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Ring-Maker [Worm/Lord of the Rings Alt-Power] [Complete]

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Lithos Maitreya said:
Should I add a line, do you think? I suppose it might add to the sense of power, if I did it right.
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DestinyPlayer said:
Personally, I think that the best way to do so would be to show Heartbreaker rapidly increase his concentration, while also slowly descending into horror. All while Taylor herself ignores everything.
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Something like this, yes. Having Annatar not notice at all is fine. She's singularly focused, and while she might have thought ahead about how immune she would be...

...actually, that's one thing you may want to consider. Why was Heartbreaker's fear-causing scion able to affect her when Heartbreaker himself could not?

Anyway. Show it in Heartbreaker's actions. When he's holding Battery hostage, he seems calmly in control, but let's be honest: he should have not felt the need to hold her hostage if he thought he was influencing Annatar. By the point he felt the need to hold a hostage, he should be nervous. And he should be more confused and worried as Annatar continues to not be Mastered.

Oh, that might work: going back to the kid, have Annatar comment on how strange she finds it that this fear is impacting her. How it would paralyze, even petrify lesser beings if it is slowing her as much as it is. The boy must be capable of levels of terror so far beyond the emotions his father can generate, or even Cherish could stir, due to their focus on just that one emotion. So strong that it may even shake the Maia.

It's a good opportunity to build up the kid AND the Rings that defeat him, while setting the ground for Heartbreaker doing NOTHING.
 
Now that I look at it again, Armsmaster's actions do seem unreasonable. I mean I can see him expressing those sentiments, but in a private setting with the director before doing something so drastic. Maybe he really is unders someone's influence in one way or another.

Please don't make this the Simrurg's plot. Just don't.
 
I think that the main problem Armsmaster has isn't that Annatar has changed, but that she has somehow managed to get the entire PRT on board with her with such ridiculous ease. He's afraid that she's, maybe even unknowingly, mastering everybody and so he decided to get away from there just in case.
 
WanderingAirhead said:
Now that I look at it again, Armsmaster's actions do seem unreasonable. I mean I can see him expressing those sentiments, but in a private setting with the director before doing something so drastic. Maybe he really is unders someone's influence in one way or another.

Please don't make this the Simrurg's plot. Just don't.
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DestinyPlayer said:
I think that the main problem Armsmaster has isn't that Annatar has changed, but that she has somehow managed to get the entire PRT on board with her with such ridiculous ease. He's afraid that she's, maybe even unknowingly, mastering everybody and so he decided to get away from there just in case.
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I'd also note that from my perspective it almost seems like this kind of thing fits with his canon flaws. His reasoning seems somewhat similar at least.
 
... God dammit Taylor. Why you gotta prove Emma right? You're a smart girl/dark-lord/maia. You should know that any action that could conceivably end in Emma being right about something is the wrong thing to do.
 
When they first met Annatar, Armsmaster and director Piggot discovered that one of her rings had a mild Shaker effect very similar to Glory Girl's awe aura, pluys Dragon noted subtle changes in her posture and diction when she was trying to convince people of something. After a second trigger, they could become so much more powerful and effective enough to qualify as a Master power, while the ENE department isn't prepared for anything more than what Annatar was originally capable of.
 
That was certainly a Shadow of Mordor-like fight. Focused, brutal, and ending in everyone notable either on your side, dead or wishing they were dead.

Heartbreaker is Broken.
 
Lithos Maitreya said:
"Our heroes were all recovered safely," Miss Militia reported. "No casualties."
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Okay, so "casualties" doesn't just mean fatalities. Velocity getting his hand crushed is a casualty. Battery taking a lightning bolt is a casualty. Triumph wouldn't be a casualty if he's still fit to fight. "No fatalities" is accurate here.

Lithos Maitreya said:
"I was watching the Wards' helmet cams during this mission—the assault on Heartbreaker," Armsmaster continued. "I saw Annatar's behavior. I'm going to the Chief Director and Legend about it—and I don't feel I can do it from inside the ENE branch right now."

I glanced at Alexandria. Her eyes met mine, and I saw the ghost of a smile on her lips.
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Annatar just terminator-walked through everything Heartbreaker could throw at her, including just shy of half the Protectorate ENE roster, stopping at nothing to stomp some shitters.

Alexandria probably feels like she's got a new bestie. Piggot is happy she's not constantly outgunned anymore. Dragon is along for the ride whether she likes it or not. Armsmaster has bailed in protest and Miss Militia is too much of a cog to go against Piggot and Alexandria. Assault just got his wife back. Not a whole lot of people in a position to act as the brakes on this beatdown train. It's basically up to Armsmaster and Shadow Stalker, plus whoever else Annatar alienates into bailing, to stage an intervention for her.
 
I would like to state for the record that my hugs rating is for Armsmaster, Sophia and Dragon. Possibly Vista, too. She seems... concerned.

Annatar can go hang.
 
veteranMortal said:
I lost sympathy when she killed the second child she encountered with an inconvenient power.

Especially given that both times she could have subdued them non lethally.
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You might want to re-read how Shutdown died since Annatar had no conscious control of him being exploded.

Though as we saw she also didn't care so make of that what you will I guess.
 
Oh I love that she was strolling to get to Heartbreaker. She was enjoying the moment. Also how strong was that mace swing, that the boy was killed in one strike? Apart from the B-mace (I can't remember the name) being spiked and quite heavy iirc I don't think he will die so fast, unless he's younger and smaller than what I imagined.

Still brutal though. Also, one down, two more to go. The train is not stopping despite someone jumping off it.
 
The following post is mostly in response to argument on SpaceBattles, but I thought it best to post it here too, given its importance and size. Feel free to ignore it if it doesn't seem to apply to you.

There seem to be two issues.

Issue 1: Taylor's actions and to what extent they are evil.
Issue 2: Taylor's paradigm shift and to what extent it is reasonable and/or well-written.

The first issue appears to be split into three camps:

Camp 1: Taylor is behaving in a reasonable fashion, to be expected of her situation, and should be praised for her behavior. As such, Armsmaster (and possibly Sophia) are behaving reprehensibly and/or foolishly.
Camp 2: Taylor has become a truly monstrous character, to be despised and hated, and Armsmaster and Sophia are entirely justified.
Camp 3: Taylor has done wrong, but Armsmaster in particular is being stupid/OOC.

The second issue is also split into three camps:

Camp 1: Taylor's paradigm shift is poorly-written and reflects poorly on me, as the author.
Camp 2: Taylor's paradigm shift is competently-written but turns the story into an unpleasant and unenjoyable one.
Camp 3: Taylor's paradigm shift is competently-written and has has enjoyable results.

If I have been non-responsive to these issues, well, there are three reasons for that. The first is that I ain't got time for this shit. Got a midterm Wednesday evening and another Thursday at noon.

The second is more complicated. Put simply, the first issue is a moral debate, and I'm not going to get involved. It doesn't seem to be about whether the story is good, it seems to be about whether the characters are right. Which doesn't strike me as something I should be getting involved in. That's for the readers to decide.

The third is also complicated, and has to do with the second issue. I fall decidedly into camp 2 on this one. I don't like evil Annatar. I enjoyed writing the Heartbreaker beatdown, but I would rather it have been an omake without consequences. Because I also like easy-to-enjoy stories with likable protagonists, evil villains, and a clear cause the reader can get behind. But that isn't this story--not right now, and really, not ever. Annatar's always had this utilitarian streak. She's always been seeing her people as tools, although for a while--though not from the beginning--she also liked them as friends. And she still does, although I can't blame people for not seeing that. It feels like the readers are forgetting the setup from Arcs 2-4. Annatar has been established not to be a paragon.

But that begs the question, doesn't it? Just because I set up that Annatar wasn't perfect, does that really justify as big a paradigm shift as this? I mean, all else being equal, the answer is no. Clearly. If Taylor were just a human girl with a LotR-derived power, this would be stupid. But she isn't. She just started to remember and be influenced by several millennia as an unrepentant evil overlord, with only a meager fifteen years of experience as a hero. That is no comparison. Of course her fall was more rapid than would be expected--I'd go so far as to say it'd be unreasonable were it otherwise.

And yet I can't blame the people saying it's incompetently written, because maybe it is. Maybe there's a way to make it clearer exactly what's happening--to show the influence of her past as Sauron in a better way than this. Just because I don't know how to do it doesn't mean there isn't a way--and just because this is the best I can do doesn't automatically make it anywhere near good.

So, in summary, if I don't change anything in response to criticism this time as I've done in the past, it's a combination of these factors. I don't have time, I don't see the moral thing as a problem, and I don't think I can handle the paradigm shift any better.

I realize many of you will take this as an opportunity to make suggestions as to how I could better write the paradigm shift. I will read and consider these suggestions, but I would humbly request that you consider the following.

Researchers in the field of AI get messages, mail, and comments all the time suggesting that they just use Asimov's Laws of Robotics or other simple solutions in programming their AI. These suggestions are universally ignored, for reasons that are... probably obvious to you readers, as denizens of SpaceBattles and SufficientVelocity. Consider, however, that your suggestions may--I'm not saying will--be in a similar vein. If something seems obvious, that may be because it is.

I say this, not to stifle criticism, but for the same reason that I'm not jumping at the chance to edit and revise right now: I don't have time. I don't have time to filter through piles of useless ideas to find the diamond in the rough that may not even be there. So if you critics could filter your own ideas, even just a little, it would help me immensely. Thank you.

...Sorry for the long-ass post.
 
Lithos Maitreya said:
The following post is mostly in response to argument on SpaceBattles, but I thought it best to post it here too, given its importance and size. Feel free to ignore it if it doesn't seem to apply to you.

There seem to be two issues.

Issue 1: Taylor's actions and to what extent they are evil.
Issue 2: Taylor's paradigm shift and to what extent it is reasonable and/or well-written.

The first issue appears to be split into three camps:

Camp 1: Taylor is behaving in a reasonable fashion, to be expected of her situation, and should be praised for her behavior. As such, Armsmaster (and possibly Sophia) are behaving reprehensibly and/or foolishly.
Camp 2: Taylor has become a truly monstrous character, to be despised and hated, and Armsmaster and Sophia are entirely justified.
Camp 3: Taylor has done wrong, but Armsmaster in particular is being stupid/OOC.

The second issue is also split into three camps:

Camp 1: Taylor's paradigm shift is poorly-written and reflects poorly on me, as the author.
Camp 2: Taylor's paradigm shift is competently-written but turns the story into an unpleasant and unenjoyable one.
Camp 3: Taylor's paradigm shift is competently-written and has has enjoyable results.

If I have been non-responsive to these issues, well, there are three reasons for that. The first is that I ain't got time for this shit. Got a midterm Wednesday evening and another Thursday at noon.

The second is more complicated. Put simply, the first issue is a moral debate, and I'm not going to get involved. It doesn't seem to be about whether the story is good, it seems to be about whether the characters are right. Which doesn't strike me as something I should be getting involved in. That's for the readers to decide.

The third is also complicated, and has to do with the second issue. I fall decidedly into camp 2 on this one. I don't like evil Annatar. I enjoyed writing the Heartbreaker beatdown, but I would rather it have been an omake without consequences. Because I also like easy-to-enjoy stories with likable protagonists, evil villains, and a clear cause the reader can get behind. But that isn't this story--not right now, and really, not ever. Annatar's always had this utilitarian streak. She's always been seeing her people as tools, although for a while--though not from the beginning--she also liked them as friends. And she still does, although I can't blame people for not seeing that. It feels like the readers are forgetting the setup from Arcs 2-4. Annatar has been established not to be a paragon.

But that begs the question, doesn't it? Just because I set up that Annatar wasn't perfect, does that really justify as big a paradigm shift as this? I mean, all else being equal, the answer is no. Clearly. If Taylor were just a human girl with a LotR-derived power, this would be stupid. But she isn't. She just started to remember and be influenced by several millennia as an unrepentant evil overlord, with only a meager fifteen years of experience as a hero. That is no comparison. Of course her fall was more rapid than would be expected--I'd go so far as to say it'd be unreasonable were it otherwise.

And yet I can't blame the people saying it's incompetently written, because maybe it is. Maybe there's a way to make it clearer exactly what's happening--to show the influence of her past as Sauron in a better way than this. Just because I don't know how to do it doesn't mean there isn't a way--and just because this is the best I can do doesn't automatically make it anywhere near good.

So, in summary, if I don't change anything in response to criticism this time as I've done in the past, it's a combination of these factors. I don't have time, I don't see the moral thing as a problem, and I don't think I can handle the paradigm shift any better.

I realize many of you will take this as an opportunity to make suggestions as to how I could better write the paradigm shift. I will read and consider these suggestions, but I would humbly request that you consider the following.

Researchers in the field of AI get messages, mail, and comments all the time suggesting that they just use Asimov's Laws of Robotics or other simple solutions in programming their AI. These suggestions are universally ignored, for reasons that are... probably obvious to you readers, as denizens of SpaceBattles and SufficientVelocity. Consider, however, that your suggestions may--I'm not saying will--be in a similar vein. If something seems obvious, that may be because it is.

I say this, not to stifle criticism, but for the same reason that I'm not jumping at the chance to edit and revise right now: I don't have time. I don't have time to filter through piles of useless ideas to find the diamond in the rough that may not even be there. So if you critics could filter your own ideas, even just a little, it would help me immensely. Thank you.

...Sorry for the long-ass post.
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No worries! What you are writing makes sense to me, and I'll read it as you write it.
 
Lithos Maitreya said:
I raised him up, lifting him into the air above me, staring into his face. Our gazes were locked, and the fear in his was palpable. "There will be no surrender," I told him, my voice level and quiet. "It's over."
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Rereading the chapter, I came upon this paragraph.

Can you imagine, Heartbreaker the Master 9, one who was pretty much untouchable for twenty years then suddenly defeated by a slip of a girl in soot-covered armor.

He thought this will be a walk in a park, taking back his wayward child. The extra three capes were a bonus.

He was wrong. This was his one, and final mistake, crossing Annatar the Ring-Maker.
 
I personally enjoy this story in its entirety so far.
I admit some parts are harder to swallow than others, but that's why people are supposed to chew their food.
It is shown rather well that Sauron, not Taylor is in control at this point. That bit with the Gollum flashback clinches it.
I could even see a mindscape battle taking place over this issue, but that might not fit the story.
My point here is, keep doing what you're doing. This is a great story, and I love where you're going with this.
 
Goddamnit Lithos! Now I can't read the comments for fear of spoilering this piece of work! You've ruined me damnit, ruined me!
 
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