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Shards of a Broken Sun [Megaten/Shugo Chara/Exalted]

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I'm flying home to Dublin today, so realistically the soonest I can probably start writing is Wednesday; I'll close the vote at that point. Y'all still should still try to find consensus... I've seen a lot of good points made. I've got a favorite, but I'm not going to tell you which. :o

In the meantime, some thoughts.

Nero200 said:
But also, as previously mentioned, the promise was dumb to start with, and the Scavengers don't seem to have an end plan beyond "Continue killing government employees".

Considering JPs is also part of the government, if the Scavengers manage the extremely slim chance of succeeding in their plan, they will be getting ganked by demon summoning JP agents the next day, because they will be, in the eyes of the people in power, serial killing terrorists.

If they manage to win against trained combat operatives with demons, then Hotsuin will likely get involved directly, at which point they become smears on the nearest surface.
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That was the planned escalation path, yes. It isn't what's likely to happen now, but if you think back to the Bane selection, I told you that picking three of them would at least reduce the intensity of each.

In the case of the Scavengers, what was originally planned was for Amu to encounter them while they ran from JPs during a failed robbery, and then do... who knows what. Their powers are designed as warped mirrors of Amu's own; not to more of an 80% match, but my expectation was very much for the group to get taken down, Amu to encounter Hotsuin in the process, and for the truth to only come out later, if at all. Would've been an interesting plotline.

At lowered intensity, Amu ended up encountering Kana in far nicer circumstances—and befriended her, which I suppose makes things more complicated in the short term.

PistachioCookies said:
This is the first time she's impeding us, but it's also a tipping point. If we alienate Midori now, she probably won't stop her efforts but also get increasingly desperate and unpredictable.
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Similarly, publicity: Yeah, on its own that was supposed to be bad publicity. There's a lot to pick from, and it wouldn't take much warping—really, none at all!—for a reporter to write a hit piece on Amu and her friends. Add in a few more misfortunate interactions, and she'd be in a very bad spot indeed. Midori and Tsumugu would still be on Amu's side, because I'm not sure they're capable of anything else, but their stance would also be what you're only worried might happen now. It's very much in gamut, mind you. It's not locked in by way of Bane, not that it ever would have been, but all the lack of Bane there means is you have fair odds of avoiding it.

This time, instead, Amu's publicity gets kickstarted by encountering the reality failures we saw in the previous arc. Getting photographed fighting literal demons, in a culture already conditioned by magical girl anime and such, gave her a big leg up on the "PR" front.

As for those reality failures...

If you'd picked that as the sole bane, then they would have been smaller, more spread out, and Amu might not even have encountered them for several months.

PistachioCookies said:
So is the fifth member named Mimi?

Or is the fifth member really named Suzushina Yuriko and look exactly like the picture, with this random mention of a "Mimi" just meant as a distraction?
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I'll be nice and just tell you.

The fifth member is named Mimi, and she is definitely not an Accelerator expy. :V
 
Baughn said:
This is all, of course, assuming nothing terrible is going on. If Amu ends up being the Big Damn Hero then however she got there is likely to be overlooked.
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If they need that kind of aid, they've probably needed it for over a week, with the situation getting worse every day.

I voted for Kana as a focus option because I figured that situation should be handled immediately. It was annoying when it turned out the focus option was getting handled 6 days later, instead of immediately. But now, the narrative has focused on the highest-danger, worst-case scenarios for what could be going on with the Scavengers. The kinds of scenarios that absolutely must be addressed as a higher priority than anything else we've done since waking up. If it turns out Amu has been twiddling her thumbs for 6 days while the Scavengers have been getting tortured or something, I'm going to be very frustrated.

Amu has demonstrated a pattern of hesitance. Hesitance to act on the Scavenger situation, both now and in general. Hesitance to even think about how to act on the Scavenger situation. Hesitance to reveal the truth of herself to her parents. Hesitance to act on her worries about Ami. Hesitance to open up to Lulu. I can't name a time when I was happy with the results. I've been much happier with the results of decisive action, like Plan Dream Again. When circumstances forced Amu to stop hesitating about telling her parents, it turned out she should have done it long ago.

I'm sick of hesitating. In fact, I am going to specifically vote against it. If Manticore really is responsible for the current situation, waiting 6 days was a grave mistake already. On a broader scale, hesitation is not the answer to the oncoming end of the world. If we vote for a hesitant course of action here, we're going to end up with a version of Amu who is more inclined to keep hesitating.

There are a lot of specific points I want to make Amu bring up, but I don't think we have enough control over Amu to make sure she does. So,

[X] Nero200

[X] Whatever wins, do it decisively. Firm your resolve. Burn a WP point if you have to. If Kana needs you, she's needed you for over a week.



Naomi won't be happy about this. But if the situation really is that the Scavengers haven't contacted us because they're worried about the JP's connection, then that's gotta be Naomi's fault. Kana would have called us anyway. In this scenario, Naomi's decision is backfiring on her, in a way that's honestly not that bad for her or the Scavengers. I don't think we're going to resolve the Scavenger situation without something to jolt her out of her current mindset. If this is it, so be it.

I just really wish she didn't know where our family lives. If it comes to a fight with Naomi, I hope Kana doesn't take her side. But, hey! Fighting is one of the best ways magical girls know how to make friends. Hopefully taking away the "masquerade" tropes didn't take away that...


I'd like to point out that we don't really know Manticore is government. There's a decent chance they are, but the backers of an organization like Manticore would have reason to hide their true identity. If they're not government, posing as a government black project makes a good cover. Helps instill a sense of fear and helplessness in their victims, and discourages people from seeking help they otherwise might.

Manticore might be corporate, like Easter, or Cybers Communication (Hikawa's company). They could be with one of the multiple cults running around. They could be with someone else's government. We don't know.
 
Baughn said:
In the case of the Scavengers, what was originally planned was for Amu to encounter them while they ran from JPs during a failed robbery, and then do... who knows what.
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Well. That just skyrocketed the likelihood of my speculation that Manticore are actually a subgroup within JPs (ala Hydra being within SHIELD in the Marvel films) by a good few notches, if they were originally supposed to be running from JPs.

Tricky.

Though at least that confirms one thing: we need to make sure Midori doesn't call JPs over this.
Quine said:
If they need that kind of aid, they've probably needed it for over a week, with the situation getting worse every day.
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If they would have been running from JPs in the original storyline, there's decent odds they still recognized JPs in the photos of Amu's heroics in our actual storyline. So there's a very good chance that they simply voluntarily cut off Amu on suspicion of her being compromised. I say the chance of it is at least equal, if not better, than the likelihood of the Scavengers just being in trouble of their own.

@Quine - Just out of interest.... you're calling for decisive action but exactly what is your envisioned plan for dealing with an unhappy Naomi (and by extention, the rest of the Scavengers) in the event they did voluntarily cut off Amu?
Winged One said:
>.> That's... worrying, in the implications.
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Smaller means easier for someone to cover up and/or not in places with lots of people exposed to them. That means in places/at times when there aren't a small army of psychics to help Amu deal with any demons that come out and no witnesses except Amu to describe the circumstances. The demons would likely also have been fewer, but higher-level and more deadly than a bunch of Strixes.

I'm guessing if that had been the sole bane, they would have happened at highly inopportune times in the story, with no opportunity to "report" them or get much help or find out what they were after the fact. I.E. If we were helping the Scavengers, one might have popped up while being hunted by JPs and we'd have to fight them at the same time as we had JPs trying to kill us - and it would've been an actual giant Roc instead of a Strix.

JPs would not have seen the break that it came out of and would've assumed Amu had deliberately summoned the demon. And be very unhappy with her after losing men and possibly buildings to its rampage.
 
PistachioCookies said:
JPs would not have seen the break that it came out of and would've assumed Amu had deliberately summoned the demon. And be very unhappy with her after losing men and possibly buildings to its rampage.
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Good reasoning. That specific scenario would have required a dual bane to be probable, but I could see it happening if you got unlucky and/or didn't spot a trap in time.

Well, you can thank Saaya for this not currently being an option.
 
Baughn said:
Good reasoning. That specific scenario would have required a dual bane to be probable, but I could see it happening if you got unlucky and/or didn't spot a trap in time.

Well, you can thank Saaya for this not currently being an option.
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...is Saaya technically a prisoner and just too comatose for anyone to notice it?
 
Winged One said:
...is Saaya technically a prisoner and just too comatose for anyone to notice it?
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No. That's… no. XD

Hotsuin values ability, loyalty and intelligence, but also ethics. He seems less bothered by someone going against him, than by someone going against him without having a good plan for "And what then, smarty-pants?"

This is all canon, so if I didn't tell you, hopefully someone else would. But Hotsuin isn't the type to take hostages period; he had reason and opportunity to do so during the canon plot, during far more stressful circumstances, and still didn't do so. Not to mention that he's surrounded himself with people who are, to a person, highly capable and principled.

One of them's a world-class detective, come to think of it. That guy would absolutely call Hotsuin out on any bullshit, but the fact is he found no reason to do so until Hell Week was already in progress.

Anyway… I can't imagine Hotsuin treating Saaya that way. If he found reason to go against Amu, and his subordinates couldn't do it, he'd just do it himself. …also we'd be a smear on the wall.

That's not to say there aren't microphones in the hospital rooms, mind you.
 
Quine said:
I'm sick of hesitating. In fact, I am going to specifically vote against it. If Manticore really is responsible for the current situation, waiting 6 days was a grave mistake already. On a broader scale, hesitation is not the answer to the oncoming end of the world. If we vote for a hesitant course of action here, we're going to end up with a version of Amu who is more inclined to keep hesitating.
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Well put.
Winged One said:
...is Saaya technically a prisoner and just too comatose for anyone to notice it?
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Unlikely. JPs doesn't reach that point of forced enlistment until half a week into hell, and even then it's only because they have literally no other choice. And it's not with force then, just with the fact that either everyone dies, or Io does.

Hotsuins leadership is harsh, but it comes with an open door to leave through if you aren't going to get with the program. He's willing to tell Hibiki to fuck off if he doesn't like it, even after seeing his power. (At least until the final two days, but that point, even if Hotsuin wouldn't admit it, it's closer to trying to convince a friend than enlistment)

Now, JPs would likely love for a destruction keyed Psionic to sign up as an agent and have her happy to work for them in 4-5 years.
But that's just recognising value. They are also probably the only good-aligned psychic healthcare providers in range.
 
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I meant that maybe they thought she accidentally the fabric of reality and she was under arrest. :V
 
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Yeah, at this point I'm going to commit to full disclosure. Naomi's desire for secrecy is understandable, but ultimately harmful to both her and her friends.

[X] Full disclosure to mum about the Scavangers circumstances.
- [X] Explain that they are a bit like Utau, though they suffered under a much worse group than Easter.
-- [X] Mention that Manticore are part of the government, unlike Easter, but like JPs, and so they don't trust any officials.
--- [X] And unlike JPs, they are evil. Like Easter.
- [X] If possible, avoid telling her that Kana is a murderer. That doesn't seem like it would go down well.
 
Baughn said:
Their powers are designed as warped mirrors of Amu's own; not to more of an 80% match, but my expectation was very much for the group to get taken down
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If the Scavengers' powers are meant to mirror Amu's own abilities, I think it's possible to guess what the distribution is. Amu has 8 Psionic Skills that she has any points in.

Of these, Telekinesis and Mental Range are seemingly "basic" abilities that most psychics have some measure of capability at rather than something that would be considered a specialization. So the "specializations" we're looking at are Biokinesis, Empathy, Mind Control, Illusion, Dreamwalking and Precognition.

We know Kana specializes in Mind Control. We know Yui's ability that she has trouble controlling is Dreamwalking.

We don't know much about Aoi, but we do know she's blind and yet is their navigator during their excursions. I would have guessed Clairvoyance, but since Amu doesn't have it herself, it's likely to be either Empathy (borrowing other people's senses and lending her own) or Precognition. My money is on Empathy given what we know about her "big sister" personality and apparent likelihood to not fault Amu if she spilled their secrets.

Since there are only 5 members, one of Amu's 6 non-TK, non-Range skills also isn't going to be a main specialty. And out of all of them it's likely to be Precognition based on the QM's clear reservations with it due to the stated implementation issues. I doubt he'd willingly throw yet another one into the quest by making one of the Scavengers a precog.

That leaves Mimi and Naomi.

My guess is that Amu not having met Mimi is not a mere coincidence. I suspect Mimi has Illusion and has been using it to hide herself from Amu most of the time.

That leaves Naomi with Biokinesis, which I suspect in some way also ties into their whole deal with needing to steal drugs.
 
[X] Full disclosure to mum about the Scavangers circumstances.
-[X] Explain that they are a bit like Utau, though they suffered under a much worse group than Easter.
--[X] Mention that Manticore are part of the government, unlike Easter, but like JPs, and so they don't trust any officials.
---[X] And unlike JPs, they are evil. Like Easter.
-[X] If possible, avoid telling her that Kana is a murderer. That doesn't seem like it would go down well.
 
What it comes down to is that there are 2 main possibilities for why Kana is not returning Amu's calls:

1. They are voluntarily excommunicating Amu.
2. It's not voluntary. Something bad happened to them.

The optimal approach to take is different depending on which one it is.

We have been told by the QM flat out:
Baughn said:
Wouldn't be the same reaction. One is "Amu is terribly careless", the other is "Amu betrayed us", and while Naomi might think otherwise, they'd lead to different responses from literally everyone else in the group.


This is all, of course, assuming nothing terrible is going on. If Amu ends up being the Big Damn Hero then however she got there is likely to be overlooked.
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If something bad happened to them, the optimal approach is "full disclosure". They won't hold it against us.

If not, they WILL hold it against us. Even the members who aren't Naomi will believe "Amu betrayed us".

In light of this, I'm going to try one more time to propose a course of action that addresses both possibilities. This time with its intent more explicitly spelled out, rather than leaving it to the attempted meta-gaming on my last try.

[X] Truth Will Out
-[X] You suspect there's either one of two reasons why Kana is no longer returning your calls. Either something bad has happened to them, or else they saw you on the news with the government agents and got worried that you betrayed them. If it's the first case, you ought to tell your mother everything - they'll need all the help they can get; they surely won't hold it against you if you did it to help them. If it's the second, you need to prove you haven't betrayed them.
-[X] The only way to let your mother know the truth without betraying your promise is if you take her to the Scavengers and let them tell her themselves, which will also prove to them you didn't even tell your parents anything. But if something bad happened to them, it might not be safe to take her to their house.
-[X] You don't know which one is the case, but you DO know 2 people who might potentially be able to foresee whether it would be safe to bring your mother along. One is your school principal, Tsukasa Amakawa. The other is the fortune-teller, Saeki Nobuko. You don't know whether you'll be able to reach Tsukasa, but your mother is professionally acquainted with Saeki and probably has her phone number. If not, you know exactly which TV station she works at and can call there.
-[X] You know your mother has a certain regard for Saeki, perhaps not enough that Saeki could convince her to leave everything to you, but enough that if she predicted it would be safe, Midori could be convinced come with you and hold onto her questions until she can speak to the Scavengers for answers.
-[X] Call in help:
--[X] Saeki Nobuko. Without telling her anything about the Scavengers, request a reading on whether Midori would be safe if she were to come along with Amu to the house they plan on visiting shortly.
---[X] If the answer is positive:
----[X] Bring Midori Hinamori along with you on your trip, explaining that she should hear the answer from the horse's mouth instead of Amu.
----[X] Bring Miki to scout ahead, just in case her prediction was wrong - even Tsukasa wasn't able to see the demons coming, after all.
---[X] If the answer is negative, or if Saeki is unable to give you a clear answer:
----[X] The Scavengers are likely in trouble. Tell your mother everything.

This is largely the same intent as from my previous vote, except now it explicitly votes for telling Midori everything should the reading come back negative. Before, I was assuming there would be an interrupt if that happened and that people would decide on the follow-up then. But as we've been told by the QM that they won't hold it against us for spilling if they're in trouble, there's not much need to wait for that.

So far as I can see, the only ways for this to really fail is either if Saeki produces a negative or unclear reading and the Scavengers are not actually in trouble, or if Midori continues to insist on hearing from Amu before the Scavengers. In the event of the former, Amu can honestly say she thought they were in trouble and needed saving and I think it would be likely everyone bar Naomi would give her a pass on it. Reducing the likelihood of the latter is the reason why we're calling Saeki, who Midori is known to hold respect for, rather than Tsukasa.

Though I'd like to believe Midori has enough patience that she wouldn't mind waiting for another hour or so, that the likelihood of her insisting on instant answers from Amu would be low as it is.
 
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[X] Truth Will Out
-[X] You suspect there's either one of two reasons why Kana is no longer returning your calls. Either something bad has happened to them, or else they saw you on the news with the government agents and got worried that you betrayed them. If it's the first case, you ought to tell your mother everything - they'll need all the help they can get; they surely won't hold it against you if you did it to help them. If it's the second, you need to prove you haven't betrayed them.
-[X] The only way to let your mother know the truth without betraying your promise is if you take her to the Scavengers and let them tell her themselves, which will also prove to them you didn't even tell your parents anything. But if something bad happened to them, it might not be safe to take her to their house.
-[X] You don't know which one is the case, but you DO know 2 people who might potentially be able to foresee whether it would be safe to bring your mother along. One is your school principal, Tsukasa Amakawa. The other is the fortune-teller, Saeki Nobuko. You don't know whether you whether you'll be able to reach Tsukasa, but your mother is professionally acquainted with Saeki and probably has her phone number. If not, you know exactly which TV station she works at and can call there.
-[X] You know your mother has a certain regard for Saeki, perhaps not enough that Saeki could convince her to leave everything to you, but enough that if she predicted it would be safe, Midori could be convinced come with you and hold onto her questions until she can speak to the Scavengers for answers.
-[X] Call in help:
--[X] Saeki Nobuko. Without telling her anything about the Scavengers, request a reading on whether Midori would be safe if she were to come along with Amu to the house they plan on visiting shortly.
---[X] If the answer is positive:
----[X] Bring Midori Hinamori along with you on your trip, explaining that she should hear the answer from the horse's mouth instead of Amu.
----[X] Bring Miki to scout ahead, just in case her prediction was wrong - even Tsukasa wasn't able to see the demons coming, after all.
---[X] If the answer is negative, or if Saeki is unable to give you a clear answer:
----[X] The Scavengers are likely in trouble. Tell your mother everything.
 
Baughn said:
There's also a fifth member, whom Amu's never met.
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Wasn't there a sixth Scavenger?
Baughn said:
Kana herself was just as friendly and supportive as ever, and the rest of her family was slowly growing to accept her. It was... nice. There were two of them she hadn't even met, but—it was nice. She was sure she would. Eventually.
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At the point where this quote is from, Amu has met Kana, Naomi, Yui, and Aoi. There are supposedly two she hasn't met. One is Mimi. Where did the last one go?

Baughn said:
[Boon] Retrocognitive Flashes
  • Amu sometimes gets glimpses of past events that can provide clues or insights into current challenges.
  • This can happen regardless. Choosing this boon doubles your dice pool.
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Are these still a thing? Can we roll for some insight here?
 
PistachioCookies said:
The only way to let your mother know the truth without betraying your promise is if you take her to the Scavengers and let them tell her themselves, which will also prove to them you didn't even tell your parents anything.
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I'm pretty sure the Scavengers consider "where they sleep at night" one of their more important secrets. Arguably it's the only one that actually matters - Manticore presumably already knows who they are and what they're doing in a broad sense.
 
Skelm said:
I'm pretty sure the Scavengers consider "where they sleep at night" one of their more important secrets. Arguably it's the only one that actually matters - Manticore presumably already knows who they are and what they're doing in a broad sense.
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Perhaps, but between outright full disclosure without any say-so from them versus bringing your mother to their house, giving them a chance to say their piece first and keep what other secrets they may, one is clearly the lesser "betrayal".

Houses can also be vacated. And I personally suspect theirs already has been.

Whether by force or voluntarily is still an open question.
 
......The other theory I had was that "Mimi" was actually 2 people sharing 1 body.

One of them calls herself Mimi.

The other calls herself Suzushina Yuriko and when she takes control, her hair turns white and sprouts a flower near her temple.

Good to know that Mimi is just Mimi.
 
PistachioCookies said:
In light of this, I'm going to try one more time to propose a course of action that addresses both possibilities. This time with its intent more explicitly spelled out, rather than leaving it to the attempted meta-gaming on my last try.

[X] Truth Will Out
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Taking someone to where they sleep is betrayal. Telling a precog what to focus on to spy on them is the same, but much worse.
Especially having someone without mental defences doing either of those things.

All this accomplishes is exposing them to Saeki, and putting Midori at higher risk.

Again, I see the promise as essentially pointless, made under duress, and not something that should be in the priority queue for Amu's decisions. Especially not higher than having Midori fully on side, rather than worrying that Amu is making bad judgement calls.

We have no reason to believe that walking within mental range of the house and checking is going to trigger anything, and can be done with no more exposure than is already going to happen anyway.

Unless we for some reason think that Midori would accept the Scavengers saying "No, we aren't telling you anything, go away" without then demanding the info from Amu/Miki.
Which we don't, last I checked.

EDIT: And if Naomi threatens Midori to keep quiet, then it is rapidly going to turn into a fight to keep Midori from being mind wiped of the location, or a fight where she calls JPs because her daughter is being threatened into silence by a group of kids running around attacking people with mind control / illusions / whatever.
 
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