EvilPorygon
Cookie Monster
- Location
- a phone
You should challenge Joseph to a coffee drinking contest next time, Shade.
Infinite Coffee WorksYou should challenge Joseph to a coffee drinking contest next time, Shade.
Medieval statis?
Airships, peasant literacy, and muskets are things in Halkeginia!
Siesta's modest library?Peasant literacy? Um. I missed this one, sorry. Where was it mentioned?
The idea of mundane technological progress proceeding in a linear and constantly-escalating pattern is the kind of thing they teach grade school kids, but a closer look at history shows it's completely bogus. It's a conceit that modern people put up as fact, along with ideas like 'progress is inevitable' and 'technology can solve every problem'. The histories of China, Egypt, and Rome pretty well indicate frequent and celebrated technological renaissances... which accomplished jack squat, because there's no economic incentives in place. And then the money ran out for baubles, and they were forgotten.Overall, it feels like...mundane technological progress went slightly slower, but not ridiculously so, than IRL, magic haven't really managed to beat any feat of its founder (which is one problem) and haven't produced visible effect on non-magical technological progress, except airships (problem two). No progress of purely magical thought and almost no progress of mixed magical-and-mundane thought sounds like "medieval stasis".
Infinite Coffee Works
Let's go and ramp him up with maximum coffee!
Derflinger is A) an elvish invention and B) jumps bodies. He is not an indicator of superior blacksmith techniques and enchantments from human mages 6000 years ago.They have a floating island, airship for them is lesser deal than IRL. Though they have actually big ones...
Peasant literacy? Um. I missed this one, sorry. Where was it mentioned?
Muskets are recent innovation, true.
My biggest problem with all this is that in 6000 years they haven't found anything on par with Brimir's old bullshit. Derflinger is OP(which means that Brimir was better at blacksmithing than 6000 years of progress ever managed), runes which make familiar more skiled and resilient are OP, Void magic shitstomps any other kind - and 6000 years of magical research haven't found anything nearly in the same league. That's kind of similar to how "magical medieval stasis" looks like, I think.
Overall, it feels like...mundane technological progress went slightly slower, but not ridiculously so, than IRL, magic haven't really managed to beat any feat of its founder (which is one problem) and haven't produced visible effect on non-magical technological progress, except airships (problem two). No progress of purely magical thought and almost no progress of mixed magical-and-mundane thought sounds like "medieval stasis".
A tsunami of boiling coffee.Infinite Coffee Works
Let's go and ramp him up with maximum coffee!
Void magic doesn't work at all like normal one and for all idiocy of magocracy in FoZ Brimir really was nearly godlike. He made familiars with mastery of all weapons, even those nonexistent in Halk, and all magical items, again, presumably even those from other dimensions. That isn't exactly omniscience of course, but even that limited access to Akasha is quite impressive. Is it explained in cannon where Brimir originated from, or was he just random genius kid born with baggage of bullshit?My biggest problem with all this is that in 6000 years they haven't found anything on par with Brimir's old bullshit. Derflinger is OP(which means that Brimir was better at blacksmithing than 6000 years of progress ever managed), runes which make familiar more skiled and resilient are OP, Void magic shitstomps any other kind - and 6000 years of magical research haven't found anything nearly in the same league. That's kind of similar to how "magical medieval stasis" looks like, I think.
IIRC, Brimir was just born with a mutation that gave him access to Void magic instead of the elemental system that was standard in his tribe. The elves believe that the Void is a perversion of the natural order. They refer to it multiple times as a corruption. However, the elves were unfamiliar with the Void before Brimir took up genocide as a hobby, so its unclear whether that is elvish prejudice speaking or if Void magic really is an inherently destructive force. The latter would explain why Brimir tried to use his genocide spell on the elves even though Sasha, his Gandalfr and possibly his lover, was an elf. The former is also possible because prior to Brimir's birth, humanity was on the bottom of the food chain in Halkeginia. Brimir supposedly regretted having to wipe out entire races, but did what was necessary to prevent humanity from going extinct.Is it explained in cannon where Brimir originated from, or was he just random genius kid born with baggage of bullshit?
No it isn't weird, we are just reading too much into a social position. Nothing would change If there are only a few mages showing up in commoner families, as it could be very rare based on how things are set up(for instance if the gift 'nourishment' as a child), since that doesn't mean the person remains in that family since family is a social construct.Yes, of course it must be recessive, if it was dominant trait everybody would be mage, nobody discusses this one. That's not really enough though.
IRL, for example, blue eyes are recessive trait, and they are still everywhere, even if they aren't offering their wielder any competitive advantage, let alone such a big one like magic. Given that even the shittiest healer or earth mage would be treasured by his community like a godsend(in their mythology he sort of would be), with all this entails, I'd say that "not a single not-noble mage" is extremely weird situation.
*snip about socioeconomic prerequisites of technological progress"
Normal elemental mages can't help further development of Void magic at all. However while they have gotten weaker as individual mages due to living standards no longer being "constant life or death struggle to survive", society, magictech, and regular tech have all clearly progressed past what was available 6000 years ago. Which was stone age nomadic tribal societies and tech.
Tribal nomads and stone age? When elves knew enough about metallurgy to create Derflinger (which is basically sword with spirit stuffed inside)? That's, like, iron workings, not stone age. Body-hopping changes it though...was his first body sharpened stick or what?
Except when his wife gets a mouthful."Go with Joseph, or Prince. Don't bother with the address, it's a mouthful, and I don't like mouthfuls," J
The guys Brimir was fighting at the time had armies outfitted with plate or chainmail armor IIRC.
The enemies were so superior in comparative technology and numbers that Brimir's people and the elves were literally World Gating their populations away from battles to survive. Even if they did steal the knowledge of the tech, there was no time or place to start producing it for their own side....which of course weren't copied because acquiring enemy's technology is totally not a reasonable thing to do and they never captured a single enemy competent enough to tell them how to forge this shit. Yeah, right, that makes sense...wait, where are those metal guys 6000 years later?
...which of course weren't copied because acquiring enemy's technology is totally not a reasonable thing to do and they never captured a single enemy competent enough to tell them how to forge this shit. Yeah, right, that makes sense...wait, where are those metal guys 6000 years later?
Karin & Tabitha stories are great because they're completely lacking the harem nonsense.So, would people who read ZnT recommend me the LNs? I only watched the anime years ago.
Not necessarily. Derflinger is a spirit that eats magic, that is the only part that needs to originate from elf tech. What body he was in when first created is completely irrelevant. It could be something as primitive as a sharpened bone dagger.Okay, I forgot about Derflinger being elvish sword, my bad. Were all powerful magical items of similar origins (Brimir himself or elves)?
Tribal nomads and stone age? When elves knew enough about metallurgy to create Derflinger (which is basically sword with spirit stuffed inside)? That's, like, iron workings, not stone age. Body-hopping changes it though...was his first body sharpened stick or what?
That doesn't follow. All that is required for an Elf-Markey alliance is for the enemy faction to be superior to both of them. They don't need to be comparable technologically at all, heck since it was Void magic that helped them win humans could have been way more primitive and still seem like appealing allies.It was noted that elves are gud in magic, but the whole Brimir's big idea was to protect from enemies who were really higher tech than both humans end elves, so technologically those two races were relatively in the same league. Also, Brimir left rings and mirror which require mundane technology a bit better than stone age one. Or he did it purely with magic, and Void Magic is also the only one which can craft stuff. Only Myoz then somehow acquires ton of presumably non-Void magical tools while not a single other mage ever uses them, so that idea doesn't work either. So...it wasn't all stone age.
It wasn't warring that made them strong individually, it was the primitive society that enabled Darwinism. There was no support structure in place for a mage that couldn't become strong and protect themselves. If a mage didn't have the potential to reach full Square they likely weren't going to survive in a deathworld full of dragons, orcs, ect. let alone a war campaign.Thing about "no constant struggle to survive made them weak" is just weird. Wars are devastating and screw economy in all the wrong ways, in addition to taking lives of able-bodied men, thus screwing things more.
If you refuse to accept flying sailboats powered by magic rocks as magictech this conversation will go nowhere.Magictech? Where? Besides the airships. And Myoz.
Okaay, I just dived into wiki and guess what? Some humans, albeit heavily modified (human modifications exist! Do Halkeginians even know concept of "gene"? Or concept of "sterilization", for that matter?) are capable of using elvish magic! Also, there is this list of Brimirian artifacts, but not a single one was produces since that time. Again, no magitech/10, no artifacts/10. To be fair, humans did progress from being only able to use triangle and higher-tier spells in groups to solo casting those, so it's not all bad, but still.
And here is an example of Eleonore demonstrating her strong moral fiber in the face of temptationShe casually took the document that she had just ravaged. It was sent this morning.
"The heck?......this time I got hit?"
On the paper was her appointed research topic, which was also quite a peculiar topic.
"'A magical item that could release Alchemy for a substantial period of time' ? What the heck are those people trying to do to me, the one in charge of the Founder's sculpture?"
"I like bitterness," I said gently. "And sourness," I continued. "The aftertaste is also pretty strong. I think I am in love of this," I said in a whisper, the cheesy pick-up line born of my Italian heritage coming up swiftly afterwards, "just like I am in love of you."