Per Aspera (Space Agency Plan Quest)
- Thread starter Shadows
- Start date
- Original
neutronium95
Mad Rocketeer
- Location
- The test site
- Pronouns
- She/Her
[X] [NAME] Cosmonaut
[X] [RIGHT STUFF] Size
[X] [RIGHT STUFF] Size
[X] [RIGHT STUFF] Flight Experience
Aircraft Manufacturers of the Last Great War, Part 4 - Ash19256
Making this a separate post from my vote so it can be threadmarked separately. As always, feedback is appreciated.
Aircraft Manufacturers of the Last Great War, Part 4 - The Empire of Japan
The sole Asiatic member of the Imperial League, the Empire of Japan's involvement in the Last Great War came about, in no small part, as a result of souring relations with the Entente powers following the conclusion of the Second Great War. While the full details would be too lengthy for this text - and, indeed, several excellent books have been written covering the topic by other authors - it's safe to say that Japan's aviation industry was built on taking as much as could be learned and acquired from Western designs, and then adapting and innovating on them to serve the Japanese military's unique requirements.
Entering the Last Great War, it is hard to argue that the Empire of Japan did not have an advanced and capable aviation branch for its armed forces - and even if infighting and resource competition slowed Japan's efforts, even in the later stages of the war they were still pushing the cutting edge in some areas of aviation.
Mitsubishi
Arguably the most infamous of Japan's Last Great War aircraft manufacturers, Mitsubishi is most well known for their production of the A6M "Zero" fighters - extremely light, highly maneuverable, and horrifyingly fragile carrier borne fighters which, at the start of the Last Great War, were comparable in speed and far more maneuverable than their Western counterparts. However, as mentioned, the aircraft were notoriously fragile - in particular, their lack of self-sealing fuel tanks made them particularly prone to catching fire when hit. The Zero's successor, the A7M Reppu, was considered a match for the USN's best piston-driven carrier-borne fighter aircraft, but the ongoing rise of jet aircraft, as well as the ongoing destruction of Japan's carrier fleet, meant that the A7M's service was strictly limited.
Aside from the Zero and Reppu, Mitsubishi also produced the J8M2/Ki-200 Shusui and J8M3/Ki-202 Shusui Kai rocket fighters - Japanese adaptations of the HRE's Me 163, armed with a pair of 30 millimeter cannons, and used as key elements in Japan's defenses against Allied strategic bombing - and a number of twin-engine propeller-driven heavy fighters and medium bombers.
Nakajima
Second only to Mitsubishi for its infamy, Nakajima is well known for the G11N Fugaku Kai - the Empire of Japan's longest range strategic bomber, designed both for extreme range and to make use of the newly discovered jetstream to further extend its colossal range. While the bomber suffered extensive losses from navigational errors due to how thin its fuel margins were on extreme range missions, its effects - especially on targets closer to Japan than North America - proved truly devastating, even when forced to use conventional bombs by the ever depleting number of Japanese atomic weapons.
Aside from the Fugaku Kai, Nakajima also produced the Ki-68 interceptor - an early example of the use of coupled engines, pairing two 12-cylinder Kawasaki Ha-40 engines to drive a set of contra-rotating propellers in the nose. Combined with an armament of four 20mm cannons, the Ki-68 proved quite effective as a mid-late war bomber interceptor - although the later introduction of Allied jet bombers, as well as the fast moving and high-flying B-36, forced the Ki-68 to take a back seat to other more advanced aircraft.
This included the Ki-201 Karyu - a twin-engine jet fighter, based on the earlier Nakajima Kikka, and in turn based upon the HRE's Me 262 series of jet fighters. Notably, the Karyu featured similar speeds to the 262, and an arguably superior armament thanks to the higher muzzle velocity of the cannons used by the Japanese fighter. While more expensive than some of Japan's other jet fighters to produce, it nonetheless served a vital role in engaging both American bombers, as well as the fighter escorts which accompanied them - the latter being especially crucial considering the performance of the other fighters capable of matching the speed of Allied jet fighters and bombers.
Beyond these advanced aircraft, Nakajima was also the primary fighter manufacturer for the Imperial Japanese Army - producing the Ki-61 Hien, Ki-84 Hayate, and Ki-100 Goshikisen piston driven fighters - and the manufacturer of the B5N and B6N Tenzan bombers for the Imperial Japanese Navy.
Yokosuka
Comparatively more unknown than Mitsubishi or Nakajima, Yokosuka nonetheless found itself producing some of the Empire's most important aircraft towards the end of the war.
Originally designed as a "kamikaze" suicide weapon, the MXY-7 Ohka - in particular, the Type 43 catapult launched variants - were quickly adapted into catapult-launched point defense fighters, powered by a mix of solid rocket boosters and a single turbojet engine, and armed with a single 30mm cannon. While laughably inadequate in a dogfight, the J1Y variant of the Ohka was comparatively quick for Japan to produce - and thanks to its comparatively simple launch preparations and rapid climb rate, it could be deployed in vast numbers in close proximity to key strategic targets, proving a deceptively dangerous threat to unescorted bombers. This was especially proven during the attempted nuclear strike on Tokyo of April 26th, 1947, when a force of American B-36 bombers was cut to shreds en-route to the target by a swarm of Ohkas.
Aside from the Ohka interceptors, Yokosuka also produced the P2Y Tenga twin-jet bomber and the R2Y Keiun and R2Y2 Keiun-Kai heavy fighters - the latter of which replaced the coupled engines of the standard R2Y with a pair of turbojets, and added provisions for bombs in addition to the quartet of Type 5 30mm cannons both aircraft shared.
Kawanishi
Manufacturers of what, prior to the start of the Last Great War, were the largest flying boats in the world, Kawanishi primarily produced maritime patrol and reconnaissance aircraft for the Imperial Japanese Navy. Most famous of these were the H8K "Emily" and H11K "Marge" flying boats - the latter of which saw only limited service, due to its late entry into service.
Aside from this, Kawanishi also later absorbed the aircraft manufacturer Aichi, producing attack and reconnaissance aircraft for the Imperial Japanese Navy - in particular, the Zuiun and Seiran seaplanes, as well as the B7A Ryusei torpedo bomber.
Kayaba/Kyushu
Two of the more minor manufacturers/designers of the Imperial war effort, their aircraft were nonetheless worthy of recognition.
Kayaba's most advanced contribution to the Japanese war effort was the Ki-199 Katsudori ramjet interceptor - an operational competitor to the Mitsubishi Ki-200 and Ki-202 rocket interceptors, armed with a pair of 30mm cannons and capable of impressive top speeds despite its diminutive size. Meanwhile, Kyushu became known for the J7W1 Shinden and J7W2 Shinden-Kai interceptors - the latter of which was a single engine jet interceptor mounting a comparable armament to the Nakajima Karyu, at the cost of reduced range owing to its smaller size.
MordredRaal
Agitating
- Pronouns
- She/They
[X] [RIGHT STUFF] Size
[X] [NAME] Cosmonaut
[X] [NAME] Cosmonaut
[X] [RIGHT STUFF] Size
[X] [NAME] Cosmonaut
[X] [NAME] Cosmonaut
StarSingerBlue
Zenryoku Zenkai !
- Location
- The City of Lights
- Pronouns
- They/Them
[X] [RIGHT STUFF] Flight Experience
- Location
- [REDACTED]
[X] [RIGHT STUFF] Flight Experience
[X] [NAME] Cosmonaut
[X] [NAME] Cosmonaut
pbluekan
Somethin's Fucky ...
- Location
- Trumpistan
Naturally SV goes gaga for cosmonaut. Let's be a bit more original and not just go Soviet.
[X] [NAME] Keep Spacefarer
Inclusion is a funny one. It needs to be a core principle, but I don't think prioritizing it over the hard skills such as science or flight experience is a wise idea.
With how chaotic the first years of human space flight are, I think we need people with experience and know how to solve problems on their own.
Unfortunately, no amount of training will compensate for this. We can't even train them. They will need to build on existing experience to learn the ins and outs themselves. Gemini, Apollo, and Mercury series all had moments where the mission and the crew's lives were saved by onboard ingenuity and experience.
[X] [RIGHT STUFF] Science
[X] [RIGHT STUFF] Flight Experience
[X] [NAME] Keep Spacefarer
Inclusion is a funny one. It needs to be a core principle, but I don't think prioritizing it over the hard skills such as science or flight experience is a wise idea.
With how chaotic the first years of human space flight are, I think we need people with experience and know how to solve problems on their own.
Unfortunately, no amount of training will compensate for this. We can't even train them. They will need to build on existing experience to learn the ins and outs themselves. Gemini, Apollo, and Mercury series all had moments where the mission and the crew's lives were saved by onboard ingenuity and experience.
[X] [RIGHT STUFF] Science
[X] [RIGHT STUFF] Flight Experience
- Location
- The great frozen north
[X] [RIGHT STUFF] Size
As the option notes, this will have similar results in terms of getting historically marginalized groups, without being explicitly a diversity hire. And speaking of diversity, going for size will (beyond the mass constraint benefit) means the public image of our spacefarers will be something other than stereotypically masculine buff guys. It'd be nice variety.
And the environment and requirements of spaceflight are so unique compared to everything groundside that they'll need oodles of training anyway, even with a flight or scientific background.
[X] [NAME] Keep Spacefarer
Not a big fan, it feels a little down-low. Like we're just passing through the starry neighborhood and not making groundbreaking advances. But I'll approval vote it for now. I'd prefer
[X] [NAME] Pioneer
or something similarly socialist sounding but I don't want to split the vote. In any case, I'd like to use a term that makes sense to translate to other languages, and not just get transliterate like the OTL names (Which, in pointlessly mashing together languages historically considered prestigious by academia, also feel way too snooty for our Anarchist project).
As the option notes, this will have similar results in terms of getting historically marginalized groups, without being explicitly a diversity hire. And speaking of diversity, going for size will (beyond the mass constraint benefit) means the public image of our spacefarers will be something other than stereotypically masculine buff guys. It'd be nice variety.
And the environment and requirements of spaceflight are so unique compared to everything groundside that they'll need oodles of training anyway, even with a flight or scientific background.
[X] [NAME] Keep Spacefarer
Not a big fan, it feels a little down-low. Like we're just passing through the starry neighborhood and not making groundbreaking advances. But I'll approval vote it for now. I'd prefer
[X] [NAME] Pioneer
or something similarly socialist sounding but I don't want to split the vote. In any case, I'd like to use a term that makes sense to translate to other languages, and not just get transliterate like the OTL names (Which, in pointlessly mashing together languages historically considered prestigious by academia, also feel way too snooty for our Anarchist project).
10ebbor10
DON'T PANIC
- Location
- Present
Solve problems on their own =/= flight experience though.
Flight experience just means they survived the war, and weren't executed for (not) dropping atomics on a city. The actual overlap between spaceflight and military flight us limited. Heck, one could afgue that sailors would be better, as submariners know what it's like to be locked in a can with life support and can also do astronavigation.
Also, we have an airstrip and no manned rocket atm, flight experience is one of the easiest things for us to create. Just acquire a few trainers and maybe some surplus jets.
Last edited:
That's not how this works. You don't have the time and there's a very specific reason NASA recruited from test pilots because it does matter. It mattered s lot for several flights.
10ebbor10
DON'T PANIC
- Location
- Present
We absolutely have the time.
And NASA's test pilot culture caused as much problems as it solved. There's a reason they ditched it quite quickly.
The military "here is an order, go do it" culture simply doesn't work for the complex problems a spaceship might encounter, which require a far more cooperative, back and forth culture rather than the military hierarchy.
Last edited:
First: Citation required for "ditching the test pilot culture"
Second: CRM is a thing, yes, but that doesn't, at all, negate the point that Flight Experience is useful.
10ebbor10
DON'T PANIC
- Location
- Present
Just look it up? It's not hard to find. I'm on a metered network right now, soI can't do it right now.
I didn't deny flight experience is usefull. I just argued that it's not the primary concern, and that it's far more practical to create it in house, as opposed to doing phd's or cutting people down to size.
A flight school is a thing we can reasonably acquire with a few politics dice, or some PS.
There's also a big difference between flight experience and a military pilot culture.
Last edited:
- Pronouns
- Viewer
[X] [NAME] Keep Spacefarer
Okay, so you can't cite. But hey, I can do the legwork for you:
(2nd NASA corps)
So supports it, but also says "We'd like to get this started before we widen the pool."
Group 3, maybe? (1963) - drops test pilots, but that's because they needed flight time.
Hm.
Well, what about Group 4?
(1965)
... it took 6 years for NASA to stop selecting on that. You can kinda see why I do not think our first class should be neglecting this.
It wasn't until Group *6*, the people who would never fly due to budget cuts (but did form the core of the Space Shuttle program) that the test requirement was dropped. In 1967.
Now, you could argue, and I won't disagree, that there's certainly value of setting up a pilot program and test pilot program immediately so that you can add people who weren't in the first two pools soon, but for the *first orbital flights*? You're going to want to not have to add that as a variable. At least, to my thinking.
- Location
- Milky Way
[X] [RIGHT STUFF] Size