Shards of a Broken Sun [Megaten/Shugo Chara/Exalted]

[PistachioCookies]

This would be a prime time to say "Akane" instead of "Kana", but she doesn't. That might suggest some things about how this side of Kana thinks of herself. It might also be a sign that "Nanami Kana" is her actual full name.

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OK, I amend my previous theory - Yui's not the (only) one who had botched soul surgery done on her.

I think Kana's had it done on her (too).

This Shadow Self calling herself Kana probably came from a girl called Kana Nanami and got implanted into the body of Akane, with mixed results. The other shadow that was trying to kill her before Naoto fried it was probably spawned by the body's original occupier, Akane.

I'm guessing it's been the Shadow in the driver's seat the majority of the time, explaining why Kana has always been so attracted to Amu and why their minds melded so easily - Shadows are attracted to Shadows.

"She's right behind me. And if you stay here then Kana will be angry," she continued—her voice sounding a little firmer and more confident, though only by a tiny amount. "Really angry."

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Kana's probably speaking about herself in the third person.

I believe this is indication that she knows it's going to come down to a massive argument/fight when Akane shows up in hot pursuit. Akane hass probably been trying to purge the Kana personality for a while, explaining why the domain is so unstable and tearing itself apart.

The question is how to handle the situation.

We get exactly one question.

Is there any way to keep the Shadow pacified and gain its agreement to allow us to handle Akane with that one question?

If we mess it up, we will likely be having to fight both Kana and Akane to stop them from killing each other.

 

[quantum lurker]

Is there any way to keep the Shadow pacified and gain its agreement to allow us to handle Akane with that one question?

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I don't have a working crystal ball or Precog 5, so if your scenario is accurate (I doubt it) we'd better bunker down for a fight?

 

[Quine]

[X] Defend Kana
-[X] From... herself? From both herselves?
-[X] Amu: Whatever this place has done to her, this is still your friend. And with all the time you've spend tangled up in her thoughts, you may be the worlds greatest expert on Nanami Kana. Try to help her come to terms with herself, preferably without a fight. If that fails, at least try to keep them from killing each other.

I don't want to go into more specifics than this. Amu will be in a better position to apply her knowledge and react to circumstances than we are. We haven't even seen what's coming yet.

This Shadow Self calling herself Kana probably came from a girl called Kana Nanami and got implanted into the body of Akane, with mixed results. The other shadow that was trying to kill her before Naoto fried it was probably spawned by the body's original occupier, Akane.

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There were two little girls and one big scary thing in that scene. The big scary thing was looming over the other girl, not the one we're talking to.

 

[quantum lurker]

Any ideas about how to delay things (deniably would be a bonus) so that someone in the party can get more questions off? My idea of using the Abandoned Labatory as a time sink just evaporated, but perhaps there are more Shadows we can fight deeper in if we manage to successfully divert Kana away from Shadow!Kana?

The other shadow that was trying to kill her before Naoto fried it was probably spawned by the body's original occupier, Akane.

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It does, though Naoto smacked the shadow that was there with a bolt of lightning and it sort of evaporated, as did the little girl. Analysis pending; Rise isn't here.

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I think you are misinterpreting things, unless we were seeing Kana's 'Shadow' in the Abandoned Labaratory the entire time?

I don't want to go into more specifics than this.

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- By default neither Amu nor Utau will be very effective.

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We kind of do, though? At minimum we need to make sure no one in our party or Shadow!Kana get Mind Crush'd by asking Naoto to help with that?

 

[PistachioCookies]

There were two little girls and one big scary thing in that scene. The big scary thing was looming over the other girl, not the one we're talking to.

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If the cowering girl was Akane then the thing Naoto fried would've been spawned by Kana. The place tearing itself apart means they're both probably trying to kill each other, after all. It's not going to be all one-sided.

 

[quantum lurker]

If the cowering girl was Akane then the thing Naoto fried would've been spawned by Kana.

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Nope, it's probably Yui:

-Yui screamed, a small sound that melted the fog from the air surrounding her-

-and the shadow looming behind the child raised a sharp claw to cut through the girl's head in a single motion-

"Yui!" screamed Amu, eyes wide with shock. They had to-

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Also, does the Abandoned Labaratory even still exist anymore?

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It does, though Naoto smacked the shadow that was there with a bolt of lightning and it sort of evaporated, as did the little girl. Analysis pending; Rise isn't here.

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[PistachioCookies]

Nope, it's probably Yui:

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Utau's seen Yui by this point.

A small girl, etched in perfect clarity. A girl no older than five years old, clad in a dirty red dress. Black hair reaching halfway down her back and tangled by neglect. One of her sleeves was torn off at the shoulder, the other stretched beyond repair and bearing the unsettling imprints of something grabbing hold of it.

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If that had been Yui, she would have recognized her. She didn't, so it probably isn't Yui. If it had been Kana, she probably would've recognized her too (heck, she did recognize the other one as being Kana).

Since she didn't recognize it as being either, it's probably "someone else".

There's limited number of potential possibilities for who it could be if it didn't look like Yui or Kana. And the most likely possibility I can see is "Akane".

 

[quantum lurker]

If that had been Yui, she would have recognized her. She didn't, so it probably isn't Yui.

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as her perspective was yanked away from her. One moment she was looking at the scene before her; the next, Shirogane had done something and a pillar of lightning as thick as her waist had enveloped the shadow.

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Counterpoint: Not enough time to recognise anything because of abruptness?

 

[PistachioCookies]

Counterpoint: Not enough time to recognise anything because of abruptness?

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We can just ask the QM, I guess.

@Baughn - How much of the girl being menaced by the shadow did Utau see? Does she remember what it was wearing or the color of its hair?

 

[PistachioCookies]

Utau hadn't been able to see, but she was fairly sure she had faded away along with the shadow. Had it been a girl? She wasn't sure.

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Thinking about it, since it's heavily hinted that the "girl" was part of the shadow menacing her (that the whole thing was one big cognitive construct), it might not actually matter much who the girl is.

Chances are, the whole construct is just an allusion to Kana's drawing:

The drawing was a stark contrast to the cheerful atmosphere of Kana's room. It depicted a shadowy figure, edges blurred and merging with a chaotic background of dark, swirling colours. The figure stood alone, outline sharp yet fragmented, as if pieced back together from shattered glass. In one hand, it held something resembling a knife, but the lines were smudged, making it seem like an extension of the figure itself, another fragment of the whole.

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Which would make the menacing shadow a representation of Kana herself. With the purpose of the whole construct probably being to traumatize and guilt-trip her by reminding her that she harmed some victim in the past, possibly via botched soul surgery. That victim could be anybody, including Yui and Kana herself.

That unfortunately leaves us with no idea of who Shadow Kana's pursuer is. I'm still leaning to it being "Akane", but it could admittedly also be Yui or even Naomi.

.....I don't see much way to be able to defuse the impending fight with just a single question. The current vote to defend Kana is probably the most sensible option given the current conditions.

 

[Skelm]

That unfortunately leaves us with no idea of who Shadow Kana's pursuer is. I'm still leaning to it being "Akane", but it could admittedly also be Yui or even Naomi.

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The obvious answer to me is that this whole tangent about soul transplants is wrong, and Shadow Kana is just being pursued by regular Kana, as reflects the typical relationship between people and their Shadows.

 

[PistachioCookies]

The obvious answer to me is that this whole tangent about soul transplants is wrong, and Shadow Kana is just being pursued by regular Kana, as reflects the typical relationship between people and their Shadows.

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Shadows don't lie in Persona canon.

If it called itself "Kana", that means the Shadow belongs (or belonged) to someone called Kana. Now it is possible that it wasn't strictly lying, just whimsical enough to use a nickname but this last sentence:

"She's right behind me. And if you stay here then Kana will be angry," she continued—her voice sounding a little firmer and more confident, though only by a tiny amount. "Really angry."

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Looks like some intentional misdirection by the QM, to make people assume that the pursuer is also "Kana", when it is in fact the Shadow referring to itself in the third person and warning everyone that she's about to bulk up and get nasty.

And if it isn't just the Shadow giving herself a nickname, that means either the Akane that Hinamori met lied about her real name being Akane.

Or else Shadow Kana isn't Akane's own shadow, but somehow ended up stuck near her anyway.

.....Though now that I go back and re-read Kana's introduction...

"Oh, uh, you can call me Kana if you want. That's what Naomi and the others call me, and I almost forgot it isn't really my name, and... oh, you didn't actually say your name, did you? Um, well, you said it in your head, and—"

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.....could be the other way around, actually.

Could be that Akane was implanted into Kana's body and it's usually her in the driver's seat. And that Naomi and the others knew Kana before the transplant and so keep calling her that, either believing, or encouraging or hoping for the Kana personality dominating over Akane. Which it may sometimes do to the point Akane forgets her name.

 

[Skelm]

I would not consider calling yourself by a nickname to be any level of "lying", or even particularly unusual

 

[PistachioCookies]

I would not consider calling yourself by a nickname to be any level of "lying", or even particularly unusual

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Consider that Akane introduced herself to Amu as "Akane" rather than "Kana" though.

You'd think her Shadow would do the same to Naoto.

 

[Skelm]

I think you are reading way too much into that choice of words. Sometimes people just say stuff, and then later say slightly different stuff, and there's no deeper meaning to it than that.

 

[PistachioCookies]

I think you are reading way too much into that choice of words. Sometimes people just say stuff, and then later say slightly different stuff, and there's no deeper meaning to it than that.

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Maybe.

But also....

"I'm... Kana?" she said finally, looking a little lost. "Nanami Kana? I- I can't really explain! I just know! I'm so glad you came!"

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This Shadow seems rather uncertain about things. It "can't really explain" how it knows its name is "Kana".

It just "knows".

If it struggles to remember its own name, the unbidden answer coming to it being "Kana" rather than "Akane" seems rather suspicious. Would the nickname be the first thing to come to mind if it had trouble remembering its name?

.....Well. Maybe.

 

[Quine]

@PistachioCookies, please try not to overcommit to your theory. You have a history of overcommitting, and your theories don't have a good track record.

The obvious answer to me is that this whole tangent about soul transplants is wrong, and Shadow Kana is just being pursued by regular Kana, as reflects the typical relationship between people and their Shadows.

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I kind of suspect what's coming might be Kana's persona, but that's just one possibility.

I wish we had more to go on. We keep having to make decisions without information.

 

[PistachioCookies]

please try not to overcommit to your theory. You have a history of overcommitting, and your theories don't have a good track record.

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I am not overcommitting - that would be me making a vote based on my theory.

I agreed that with the current lack of information, the best course is probably just to fight it out.

Though even if my theory is correct, it's not really actionable either way.

And I will also point out that having a theory is better than not having one at all, regardless of the track record.

 

[quantum lurker]

Skelm, do you mind adding a question to ask Shadow!Kana: "Are Kana and Akane the same person" or thereabouts to get this settled (Pistachio, any suggestions that won't backfire if your theory is unfounded)?

it is in fact the Shadow referring to itself in the third person and warning everyone that she's about to bulk up and get nasty.

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Suppose that is the case. Why, exactly would the Shadow give us said warning, instead of just rejoining the greater whole for a surprise attack?
Or why would said Shadow attack us anyway, if you think it's because Amu is Shadow catnip?

This Shadow seems rather uncertain about things. It "can't really explain" how it knows its name is "Kana".

It just "knows".

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Well, this could equally be indicative of Shadows instinctively knowing the name of their owner because of small letter magic and reasons?

 

[PistachioCookies]

Suppose that is the case. Why, exactly would the Shadow give us said warning, instead of just rejoining the greater whole for a surprise attack?
Or why would said Shadow attack us anyway, if you think it's because Amu is Shadow catnip?

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The Shadow wouldn't attack us. It likes "Amu-chan" very much.

I imagine the warning is so Amu doesn't get caught in the crossfire when they start throwing hands.

 

[quantum lurker]

On a side note: Any ideas as to how to make the (probably inevitable) fight easier to go through/shorter on Kana's end?

As you already know, I wanted to buy time to help guide Kana through things without explicitly mentioning anything, but since that seems unviable are there any other ways to do so?

 

[PistachioCookies]

Skelm, do you mind adding a question to ask Shadow!Kana: "Are Kana and Akane the same person" or thereabouts to get this settled (Pistachio, any suggestions that won't backfire if your theory is unfounded)?

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There's no real way to act upon it at this point, even if my theory was right. Say I'm right and the pursuer incoming is Akane's Shadow, what would that change?

On a side note: Any ideas as to how to make the (probably inevitable) fight easier to go through/shorter on Kana's end?

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Hit everyone with Heart Beams.

YMMV on the ethics of applying UMI to Shadow Selves. Some might argue that such an artificially induced "change of heart" is no better than brainwashing.

 

[PistachioCookies]

I kind of suspect what's coming might be Kana's persona, but that's just one possibility.

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From my understanding of the description of mind mechanics, small-letter personas are meant to be a person's "usual self" (i.e. when non-Shadow Yukiko got dragged into her own castle and imprisoned by Shadow Yukiko, that "real" non-Shadow Yukiko was persona-Yukiko).

So if whatever is coming is small-letter persona-Kana, that would be the "normal" way these things go. That would be the "real" Kana confronting her Shadow Self in the same process Naoto is familiar with.

This could be the case. An alternate theory to explain the name discrepancy would be that "Kana" IS Kana's real name and that "Akane" is fake, the name she was brainwashed by Manticore into thinking was her real name back when her memory was wiped (which, for some reason, Naomi and co. found out and started using anyway).

Whether it is or isn't, I guess we won't know until we actually see the one pursuing the Shadow. And I don't see a way to stop the Shadow from going aggro in a single question or two (and I doubt anybody wants to hit it with a Heart Beam pre-emptively) so.....

[X] Defend Kana
-[X] From... herself? From both herselves?
-[X] Amu: Whatever this place has done to her, this is still your friend. And with all the time you've spend tangled up in her thoughts, you may be the worlds greatest expert on Nanami Kana. Try to help her come to terms with herself, preferably without a fight. If that fails, at least try to keep them from killing each other.

Skelm, do you mind adding a question to ask Shadow!Kana: "Are Kana and Akane the same person" or thereabouts to get this settled (Pistachio, any suggestions that won't backfire if your theory is unfounded)?

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I suspect if we tried asking this, the same amnesia that caused the Shadow to be uncertain of her name would only result in an "I dunno".

I suspect that would be the case for many of the questions we might potentially want to ask.

 

[quantum lurker]

And I don't see a way to stop the Shadow from going aggro in a single question or two (and I doubt anybody wants to hit it with a Heart Beam pre-emptively) so.....

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I want to send Shadow!Kana away with Naoto (who is confirmed to be unlikely to be detected by Kana) so we get more time to talk to Kana first; then pick her back up afterwards and/or leave them to talk things out alone if appropriate, but send them where?

I suspect that would be the case for many of the questions we might potentially want to ask.

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I guess we could ask about how you got stuck in (wherever you were previously), and/or about the descriptions of the surroundings there? No immediate utility, but good for the update after this if thing go well.

 

[PistachioCookies]

I want to send Shadow!Kana away with Naoto (who is confirmed to be unlikely to be detected by Kana) so we get more time to talk to Kana first; then pick her back up afterwards and/or leave them to talk things out alone if appropriate, but send them where?

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I think Naoto is expecting this to go the "normal way", in which case she'd probably actually want to make them confront each other.

She's very gung-ho about this approach, understandably so, as the Investigation Team has been very successful whenever it has been tried. Look at her words when convincing Midori about the effectiveness:

"Sure enough to be risking my life," Shirogane replied after a moment or so. "It's never failed us in the past. Except once, and that boy was-" She grimaced. "I doubt we'll see a repeat. However, we'd need to first make our way through the castle. It's a labyrinth, and as you've seen, not the type you can map."

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Girl would put her neck on the chopping block for it. Can't get a bigger guarantee than that.

I assume the one boy she mentioned it didn't work on was Mitsuo Kubo, and that guy was also a murderer who killed a man for the publicity.

My guess is, if we voted for Naoto to take the lead and it was a Kana-meets-Kana situation, the reason Amu and Utau would not be effective is because after failing to persuade them to accept each other, the Shadow would aggro itself and then Naoto would immediately move to start beating the Shadow into submission.

This is an activity which Amu and Utau would understandably have serious reservations about joining in on.

I don't think Naoto would be receptive to running off with the Shadow. If it were done, it would probably have to be done by Amu and Kana.