Remove ads

Overlady: Attack of the Minions (Thread II)

Reader mode
Maybe we are looking wrong at everything about Karin.

Years spent on Vallier lands.
Very tight self control with self imposed rules.
No open adventuring for years.

... She is corrupted, has been exposed to "evil is cool" and similar tropes. Taking care to not be tempted and to show evil side. She wouldn't kill Louise, but join or take over, "let me show you how to do this properly"...

... nah... not going to happen...
 
Meneldur said:
I thought we were discussing why Gnarl would want to do this. You yourself specifically mentioned him in your post.

Why Louise would want to do this? She doesn't. She let Cattleya come with her because she was desperate and lonely, she was very insistent on not corrupting Eleanore or killing her, but rather sending her back home to her parents. Heck, the only reason she keeps doing it (consciously, not counting the Gauntlet's corrupting influence) is because of her plan to restore Henrietta to the throne. We've seen it time and again, that Louise is (quite logically) scared shitless of what will happen when Karin finds out, so much so that she can't stand mention of her. Louise wants to avoid Karin at all costs, and is doing her best at it. When she doesn't, it's mostly because she can't see another path or is lonely and desperate.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...


Yeah, but why would Gnarrl be upset that his Overlord isn't trying to actively kill herself? I thought the whole thing with minions was that they needed a master. Or was I wrong?
 
Void spirit said:
Maybe we are looking wrong at everything about Karin.

Years spent on Vallier lands.
Very tight self control with self imposed rules.
No open adventuring for years.

... She is corrupted, has been exposed to "evil is cool" and similar tropes. Taking care to not be tempted and to show evil side. She wouldn't kill Louise, but join or take over, "let me show you how to do this properly"...

... nah... not going to happen...
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I was under the impression that she was retired from adventuring due to age, noble responsibilities, and having mothered three girls. And that she'd always had those rules. Plus the Valliere lands are significantly less tainted than they used to be. I mean they're by no means consecrated but there's only so much one can do to clean up territory so historically occupied by such villainous nobles.
 
xeivous said:
I was under the impression that she was retired from adventuring due to age, noble responsibilities, and having mothered three girls. And that she'd always had those rules. Plus the Valliere lands are significantly less tainted than they used to be. I mean they're by no means consecrated but there's only so much one can do to clean up territory so historically occupied by such villainous nobles.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I dunno...cleaning up those lands sounds like the work of generations to me...the sort of thing that Karin could spend every day of her life on, and still not do much more than make a dent in the whole mass of evil....
 
Hmm, given that the next arc is implied to be set in Albion, what are the chances that Gnarl will try to see the mantle of the Void passed over to Tiffania?

No, he's not plotting against the Overlady, he's just... planning for a stable line of succession. Yes, that's totally what he's doing. Can't let Eleanore have the position if the Overlady again, who knows what she might try this time.
 
Last edited:
My money's on Gnarl trying to pass the Void/Overlady mantle to Henrietta. Henrietta seems to completely lack the moral fiber and sanity holding Louise in check, and has proved very willing to cooperate with Gnarl and other Evil forces behind Louise's back. Additionally Henrietta's Evil ambitions are growing just as Louise shows warning signs of Actually Good Pretending To Be Evil instead of Delusional Evil like Gnarl previously thought.

Louise has even laid the groundwork for such a backstab by explicitly planning for Henrietta to 'defeat' the Overlady at the end of her plot.
 
Last edited:
MinorGryph said:
My money's on Gnarl trying to passing the Void/Overlady mantle to Henrietta. Henrietta seems to completely lack the moral fiber and sanity holding Louise in check, and has proved very willing to cooperate with Gnarl and other Evil forces behind Louise's back. Additionally Henrietta's Evil ambitions are growing just as Louise shows warning signs of Actually Good Pretending To Be Evil instead of Delusional Evil like Gnarl previously thought.

Louise has even laid the groundwork for such a backstab by explicitly planning for Henrietta to 'defeat' the Overlady at the end of her plot.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Yes but Henritetta's plan seems very likely to blow up in her face leaving her unable to backstab Louise.
 
MinorGryph said:
My money's on Gnarl trying to passing the Void/Overlady mantle to Henrietta.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I thought that was the gauntlet's plan actually. It did make a momentary pass at distracting Eleanore from going with her martyr plan with ravaging those that had put her in jail.

The gauntlet did not want to let go of Eleanore who was getting herself killed. Notably Pirate Louise wasn't the Overlady and Eleanore was dead. And Henrietta went absolutely off her rocker. (You know if Henrietta did end up without the void I'm quite amused that's everyone wasn't worried about Eleanore and Louise going old school Valiere when it's another branch of the family that goes old school Valiere.)

Hmm, I guess that the advice upon the fact that trying to turn someone good with the power of love doesn't guarantee it working could apply to Henrietta...
 
Last edited:
SpeckofStardust said:
Yes but Henritetta's plan seems very likely to blow up in her face leaving her unable to backstab Louise.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Win-win situation for Gnarl, if Henrietta's plan succeeds he has a mistress which surpasses the previous one in ambition and evidently ability, if it fails Louise loses her EZ-pass back to the side of Good and he can continue attempting to corrupt her to true Evil.
 
MinorGryph said:
Win-win situation for Gnarl, if Henrietta's plan succeeds he has a mistress which surpasses the previous one in ambition and evidently ability, if it fails Louise loses her EZ-pass back to the side of Good and he can continue attempting to corrupt her to true Evil.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
If Louise is Good then she will try to stop the Henrietta's plan because it's evil.
If Louise is evil then she will try to stop her plan because it is a danger to her own plans with the whole undead royalty making it effectively impossible for Henrietta to retake the throne.
 
I don't think there are really any current plans by Gnarl or the Gauntlet to knock Louise out of her position. As the former just witnessed a new overlady basically disregard the position entirely so she could commit suicide by time-travel and the latter just got somewhat cowed into behaving by Louise's own threatening. Gnarl is much better served in further corrupting Henriette before pushing her into the position of Mistress, so Louise would have a romantic entanglement that would pull her towards a more self-aware evil alignment that she is currently falling towards.
 
SpeckofStardust said:
If Louise is Good then she will try to stop the Henrietta's plan because it's evil.
If Louise is evil then she will try to stop her plan because it is a danger to her own plans with the whole undead royalty making it effectively impossible for Henrietta to retake the throne.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Louise's reasons for stopping Henrietta don't matter. The key thing here is that Gnarl gets Henrietta to completely fall to the side of Evil.

The final keystone of Louise's plan hinges on her ability to install Henrietta on the throne as the legitimate ruler of Tristain. If Henrietta proves herself an unfit leader by turning Psychotic Evil Despot as forewarned of by future!Louise, the only Good aligned person who can vouch for Louise as Good Pretending To Be Evil as opposed to Evil Pretending To Be Good is Eleanore... whom most people are convinced is secretly evil.

This would be a crushing blow to any aspirations of returning to Good in the future without being stabbed to death. Gnarl would view this as a prime opportunity to rebuild his Overlady's presumably crushed delusions of Good into proper Evil angsting.

Of course with Louise being Louise this setback wouldn't actually manage to crush her dreams and she'd continue trying to do Good, save the world, obtain Love Interest, etc while Gnarl congratulated himself on his corruption skills.
 
MinorGryph said:
Louise's reasons for stopping Henrietta don't matter. The key thing here is that Gnarl gets Henrietta to completely fall to the side of Evil.

The final keystone of Louise's plan hinges on her ability to install Henrietta on the throne as the legitimate ruler of Tristain. If Henrietta proves herself an unfit leader by turning Psychotic Evil Despot as forewarned of by future!Louise, the only Good aligned person who can vouch for Louise as Good Pretending To Be Evil as opposed to Evil Pretending To Be Good is Eleanore... whom most people are convinced is secretly evil.

This would be a crushing blow to any aspirations of returning to Good in the future without being stabbed to death. Gnarl would view this as a prime opportunity to rebuild his Overlady's presumably crushed delusions of Good into proper Evil angsting.

Of course with Louise being Louise this setback wouldn't actually manage to crush her dreams and she'd continue trying to do Good, save the world, obtain Love Interest, etc while Gnarl congratulated himself on his corruption skills.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Weren't there people who saw her riding a unicorn which try to murder, death, kill, anyone who isn't good and a virgin?
 
Arcus2611 said:
Pfft, like being Evil has ever stopped anyone from holding the throne before.

I'm sure Henrietta can dig up precedent from somewhere.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Alane1 said:
Weren't there people who saw her riding a unicorn which try to murder, death, kill, anyone who isn't good and a virgin?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Nah, I was talking about unfit by Louise's standards. She won't willingly put Henrietta on the throne if the Princess engages in the kind of fucks-over-everyone Evil Louise doesn't approve of.
 
MinorGryph said:
Nah, I was talking about unfit by Louise's standards. She won't willingly put Henrietta on the throne if the Princess engages in the kind of fucks-over-everyone Evil Louise doesn't approve of.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I think the bar for what Henriette can do before Louise would actually change her plans is pretty low, as Gnarl would put it. Especially given that her main worry is about a Henriette who pulled some shit after just shy of everything went to hell in a literal, rather than the normal figurative, way. Plus that assumes that Louise sticks with her plan to fake her death and let Henriette rescue her. If Louise gives up on that idea, much is going to change about what Louise is willing to let Henriette get up to before getting stuck on the throne, especially if it lets her take the throne next to her.
 
Maybe, in the end, Louise will go through her plan - just without the "Rescue of Louise le Blanc de la Valliere" part, to better influence Henrietta (somehow, don't ask me)...
Only to be foiled by vengeful Eleanore.
 
So, @EarthScorpion, I finally managed to catch up on Overlady.

You managed to salvage the arc from the nadir of Eleanore's memetic meanness in the Usurpation of Power chapter to a satisfying conclusion, exploring both the little touched-upon relationships of the eldest and youngest sister, the general past of the de la Vallieres and the characters of Louise and Eleanore, which was quite pleasing.

And I really do mean that. The sacrifice involved in this is, for once, not the self-deluding I-do-this-for-the-greater-good that has propelled Louise throughout most of this story but her giving up her one big dream, giving up her untainted birthright of Lightning and socially acceptable magic for the sake of a sister she has never liked, nor gotten along with. It's a genuinely noble act further enhanced in its impact by the immediate and severe tonal shift upon Louise re-acquiring the evils of the world.

Further enhanced, of course, by Louise still going unfulfilled in every sense of the word. The slow downwards spiral of Cattleya (or the Cattleya-shaped thing) and of Henrietta and the Gnarl's presence provides a good stopper at the end of the chapter, as the gnawing frustration - the gnawing lack of fulfillment - has always been a great way to keep the reader waiting for the next bit, to see if maybe this time Louise will finally get to do... anything, really, from the long list of things we could call fulfilling for her.

There are downsides, of course. The Amstreldamme part of Overlady dragged on, got to the point of 11-5. More than that, the way it flowed meant that for a long time, the only compelling side character was Magdalene, who has grown to be my favourite in the story in no small part because of my fondness of the human story of duty (magically enforced or not). What more, the previous side stars of the story - Maggat's bunch, who have reliably been good for a chuckle or a laugh - have gotten increasingly less screentime. Perhaps unavoidable as the scope of the story grows, but even so, I do quite miss the days of Igni as the face of the red minions. Char Guevara and the honestly bland communism jokes don't hold up to that.

I think, all things considered, Realignment has been one of the better stages of the story, not just because of how far it managed to rise but of how it ended.
 
Cornuthaum said:
What more, the previous side stars of the story - Maggat's bunch, who have reliably been good for a chuckle or a laugh - have gotten increasingly less screentime. Perhaps unavoidable as the scope of the story grows, but even so, I do quite miss the days of Igni as the face of the red minions. Char Guevara and the honestly bland communism jokes don't hold up to that.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...


I really gotta disagree with you on this part. The elite minions have had as much screentime as they needed, as their purpose is something that I see as being very particular. While they, like their fellow minions, are equal parts muscle and comic relief, focusing on the elite minions is something I'm almost certain that ES only does for the specific instances where their perspective the absolutely the best for the plot to move forward. Times where Louise is incapacitated in some form, or is generally ignorant of things going on like when Gnarl stole the results for the Cabal awards so he could double Louise's funds. Having them star just enough that one is quite please to see that things have turned to a Minionly perspective instead of annoyed like when the Heroes get their interludes is what makes the minion perspective great. I don't think that it really has anything to do with the scope of the story growing or it's cast expanding. However I will grant you that Char isn't as good as Igni, and I halfway suspect it's supposed to be a joke about replacement characters not being as good as the killed-off originals.
 
Wait... This is still going?!?

AAAAAAAAAARRRRRGGGH! DKA all over again! WHY MUST WE WAIT?!?!

That's it. I'm stealing Eleanor's dark gods so I can go to the future, read DKA and Overlady, and spoil everything to ES and Pusakuronu!
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top