Shards of a Broken Sun [Megaten/Shugo Chara/Exalted]

I think their reaction is less likely to be fear, and more likely to be "can we use this?"
I concur, especially if Manticore is staffed by people who come from traditional magic families and have the capability to summon demons.

Kana herself might not quite have been able to integrate the Phoenix's knowledge into her own brain, but that doesn't mean there aren't other existing ways to "siphon" knowledge in a similar manner. Training at Solar rates is probably not the biggest thing that they are interested in when it comes to psionics.

I suspect that magic/demons/thaumaturgy can likely do a lot of things that low-level psionic abilities can do and it's going to be the higher-level abilities that really interest them.

And the thing is, when it comes to training higher level skills.....
And on the earlier topic, (some) Psionics being able to train at Solar speeds must be really scary if you arr an organisation who wants to reign them in or jump on the problems they can theoretically make?
.....we do happen to know that, training rates aside, in order to -actually- train them, they have to extensively and comprehensive train every facet of a given skill.

For certain skills, that's the kind of thing that will be pretty obvious when someone tries to train it. For example, we know high-level applications of Thermokinesis are stuff like flash-freezing a building. Anybody trying to train that is very liable to be noticed.

And then, they are probably going to get treated like someone who was throwing Mabufudyne spells all over the place and then they will likely find the number of opportunities they get for training the skill severely shrinking shortly afterwards.
 
For certain skills, that's the kind of thing that will be pretty obvious when someone tries to train it. For example, we know high-level applications of Thermokinesis are stuff like flash-freezing a building. Anybody trying to train that is very liable to be noticed.
Good thing we've got Dreamwalking. Throwing that kind of power around in a dreamwalk is a lot less visible.
 
Throwing that kind of power around in a dreamwalk is a lot less visible.
This is definitely true in comparison with Thermokinesis, but didn't Naoto effectively randomly walk around and spot Ami Dreamwalking?
(Unless you were thinking about Thermokinesis in Dreamwalking, which wasn't in the list of trainable skills while sleeping Baughn gave earlier)

I'd think Teleportation training up to 5 dots is easier to hide in a safe zone given the Feat Examples provided as long as people have no reason to be looking themselves or don't have related wards in the area.
 
This is definitely true in comparison with Thermokinesis, but didn't Naoto effectively randomly walk around and spot Ami Dreamwalking?
(Unless you were thinking about Thermokinesis in Dreamwalking, which wasn't in the list of trainable skills while sleeping Baughn gave earlier)

I'd think Teleportation training up to 5 dots is easier to hide in a safe zone given the Feat Examples provided as long as people have no reason to be looking themselves or don't have related wards in the area.
Perhaps not while sleeping, at least at current ranks, but we don't need to be sleeping. There are a number of ways to enter a dreamwalk while awake. We're even in one right now.
 
One of the things that surprises me about Manticore is that Baughn has said this about Persona 5:

Persona 5 is not canon; as mentioned, this is mostly because I haven't played it -- though also because I tried to play it and bounced off its world-view, hard. People who act like the ones in Persona 5 exist, but they're not that common.
To me, Manticore seems very similar to the villains of Persona 5. Heavily corrupt conspiracy within or strongly tied to the government, Asahi's monomaniacal focus on her distorted desires, adults exploiting their power over children to the point of sexual abuse... and Kana herself shares a lot of themes with Goro Akechi.

It's a surprise to me that someone would bounce off Persona 5 and then go on to write something with so many similarities.
 
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@Baughn, would we be able to overlap Lore and Awareness training during school time, perhaps by having Amu try to pay attention to what's going on around her while studying?
Easily enough. That one won't give her the appearance of not paying attention, I'd imagine. Getting Naoto to help you should be much easier than for e.g. firearms, but not automatic; so far you're still "this really weird kid" to her.
It's a surprise to me that someone would bounce off Persona 5 and then go on to write something with so many similarities.
Well, between that and Persona 4... I just decided to spend my time on the latter.

Though also, my impression of Persona 5 was kinda that practically everyone in a position of authority was evil, ignorant, uncaring or a combination of those. Perhaps that's mistaken; I didn't get very far in. It definitely doesn't describe the story I'm writing.
 
Though also, my impression of Persona 5 was kinda that practically everyone in a position of authority was evil, ignorant, uncaring or a combination of those. Perhaps that's mistaken; I didn't get very far in. It definitely doesn't describe the story I'm writing.
The boss of P5's very first dungeon may have been a teacher who was basically doing to his students what that Manticore security guard was doing to the test subjects ("private lessons" indeed) but one of your Social Links - well, Confidants - in that game is also your own homeroom teacher, the Temperence arcana, who does take your side. The perk of having her leveled is actually that she allows you to "slack off" and do other things in the middle of classes (even persuading other teachers to turn a blind eye).

Would be nice if Amu could have that benefit too.

But since the theme of P5 is rebellion, the enemies are by and large evil authority figures. To be fair, there is a logical reason for it - by the time of the events of P5, the conspiracy had been making extensive use of their cognitive hitman to get rid of many of the other figures of authority who might have gotten in their way. There's a prime example in how the school principle of Shujin, who had been turning a blind eye to Kamoshida until his confession, was actually ready to go to the police afterwards and subsequently ended up offed right on the street (assassinated via metaverse) before he was able to reach the station.

And then there's also your own probation guardian/Hierophant confidant, who used to work in the government but left after Futaba's mother got killed, realizing someone up top was corrupt and ordering assassinations. I assume this would likewise be the case with at least some of the more upstanding people who would have been working in Manticore, once they realized the kinds of activities they get up to behind the surface: they'd just leave in disgust.

So there's not going to be many decent authority figures left, when many get scared and disgruntled enough to leave their jobs and the rest get purged by force.

One of your other Confidants, the Sun, is actually a career politician himself. He's another example, used to hold a position in the Diet and then got accused of embezzlement and smeared out of the position. Turn out, even if there is someone decent in an authority position, there's no guarantee they get to stay in it. The chances of getting pushed out tend to be high, when you have a bunch of highly driven psychopaths vying for the same spot.
 
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Don't mind me, just rolling some dice.
Baughn threw 4 10-faced dice. Reason: Precog: Medium; low; D3 Total: 26
6 6 5 5 10 10 5 5
 
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That looks like a failure: Medium Impact Low Probability?
Medium range, low impact. Amu was attempting to divine what would happen to Kana.

Unfortunately the dice pool for that is Perception +Investigation+Precog. Plus two willpower, because she isn't going to be needing that later and she really does care.

She had enough successes for a glimpse, but not a useful one.
 
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Unfortunately the dice pool for that is Perception +Investigation+Precog. Plus two willpower, because she isn't going to be needing that later and she really does care.

She had enough successes for a glimpse, but not a useful one.
To be fair, seeing nothing in particular happening is going to be the mostly likely outcome when someone lives in a safe place - the whole point is that it is safe, because nothing particularly special happens.

It's one of those things that is similar to how it can be difficult to determine how good a good decision actually was after the fact, even if it truly was the best one possible, because you just don't know how bad it would have been otherwise.

A precog version of Utau's Ragged Crossroads would actually be more helpful for this kind of case. Since, even if she were to see absolutely nothing of worth happening in the routes where Kana goes to live with Naoto and Amu - she'd know they were the "good" options, in comparison to the disasters that she'd see happening in the alternative paths where Kana is left on her own, or Utau were to leave Kana on her own.
Medium range, low impact. Amu was attempting to divine what would happen to Kana.
Frankly, I'm a little surprised that this is even possible at the moment. Since Kana has/had chunks of demon sticking out of her and demons are supposed to block precog.

I guess it doesn't count anymore when it's been pulped by mind crush and fused to a human.

Though then again, I suppose it would be too easy, if precog could be blocked simply by mincing up demons and sprinkling their residue over everybody you wanted to make immune to precog.
 
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Well, between that and Persona 4... I just decided to spend my time on the latter.

Though also, my impression of Persona 5 was kinda that practically everyone in a position of authority was evil, ignorant, uncaring or a combination of those. Perhaps that's mistaken; I didn't get very far in. It definitely doesn't describe the story I'm writing.
It's just been disorienting hearing something that sounds like "I want to write a story about people who are better than that" and seeing a story about people who are worse. More magical power. More mundane power. Worse abuses of both. Evil cognitive psientists on staff, actively murdering children for years without repercussion. Sanctioned child rapists on the payroll, assigned to abuse children as a job duty. Snipers. And more.
Medium range, low impact. Amu was attempting to divine what would happen to Kana.

Unfortunately the dice pool for that is Perception +Investigation+Precog. Plus two willpower, because she isn't going to be needing that later and she really does care.

She had enough successes for a glimpse, but not a useful one.
A precog version of Utau's Ragged Crossroads would actually be more helpful for this kind of case. Since, even if she were to see absolutely nothing of worth happening in the routes where Kana goes to live with Naoto and Amu - she'd know they were the "good" options, in comparison to the disasters that she'd see happening in the alternative paths where Kana is left on her own, or Utau were to leave Kana on her own.
Precog is pretty close to being Ragged Crossroads for the future, considering what the scaling examples say about the reliability of individual precog visions. Something as complex as "what's going to happen to Kana" probably has multiple futures, and there's no guarantee a single precog vision will show us the future we're going to get. It takes Precognition 4 to reach the point of seeing multiple possibilities, though.

(Personally, I'm quite uninterested in taking Precog to high dots. I don't want this to become the kind of story it would with high Precog at our disposal, especially Precog 5.)
 
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(Personally, I'm quite uninterested in taking Precog to high dots. I don't want this to become the kind of story it would with high Precog at our disposal, especially Precog 5.)
Precog 5 was I thought more towards gaining some level of access to other realities, no? This to me implies precog involves something a bit more fundamental to it as well, not quite sure what though. Maybe some kind of waveform manipulation, though I don't know if that really makes sense in the Persona universe.

But I guess you're worried even with that it might become some kind of kind of future vision story then.
 
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......Gotta point out again that, whether or not Amu herself has high levels in Precog, there are already other characters from all the series this quest is crossing over who do come with the ability. Tsukasa and Saeki are the most immediate ones that Amu knows, but on the SMT side you've got the Akashic Records and even the Velvet Room, whose whole deal is tarot. Igor himself acted as an actual fortune teller at one point in P4, even if your party never got to have any of theirs read by him during that culture festival.

And then, of course, there's going to be whoever's got the Sidereal shard from Exalted.

So even if Amu herself can't personally look into the future, she will have - already has, when you count Tsukasa and Saeki - access to people who are ready and willing to do it on her behalf. Not to mention, enemies who are probably going to be able to do the same. It was a given from the moment the whole story began.

It's not like there wasn't a reason I brought up Utau's Lightsmithing as an scrying jammer before. That hypothetical about fighting a precog is now closer to an immediate reality than it was before, now that we know Manticore has successfully captured Aoi. While Kana may think her mother won't harm her or Naomi, that's not exactly the same thing as being completely unable to put them to work, even assuming her superiors don't just override what Asahi wants to do.

Chances seem decent some of the bigger threats are also going to have even better precognitive capability at their disposal too.
 
I'd much rather go for disruption than try to fight fire with fire on that front. I am thoroughly uninterested in having this be a story about precog fights.
 
It's just been disorienting hearing something that sounds like "I want to write a story about people who are better than that" and seeing a story about people who are worse.
Hah. Yes, I suppose the key distinction is perspective. I know what I'm writing; I could only infer what P5 was meant to be, going off the first few hours of the game.

Though I could point out that it started with the protagonist being exiled from home for the sin of attempting to help someone, and…

Could you imagine Midori doing that?

I don't want a story about that! Precog 5 means the skill starts dragging the story in two directions I don't want, instead of just one.
That's good, as I doubt I could write that story. I would need to veto the training vote. :whistle:
 
Could you imagine Midori doing that?
Yes, actually.

Especially if that "someone" was Kana (or maybe Aoi or Naomi) and Amu finds herself on the hook for aiding and abetting in the murder of government officers, even if it wasn't true.

Even in the context this quest, where Amu has psionics and could otherwise force her version of the narrative into her mother's head psychically to show her it wasn't true, in the case that Amu is actually arrested and picked up by JPs first, they'd probably slap the psionic-equivalent of handcuffs onto her and stop her from using any psychic powers to "prove" her innocence that way (which is fair enough, I mean just imagine putting a mind controller in front of a court when they can use their powers).

JP's prosecutors would then drag into the open all of Amu's past fights with Easter and people like Lulu and Utau*. And then bring in Kana's mother to detail all the killings that Amu's friend had previously participated in, painting Amu as a deliquent who habitually gets into fights and abuses her supernatural powers and has now finally gone too far and joined a gang of killers. They would further bring up the fact that she has a split personality - 4 of them - and is therefore, additionally, mentally unstable and a danger to society.

By the end of it, Amu's mother would be completely dismayed and probably reasonably ready to believe her daughter was completely out of control and mentally ill and needed to be handed over to specialists with experience in psychic powers for treatment and who could teach her how to safely use and control them and not go around regularly mind controlling people on the streets with beams of psychic energy.

Her first reaction might be denial and disbelief, but realistically, this is going to be a trial that lasts at least good few weeks if not months, leaving plenty of time for her mother to look back upon the evidence presented and realized that - oh dear - Amu had, in fact, been getting into fights since her elementary school days. Amu herself would probably have limited opportunity to convince her mother otherwise, as she would probably be isolated in a JP's holding cell from the point of her arrest due to her psychic powers. Any visits from her mother would be behind a glass screen, likely flanked by guards.

Now, unlike what I assume the protagonist of P5 got, I figure that Amu would probably have a decent lawyer, as I assume that Tsukasa and possibly Easter would shell out the money for one as a favor to Amu herself. But even her crack lawyer isn't going to be to hide that fact that Amu having 4 Charas is not normal, even by Chara-user standards, and that she was definitely hanging around and being friendly with Kana and Naomi - even if they can successfully cover up the fact that Amu knew anything about them being killers, until whatever incident landed her in hot water.

In fact, Amu having a crack lawyer would probably be the only reason she even gets probation instead of jail time for helping a murderer.

But it wouldn't un-ring the bell that JP's prosecutors had rung in airing all her dirty laundry.

And if Tsukasa then said he knew a guy who lived in a coffee shop who could help to rehabilitate Amu and had experience treating psychologically unstable psychics, I can see Midori thinking it would be for the best if Amu went to him to serve out her probationary sentence.

Especially since there is another, younger child in her household who she wouldn't want turning out like Amu.

* I'm assuming the scenario is something like the "initially planned" storyline, where JP's was called in by Manticore to help hunt down the Scavengers and is not on good terms with Amu. Obviously, as the quest currently stands, Amu has Lulu (and by extension, Hotsuin) vouching for her and also her public demon-hunter reputation meaning JP's would be unlikely to go for a full prosecution off the bat, even if Manticore were urging them to do so.
 
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I think you're giving Midori way too little credit there
I think Midori would have to have Integrity at 3 dots or higher to be stubborn enough that, after being shown that her daughter was capable of brainwashing and mind controlling people, she still wouldn't have the slightest sliver of doubt about Amu ever using that power on her.

I don't think Midori has 3+ dots in Integrity.

I think she would get scared when told her daughter has been brainwashing people, especially when they put Saaya on the stand and she relates her experiences to the courtroom.
 
I think Midori would have to have Integrity at 3 dots or higher to be stubborn enough that, after being shown that her daughter was capable of brainwashing and mind controlling people, she still wouldn't have the slightest sliver of doubt about Amu ever using that power on her.
There is a huge difference between having "the slightest sliver of doubt" and what you describe one post earlier, which is Midori being lead around so effectively it never even occurs to her that her own daughter might have her own side to this story. I think that underrates her both as a mother, and as a professional journalist.
 
There is a huge difference between having "the slightest sliver of doubt" and what you describe one post earlier, which is Midori being lead around so effectively it never even occurs to her that her own daughter might have her own side to this story.
Amu's side of the story is going to be insisting that Kana and her crew were good people who deserved to be helped, despite being murderers. Because that's what she believes and she won't lie about that to her mother, even if her lawyer will instruct her to pretend to the court that she never knew about the Scavengers' illicit activities, until the point she got caught with them leaning over a dead body.

From what has been shown so far, this is not a story that will inspire confidence in Midori and it will make her severely question her daughter's judgment.

This is going to be compounded when Amu has been revealed as having 4 split personalities in addition to her base one, ontop of her regularly going out and blasting people with heart beams in the past. And then people like Saaya indicating that Amu is constantly brainwashing people around her on a regular basis, such that nobody notices when she does anything odd.

Midori will certainly want to believe her daughter didn't know what she was doing, but when the "best case" for pleading innocence is being too young to control your powers ontop of being mentally unwell, due to having a dissassociative identity disorder?

I say there's a good chance she will legitimately believe the best outcome for Amu's would be to seek help at an external facility specializing in such disorders, because she won't have the expertise to deal with it, especially if she has to fear a brainwashing aura from Amu affecting her, her husband and Ami the whole while.
 
blasting people with heart beams
I feel like in the above writeup you have forgotten the positive context of these actions taken, ones that Utau and Hikaru can corroborate? From there you can reasonably spin Amu's actions as Easter 2.0 beyond the point where such extrapolation made sense.

While it's been a while, I recall that previously Amu and Midori had enough Intimacy dots that they couldn't disengage from the hard conversations about these topics - wouldn't it be the same in that scenario?
 
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