Inquisition, but...

As for Marines, my own take is more...All that blather about courage and honour rings thoroughly hollow as it's just...parrot talk drilled into them by the hypnoindoctrination. They're broken monsters ten thousand years past the best-by date, clinging to protocols and relics that're hollow mockeries of the Legions that butchered the surviving human civilizations in a forgotten age at the whims of unbalanced warlords- and that's just the loyalists!

open_sketch · Feb 16, 2020

Ugolino said:
The idea of Old Night isn't a thing in 40k dogma? The Heresy is full on myth in canon even for those in the Inquisition, but...

For the average person, how is it different from "[1] In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. [2] And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep."?

Ugolino · Feb 16, 2020

open_sketch said:
For the average person, how is it different from "[1] In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. [2] And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep."?

Right, I get they'd have no deeper understanding of any of the context, but I'd imagine "Old Night" at least gets a namedrop if only as "that thing the Imperium is in contrast to"?

open_sketch · Feb 16, 2020

Ugolino said:
Right, I get they'd have no deeper understanding of any of the context, but I'd imagine "Old Night" at least gets a namedrop if only as "that thing the Imperium is in contrast to"?

At this point, why would there need to be? Implying there was something other than the Imperium, even something terrible, implies there could be something other than the Imperium in the future...

Forgothrax · Feb 16, 2020

The ideal of a broken, fascist Imperium, choking in its own evil and surrounded by a universe almost made to order to reinforce the ideals of a fascist regime, but still filled with people struggling to make it a better place...

That is the very best story and the most compelling that can be told in this setting. Far better than "grimdark for the grimdark god!"

samdamandias · Feb 16, 2020

open_sketch said:
At this point, why would there need to be? Implying there was something other than the Imperium, even something terrible, implies there could be something other than the Imperium in the future...

There are Forgeworlds and Knight Worlds and a few other things that "pre-date the Imperium"

But it's easy to imagine that that's a near meaningless distinction, because those worlds have at least ten thousand years of recorded history, so "pre-dates the Imperium" is equivalent to "was around at the start, pre-Great Crusade."

Ugolino · Feb 16, 2020

open_sketch said:
At this point, why would there need to be? Implying there was something other than the Imperium, even something terrible, implies there could be something other than the Imperium in the future...

Because the Emperor would be "salvation" from something in their dogma?

Hakazin · Feb 16, 2020

open_sketch said:
At this point, why would there need to be? Implying there was something other than the Imperium, even something terrible, implies there could be something other than the Imperium in the future...

The End of History decided it hadn't gone far enough, so it went back to devour the Beginning and Middle. Francis Fukuyama would be proud.

EternalStruggle · Feb 16, 2020

open_sketch said:
All the major Imperial institutions except the Soritas are as about as old as agriculture is to us, and must seem as fundamental to human society. Even relatively moderate reforms to those systems must seem to their worldview as irrational and dangerous as, say, the average person today views primitivism or voluntary human extinction.

The Sororitas indeed are "only" somewhat over a thousand years older to the modern Imperium than the Epic of Gilgamesh is to us, yet.

open_sketch said:
Joanyn Praxis' most radical thought is 'It doesn't have to be this way."

Orks, Tyranids, Necrons, Chaos, Puritan Inquisitors, Most Radical Inquisitors, the High Lords, the Planetary Nobility, most of the Church, the Mechanicus, the Administratum, Dark Eldar, some Space Marines: "Nice idea you have there, would be a shame if something were to... happen to it."

Praxis: "yeah but nothing's gonna tho" (While she's still alive at the absolute minimum.)

Suffer Not ≡][≡ 40k Inquisition Quest

#1 Transgender Pansexual Witch Bandit Wolf Girl

Draconic GM

Theoretical Lover of Girls

Someone I might become

#1 Transgender Pansexual Witch Bandit Wolf Girl

Never wakes up tired.

Guardian of the dead’s final rest.

#1 Transgender Pansexual Witch Bandit Wolf Girl

#1 Transgender Pansexual Witch Bandit Wolf Girl

#1 Transgender Pansexual Witch Bandit Wolf Girl

Not Going Gently

Apprentice Plane Wizard

Serpent Admirer