Do you not know what a Golden Path is?
Reaching for the Stars - A Stargate Quest
Do you not know what a Golden Path is?
Crafter of War
The Dorf
- Location
- Bend
He didn't say he didn't know what a Golden Path is. He's saying that the canon path isn't the Golden Path.
- Location
- New England, State of Confusion
- Pronouns
- She/Her
We hold the field, we have time to obtain the cartouch (I could be wrong on the time thing but I do not expect to be, we need at most a few days.) Connecting the rebellion isnt good yes, but we can evac people to mitigate that / not if OpSec is a concern. As for losses, this is a military op. We inflicted disproportionate losses on our enemy, and the losses we did take while not inconsequential, are replaceable.
All is not lost, we have advantages and opportunities still. We have Teal'c, we still have access to the cartouch, we can learn from this.
- Location
- Germany
Same guy as here (Children of the Gods - Part 5) and referenced by O'Neill here (The Price of Defiance - Part 2). In a nutshell, he is a bit tired that his people are treated as easily replaceable cannon fodder by the Goa'uld. You will get a bit more background once you get proper intel from him.
As for why he is that tough? That's just him being a sturdy, even by Jaffa standards. The teams experience so far is that Jaffa don't go down until they got shot in the head or got multiple hits to the body, which is already super humanly tough.
- Location
- an unseen void
- Pronouns
- Any
canon just had to deal with a writer's room, runtime, and budget cuts, we have to deal with statistics - a much harder game mode.
And I am questioning him because if he is claiming that canon isn't the golden path then he must have some sort of misconception going on somewhere. It very clearly is the golden path. It is a plot point of the series.
Godwinson
"Well, I've got nothing."
Yeah, fuck this quest, I'm out. Comprehensively fucked over by the dice, and not a trace of it slowing down.
- Location
- Germany
I have to say that I'm quite happy that my writing does not need a special effects budget.
So in order. Yes we hold the field. No we don't have time to obtain the cartouch since the goauld would basically return to *a* world with large army of theirs on it and send them right back to us as soon as possible at this point. We have an hour or two to evacuate at this point. Connecting the rebellion basically burns this planet in the CIA sense. Don't go there for at least a few years or expect to get your people captured. In canon the military losses where far smaller as in I think only one person died on that first mission? Specifically the military officer that had been captured initially. Been a long time since I've seen the start though.
So yes by far this is a massively worse outcome then canon. Which is why I said this was horrible. We don't have the time, the resources, or the advantages that canon does at this point in time. Frankly we are in a death spiral. Can we recover from this? Yes with absolutely amazing luck. I doubt that is going to happen given our luck so far. If this is even close to considered average then this quest is fucked from the start.
Stargate only gets worse from here. This was supposed to be the easy mode of the whole quest. Events and situations and people are supposed to be set up perfectly at this point in time with no previous set up required to get as close to a perfect victory as we could get. Instead just about all of our advantages are gone. Only one left really is Teal'c. We aren't going to be able to access the cartouch, so effectively we are locked into our little corner except for what teal'c can share. Our gate addresses are so limited and skewed towards common routes we won't be able to take advantage of lost addresses to skirt around the goauld...
This situation just sucks.
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I remind you I know almost zero lore, and the GM already said this was majorly off the rails, so the reason I'm questioning if it's the golden path in this particular Quest is the same reason I'd question, say, what exactly all the weapons and armor do and what sense they make in Goa'uld colonial vs colonial doctrine, and also what comes out of the mouth of O'Neill on the show.
Well I'm not sure how we're going to recover from this politically or tactically. We don't have the head of their leader to mitigate any of it. Better hope they don't have ships in system to orbital bomb us.
Edit: If we're going to evacuate them, where are we going to keep them?
Edit: If we're going to evacuate them, where are we going to keep them?
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So my advice then? Don't question it. Because that was the Golden Path. Your just revealing how little you know the more you do question it.
I don't see this is as irrecoverable.
Firstly, Apophis just got his ass kicked by an unknown force with unfamiliar weapons. He also lost his commanding military officer and right hand. He doesn't know what exactly happened, but I don't see hundreds of Jaffa pouring through the gate immediately.
It's possible Abydos has to be burnt. That's not the end of the world either. We have a whole mountain to house them in, and we can potentially find another planet. It's a complication but not irrecoverable.
Earth remains immune to Gate attack as long as we have the Iris. IIRC the energy weapon attack doesn't come for a couple seasons yet, so it's not something Apophis has on hand. And Earth is a considerable distance away by spaceflight.
Firstly, Apophis just got his ass kicked by an unknown force with unfamiliar weapons. He also lost his commanding military officer and right hand. He doesn't know what exactly happened, but I don't see hundreds of Jaffa pouring through the gate immediately.
It's possible Abydos has to be burnt. That's not the end of the world either. We have a whole mountain to house them in, and we can potentially find another planet. It's a complication but not irrecoverable.
Earth remains immune to Gate attack as long as we have the Iris. IIRC the energy weapon attack doesn't come for a couple seasons yet, so it's not something Apophis has on hand. And Earth is a considerable distance away by spaceflight.
- Location
- Germany
@Daniel14541, to put it very clearly: There is no "Golden Path". If there is one way to win and every slight deviation leads to abject doom, then there would be very little point to have a quest.
Didn't say it wasn't irrecoverable. Just that it puts us in a horrible position that costs us a ton of time when we are already on a countdown doom clock from the invasion in the future. So... horrible position.
Apophis has a number of other leaders he can easily slot into position as new military head. This happens often enough in the series that the viewers saw. It is a simple process for the goauld. So no time really is going to be lost here. Just show up at a planet with a standing army and have them go through. Again the counter invasion is barely a few hours away. Thousands of jaffa in just a few hours.
It is a horrible massive blow since the abydos cartouch lists a ton of forgotten addresses that would have very much helped the SGC in our early days. We know one address with potentially a second being the planet the slaves where captured from. That is it. We needed that cartouch and now we lost it.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHahahahahaha.... *Looks at last paragraph again* HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHahahahahahahaha.... Wow I needed that laugh.
Dude did you forget we are on an invasion doom clock? Back when Ra was killed they set up the steps for our subjugation and we are a close to its implementation. We need to go out and acquire the protection from space ship attack that is going to be happening before the next presidential election even pops off. Gate attack is the least of our concerns. They only used that when they failed to invade though starship a couple times.
So rather then focus this quest on making correct decisions to try and improve our position we can do whatever? I'm not sure I'm interested in this quest anymore if that if the attitude it is going to take to the source material. Guess I'll see with the next update.
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The problem is the Jaffa are expendable. These loses aren't even a drop in the bucket for him. In exchange we essentially got nothing. The gate addresses are in this planet. So all we can do is hope we gain another way to get those addresses or an act of god gets us the addresses before he comes back. Not to mention the political fall out from the losses, the refugees, etc. The Stargate program wasn't made to save people but to gain tech.
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Ghostdevil
The Devil of Ghosts
- Location
- United States
Yea we are completely boned, theres literally nothing we can do from here without some fiat.
- Location
- an unseen void
- Pronouns
- Any
Teal'c, even wounded, is an incredible source of intelligence. We have recon missions available even if we get nothing else before leaving Abydos, because we already had them in the Turn 1 options. We achieved our main objective (recover our people) and we're getting at least Teal'c and maybe more because we made a big play. That we already completed the Iris limits our fallout considerably.
"essentially got nothing," "literally nothing we can do from here without some fiat," come on. This is catastrophizing. All war is filled with loss, chaos, fog, and friction. That will fuck with our enemies as well as us, and we will have new opportunities in the future.
"essentially got nothing," "literally nothing we can do from here without some fiat," come on. This is catastrophizing. All war is filled with loss, chaos, fog, and friction. That will fuck with our enemies as well as us, and we will have new opportunities in the future.
- Location
- United States
Dude, come on. Be mature. That's very much not what Azel said.
I don't really understand why we couldn't get the cartouche. Also Apophis fled in Children of the Gods. We lost a high number of soldiers which badly sucks, but we got Teal'c, and we have a politically savvy leader, and a powerful enemy to present to the brass. I just don't really see the doom and gloom here.
Already set that up. Unfortunately that is the least of our concerns. We have an imminent spaceship invasion to contend with. That will glass our planet. We don't know the addresses to actually go out and explore the rest of the galaxy. This first mission was supposed to set us up with a what we needed to survive... we basically lost all of that. So we are stuck at square one when we could have been 10 steps ahead.
We got our people in exchange for more losses then one Stargate team, loss of one of two of the only addresses we have. In exchange the enemy has lost nothing that can't be easily replaced. That's what we're getting at a net negative. We'd need something that wasn't in canon to get the gate addresses.
As for Teal'C his simbiote is damaged which we can't help. The higher ups have no reason to trust him unless we get a story arc that can prove his loyalty like OG Stargate. So he's a resource we won't be able to use for awhile.
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