Per Aspera (Space Agency Plan Quest)

[CyberFemme]

While, ideally, we'd have better materials for the orbital rocket, I'm concerned we won't have time. While we'd get a big improvement through using Al, isogrid tanks, or balloon tanks, it'd also delay things. If we can afford the time delay, then it's a good idea, but I'm being conservative in my estimates for now.


While I agree that medium launchers are more economical for routine payloads, there is a pretty significant advantage in being able to launch massive payloads all at once. If we're establishing a serious human presence in space, something which can put entire hundreds of tons into orbit with single launches is advantageous. It means we can build large, monolithic structures on Earth (where all the fancy production equipment and skilled workforce is) and launch it in one go, instead of having to make things dissassemble and then put it back together in orbit over dozens of launches with a smaller vehicle.

Click to shrink...

Can I interest you in our lord and savior Saturn-V4X(U)?


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y820utm9r4U

Do this with four medium launch vehicles and you can throw 100 tonnes to orbit.

If you need to regularly move 100+ tonnes to orbit, then we need to start talking about some sort of Starship-Superheavy analogue.

Otherwise get good at orbital assembly/manufacturing.

 

[C_Z]

Can I interest you in our lord and savior Saturn-V4X(U)?


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y820utm9r4U

Do this with four medium launch vehicles and you can throw 100 tonnes to orbit.

If you need to regularly move 100+ tonnes to orbit, then we need to start talking about some sort of Starship-Superheavy analogue.

Otherwise get good at orbital assembly/manufacturing.

Click to shrink...

I am talking about a starship-superheavy analogue

I don't think it's going to be a "regular" thing, but ISS (for example) is ~450 tons. Something like Saturn V-4X, Sea Dragon, Comet HLLV, or the like could do that in 1-2 launches and with a much larger payload fairing than what we got IRL, allowing a more optimal layout.

At the point of bundling 4 Saturn Vs together (without having developed a Saturn V, since we'll be trying to get a high launch tempo with our smaller rocket), we might as well just develop a larger diameter core stage and stick 20 engines on that.

 

[CyberFemme]

I am talking about a starship-superheavy analogue

I don't think it's going to be a "regular" thing, but ISS (for example) is ~450 tons. Something like Saturn V-4X, Sea Dragon, Comet HLLV, or the like could do that in 1-2 launches and with a much larger payload fairing than what we got IRL, allowing a more optimal layout.

At the point of bundling 4 Saturn Vs together (without having developed a Saturn V, since we'll be trying to get a high launch tempo with our smaller rocket), we might as well just develop a larger diameter core stage and stick 20 engines on that.

Click to shrink...

The way I would build an ISS is to do a few Falcon Heavy-alike launches with expanded fairings in order to get the empty modules up there, and then do a bunch of launches with MLVs to ship all the equipment up afterwards and have the astronauts fit it and assemble it.

Yes, it's a bunch of extra steps, but we have the luxury of treating it as a dress rehersal for building long term orbital infrastructure, so building things in space just becomes a program goal in itself.

Because we aren't facing the pervesrse incentives all IRL programs operated under, so we don't have to rush and we don't have to worry about getting our funding slashed in the next election cycle (well, we kind of do, but it's a lot easier to manage than dealing with the fickle whims of Congress or the Politburo).

 

[C_Z]

The way I would build an ISS is to do a few Falcon Heavy-alike launches with expanded fairings in order to get the empty modules up there, and then do a bunch of launches with MLVs to ship all the equipment up afterwards and have the astronauts fit it and assemble it.

Yes, it's a bunch of extra steps, but we have the luxury of treating it as a dress rehersal for building long term orbital infrastructure, so building things in space just becomes a program goal in itself.

Because we aren't facing the pervesrse incentives all IRL programs operated under, so we don't have to rush and we don't have to worry about getting our funding slashed in the next election cycle (well, we kind of do, but it's a lot easier to manage than dealing with the fickle whims of Congress or the Politburo).

Click to shrink...

Sure, but that's still inherently more limiting. Everything we want to launch then NEEDS to be able to fit into the ~60 tons a Falcon Heavy can put up. For example, to go back to something recently discussed, a moderately-sized reactor for powering large-scale infrastructure in orbit (around 50 MWe) would exceed that, even if you launched the water for radiation shielding and the fuel separately (the former because it can just be pumped in, and the latter because we'd probably want to launch it on a more reliable spacecraft and in a vehicle which can safely reenter if something goes wrong). The same applies to other types of orbital infrastructure where it's relatively difficult to divide it amongst multiple launches.

A Falcon Heavy is also reliant on our generic launch vehicle being a Falcon 9 analogue. That's probably overkill when you consider what we'll be launching for the first few years - a dozen tons to LEO is a lot when Soyuz-T is around half that.

 

[Dessard]

It might be worth moving towards making regular objectives assessments - maybe 5, 10 and 15 year goals for what we hope to be doing in space, or maybe in increments of 6 - so that we can make vehicle decisions based on concrete expected uses. Of course, right now the IEC's backers' objectives are a lot less ambitious than ours but that's to be expected for a space program. Could be somehow made an end-of-year or every few years vote, or could be informal.

 

[C_Z]

It might be worth moving towards making regular objectives assessments - maybe 5, 10 and 15 year goals for what we hope to be doing in space, or maybe in increments of 6 - so that we can make vehicle decisions based on concrete expected uses. Of course, right now the IEC's backers' objectives are a lot less ambitious than ours but that's to be expected for a space program. Could be somehow made an end-of-year or every few years vote, or could be informal.

Click to shrink...

I'd say 4, 9, 14 is better given we already have a 4-year deadline for reaching orbit.

 

[CyberFemme]

Sure, but that's still inherently more limiting. Everything we want to launch then NEEDS to be able to fit into the ~60 tons a Falcon Heavy can put up. For example, to go back to something recently discussed, a moderately-sized reactor for powering large-scale infrastructure in orbit (around 50 MWe) would exceed that, even if you launched the water for radiation shielding and the fuel separately (the former because it can just be pumped in, and the latter because we'd probably want to launch it on a more reliable spacecraft and in a vehicle which can safely reenter if something goes wrong). The same applies to other types of orbital infrastructure where it's relatively difficult to divide it amongst multiple launches.

A Falcon Heavy is also reliant on our generic launch vehicle being a Falcon 9 analogue. That's probably overkill when you consider what we'll be launching for the first few years - a dozen tons to LEO is a lot when Soyuz-T is around half that.

Click to shrink...

What? If we need 50MWe of electrical power in orbit then boy howdy, we are well into the industrialization stage and at that point we need to talk about reusable super-heavy launchers. It's a good problem to have, but not one we're going to be grappling with for a while.

As for spacecraft, if we look at Mars DRA 3.0, you're looking at a 65ish ton cargo/passenger habitat (including all the provisions), and a little more for the propulsion bus. That's 6 launches of a FHalike LV to put get two cargo craft and a crew vehicle to Mars.

We won't need a RSHLV untill we've actually figured out what space industries it will serve. A medium lift launcher is more than enough for our medium term needs.

 

[C_Z]

What? If we need 50MWe of electrical power in orbit then boy howdy, we are well into the industrialization stage and at that point we need to talk about reusable super-heavy launchers. It's a good problem to have, but not one we're going to be grappling with for a while.

As for spacecraft, if we look at Mars DRA 3.0, you're looking at a 65ish ton cargo/passenger habitat (including all the provisions), and a little more for the propulsion bus. That's 6 launches of a FHalike LV to put get two cargo craft and a crew vehicle to Mars.

We won't need a RSHLV untill we've actually figured out what space industries it will serve. A medium lift launcher is more than enough for our medium term needs.

Click to shrink...

Yeah, I'm thinking well into the future. For now, I don't think we need anything larger than a Soyuz - remember, the world is currently rebuilding from a nuclear war, they don't have the budget to spend on things like flags-and-footprints missions to the moon that don't improve the lives of your average person.

For the relative short term, I don't think there's a good reason to build larger; we want something large enough for a 3-crew launcher or putting up moderately larger satellites and launching small probes to other bodies, which I suspect will be our bread-and-butter for quite a while.

Once we get past that, though, I think there's a good argument for a SHLV. I'm not quite sure if the economics favour it being reusable for how rarely it'd launch?

 

[CyberFemme]

Yeah, I'm thinking well into the future. For now, I don't think we need anything larger than a Soyuz - remember, the world is currently rebuilding from a nuclear war, they don't have the budget to spend on things like flags-and-footprints missions to the moon that don't improve the lives of your average person.

For the relative short term, I don't think there's a good reason to build larger; we want something large enough for a 3-crew launcher or putting up moderately larger satellites and launching small probes to other bodies, which I suspect will be our bread-and-butter for quite a while.

Once we get past that, though, I think there's a good argument for a SHLV. I'm not quite sure if the economics favour it being reusable for how rarely it'd launch?

Click to shrink...

Yeah, Soyuz is incredibly well optimized.

Through I'd prefer a more TKS like architecture for the nicer abort options (it puts the capsule on top of a combined habitat/service module).

It also provides a better path to reuse since we can eventually create an autonomous version of the orbital module that can dive down from a parking orbit to meet a capsule and be refuelled directly from the 2nd stage propellant tanks, then return to said parking orbit between missions.

edit: for an interim SHLV that doesn't need to be fully reusable, we'd probably spam MLV engines unto a supersized recoverable engine pod (SMART style), and use balloon tanks.

Baloon tanks are likely to be the bread and butter of our semi-reusable MLV upper stages anyhow, so we'd have the infrastructure in place for it.

 

[C_Z]

Yeah, Soyuz is incredibly well optimized.

Through I'd prefer a more TKS like architecture for the nicer abort options (it puts the capsule on top of a combined habitat/service module).

It also provides a better path to reuse since we can eventually create an autonomous version of the orbital module that can dive down from a parking orbit to meet a capsule and be refuelled directly from the 2nd stage propellant tanks, then return to said parking orbit between missions.

edit: for an interim SHLV that doesn't need to be fully reusable, we'd probably spam MLV engines unto a supersized recoverable engine pod (SMART style), and use balloon tanks.

Baloon tanks are likely to be the bread and butter of our semi-reusable MLV upper stages anyhow, so we'd have the infrastructure in place for it.

Click to shrink...

I was using Soyuz as an example of the general weight to LEO, not specific architecture, but it is indeed pretty good.

TKS would be a very reasonable approach, I agree. Personally I'd prefer if we went with a X-20/lifting body RV approach just because it's an interesting "road not taken", but from a purely "technically optimal" approach TKS is pretty great.

I'm not sure if a reusable orbital module is worth it? What mission architecture would favour that as opposed to a full-scale space station?

SMART is the non-winged version of Airbus Adeline, right? I think that's a good approach to reusability early on. We don't need to fiddle with fancy things like multiple engine ignitions, supersonic braking burns, deep throttling during landing, complicated guidance, landing ships, and the like - we just need to make the thrust frame able to detach from the above tank and be durable enough to handle suborbital reentry, stick some fins on the engine mount so it's inherently stable, and add chutes and a flotation collar.

That said, I'm not sure (again) if that's wise for our SHLV. Engines used for our MLV, if we manage to implement a recoverable engine pod, are presumably going to be relatively costly and built to be easily refurbished. That's harder from a materials science perspective than an engine that just burns for two minutes and is then thrown away. We're decades off from that point, though, so we'll see how things play out.

 

[CyberFemme]

I was using Soyuz as an example of the general weight to LEO, not specific architecture, but it is indeed pretty good.

TKS would be a very reasonable approach, I agree. Personally I'd prefer if we went with a X-20/lifting body RV approach just because it's an interesting "road not taken", but from a purely "technically optimal" approach TKS is pretty great.

I'm not sure if a reusable orbital module is worth it? What mission architecture would favour that as opposed to a full-scale space station?

SMART is the non-winged version of Airbus Adeline, right? I think that's a good approach to reusability early on. We don't need to fiddle with fancy things like multiple engine ignitions, supersonic braking burns, deep throttling during landing, complicated guidance, landing ships, and the like - we just need to make the thrust frame able to detach from the above tank and be durable enough to handle suborbital reentry, stick some fins on the engine mount so it's inherently stable, and add chutes and a flotation collar.

That said, I'm not sure (again) if that's wise for our SHLV. Engines used for our MLV, if we manage to implement a recoverable engine pod, are presumably going to be relatively costly and built to be easily refurbished. That's harder from a materials science perspective than an engine that just burns for two minutes and is then thrown away. We're decades off from that point, though, so we'll see how things play out.

Click to shrink...

The cross range capability of a X-20 like lifting body aren't as interesting for an early civilian space program through, and it involves more development compared to a capsule (which should be pointed out can have a degree of cross range by manipulating the location of their centre of mass in relation to their centre of pressure). What something like X-20 is good for is second stage reuse. Smaller launch vehicles benefit from the extra surface area of wings to keep re-entry heating down (large ones can just rely on their inherent fluffiness). However even there it's not a given that wings are the best option, because you have other options like using ballutes to shed more velocity in the higher atmosphere where re-entry heating is less of an issue.

Yeah, a reusable orbital module is a sort of ugly duckling interim step between expendable missions and longer term space stations that might well be worth skipping altogether.

Yep!


I mean that developing a reusable engine pod for our SHLV using clustered MLV engines would be faster and easier than going for a more bespoke solution, because we could use existing hardware. We would not be throwing these engines away - unless we built up a collection of engines on their tenth or fifteenth launch and just expended them all on a SHLV launch in lieu of simply decommissioning them.

 

[Dessard]

I'm not sure if a reusable orbital module is worth it? What mission architecture would favour that as opposed to a full-scale space station?

Click to shrink...

I really like the idea of a series of small space stations (each handling just a few missions) because we can launch a series alongside a second- generation capsule program, both smoothing out some likely design issues and gaining a lot of critical experience. It would be able to be spread out more than a large permanent station, but still contribute to the both the knowledge and hardware needed for later programs. Of course this is getting ahead of where we are and it depends on what our concrete situation looks like but the more I think about it the better it sounds.

On the spacecraft side, we can make a more capable spacecraft if we don't have to worry about the multi-week habitation and scientific side of the manned program. If we offload that to a larger, less constrained module we have more slack in a given weight class for some combination of more people, more margin of safety, easier checkout/refurbishment, and so on.

The stations themselves would be low-commitment compared to a permanent base - relatively easy to iterate on in their basic design as we learn, not needing to be sent up on a human-rated rocket, able to carry different experimental equipment, not having to be designed for super-long life. But they'd provide a lot of experience with rendezvous and resupply, significant stays in orbit, a lot of things we want. They could carry heavy loads of scientific equipment that'd be hard to manage on simply a more intense manned capsule program. And if it went well, the hardware could provide a direct component of lunar spacecraft or larger stations.

 

[C_Z]

Hey @Shadows, would you mind clarifying how the "reroll 1 failure" works for the politics dice when we have multiple dice being invested in one project? I realized I messed up my math before and want to re-do it, but figured I should actually check before making a bad assumption and being wrong yet again.

 

[Shadows]

Hey @Shadows, would you mind clarifying how the "reroll 1 failure" works for the politics dice when we have multiple dice being invested in one project? I realized I messed up my math before and want to re-do it, but figured I should actually check before making a bad assumption and being wrong yet again.

Click to shrink...

I pick your lowest roll and reroll it if necessary. Both of your Political projects completed this turn, though, so it didn't happen.

 

[C_Z]

Okay just making sure.

I have to amend my earlier comment about a 40% chance of failure, it was bad stats (I was tired and rushing and did a stupid - you'd think for someone in STEM I'd be good at math, but apparently not).

Not 100% sure (probability, clearly, is not my strong suit and it's been ages since I had to do this kind of stuff), but I think our probability of failure is 0.46?

God I hate stats why did I try and math this out. Now I have a headache.

 

[CyberFemme]

Okay just making sure.

I have to amend my earlier comment about a 40% chance of failure, it was bad stats (I was tired and rushing and did a stupid - you'd think for someone in STEM I'd be good at math, but apparently not).

Not 100% sure (probability, clearly, is not my strong suit and it's been ages since I had to do this kind of stuff), but I think our probability of failure is 0.46?

God I hate stats why did I try and math this out. Now I have a headache.

Click to shrink...

The thread salutes your sacrifice.


View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OIUqnVVUcrQ

 

[Shadows]

Headlines From Around The World​

MOMBASA, EAST AFRICAN AUTONOMOUS REGION - (photograph of the Great Cyclone of 1952 above) Interplanetary Exploration Cooperative scientists have wowed and astonished the scientific community by photographing the structure of a tropical cyclone from low space. Weather scientists around the world scramble to gain access to copies of their data…

CHICAGO, RED LAKES COMMUNE - Partisan forces are stalled outside of Chicago following a drive from strongholds in the South! Armed fighters are arriving by train from across the continent by the thousands, day and night, ready to join the fight against…

LUZON - WCC personnel have completed their cleanup of 3rd Great War-era munitions dumps left behind after the end of the conflict. This is all a part of Project Revival, aimed at repairing the wrongs of the old world…

HIROSHIMA, NIPPON - The ruined city of Hiroshima has been ruled safe to re-inhabit, following an intensive effort to scrape and remove the remaining radioactive material left behind from the atomic blast that devastated the city in 1945. The teams employed there are expected to move to Nagasaki to assist with operations there…


Resources:
265 (+160R/turn)
35 Political Support

Council Liaison Reports:

Objectives of the World Communal Council

Complete Post-War Reconstruction (6250/200000)
Defeat Partisan Forces

State of the World

Mostly stable. Occasional brushfire conflicts occurring across the globe. American partisans are fighting local defense forces for control of the Great Lakes region. Southern Africa continues to be in turmoil; unrest is largely centered in former South Africa.

Rebuilding continues unabated in Asia with the clearing of Hiroshima for human habitation being hailed as the WCC's first major accomplishment. Other cities affected by atomic blasts are still in the early-to-middle stages of cleanup.

Mediterranean/Saharan Africa
Education: 5 (+)
Electrification: 2
Industry: 1
Infrastructure: 2
Security: 1
Partisan Activity: 4

Sub-Saharan Africa
Education: 4 (+)
Electrification: 2
Industry: 2
Infrastructure: 2
Security: 3
Partisan Activity: 10 (+)

Eastern Asia
Education: 7
Electrification: 5
Industry: 9 (+)
Infrastructure: 7(+)
Security: 6
Partisan Activity: 11

Western Asia
Education: 8
Electrification: 10
Industry: 10
Infrastructure: 9
Security: 5
Partisan Activity: 12

Australia and New Zealand
Education: 5
Electrification: 5
Industry: 4
Infrastructure: 4
Security: 2
Partisan Activity: 6

Europe
Education: 8
Electrification: 10
Industry: 7
Infrastructure: 10
Security: 5
Partisan Activity: 9

North America
Education: 7
Electrification: 9 (--)
Industry: 10 (-)
Infrastructure: 7 (-)
Security: 8 (++)
Partisan Activity: 15 (+)

South America
Education: 5
Electrification: 5
Industry: 3
Infrastructure: 3
Security: 4
Partisan Activity: 4

Pacific Islands
Education: 2
Electrification: 2
Industry: 2 (+)
Infrastructure: 2 (+)
Security: 1
Partisan Activity: 4

Facilities:

1 Launch Stand (0-5 tonne) (+1 Operations die)
1 Assembly Complex (+1 Build Capacity)
1 Engineer's Hall (+2 Engineering Dice)
1 University Affiliate (+2 Science Dice)
1 Materials Lab (+5 bonus to projects tagged [MATSCI])
1 Chemical Plant (+5 bonus to projects tagged [CHEM])
1 Electronics Cooperative (+5 bonus to projects tagged [AVIONICS])
2 Construction Union Halls (+2 Facilities die)
1 Publications Office (+1 to all science and engineering fields; coinflip each year to get an additional +1)
1 Hardened Tracking and Observation (T&O) Complex (+3 to Operations)
1 Engine Test Stand (+2 to PROP projects)
1 Isotope Separation and Nuclear Science Facility (Enables Nuclear Technology tree) (fully unlocks 1954Q1)

Scientific Advances (name TBD)

Improved Instrumentation (Gain +1d2 bonus to a random field every 2 launches. Gain +1 to AVIONICS immediately.)
Regenerative Cooling (Starts down the path to more powerful and advanced rocket engines
Second Stages - Can now build 2-Stage Sounding Rockets
Combustion Instability Research - Turns the initial success roll for a rocket from a >60 to >50.
Engine Cycles - Enables Early Orbital engines.

Scientific/Engineering Specific Field Bonuses
AERO - +3
AVIONICS - +6
CHEM - +7
CREW - +0
COMP - +0
MATSCI - +5
PHYS - +0
PROP - +4

Penelope Carter [The Director] - [+10 to Politics rolls, +2 Politics die, +5R/turn in funding from Connections, reroll 1 failed politics roll per turn]

Sergei Korolev - [+5 to Science and Engineering rolls (unless researching [HGOL][FUEL] projects, then it becomes a -15), +1 Science dice, +1 Engineering Dice. Request: Build an Orbital Rocket within 5 years; build a Scientific Complex in former Ukraine within 10 years.]

Promises Made (Expires Q1 1953):
Complete Weather Studies (Phase 3) (+5 PS)
Build Computational Research Facility (+5 PS)
Complete Rocket Boxes (Phase 3)
Do not expand to more than 2 Facilities Dice
Do not pursue Spaceplane research

Operations (1 dice, +3 bonus)

[] Construct a Sounding Rocket - Standard Sounding rocket launches are now something of an old hat. Still perfectly useful, of course, and they're not actually that old, but the two stage rockets have stolen some of their thunder. (10R per dice, 0/35, costs 1 Build Capacity until complete)
-[] And launch it (free action for Sounding Rockets) (gains Scientific Data, launch experience, results to show the people funding you)

[] Construct a 2-Stage Sounding Rocket - The IEC's engineers and scientists have come up with a moderately reliable stage separation system for multi-stage rockets. Moderately as in "It worked the first time", anyway. It could use more development. (15R per dice, 0/45, costs 1 Build Capacity until complete)
-[] And launch it (free action for Sounding Rockets) (gains Scientific Data, launch experience, results to show the people funding you)

Facilities (2 dice, +5 bonus)

[ ] Construct a Hangar Complex - A group of pilots and engineers approached you with the idea of constructing a spaceplane. Such an endeavour would surely benefit the construction of normal aircraft as well, making it a potentially easy sell to the People's Forum. First, though, the IEC would need a place to actually, well, build them. (10R per die, 0/100, allows constructing spaceplane prototypes)

[ ] Construct a Runway - A 6 kilometer long strip of concrete and tarmac to launch and land air-and-spacecraft from, and the control towers and radars to supplement it. (10R per die, 0/150, allows for launching and landing air and spacecraft)

[ ] Construct a Heavy Sounding Rocket launch site - Your current launch stand isn't up to the task of launching a much bigger rocket than it currently does, being little more than a repurposed parking lot. The launch area could use reinforcement, thicker concrete and rebar and the like, maybe a flame trench to divert the rocket's exhaust away from it. Your engineers have enough guesstimates from the ones who want to make the Heavy Sounding Rocket that they feel confident enough to tell you they can make a pad that can handle it. (15R per die, 8/60, allows launch of the Heavy Sounding Rocket and theoretical derivatives up to 30 tons)

[ ] Construct a Wind Tunnel - In order to do advanced studies on the shape of air and spacecraft at various speeds, you'll need a safe space that you can push a lot of air into, quickly. You've been assured by literally everyone involved that this will be useful. Personally, you're half-convinced it's just the air/spaceplane research crowd looking for every possible excuse to acquire jet engines and jet engine parts. But… (10R per die, 0/80, +3 to projects labeled AERO)

[ ] Construct a Computational Research Facility - As you promised to build one for the WCC, your engineers and computer scientists have come to you with designs for a mainframe computing facility much like ENIAC, only far more powerful, utilizing magnetic tape to store programs that it would then execute. They promise that it will not only help the IEC improve computer technology, but it will also aid all the other research the IEC is doing. (20R per die, 19/180, +3 to all projects) (High Priority)

Engineering (3 dice, +6 Bonus to All)

[ ] Conduct Design Studies (Platform) (Heavy Sounding Rocket) [AERO] - Your small sounding rockets are, well, they work, but they're not as high-performing as you'd like. During the Third Great War, the Empire used a thirteen-tonne rocket as a terror weapon against civilians; that rocket is, approximately, thirteen times as large as the ones you are using, and able to fly at least three times as high, based on your people's calculations. They think they can recreate the design using notes seized from the ruins of the Empire's rocket complex. (5R per die, 49/80, unlocks Heavy Sounding Rocket (and a naming vote because that's unwieldy))

[ ] Conduct Design Studies (Platform) (Spaceplane Development) [AERO] - If you're going to be building spaceplanes, it would be a good idea to develop a working design to build in that hangar the spaceplane gang had wanted. Your engineers were talking about things like payload fraction and use cases and aerodynamic loading - all of which went more or less over your head but it certainly seemed they knew what they were about. (5R per die, 0/100, unlocks Prototype Spaceplane)

[ ] Conduct Design Studies (Alternative Launch Systems) [AERO, PHYS] - Still more of your engineers were talking about investigating different ways of potentially getting to space. Jules Verne stuff. Big guns and space towers and the like. You didn't think them likely to work, but having the knowledge wouldn't hurt. (5R per die, 0/300, ???)

[ ] Conduct Design Studies (Early Orbital Rocket) (Phase I) [AERO, PHYS] - The design and engineering teams in Mogadishu think that they can complete the design of an Orbital Rocket. This will be a relatively more involved process than the heavy sounding rocket design, including constructing demonstrators and test articles for the tankage, the engines and the avionics, as very little is shared in common with pre-existing designs. (15R per dice, 0/300)
-(Phase II) (0/300)
-(Phase III) (0/300) (Unlocks Early Orbital Rocket)

[ ] Advanced Concepts Office - A group of scientists and engineers have come to you asking to staff an Advanced Concepts Office, whose entire function seems to be dreaming up things you could do in space. Space stations, giant spacecraft, the works. (5R and -5 PS per die, 51/150, will occasionally provide a new Program to pursue based on brainstorming and priorities)

Science (3 dice, +6 Bonus to All)

[ ] Exploratory Propellant Research (Phase 1) [CHEM] - A group of chemists attached to the IEC came to you with a proposal to conduct an exhaustive campaign characterizing just about as many propellants as they could come up with. While expensive, and dangerous, and potentially deadly, the knowledge gained could also be invaluable for nailing down mixtures and ratios of fuels that could help the IEC achieve its objectives. (15R per dice, 0/150, unlocks fuel mixtures and further fuel development)

[ ] Tracking Station Surveys - In order to support tracking and communication with long-range and orbital rocketry and experiments, you would need a network of tracking stations placed basically across the world. A survey would be conducted to find the most opportune locations for tracking station placement, prior to construction. This could give you some leverage in the People's Forum, too. (5R per dice, 0/150, unlocks Tracking Station Construction project for Facilities)

[ ] Conduct Materials Research (Phase 1) - Better alloys would lead to higher-performing engines and lighter rockets, you were told. All you had to do was authorize the resource expenditure to start testing materials. (15R per die, 0/150, provides access to aluminum structures)

[ ] Weather Studies (Phase 3) - With the weather observation program started, keeping it going is now almost a given. The returns have been very valuable for the meteorological community at large, and the PAO has received numerous calls from various localities across the globe asking for the IEC to put up instruments where they are, each hoping to reap the rewards of more accurate weather prediction. (10R per die, requires a Sounding Rocket, 67/160) (+5 PS on complete) (High Priority)

[ ] All-Sky Survey (Phase 1) - The Science Committee at the WCC put forward the proposal to perform an All-Sky Survey, mapping the entire night sky with telescopes across the world. The first such survey, the Carte du Ciel, had never actually finished, despite starting nearly three quarters of a century ago. With advancements in photography and optics, the science teams predict that they will be able to perform the task… in roughly a decade. First, though, you needed to wrangle observatories… (10R per die, 0/300) (+5 PS, ???)

[ ] Big Ear - The scientists working for the IEC have latched on to the opening the new broadcast regulations have given them, and are clamoring for funding to construct a radio telescope in a remote part of Africa. It might need a bit of infrastructure run out to it, and probably a security force of some sort to dissuade partisans, but it looked doable. Personally, you thought it was also a good excuse to help electrify somewhere that needed it. (20R per die; At least 1 dice must be Facilities, 0/300) (+1 Electrification and Infrastructure in Sub-Saharan Africa, +2 to PHYS)

[ ] Nuclear Power Studies - You now had a rather absurd amount of nuclear infrastructure making its way to Mogadishu. This included a number of nuclear physicists, some of whom had very big names, coming to join the IEC. While the world was still scarred by the horror of the atom's splitting, it was possible to use the technology for peaceful purposes - the IEC just had to show them. (15R per die, 0/400) (-15PS on completion) (Opens further nuclear research)

Politics (3 dice, +10 bonus, reroll 1 failure per turn)

Political

[ ] Branching Out - Now that you've got a much bigger Facilities department, you can afford to branch out into other locations. The only catch is, you have to get buyoff from the local communities around wherever you want to put a new facility. You'll need to devote personal time and Cooperative resources to getting this done. (10R per dice, 0/150)
-[] Write-in location

[ ] Bothering Councilors - The year's budget is set, but next year's is very much not. You can influence investment priorities if you want to apply enough political pressure to the right people to convince them to fund, say, better roads out of Mogadishu… elementary and secondary schools in Africa… that kind of thing. (-10 PS, roll a quality dice to give options for influencing infrastructure funding, triggers subvote)

[ ] There is Power in a Union - The PAO says you should expand your physical footprint so more people can interact with the IEC. It sounds like a great idea, but to do that you'll need to contract another construction worker's union. (0/100, 5R per dice, -5 PS on completion. Gain +1 Facilities dice, +5 to Facilities rolls) (UNAVAILABLE UNTIL Q1 1953)

Outreach

[ ] Rocket Boxes (Phase II) - The first phase of Rocket Box deployment has been a rousing success, and your Public Affairs Office wants to keep up the momentum by shifting their focus to Asia and Oceania. The rocket motors will likely still be made near Mogadishu, but they plan to contact workshops across those two regions to supply everything else. (5R per die, 103/300. Gives Rocket Boxes to every middle-school, high-school and university or equivalent in Asia and Oceania. Encourages future scientists and engineers - some of whom will even come work with the IEC.)

[ ] Rocket Reels - The test footage the IEC produces for scientific value can be easily copied and turned into high-octane spectacle for the purposes of swaying the public's opinion and imagination. The best part is, the more rocket launches you do, the better your reels get. (5R per die, 0/120, gain a coinflip for 1 additional Political Support per quarter; successful rocket launches give you an additional coin flip for each launch.)

[ ] Space For All - The PAO survey revealed that most people just… don't think about space with any regularity, if at all. The best and most common way for people to get into it seems to be as children, getting their imaginations fired by comic books and science fiction and the occasional radio drama or movie. The PAO proposes developing a set of educational films and television shows aimed at all age groups to tell them about the amazing wonders of the universe and what we can accomplish in it. (5R, 0/120, +10PS on completion, ???)

 

[Shadows]

grumbles about vote counters as she sets up the system

 

[CyberFemme]

Resources:
265 (+160R/turn)
35 Political Support

[X] Plan: A Rocketeer Always Pays Their Debts

Operations (1 dice, +3 bonus)

-[X] Construct a 2-Stage Sounding Rocket (15R per dice, 0/45, costs 1 Build Capacity until complete)
--[X] And reserve it for Weather Studies

Pretty self evident. We need more staging practice and we need a rocket for weather studies.

Facilities (2 dice, +0 bonus)

-[X] (2 Dice) Construct a Computational Research Facility (20R per die, 19/180, +3 to all projects) (High Priority)

Pretty obvious as well.

Engineering (3 dice, +6 Bonus to All)

-[X] (3 Dice) Conduct Design Studies (Early Orbital Rocket) (Phase I) [AERO, PHYS] (15R per dice, 0/200)

Ok! So I haven't touched heavy sounding rocket again because we're still a turn or two away from building a heavy launch pad, and were gathering data about staging and ops that we can use in the design of the heavy rocket!

The orbital rocket on the other hand is a massive project that we should get on soonest, and which we can plink away at in times such as this when we don't have more urgent matters to investigate.

Science (3 dice, +6 Bonus to All)

-[X] (2 Dice) Weather Studies (Phase 3) (10R per die, requires a Sounding Rocket, 67/160) (+5 PS on complete) (High Priority)

Two dice stands a pretty good chance of finishing the project.

-[X] Tracking Station Surveys (5R per dice, 0/150, unlocks Tracking Station Construction project for Facilities)

I want to do material science, but it's better to save it for next year so we can promise to research it and get that +5 PS. I went with tracking stations because it's something we need to prep for orbital flight and because it sounds like it gives us extra leverage to negotiate.

Politics (3 dice, +10 bonus, reroll 1 failure per turn)

Outreach

-[X] (3 Dice) Rocket Boxes (Phase II) (5R per die, 103/300. Gives Rocket Boxes to every middle-school, high-school and university or equivalent in Asia and Oceania. Encourages future scientists and engineers - some of whom will even come work with the IEC.)

Second verse same as the first.

DeltaR: -125 Resources

 

[tryrar]

ok, here's a preliminary idea:

[] Get the computers up and running
-[] Construct a 2-Stage Sounding Rocket - The IEC's engineers and scientists have come up with a moderately reliable stage separation system for multi-stage rockets. Moderately as in "It worked the first time", anyway. It could use more development. (15R per dice, 0/45, costs 1 Build Capacity until complete) 1 dice
--[]Save it for Weather Studies(launch it this turn if that completes)
-[ ] Construct a Computational Research Facility - As you promised to build one for the WCC, your engineers and computer scientists have come to you with designs for a mainframe computing facility much like ENIAC, only far more powerful, utilizing magnetic tape to store programs that it would then execute. They promise that it will not only help the IEC improve computer technology, but it will also aid all the other research the IEC is doing. (20R per die, 19/180, +3 to all projects) (High Priority) 2 dice
-[ ] Conduct Design Studies (Platform) (Heavy Sounding Rocket) [AERO] - Your small sounding rockets are, well, they work, but they're not as high-performing as you'd like. During the Third Great War, the Empire used a thirteen-tonne rocket as a terror weapon against civilians; that rocket is, approximately, thirteen times as large as the ones you are using, and able to fly at least three times as high, based on your people's calculations. They think they can recreate the design using notes seized from the ruins of the Empire's rocket complex. (5R per die, 49/80, unlocks Heavy Sounding Rocket (and a naming vote because that's unwieldy)) 1 dice
-[ ] Conduct Design Studies (Early Orbital Rocket) (Phase I) [AERO, PHYS] - The design and engineering teams in Mogadishu think that they can complete the design of an Orbital Rocket. This will be a relatively more involved process than the heavy sounding rocket design, including constructing demonstrators and test articles for the tankage, the engines and the avionics, as very little is shared in common with pre-existing designs. (15R per dice, 0/300)
--(Phase II) (0/300)
--(Phase III) (0/300) (Unlocks Early Orbital Rocket) 2 dice
-[ ] Weather Studies (Phase 3) - With the weather observation program started, keeping it going is now almost a given. The returns have been very valuable for the meteorological community at large, and the PAO has received numerous calls from various localities across the globe asking for the IEC to put up instruments where they are, each hoping to reap the rewards of more accurate weather prediction. (10R per die, requires a Sounding Rocket, 67/160) (+5 PS on complete) (High Priority) 3 dice
-[ ] Rocket Boxes (Phase II) - The first phase of Rocket Box deployment has been a rousing success, and your Public Affairs Office wants to keep up the momentum by shifting their focus to Asia and Oceania. The rocket motors will likely still be made near Mogadishu, but they plan to contact workshops across those two regions to supply everything else. (5R per die, 103/300. Gives Rocket Boxes to every middle-school, high-school and university or equivalent in Asia and Oceania. Encourages future scientists and engineers - some of whom will even come work with the IEC.) 3 dice

My reasoning for this is that we have no reason to NOT build a sounding rocket given we have a very good chance to complete Weather Studies this turn(heck, we might be able to use only 2 dice on it, but rolling 2x 44 on 2 dice is a bit iffy and there's not really anything I want to throw a spare dice onto anyways), put both facilities dice on the comp facility for obvious reasons.
For the Heavy sounding rocket, it's probably overkill to put more than one dice on it as we need to roll just 22 to finish(though there's still a chance to botch, but what can you do). However, The only engineering projects are spaceplane design(which we promised not to do) and the Advanced Concepts Office, which will eat some PS to do and probably not even complete anyways. And in any case, the faster we get orbital rocket designs, the better equiped we'd be to know what we actually need to build facility wise to support launching the thing(besides tracking stations ) so 2 dice there.
Weather Studies is an obvious no brainer, and it's far enough away that there's no guarantee even 3 dice cuts it(and 2 dice seems to fail a very high number of times), so 3 dice it is. As for our political dice, well we need to finish Rocket Boxes, so 3 dice there

 

[General_Urist]

"Red Lakes Commune" huh? Is this a reference to a certain TL on this forum?

grumbles about vote counters as she sets up the system

Click to shrink...

Did something glitch out?

Oh jeez 400 progress to get nuclear facilities. I suppose that's something to get a move on once our weather studies are done.

 

[C_Z]

[snip]

Click to shrink...

This seems more-or-less good to me. There's a 68.4% chance we complete Weather Studies 3 this turn, and we have 3 turns left in the year to do it - there's no particular rush so I think only spending 2 dice is smart. We also may need some leverage if we fail rocket boxes, so TSS seems a wise choice. Worst case scenario, we waste an Operations dice because we have a sounding rocket sitting around waiting for a payload next turn, but ops dice aren't really that valuable for this year's ojectives.

On a different note, the more I read about the partisans, the more I think we'll have a CORONA program eventually.

 

[Dessard]

Good to see the scope of the Orbital Rocket - that's something good to know.

Yeah, the 'partisans' are worrying - especially that they're going up about as fast as security is. Hopefully by the time we can put up an observation satellite they won't be large enough to be a conventional army we can observe with 50s cameras, but it's sounding like they actually are now.

Some math - the Orbital Rocket will currently take on average ~15 engineering dice, which is about five quarters of all-out engineering expenditure. We have about 15 quarters before the promise we made to Korolev. We should plan on doing it more gradually IMO rather than rushing it, but we should definitely get started.

More pressingly, the Computational Facility will cost on average 3+ dice and we have 6 remaining. We need to leave room for more bad rolls, but I think it's fine to spend a die on the HSR launch site.

This plan takes a less focused approach than the others posted so far, in order to eke as much dice efficiency as we can out of the non-urgent weather studies target (which has about a 1/7 chance of finishing in 1 die) and to get the Heavy Sounding Rocket out, because I think operating it will do more for orbital rocket planning than the reverse.

[X] Sounding Rocket and Orbital Rocket - 120 R

Operations: 1/1 die, 15R
-[X] Construct a 2-Stage Sounding Rocket (15R per dice, 0/45, costs 1 Build Capacity until complete)
--[X] Use as a part of Weather Studies

Facilities: 2/2 dice, 35R
-[X] Construct a Heavy Sounding Rocket launch site (15R per die, 8/60, allows launch of the Heavy Sounding Rocket and theoretical derivatives up to 30 tons)
-[X] Construct a Computational Research Facility (20R per die, 19/180, +3 to all projects)

Engineering: 3/3 dice, 35R
-[X] Conduct Design Studies (Platform) (Heavy Sounding Rocket) [AERO] (5R per die, 49/80, unlocks Heavy Sounding Rocket (and a naming vote because that's unwieldy))
-[X] Conduct Design Studies (Early Orbital Rocket) (Phase I) [AERO, PHYS] (15R per dice, 0/300) - 2 DICE

Science: 3/3 dice, 20R
-[X] Tracking Station Surveys (5R per dice, 0/150, unlocks Tracking Station Construction project for Facilities) - 2 DICE
-[X] Weather Studies (Phase 3) (10R per die, requires a Sounding Rocket, 67/160) (+5 PS on complete) (High Priority)

Politics: 3/3 dice, 15R
-[X] Rocket Boxes (Phase II) (5R per die, 103/300. Gives Rocket Boxes to every middle-school, high-school and university or equivalent in Asia and Oceania. Encourages future scientists and engineers - some of whom will even come work with the IEC.) - 3 DICE

 

[CyberFemme]

Good to see the scope of the Orbital Rocket - that's something good to know.

Yeah, the 'partisans' are worrying - especially that they're going up about as fast as security is. Hopefully by the time we can put up an observation satellite they won't be large enough to be a conventional army we can observe with 50s cameras, but it's sounding like they actually are now.

Some math - the Orbital Rocket will currently take on average ~15 engineering dice, which is about five quarters of all-out engineering expenditure. We have about 15 quarters before the promise we made to Korolev. We should plan on doing it more gradually IMO rather than rushing it, but we should definitely get started.

More pressingly, the Computational Facility will cost on average 3+ dice and we have 6 remaining. We need to leave room for more bad rolls, but I think it's fine to spend a die on the HSR launch site.

This plan takes a less focused approach than the others posted so far, in order to eke as much dice efficiency as we can out of the non-urgent weather studies target (which has about a 1/7 chance of finishing in 1 die) and to get the Heavy Sounding Rocket out, because I think operating it will do more for orbital rocket planning than the reverse.

[X] Sounding Rocket and Orbital Rocket - 120 R

Operations: 1/1 die, 15R
-[X] Construct a 2-Stage Sounding Rocket (15R per dice, 0/45, costs 1 Build Capacity until complete)
--[X] Use as a part of Weather Studies

Facilities: 2/2 dice, 35R
-[X] Construct a Heavy Sounding Rocket launch site (15R per die, 8/60, allows launch of the Heavy Sounding Rocket and theoretical derivatives up to 30 tons)
-[X] Construct a Computational Research Facility (20R per die, 19/180, +3 to all projects)

Engineering: 3/3 dice, 35R
-[X] Conduct Design Studies (Platform) (Heavy Sounding Rocket) [AERO] (5R per die, 49/80, unlocks Heavy Sounding Rocket (and a naming vote because that's unwieldy))
-[X] Conduct Design Studies (Early Orbital Rocket) (Phase I) [AERO, PHYS] (15R per dice, 0/300) - 2 DICE

Science: 3/3 dice, 20R
-[X] Tracking Station Surveys (5R per dice, 0/150, unlocks Tracking Station Construction project for Facilities) - 2 DICE
-[X] Weather Studies (Phase 3) (10R per die, requires a Sounding Rocket, 67/160) (+5 PS on complete) (High Priority)

Politics: 3/3 dice, 15R
-[X] Rocket Boxes (Phase II) (5R per die, 103/300. Gives Rocket Boxes to every middle-school, high-school and university or equivalent in Asia and Oceania. Encourages future scientists and engineers - some of whom will even come work with the IEC.) - 3 DICE

Click to shrink...

Oh it didn't occurr to me to use one of the computational dice for the HSR pad. I like this plan.

 

[C_Z]

Counterpoint, the CRF gives a +3 to every roll. Sure, that may only be +9 or +18 to the rocket boxes, but the probability distribution of a whole bunch of d100s added together is really narrow (for one quarter, it has a deviation of 47.6 although the "drop lowest" results in a prominent negative skew). Finishing CRF would be a minor, but not inconsequential boost to us being able to finish rocket boxes this year; we could then do a crash program to finish the HSR pad in Q3/Q4.

There also isn't really a huge benefit I can see to launching our HSR right away; while I've generally been arguing for us to push to orbit as fast as possible, I also want us to deliver on our promises. If we can show reliability, then we're more likely to get more support in the future when we start promising the really radical stuff.