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Overlady: Attack of the Minions (Thread II)

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xeivous said:
Perhaps Louise has a very specific type of woman she likes? Henriette's body type, at least from my understanding of the descriptions of her in this story, are very much different from the other women Louise has met.
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I seem to recall that there was a historical Duchess Louise de La Vallière, she was known for being religious devote and being the mistress of theFrench king, Louis XiV ,that Herretta is a gender flipped version of(They even have the same regent in Cardinal Mazarin who historically was infamously greedy and drove the nobles and commoners into aopen royalist revolt against him and tho queen.)
 
Alane1 said:
I seem to recall that there was a historical Duchess Louise de La Vallière, she was known for being religious devote and being the mistress of theFrench king, Louis XiV ,that Herretta is a gender flipped version of(They even have the same regent in Cardinal Mazarin who historically was infamously greedy and drove the nobles and commoners into aopen royalist revolt against him and tho queen.)
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I'm sorry, but I'm failing to see your point.
 
Basically they were both inspired by people who were fobidden lovers, though admittedly the majority of the characters are based on people from the three musketeers and the royal court of the sun king.
 
EarthScorpion said:
Fortunately, an equitable resolution to the conflict was found where Pallas got to lie around Louise's neck like a feline feather boa and in return Louise was not viciously clawed by a cat. The overlady didn't feel it was a very equitable resolution, but that was just sour grapes on her part.
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This part is hilarious. I love Pallas.

EarthScorpion said:
She was lucky, apart from the whole bit where her fiancé had been a cheating treacherous weasel-dog who she was going to murder in cold blood for what he'd done.
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Details...

EarthScorpion said:
It'd probably be safer once it's known you're pregnant," Louise said, recalling sections from Gnarl's books on political assassinations.
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See? Books are useful things.

EarthScorpion said:
"I will ruin the demon in Montespan's body. Then I will destroy it. Then I will destroy Montespan."
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This is deliciously Evil.
 
Louise is right in the fact she is getting confused signals, but it's from her Good side as well. After all she has just rescued a princess from an evil person.

Both her Evil and Good agree "Marry her." but are still arguing about whether it was kidnap or rescue.
 
MinorGryph said:
Am I the only one who suspects she's the morality pet? Pallas didn't seem to like it when Louise began convincing Magdalene her Evil plan was the best option. Then again, cat. Could just be annoyed her slave was paying less attention to her.
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First off it's a cat, so it's automatically incredibly Evil. Secondly, it loves being played with the the hand Louise wears the Gauntlet on, even to the point of allowing bellyrubs. Thirdly it basically threatened it's way into attending the cult meeting.

I'm pretty sure ES has done everything that can be done to prove that Pallas is very much a right hand cat. The only way I can think of for Palls to further prove it's Evil cred would be to scratch the shit out of Karin.
 
sorry if this has been covered before, but if good guy groups usually have a Token Evil Teammate, do bad guys get to have a Token Good Teammate?
 
Dragontrapper said:
sorry if this has been covered before, but if good guy groups usually have a Token Evil Teammate, do bad guys get to have a Token Good Teammate?
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It is a thing that happens occasionally. Vir Cotto compared to the other the Centauri Republic bigwigs, Quetzalcoatl as the only Aztec god that didn't require human sacrifice, Finland among the Axis, etc.

In this fic, though? Only EarthScorpion can say for sure.
 
xeivous said:
First off it's a cat, so it's automatically incredibly Evil. Secondly, it loves being played with the the hand Louise wears the Gauntlet on, even to the point of allowing bellyrubs. Thirdly it basically threatened it's way into attending the cult meeting.

I'm pretty sure ES has done everything that can be done to prove that Pallas is very much a right hand cat. The only way I can think of for Palls to further prove it's Evil cred would be to scratch the shit out of Karin.
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Yeah but if natural alignment trumped learned behaviors 100% of the time Eleanore shouldn't be capable of doing any Good. It is possible for something to be self-centered, manipulative, and have an affinity for Evil magic without actively committing Evil acts.

Pallas hasn't really done anything I would view as Evil. I think Louise is just weak to cat manipulation, after all she could have punted Pallas instead of giving in and petting the first time. She's killed kittens and puppies before.
 
Dragontrapper said:
sorry if this has been covered before, but if good guy groups usually have a Token Evil Teammate, do bad guys get to have a Token Good Teammate?
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I think, in this fic, the best we're going to get is where Catt is at now. A bloodsucking predator towards all living things that is Evil by her very nature who happens to just be really nice.
MinorGryph said:
Yeah but if natural alignment trumped learned behaviors 100% of the time Eleanore shouldn't be capable of doing any Good. It is possible for something to be self-centered, manipulative, and have an affinity for Evil magic without actively committing Evil acts.

Pallas hasn't really done anything I would view as Evil. I think Louise is just weak to cat manipulation, after all she could have punted Pallas instead of giving in and petting the first time. She's killed kittens and puppies before.
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Doing Good and actually being Good are two different things. The Pragmatic Evil alignment has a significant base in doing Good for Evil reasons. IE: Save the hapless villagers from some lesser Evil so you can tax them to gain gold for your coffers, meat for your minions and lifeforce to make more minions. Also for them to worship you if you roll that way.
 
xeivous said:
First off it's a cat, so it's automatically incredibly Evil. Secondly, it loves being played with the the hand Louise wears the Gauntlet on, even to the point of allowing bellyrubs. Thirdly it basically threatened it's way into attending the cult meeting.

I'm pretty sure ES has done everything that can be done to prove that Pallas is very much a right hand cat. The only way I can think of for Palls to further prove it's Evil cred would be to scratch the shit out of Karin.
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Its a cat, they are beyond good and evil, cats are not measured by good or evil but by the very fact they are cats is the only true the answer to any act no matter how good or evil.
 
Dragontrapper said:
sorry if this has been covered before, but if good guy groups usually have a Token Evil Teammate, do bad guys get to have a Token Good Teammate?
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Kinda. Evil side generally has a different dynamic going on than a wandering group of heroes, so you're unlikely to find a situation where a Good person straight up works with the bad guys for reasons, but there are some options:

- a Good person being manipulated by the big bad to do Evil. Not sure if it really counts since it's not a true cooperation, but that's the closest you generally get to a truly Good person working with Evil;

- a sympathetic person who is going to be redeemed by the Good guys. Watch out for sympathetic reasons of joining the Evil side, lingering affection towards Good people (family, loved ones, etc.) and any reasons that person have for hating you personally that you've concealed (killed their family, loved ones, etc.). Those are typically the signs of future redemption arc. It's also a good idea to limit your lieutenants interactions with heroes, especially if anyone on the hero team doesn't have a love interest already;

- a "worthy opponent" type of person. They're still Evil but have some kind of honor code that may lead to them saving hero's life on occasion when leaving the hero to die would be "dishonorable." Prone to developing respect for heroes;

- quirky mini-bosses who tend to get away with a slap on the wrist at the end rather than dramatic death or what have you. Sometimes overlap with redeemable people, but can also be Evil all the way through, just pathetic and nonthreatening (or at least appear to be so). That's pretty much how Minions managed to outlive all of the Overlords before Louise.
 
illhousen said:
- a sympathetic person who is going to be redeemed by the Good guys. Watch out for sympathetic reasons of joining the Evil side, lingering affection towards Good people (family, loved ones, etc.) and any reasons that person have for hating you personally that you've concealed (killed their family, loved ones, etc.). Those are typically the signs of future redemption arc. It's also a good idea to limit your lieutenants interactions with heroes, especially if anyone on the hero team doesn't have a love interest already;
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Does that means that Louise will become the Token Evil Teammate from a future Hero Team?

Also, @EarthScorpion who was the Token Evil Teammate from Karin's group?
 
ShadowEMT said:
Does that means that Louise will become the Token Evil Teammate from a future Hero Team?
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Nah. I mean, it's a theoretical possibility, but it has little to do with redemption.

For one thing, Evil Overlords very rarely get redeemed, sad backstory or no sad backstory, unless they summon some ancient Evil and suddenly realize it's a bad idea, then go full "my God what have I done." That's assuming the ancient Evil doesn't just kill them.

For another, most redemption stories end in some sort of noble sacrifice and death.

And for those few who get redeemed and don't die, their alignment switches to Good, so they can't be the Token Evil Teammate anymore.

(By the way, the penalty for alignment shift is why they tend to lose most of their power and can no longer be a threat to the whole hero team. See? D&D is realistic.)
 
deadcrystal said:
Self-delusion has been kind of a heavy part of Louise's Schtick? She pretty consistently makes a rather heavy effort to not think about things when her actions/thoughts/feelings conflict with what her imparted ideas of society say is True. She rationalises pretty heavily about most everything she feels and does.

I actually seem to recall her being attracted to other women as well through the story and just not letting herself recognise that? I'd honestly have to do a full re-read to check. That and Louise in ZnT is hardly that straight either, but eh on that, I tried watching ZnT but gave up ten seconds in from the egregious anime-plots and fanservice which makes my blood boil.
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You know, while I wouldn't discount Louise being "just" bi and in-denial, it's not as though the story is absent of characters facing roles or urges thrust upon them by their predecessors. Henrietta's own introduction discusses the impact past generations of Evil Tyrants and Good Sovereigns have on her.

If we're talking about "struggling against the expectations of society", then this is a society built around the typical beats of a fairy tale/Tolkeinian fantasy/video game RPG story. Rather than the peasant or noble or woman or foreigner or bastard seeking to escape the restrictions of their class or gender or birth or race against a fantasy backdrop, the conflict is focused on the hero or villain or princess or miniboss or vizier or secret heir trying to escape the restrictions of their typical role within the story, at least partly metaphorically represented through those same societal roles.

Louise can be a Renaissance-era teenage girl struggling with feelings that her native culture tells her are wrong – and also a fantasy Evil Overlord struggling with feelings that her role thrusts upon her. They're both all mishmashed up, implicitly or otherwise, in this setting.
 
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illhousen said:
Nah. I mean, it's a theoretical possibility, but it has little to do with redemption.

For one thing, Evil Overlords very rarely get redeemed, sad backstory or no sad backstory, unless they summon some ancient Evil and suddenly realize it's a bad idea, then go full "my God what have I done." That's assuming the ancient Evil doesn't just kill them.

For another, most redemption stories end in some sort of noble sacrifice and death.

And for those few who get redeemed and don't die, their alignment switches to Good, so they can't be the Token Evil Teammate anymore.

(By the way, the penalty for alignment shift is why they tend to lose most of their power and can no longer be a threat to the whole hero team. See? D&D is realistic.)
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It depends on the setting I can think a number of settings where former evil overlords fall under the retired monster category rather than turning good and one video game even had a entire village of defeated villains... They weren't any less evil, simply retired as some of the local children found out when they got turned into animals.
 
Alane1 said:
It depends on the setting I can think a number of settings where former evil overlords fall under the retired monster category rather than turning good and one video game even had a entire village of defeated villains... They weren't any less evil, simply retired as some of the local children found out when they got turned into animals.
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To be fair, those kids were on my law- I mean... I have no idea how they got that way.
 
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