Reaching for the Stars - A Stargate Quest

[Duesal]

Yeah, that's fine. The main question is if Daniel will buy it that you don't intend to Manifest Destiny the whole galaxy.

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I'm flattered he thinks we have anywhere close to the resources for that. We don't even have a single working space ship.

Anyway:

[X] Plan: Infrastructure

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[X] Reject the deal. Jackson is not as special and valuable as he thinks he is.

[X] Plan: Infrastructure

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[X] Plan: Infrastructure

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[X] Plan: Infrastructure

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[X] Plan: Infrastructure

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[X] Plan: Infrastructure

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[X] Plan: Infrastructure

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[X] Plan: Infrastructure

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[X] Plan: Infrastructure
[x] Take the deal. The Abydonians will expect one planet to evacuate to in return for Denial Jackson joining your command.

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[X] Plan: Infrastructure

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[X] Plan: Infrastructure

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Quoting you all because you're voting for Plan: Infrastructure to alert you that this line:
[] Take the deal. The Abydonians will expect one planet to evacuate to in return for Denial Jackson joining your command.

Is being replaced with the following:

[] Take the deal. The Abydonians will expect one planet to evacuate to in return for Denial Jackson joining your command.
-[] Stipulate that, with all the best intentions, we cannot give what we do not possess, and the US Space Force has no property on any of these planets. We can at most assist the Abydonians in seeking asylum on whatever planet they choose, or, if no indigenes are initially apparent but show up later, act as mediators.

 

[Cookiesndip]

Is there a reason Infantry Weapons are still under procurement?

Anyway, I figure next turn we can get the Death Gliders, those are pretty damn important in the long run (wtb research points). Why does everyone want a geological survey anyway? Vehicles are nice in the long run, but optics procurement would be far more helpful right now, especially since it seems like a multi-stage project.

 

[Potato Anarchy]

Geological survey is a prereq for getting more vehicles and heavy equipment through the gate. Also I think helps base expansion/modification.

 

[KreenWarrior]

It's also a way to put those shiny new engineers to work.

We have a ton of good options that all need doing, I'm not really mad about anything being chosen right now.

 

[Igornerd]

-[X] Take the deal. The Abydonians will expect one planet to evacuate to in return for Denial Jackson joining your command.

[X] Plan: Infrastructure

 

[Stabbtmcstabstab]

[X] Plan: Infrastructure

 

[Wilgus04]

[X] Plan: Infrastructure

 

[Fabricati]

Geological survey is a prereq for getting more vehicles and heavy equipment through the gate. Also I think helps base expansion/modification.

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I still think this is a mistake. Even if we can get vehicles through the Stargate, most of our heavier platforms are very thirsty on the logistics. Tanks get three gallons to the mile, choppers need 10 hours of maintenance for every hour in the air, and we don't know where any particular Stargate is situated.

We should very much focus on infantry and improving infantry, since, unfortunately, this is really not something big sexy weapons can deal with.

... Given that...

[X] Plan: Research and Infantry
-[X] Take the deal. The Abydonians will expect one planet to evacuate to in return for Denial Jackson joining your command.
--[X] Stipulate that, with all the best intentions, we cannot give what we do not possess, and the US Space Force has no property on any of these planets. We can at most assist the Abydonians in seeking asylum on whatever planet they choose, or, if no indigenes are initially apparent but show up later, act as mediators.
-[X] Exploration - Sunken City Planet - SG-1
-[X] Training - SG- 3 - Medicine
-[X] Abydos - Humanitarian Aid - 1 Command Points
-[X] Abydos - Pyramid Investigation - 1 Command Points
-[X] Abydos - Pyramid Excavation - 3 Command Points
-[X] Base Improvement - Better Infirmary - 2 Command Points
-[X] Base Improvement - Biology Lab - 1 Command Points
-[X] Recruitment -- SG Team - 1 Command Point
-[X] Recruitment – Recruitment Program – 1 Command Point.

 

[Duesal]

I still think this is a mistake. Even if we can get vehicles through the Stargate, most of our heavier platforms are very thirsty on the logistics. Tanks get three gallons to the mile, choppers need 10 hours of maintenance for every hour in the air, and we don't know where any particular Stargate is situated.

We should very much focus on infantry and improving infantry, since, unfortunately, this is really not something big sexy weapons can deal with.

... Given that...

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My main thinking is that having Mining and Bunker Specialist Engineers on hand + probably getting the entire mountain and not just the lower levels is going to open a whole lot of doors with this geological survey.

Yes, we need infantry, but that infantry will be a lot more effective with vehicles to explore the other planets. The mobility increase alone makes it worthwhile.

 

[Zimmerwald1915]

*snip*

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Liking the biology lab. Throwing a vote your way.

[X] Plan: Research and Infantry

 

[Potato Anarchy]

I still think this is a mistake. Even if we can get vehicles through the Stargate, most of our heavier platforms are very thirsty on the logistics. Tanks get three gallons to the mile, choppers need 10 hours of maintenance for every hour in the air, and we don't know where any particular Stargate is situated.

We should very much focus on infantry and improving infantry, since, unfortunately, this is really not something big sexy weapons can deal with.

... Given that...

[X] Plan: Research and Infantry
-[X] Take the deal. The Abydonians will expect one planet to evacuate to in return for Denial Jackson joining your command.
--[X] Stipulate that, with all the best intentions, we cannot give what we do not possess, and the US Space Force has no property on any of these planets. We can at most assist the Abydonians in seeking asylum on whatever planet they choose, or, if no indigenes are initially apparent but show up later, act as mediators.
-[X] Exploration - Sunken City Planet - SG-1
-[X] Training - SG- 3 - Medicine
-[X] Abydos - Humanitarian Aid - 1 Command Points
-[X] Abydos - Pyramid Investigation - 2 Command Points
-[X] Abydos - Pyramid Excavation - 3 Command Points
-[X] Base Improvement - Better Infirmary - 2 Command Points
-[X] Base Improvement - Biology Lab - 2 Command Points

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I admit to being kind of confused about this talk about the importance of infantry being followed by zero investment in infantry. Why move points to the Biology Lab instead of recruiting veterans, or procuring optics or heavy weapons or man portable UAVs?

 

[Fabricati]

.... Good point, I did NOT read all actions

 

[demonthese2211]

[X] Plan: Infrastructure

It is going to be quite some time until we can actually get a city's worth of people on a planet so having a friendly population large enough to actually do significant things now more than makes up for any lost potential in the long term in my opinion.

Also @Azel very important question, what exactly is Daniel in so much denial over that he felt the need to change his name? Or has he simply taken his love for Egypt to the next level with poor spelling?

Denial Jackson

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Edit:

I still think this is a mistake. Even if we can get vehicles through the Stargate, most of our heavier platforms are very thirsty on the logistics. Tanks get three gallons to the mile, choppers need 10 hours of maintenance for every hour in the air, and we don't know where any particular Stargate is situated.

We should very much focus on infantry and improving infantry, since, unfortunately, this is really not something big sexy weapons can deal with.

Click to shrink...

While this is true and I do think infantry should be our main priority I think this is overselling the issues and underselling their utility. An Abrams gets 3 gallons to the mile sure but it also has something a 500 gallon fuel capacity. It would matter for a campaign sure but in the type of rapid slash and burn raids that are going to be our bread and butter for a good while we aren't going to be getting close to the 100-200 miles of range that gives it. The same for other vehicles. We don't need the endurance and the operational tempo of missions where they are worth using is going to be low enough that maintenance issues shouldn't be enough to outweigh their usefulness. We aren't going to be sending tanks or things like that on recon missions. But if we reconnoiter a Goa'uld base that we want to knock over having the option to send a team of Abrams along or a little bird for over watch is a power force multiplier.

 

[Duesal]

When we do invest in infantry we should really tackle setting up that program instead of individual recruitment every turn. Free specialists along with a discount on veterans is simply too good to ignore.

 

[Thrawn's hand]

[X] Plan: Infrastructure

 

[Fabricati]

An excellent point. With that in mind, and also the fact that we need at least a LITTLE field medicine so I'm not budging on THAT-- I'm making the following changes to the plan--

[X] Plan: Research and Infantry
-[X] Take the deal. The Abydonians will expect one planet to evacuate to in return for Denial Jackson joining your command.
--[X] Stipulate that, with all the best intentions, we cannot give what we do not possess, and the US Space Force has no property on any of these planets. We can at most assist the Abydonians in seeking asylum on whatever planet they choose, or, if no indigenes are initially apparent but show up later, act as mediators.
-[X] Exploration - Sunken City Planet - SG-1
-[X] Training - SG- 3 - Medicine
-[X] Abydos - Humanitarian Aid - 1 Command Points
-[X] Abydos - Pyramid Investigation - 1 Command Points
-[X] Abydos - Pyramid Excavation - 3 Command Points
-[X] Base Improvement - Better Infirmary - 2 Command Points
-[X] Base Improvement - Biology Lab - 1 Command Points
-[X] Recruitment -- SG Team - 1 Command Point
-[X] Recruitment – Recruitment Program – 1 Command Point.

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Is this spreading us a bit thin? Sure. But honestly, that's the early game in any of these plan games.

The ideal here is having two or three teams available to do Team Actions every turn, even if they end up in infirmary. Heck, maybe we can get the major to actually be a major one of these days.

 

[Fabricati]

While this is true and I do think infantry should be our main priority I think this is overselling the issues and underselling their utility. An Abrams gets 3 gallons to the mile sure but it also has something a 500 gallon fuel capacity. It would matter for a campaign sure but in the type of rapid slash and burn raids that are going to be our bread and butter for a good while we aren't going to be getting close to the 100-200 miles of range that gives it. The same for other vehicles. We don't need the endurance and the operational tempo of missions where they are worth using is going to be low enough that maintenance issues shouldn't be enough to outweigh their usefulness. We aren't going to be sending tanks or things like that on recon missions. But if we reconnoiter a Goa'uld base that we want to knock over having the option to send a team of Abrams along or a little bird for over watch is a power force multiplier.

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That's a fair point. I'm still a little worried, since for all we know right now the Goa'uld can get or have anti-tank measures easily available, and we don't currently have the infantry to support combined arms, but that's definitely a feasible scenario.

But then I'm also worried that basically everything we're doing is 50% Task Force Smith.

maybe in the near future we can get together some defined scenarios to run exercises through, but first we got a lot of catching up to do.

 

[KreenWarrior]

Tanks are more of a long-term ploy. I doubt we're going to be taking on the sort of missions that would need them immediately. But we don't want to be sitting on a mission that will need them and realizing we haven't put in the literal ground work necessary.

In the meantime, we're in Planet of the Week territory now and we don't know how closely the QM will be sticking to canon. We might have to decipher runes on an Ancient ruin or deal with a team being kidnapped and replaced by robot duplicates, or we might have to solve a giant Rubik's cube to solve the secrets of the universe or talk to a giant sentient squid. We just do the best we can to anticipate a broad variety of needs.

 

[Cookiesndip]

[X] Plan: Research and Infantry

Bare Bones

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The Space Force is tiny and most of it is centred around satellites, not ground missions far from friendly lines. You will have to build up pretty much all capabilities in that regard from the ground up, or get some aid from other branches. The requirements of secrecy might also make it difficult to obtain heavy equipment, should the need ever arise.

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Remember, we have the bare bones trait, and, due to secrecy, on top of having jack shit to start with, are going make non-researched military vehicles extra hard to get. Not really worth it when we don't even have a decent infantry complement. Also heavy weapons before vehicles is better in terms of natural escalation, since they're cheaper and easier to get.

 

[Duesal]

[X] Plan: Research and Infantry


Remember, we have the bare bones trait, and, due to secrecy, on top of having jack shit to start with, are going make vehicles extra hard to get.

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That's at least balanced out by Ample Funding.

 

[Potato Anarchy]

My command point wishlist for the short term besides finishing these projects look something like this - not prioritizing between them atm and new things will come up, but this is the stuff on the menu I'd like to get to sooner rather than later:

- Survey Mines and/or Death Glider Salvage on Abydos. Waffling on which should come first, but leaning towards Survey Mines because it has a positive trait and seems less easily replicated in the middle term if we lose access to Abydos.

- Probably within a couple turns, start on the Weapons Test Range. It has two positive traits attached now and helps with our research and firepower.

- Put Optics into one plan with one point, and then a second time if needed, to help with night raids and tunnel missions.

- Recruit a team of veterans.

- Start chipping away at the Recruitment Program

- Squeeze in the Raytheon outreach sometime.

 

[Fabricati]

Hm, that's a good point. When it comes to those two, for the forseeable future it's going to be either bio lab or weapons range, and we do sort of need the bio lab if we want to screw around with say, recruiting other Jaffa.

I do like that set of priorities, too-- weapons test would absolutely help with the other stuff, and ideally we should be getting both online...

... Choices.

 

[FullNothingness]

While this is true and I do think infantry should be our main priority I think this is overselling the issues and underselling their utility. An Abrams gets 3 gallons to the mile sure but it also has something a 500 gallon fuel capacity. It would matter for a campaign sure but in the type of rapid slash and burn raids that are going to be our bread and butter for a good while we aren't going to be getting close to the 100-200 miles of range that gives it. The same for other vehicles. We don't need the endurance and the operational tempo of missions where they are worth using is going to be low enough that maintenance issues shouldn't be enough to outweigh their usefulness. We aren't going to be sending tanks or things like that on recon missions. But if we reconnoiter a Goa'uld base that we want to knock over having the option to send a team of Abrams along or a little bird for over watch is a power force multiplier.

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Vehicles are also useful for non-combat purposes. Take the Death Glider project. Moving huge chunks of metal by hand is hard. Moving them with some kind of crane or even dragging them through the sand behind another vehicle is much easier.

Any time we want to move large things we will benefit from being able to send vehicles. From being able to send a tank truck with water to help the Abydonians or sending a regular truck to trade some goods in exchange for some kind of favor or technology.

Combat vehicles are certainly also relevant but in a lot of ways being able to send normal vehicles may be more useful.

 

[Cookiesndip]

That's at least balanced out by Ample Funding.

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Still not a priority. Pretty much everything in Procurement or Recruitment is far more urgent so that our few guys don't get rolled by numbers. Vehicles are and have always been support, and at the moment there is little to support. The Goa'uld has tons of shit that works on APCs and humvees (prob. even staff weapons), which are the only thing we'll be able to fit in the medium-term. Don't expect M1 Abrams through the gate any time soon, they simply wouldn't fit, and they'd be worthless barring rare circumstances (encampment assault) anyways because the Goa'uld really don't use many ground vehicles and primarily stick to air and space. Also, a lot of the areas in SG1 series are forests, indoor bases, or generally unpaved rocky terrain - they wouldn't be that useful without research.

Now AA guns? With all the death glider spam, maybe. Go heavy weapons for now, much more useful.

Would mostly help with moving shit, but we can't really afford the cmd cost yet, since this is a multistage project.

I like guns over biolab, but there's synergy with the improved medlab.

 

[demonthese2211]

That's a fair point. I'm still a little worried, since for all we know right now the Goa'uld can get or have anti-tank measures easily available, and we don't currently have the infantry to support combined arms, but that's definitely a feasible scenario.

But then I'm also worried that basically everything we're doing is 50% Task Force Smith.

maybe in the near future we can get together some defined scenarios to run exercises through, but first we got a lot of catching up to do.

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Fair enough. Though to be honest the biggest priority I would have for our infantry compliment runs up to the problem of how closely Azel wants to hew towards keeping the format of the show. Which is a roundabout way of saying I think we should take the XCOM route and increase our squad sizes ASAP. Ideally I think we would want to bump squad size up to six for more flexibility (allowing operation as a 6 person, 2 3 person, or 3 2 person units) and survivability. 8 would also be a decent number (essentially operating SG teams in pairs) but given the level of quality we want out of our soldiers that might drop the number of available teams too low and in the longer term it would make operating out of Bradleys awkward, though the Stryker would still be available in that case.

Tanks are more of a long-term ploy. I doubt we're going to be taking on the sort of missions that would need them immediately. But we don't want to be sitting on a mission that will need them and realizing we haven't put in the literal ground work necessary.

In the meantime, we're in Planet of the Week territory now and we don't know how closely the QM will be sticking to canon. We might have to decipher runes on an Ancient ruin or deal with a team being kidnapped and replaced by robot duplicates, or we might have to solve a giant Rubik's cube to solve the secrets of the universe or talk to a giant sentient squid. We just do the best we can to anticipate a broad variety of needs.

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Tanks specifically are a longer term concern yes but a small motor pool for some Humvees/JLTVs or motorcycles or quad bikes or something of that nature would be immediately useful. Something to give our SG teams some more mobility or at least something to haul a small trailer if we want to run longer term operations.