Hear me out, hear me out, if they have integer overflow, half + seven resets. /s
Path of the Immeasurable Swarm [Worm/Cradle]
- Thread starter derivativeoflife
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- Crossover
Roth963
If I become inactive with this massage, I died
I suspect that trying to clone stuff would not work because you need to be "unique" to get an icon, if Eithan cloned himself, he would likely get a new super genius, if he gave him all his information, this new eithan may be able to leverage that information to get pretty high, but he would need to do a lot of personal work to go as high as Eithan because Eithan's power is unique to him.
That still seems incredibly useful to mass produce super prodigies.
Roth963
If I become inactive with this massage, I died
Maybe the way doesn't play nice with clones? That seems like pretty obvious solution to Eithan's problems of not having equals, than again, for all we know, he did it and it didn't work, we know he had a bunch of children who regularly sent artists to heaven, and they weren't enough.
I wonder how Grace is holding up in crisis management hell. Is she still an Underlady or has she become an Overlady while off-screen? Maybe all that paperwork will help her become the Administrative Sage once she finally gets a break and time to process everything. Bonus points if she's bemoaning that it should have been the Sword icon instead.
Man Grace is out here being Taylor's aid and given how much work Taylor is doing and she's gone, Grace is overworked right now. She's in paperwork hell with Charity.
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"Look, when you really think about it, Bureaucracy has a lot in common with swords.
I think.
Maybe.
I might also just be sleep deprived." -Grace maybe
- Pronouns
- They/Them
The way I think of it, authority under the Way is kind of like authority in other contexts: there's only so much of it in any given context. The Cradle books mention the possibility of one of their Judges being killed so thoroughly that their mantle and everything else is also gone. This would necessitate a lesser member of that branch building the position back up from nothing.
But... if it can be built back up, why not build two to start with? It's because there can only be one the Wolf/Hound/Phoenix/etc. Trying to double the power of your Spider division by having two "the Spider"s is like trying to double the United Kingdom's military and economic might by naming two Prime Ministers.
Any trick to build out a whole bunch of cloned Monarchs I think is a trick that gets you one Monarch smeared into a bunch of bodies, by a similar analogy.
I know that's true in Nasuverse due to how mystery works but is it mentioned anywhere that's how it works in the Willverse?
- Pronouns
- They/Them
It's only implied, in the sections I'm referencing above. It's in the Abidan/Mad King sections of books 11 and 12. It is not explicitly stated, and no matter how much I like my neat and tidy theory, I don't want to mislead anyone into thinking it's actual WOG.
So, my mass cloning plan is still on the table?
Judges skilled in one of the following divisions, Wolf, Ghost or Fox, already have the the ability to fold copies of themselves out of pure possibility. But besides that the Way is absolute truth, I doubt you're fooling it into giving a clone of Ozriel the power of the Reaper the second it steps out of the vat. Talent also isn't entirely genetic given how vital willpower is and the comment Suriel makes about the descendants of monarch's rarely making it as far as their progenitors. A clone of Ozriel wouldn't have the same drive he did, nor experience the same circumstances that forged his will.
The fact that cloning technology exists within Fathom makes this idea even more unlikely in my mind as the Sanctum would have technology far more advanced.
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I get the sense that it would work, up to a point, as Will said on the nature of souls:
So I get the sense that while the cloning can't copy authority, since that's tethered to someone's origin, you can get a pretty good copy of someone's knowledge/intelligence/personality. But after that, the clone has to grow on its own and do its own training/reach its own insights.
Take the blood shadows for instance, Red Faith and Yerin both showed that if you take a blood shadow and feed it enough of your will and soulfire it'll make a passable copy, but it may not have affinity for the same icons, and won't be exactly the same.
You can also copy all of the memories and experiences of the original with Bonesaw's and Echidna's powers and I don't see logical reason you couldn't clone willpower as well (this does have the problem you are more likely to lose control over the clones).
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My point is even doing this with someone like Orziel would have immense value by mass producing prodigies even if they can't instantly get the same icons.
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Because Willpower isn't genetic?
The clones created by Echidna also get their memories which are also not genetic, and I would argue your memories and experiences are heavily tied to your willpower.
I would argue that Eithan implies memories are separate from Willpower in his Threshold chapter when his echo formed. And that echo only exists because of a metaphysical/conceptual impression he left.
Me when I abuse the infinite willpower glitch of viewing the same monarch dream tablet a trillion times. On a metalevel I doubt Will Wight intends for willpower to function in the manner you suggest. Ozriel's presence is a complete copy of his mind, what Lindon actively refers too as a clone, and granted independence so it would open up way to many holes in his story. It also goes against people having to earn their cosmic powers which was one of the reasons Will made the Way how it is.
What would happen if you could somehow split Ozriel into 2 Ozriel's with you not knowing which is original if there even is an original? I bring up this question because that is basically entity reproduction in Worm which could be relevant to Queen Administrator/Hera.
The problem is I really don't know if you could do that to a being like Ozriel. He exists just as, or more, conceptually as physically so I don't know how the Way would respond to that situation especially when you factor in Origins of Existence. The only thing I can see is if you somehow combined that with something like the Origin Shroud maybe? But even that that's more hiding/locking away parts of his Origin than cloning.
Another question I have is what about temporal cloning? Ozriel is not same across time so if you can time travel and bring things from the past you could bring a slightly different version of him for every plank instant assuming you had enough energy and precision.
If we use that example, we could endlessly copy his abilities since it only weakens power and toughness, so we could have an infinite number of 1/1 Ozriel's. Now I am wondering what kind of card he would be, my guess is either something Phage the Untouchable or not a card at all like full power oldwalkers or Yawgmoth.
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You would also need a card like mirror gallery to get around the legend rule
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