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Rings and Grudges (A LOTR/Warhammer Fantasy Crossover)

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[X] Take his hand: (+3 to all Dawi guild Appeasement) (-4 relations with Rosse-Lond) (He'll learn his lesson he might hold a grudge though during his reign and withhold on fully supporting the alliance, though at least he might stop gambling with his treasury)
[X] Directed Dawi vengeance: The Umgi merchants started this and it will end with them, no other umgi need pay. (+2 to all Dawi guild Appeasement) (Minor penalties to your relations with Gondor due to killing their merchants)
 
[X] Take his hand: (+3 to all Dawi guild Appeasement) (-4 relations with Rosse-Lond) (He'll learn his lesson he might hold a grudge though during his reign and withhold on fully supporting the alliance, though at least he might stop gambling with his treasury)
[X] Directed Dawi vengeance: The Umgi merchants started this and it will end with them, no other umgi need pay. (+2 to all Dawi guild Appeasement) (Minor penalties to your relations with Gondor due to killing their merchants)

(In hindsight, this is better than what I made, also DM, honor to your ancestors, I knew I recognized that name)
 
Hmmm. Not sure if taking the hand is too much? They did insult us so it's definitely a grudging. On the other not chopped off hand he didn't kill or injure any dawi. I'm leaning towards a beating just because we like his parents.
 
[X] Take his hand: (+3 to all Dawi guild Appeasement) (-4 relations with Rosse-Lond) (He'll learn his lesson he might hold a grudge though during his reign and withhold on fully supporting the alliance, though at least he might stop gambling with his treasury)
[X] Directed Dawi vengeance: The Umgi merchants started this and it will end with them, no other umgi need pay. (+2 to all Dawi guild Appeasement) (Minor penalties to your relations with Gondor due to killing their merchants)
 
[X] Beat him black and Blue: (-2 to all Dawi guild Appeasement) (-3 relations with Rosse-Lond) (You might teach him a lesson and set him straight)
[X] Directed Dawi vengeance: The Umgi merchants started this and it will end with them, no other umgi need pay. (+2 to all Dawi guild Appeasement) (Minor penalties to your relations with Gondor due to killing their merchants)

-2 + 2 for 0 Guild appeasement lost.
-3 raltions with Rosse-Lond
Minor penalties with Gondor

This is bad all round, I think these 2 minimize the negatives the best.
 
[X] Take his hand: (+3 to all Dawi guild Appeasement) (-4 relations with Rosse-Lond) (He'll learn his lesson he might hold a grudge though during his reign and withhold on fully supporting the alliance, though at least he might stop gambling with his treasury)
[X] Directed Dawi vengeance: The Umgi merchants started this and it will end with them, no other umgi need pay. (+2 to all Dawi guild Appeasement) (Minor penalties to your relations with Gondor due to killing their merchants)
 
[X] Take his hand: (+3 to all Dawi guild Appeasement) (-4 relations with Rosse-Lond) (He'll learn his lesson he might hold a grudge though during his reign and withhold on fully supporting the alliance, though at least he might stop gambling with his treasury)
[X] Directed Dawi vengeance: The Umgi merchants started this and it will end with them, no other umgi need pay. (+2 to all Dawi guild Appeasement) (Minor penalties to your relations with Gondor due to killing their merchants)

ancestors giveth so can ancestors taketh in full
 
For the Dawi, respect is very important.
Its not the amount of money that matters. It could 1 copper or 1000 gold, the insult would be equally grave either way.

If you view it from the perspective of monetary value this situation seems petty and overblown.
But from the perspective of the Dawi it demonstrates a lack of respect, a breaking of ones word, an insult to the Alliance and a tarnishing of oaths made.

If he had been respectful, pleaded his case or acted with respect and humility none of this would have happened.
 
Can we write in? Because an alternative would be removing his tongue and teeth for lying to us and a finger for each reckoner he tossed out.



Less crippling than losing a hand but still crippling for someone intending to rule.



"Never again shall lies spill forth from your mouth, never shall your fingers write falsehoods for others to read. Be glad Umgi, for this is me being merciful.... You are only losing what permitted your crime after all."
 
lockingbane said:
Can we write in? Because an alternative would be removing his tongue and teeth for lying to us and a finger for each reckoner he tossed out.



Less crippling than losing a hand but still crippling for someone intending to rule.



"Never again shall lies spill forth from your mouth, never shall your fingers write falsehoods for others to read. Be glad Umgi, for this is me being merciful.... You are only losing what permitted your crime after all."
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. . .That is far more brutal and slightly sadistic...I can only imagine that it will give much more minus relationships and even guild will be like: What the hell?!
 
Gabriel_TFA said:
. . .That is far more brutal and slightly sadistic...I can only imagine that it will give much more minus relationships and even guild will be like: What the hell?!
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Eh it feels like a dwarven punishment and it won't impact his ability to live his life.

It ensures he cannot speak any lies, makes it clear his actions have consequences, and given this is Warhammer dwarves.... Well the punishment could be much worse.


If we weren't allied I would have suggested making him drink molten gold equal to the debt as he clearly valued the gold more than his life.


As is ensuring he can never speak a lie again is fitting though I SUPPOSE we should have good enough medics we could surgically silence him by removing his vocal cords.




Edit: Like a lot of you seen to be underestimating how much the loss of a hand cripples someone in this era.


Loss of tongue and teeth are a lot less debilitating physically AND it serves as a very potent symbolic consequence
 
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lockingbane said:
Can we write in? Because an alternative would be removing his tongue and teeth for lying to us and a finger for each reckoner he tossed out.
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Honestly, it could be and Dawi would probably not even blink given just where their from, a touch extreme but then again if your sending a message it would be possible. as for the effects +4 dawi guild appeasement and -5 relations with Rosse lond.
 
Mad0Slayer said:
Honestly, it could be and Dawi would probably not even blink given just where their from, a touch extreme but then again if your sending a message it would be possible. as for the effects +4 dawi guild appeasement and -5 relations with Rosse lond.
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Not bad.


Anything for the symbology of it?


Gabriel_TFA said:
What an actual fuck...teeth cannot regrow, especially a tongue. Like...I am disturbed.
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And a hand can?


Also you forget these are Warhammer dwarves. They ain't exactly the kindest race. They are respectful and honorable when treated fairly and with respect but they are also vengeful to the extreme.... Like "Would happily commit genocide on an entire ethnic group if they piss them off enough" vengeful.



Vengeance and Grudges, Honor and Legacy, Respect and Memory.... That is the Warhammer dwarf way
 
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Gabriel_TFA said:
What an actual fuck...teeth cannot regrow, especially a tongue. Like...I am disturbed.
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That's because it is, sadly the rather sadistic torture methods from antiquity kind of make things sick and sadly would probably be a bit more common in the old world. As for loosing a Tonque and teeth that is true but prosthetics or crude replacements are possible for the teeth, makes things hell of a hard to live but at least they can keep going. In all honestly both are a terrible loss and brutal in equal aspects, though the making him mute is by far an extreme action.

As for why dawi wouldn't blink and I'm pretty sure I read they killed a family 100+ years after the grudge occurred.
 
[X] Take his hand: (+3 to all Dawi guild Appeasement) (-4 relations with Rosse-Lond) (He'll learn his lesson he might hold a grudge though during his reign and withhold on fully supporting the alliance, though at least he might stop gambling with his treasury)
[X] Directed Dawi vengeance: The Umgi merchants started this and it will end with them, no other umgi need pay. (+2 to all Dawi guild Appeasement) (Minor penalties to your relations with Gondor due to killing their merchants)
 
[X] Beat him black and Blue: (-2 to all Dawi guild Appeasement) (-3 relations with Rosse-Lond) (You might teach him a lesson and set him straight)
[X] Directed Dawi vengeance: The Umgi merchants started this and it will end with them, no other umgi need pay. (+2 to all Dawi guild Appeasement) (Minor penalties to your relations with Gondor due to killing their merchants)

lets not fuck up our alliance setting the boy
straight is inough But the merchants do need to pay seeing they are the source of it

I dont want to make our situation worse because of that nat 1 besides i think people see this as a chance to up Appeasement instead of looking at the big picture
 
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[X] Beat him black and Blue: (-2 to all Dawi guild Appeasement) (-3 relations with Rosse-Lond) (You might teach him a lesson and set him straight)
[X] Directed Dawi vengeance: The Umgi merchants started this and it will end with them, no other umgi need pay. (+2 to all Dawi guild Appeasement) (Minor penalties to your relations with Gondor due to killing their merchants)
 
[X] Beat him black and Blue: (-2 to all Dawi guild Appeasement) (-3 relations with Rosse-Lond) (You might teach him a lesson and set him straight)
[X] Directed Dawi vengeance: The Umgi merchants started this and it will end with them, no other umgi need pay. (+2 to all Dawi guild Appeasement) (Minor penalties to your relations with Gondor due to killing their merchants

Also, let's stealthily visit again when his parents return, right before he can complain, to remind abou us watching. Always watching.
And then visit his parents and friendly discuss Dwarven traditions
 
[X] Beat him black and Blue: (-2 to all Dawi guild Appeasement) (-3 relations with Rosse-Lond) (You might teach him a lesson and set him straight)
[X] Directed Dawi vengeance: The Umgi merchants started this and it will end with them, no other umgi need pay. (+2 to all Dawi guild Appeasement) (Minor penalties to your relations with Gondor due to killing their merchants)
 
[X] Beat him black and Blue: (-2 to all Dawi guild Appeasement) (-3 relations with Rosse-Lond) (You might teach him a lesson and set him straight)
[X] Directed Dawi vengeance: The Umgi merchants started this and it will end with them, no other umgi need pay. (+2 to all Dawi guild Appeasement) (Minor penalties to your relations with Gondor due to killing their merchants

I change my vote to this centergg makes a good point
 
[X] Kill him: (+6 to all Dawi guild Appeasement) (-6 relations with Rosse-Lond) (They have a spare and he is useless; might as well save them the trouble) (Your Alliance will remain but it will be strained)
[X] Scorched Earth: The umgi dare insult you, well, enough is enough. It is time for this world to understand what it means to anger the Dawi, all umgi who have insulted you and shortchanged you are to be hunted down and killed and their ships burned(+7 to all Dawi guild Appeasement) (Your relationship with Rosse-Lond will be hurt and severely damaged with Gondor.) (-2 relations with Rosse-Lond and -3 with Gondor)
 
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