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Noblesse Oblige [Znt/SI]

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Random Shinobi said:
So... I assume he just got disinherited? I mean, there's no way his parents, who are hardcore loyalists, would allow the Valliere lands to pass on to the Gallian Crown. All hail the future Duchess Eleonore?

And doesn't he become prince consort and not king if he marries that Gallian princess? As far as I understand, Gallian inheritance laws allow queen regnants...
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Well, considering that he's evidently being married in matrilinearly (That, or they're really insulting his intelligence by claiming he'll get anything out of this), then yeah, he only gets to keep whatever fiefdoms he already holds. They'll just give the Ducal title to Eleanore.
 
shadenight123 said:
I

Of course, rather than say 'Prince-Consort' better to say 'king' to sweeten the deal. Karin's thoughtful like that.
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And the fact she thought she needed to sweeten the deal with a straight up lie even after he proved he knows his shit and would still do his duty is a good sign of just how disconnected she actually is (Or just how much on autopilot she was in that discussion, that even when presented with evidence to the contrary, she Stayed the Course and made things a hundred times worse.)
 
yinko said:
Plus, he gets to be king. Kind of tips over the entire plot.
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For the benefit of those of us who don't speak Japanese, there are three people in that picture who are neither male nor Charlotte/Tabitha. While I feel safe in ruling out the only sane appearing one of the three, that still doesn't make it clear who Henry is engaged to.

Andmeuths said:
. Then again, I imagine he'd rather not be remotely involved in the carnal house of reeking sewage that's Gallian Royal Politics.
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Carnal is used to refer to matters of the flesh, particularly but not exclusively those of a sexual nature. A carnal house has absolutely nothing to do with sewage, and might as well be called a brothel. What you may have meant was a charnel house, as the word is a reference to the smell of death, as one might find in any medieval sewer.

Then again, anything to do with royal politics by nature is something of a brothel, so it's not like you were totally inaccurate.

defenestrator said:
Myononatanir
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Gandalfr, Lifdrasir, Myoznitirn, and Windalfr are the most common spellings/pronunciations I've seen. Proper accent marks/umlauts/symbols at your discretion, for I cannot be arsed on my American standard laptop keyboard.
 
Oh man, you write well. Enough that I'm fucking hating Karin, and feeling a bit like watching a horror movie as I shout at your SI "Christ, man, this is all you've got left! FIGHT IT WITH ALL YOU CAN!"

But then again you know what you're doing so I eagerly await the next installment.
 
shadenight123 said:
Isabella is the daughter of the future-mad king Joseph.

She is his only child, thus...she is the next in line for the throne. Even if we went through the feudal idea of a non-matriarchal line, the only way for her to not inherit would be for Joseph to live long enough for Tabitha to marry someone else, have a male son, and the marriage between Henry and Isabella to bring out only daughters.
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Hang on, this is confusing. How is Isabella able to be Joseph's heir once he murders his brother and becomes king, but Charlotte is not able to be her father's (the present King) heir now? The situation is exactly the same, a male king with a daughter. What makes Isabella the heir but not Charlotte?

Joseph's elder brother is currently King, and the brother is both married and has a child (Charlotte). If the line of inheritance is patriarchal, Joseph being the heir makes sense. But if it's strictly patriarchal, than Isabella cannot be directly in line for the throne, and either holds it in trust for any son she produces or the throne is passed to whomever she marries, yes?
 
You know what makes this better?
If I recall correctly, didn't his dad run away from his family to marry Karin for the sake of love.
 
Akritedes said:
Hang on, this is confusing. How is Isabella able to be Joseph's heir once he murders his brother and becomes king, but Charlotte is not able to be her father's (the present King) heir now? The situation is exactly the same, a male king with a daughter. What makes Isabella the heir but not Charlotte?

Joseph's elder brother is currently King, and the brother is both married and has a child (Charlotte). If the line of inheritance is patriarchal, Joseph being the heir makes sense. But if it's strictly patriarchal, than Isabella cannot be directly in line for the throne, and either holds it in trust for any son she produces or the throne is passed to whomever she marries, yes?
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No?

The king is Robespierre the third, who is the father of both Joseph and Charles. Joseph is the eldest child and, by right of blood and yaddayadda, actually the rightful king. Only, he's considered incompetent and everyone would prefer his younger brother on the throne because he's such a precious kid he became a Square mage at thirteen, or something like that.

Cue near-civil war breaking out between the two sides that is solved only when, after the king nominates Joseph as his successor (three years before the start of Canon, folks, so not happened yet) results in Joseph doing actually quite the wise thing and murdering his younger brother with a poisoned arrow in order to make the civil war cease on its tracks.
 
Akritedes said:
Hang on, this is confusing. How is Isabella able to be Joseph's heir once he murders his brother and becomes king, but Charlotte is not able to be her father's (the present King) heir now? The situation is exactly the same, a male king with a daughter. What makes Isabella the heir but not Charlotte?

Joseph's elder brother is currently King, and the brother is both married and has a child (Charlotte). If the line of inheritance is patriarchal, Joseph being the heir makes sense. But if it's strictly patriarchal, than Isabella cannot be directly in line for the throne, and either holds it in trust for any son she produces or the throne is passed to whomever she marries, yes?
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Because Joseph is a guy that means that he takes priority over any female heirs. Once he has it it then goes to his children without male heirs. If Joseph died before his brother does then it will go to Tabitha before Isabella.
 
Akritedes said:
Joseph's elder brother is currently King, and the brother is both married and has a child (Charlotte). If the line of inheritance is patriarchal, Joseph being the heir makes sense. But if it's strictly patriarchal, than Isabella cannot be directly in line for the throne, and either holds it in trust for any son she produces or the throne is passed to whomever she marries, yes?
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That's because Joseph is the older brother.
 
shadenight123 said:
"No, but life altering decisions taken without my consent do make me reach my limits," I pointed out. "The sad thing is, I can actually understand that the idea of a civil war erupting between the Duke D'Orleans and his older brother is quite a vivid and possible happenstance that must be avoided at all costs, and by marrying the eldest male of the la Valliere to Gallia, it creates an alliance on par with that of marrying the princess Henrietta to Germania's noble lines- and this in turn means that if there were nobles against the eldest son as king, their war might find them enemies of practically all of Halkeginia," I said quite calmly. "I understand that both kings, seeking a way to avoid needless conflicts, brought up ironclad safeties they could latch on in the name of peace, especially with how the discontent in Albion is going on, and the weakening thus of the alliance between our country and the flying island."

I actually managed to pour myself another glass of liquor, nobody daring to stop me as I drank it whole in one shot.

"Now...how far off the mark was I?" I asked, my voice barely restraining my seething anger.
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Eh, if all of that is really true than what makes him think his parents had a choice in the matter either? His family may have delivered the bad news but the Royals are the ones who will benefit from treating him like a stud horse.

Alectai said:
He wouldn't be King, he's be Prince-Consort. A title that has no actual power in itself except in so far as sharing the bedroom with royalty. More importantly, this only happens if Isabella inherits the throne, which is pretty unlikely as she's rather far down on the inheritance list.
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If Isabella turned out to be an incompetent ruler like Joseph, Henry would effectively have all the responsibilities and powers of a King. And hell even if she was an active and competent ruler, he could have a lot of influence from whispering in the Queen's ear- spouse is a pretty ideal job for a power-behind-the-throne type manipulator.
 
MinorGryph said:
Eh, if all of that is really true than what makes him think his parents had a choice in the matter either? His family may have delivered the bad news but the Royals are the ones who will benefit from treating him like a stud horse.


If Isabella turned out to be an incompetent ruler like Joseph, Henry would effectively have all the responsibilities and powers of a King. And hell even if she was an active and competent ruler, he could have a lot of influence from whispering in the Queen's ear- spouse is a pretty ideal job for a power-behind-the-throne type manipulator.
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More of a kneejerk. Remember, he never said he wouldn't do it, just that he wasn't going to pretend (In private), that he liked that it was done.

It doesn't help then that Karin lied to his face when he already proved he had a good understanding of politics, he snapped back, and she escalated with an implicit murder threat. She might have done it to try and make the deal sound sweeter, but that bit sounded almost rehearsed given the fact she said it that way instead of actually treating him like someone who actually had studied the situation well enough to have seen this whole thing coming, and explained why.

She may have been doing it to be nice, but she spends all of this time acting like no faults can ever be expected, and then she tries treating him like a no-nothing knee-jerking kid despite the fact she didn't need to.

Part of why I'm pretty sure she rehearsed this whole thing ahead of time because she doesn't like it either, but her whole thing is "Never show even the smallest mote of weakness, even in the face of your children/family.", so she didn't double back or go on instinct even though that was a bad idea. Because she might have stumbled then, and it's better to be wrong then it is to show weakness in that kind of mindset. Because sufficiently competent incorrectness can mitigate a lot of mistakes, but if you're weak, even if you're right, you won't get people trusting your judgement.
 
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I definitely see the logic in this betrothal, but I can't help wishing Henry was engaged to Charlotte/Tabitha. I knew the Henrietta ship was never gonna sail. :cry:
 
Now I wan Henry to "off the reservation" and rebel hard. I want to see Karen suffer. Like seriously, she's pushing him into a marriage by force. That's not how you get someone (with our modern way of thinking) to cooperate, it just widens the gap between the two parties. This can only end in fire now. :rage::rage::rage:
 
shadenight123 said:
"It is her grace," Pierre continued, and I already felt quite faint. No, no, you can't do this to me, not princess Henrietta, she's like, what, the same age of Louise? That's-"princess Isabella of Gallia."

My brain halted.
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Huh, Isabella? Didn't expect that to be honest, thought it would be either Kirche or Henrietta. Hell, even Matilda passed my mind since she is the lawful daughter of the Archduke of Albion, which would tie the Vallieres with the blood of two royal families and give them reason to establish martial law via Heavy Wind interference.

Still, Isabella..... is actually not that bad. I mean she is nine and all, but that means that you won't get pushed for an heir any time soon and can get some leverage over the Gallian throne. Her father is nutter than bolts, but he will probably not give a digit of a fuck about you, which gives you time to plot his imminent demise. Next is Tabitha and more importantly Josette, who should inherit Joseph's Void Magic, should he meet an "unfortunate accident". Both very powerful mages and by manipulating caring for them, gets you their undying trust.

Also, IIRC, Josette's familiar will be Julio, which gives you access to the Pope, his shiny Void Magic and his very big and expansive vault with otherworldly weapons and other assorted goodies.

Lastly, either you become King-Regent (Isabella being too young) and rule Gallia, aka the second largest country in Halkeginia or Charles inherits the throne, which gives you time to plot for whatever canon brings a couple years in the future.

If Reconquista comes despite your attempts, they are easy to counter. Just prove Cromwell is a liar and a cheat (easy without support from Sheffield), show that Wales is a Void Mage (Tiffania can modify their memories to think that Wales did the magic) and by assosiation of being the King's son, the rightful heir to the Albion throne. Have him forgive Matilda and name her Archduchess of Albion. Maybe engage Matilda to the Germanian emperor and Henrietta to Wales and voila! Apart from Romalia, you have all the human-civilized countries sticking together like glue.

Of course, it's easier said than done, but Henry's current situation is far from bad and he could use it to his advantage. Hell, if it gets his fancy, he can get mistresses for himself and nobody will bat an eye. I know that Shade would never do that, but it still means he has the right to do it and it means he is free to do so.

So Heavy Wind or not, Greatest Square Wind Mage and whatnot, Henry has the biggest army and the mightest fleet at his side, which means he has the FREEDOM to do whatever he wants!
 
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Ya'll Karin haters do realize that "Best Dad" Pierre was the one who set up the marriage, right? As far as I can tell Karin's main sin in that scene was sending Henry to his room for perceived backtalk.
 
This whole thing makes me think how in the world Familiar of Zero got so popular, when both Louise and Karin are so hate-able. They're actually Joffrey Baratheon levels of hate-able.

The entire fic Henry was kind of sort of in a familial relationship with his mother that was on the positive side, if only slightly because of all the strictness. Sure, I and a lot of people would snarl at that, but not the Protagonist and I can respect that. Violence is one hell of a motivation to shape your behavior (I would know, I grew up with abusive parents. It makes me rage at Karin extra hard).

But now this is happening. No way out. Henry will probably go through with the marriage, and end up being a member of Joseph's family... and then what?

I'm not sure how it's going to go down, but Henry doesn't strike me as the type to leave things well enough alone.
 
MinorGryph said:
Ya'll Karin haters do realize that "Best Dad" Pierre was the one who set up the marriage, right? As far as I can tell Karin's main sin in that scene was sending Henry to his room for perceived backtalk.
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We know that. it's just the way Karen "enforced" the decision that i'm are angry at her about. She is being a dick about it tbh. Everyone knows the marriage is justifiable and honesty needed, but she doesn't need to rub it in.
 
Aurain said:
We know that. it's just the way Karen "enforced" the decision that i'm are angry at her about. She is being a dick about it tbh. Everyone knows the marriage is justifiable and honesty needed, but she doesn't need to rub it in.
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What's worse is that the rubbing it in wasn't even needed. Again, he was willing to accept it--he was getting bitched at because he didn't blindly walk into it with arms outstretcehd.

Very much a "I'm not angry at what you said, I'm angry at the fact you're not happy to do it"
 
Uh, at least Shade got to be king? To be frank, that's probably the only silver lining I got for Henry.

Still, the battle is on now, Henry. You're entering the Gallian Court here. Words, favors, and relationships might be the most used weapons, but the amount of blood spilled there rivalled a battlefield.

Whoa, that was some pretty good line I came up with! Anyway, time to put those modern nihilistic mindset to good use.
 
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