Well, she would be in control of her moments to the same degree that she was before (the safe exposure rate), she would just have to schedule her movements a little in advance.
I do agree that the rules for clearing other girls out of her aura during class 3 attacks are over the top though. Announcing our presence is fine, but her girls certainly shouldn't be risking themselves to drag lost idiots out of the way.
I bring up that any significant deviation from the cabin, in the baseline plan, requires immediate approval from a designated observer. She has effectively no control of her own movements in that sense. The psychology of it is that
we control your movements, and that is reinforced by the idea that she needs to have a particularly long walk cleared in advance (with the potential to be declined).
Oh no. You've misunderstood. The rules for clearing other girls out require us to use
our girls, not hers, to announce her presence, before the aura is even physically capable of affecting them.
I provided baseline management rules that people can then discuss. The baseline was selected to deal with Haman's issues. I specifically eliminated points that I deemed likely to set Haman off again. If you can't understand the reason for that baseline, go re-read the last few pages of the thread.
The management rules were detailed enough that you should be able to select individual items for discussion and argument, rather than rant about all the evils of the entire plan. If you want to move the needle on one of the rules, then specify the rule and make an argument for what you would change, and why. Rants are not effective, except perhaps as a way to shut down all discussion.
And, I must repeat, there are some questions that we can't answer until we know more about Serena herself.
As a baseline this is beyond too much, almost universally. Psychologically, the rules are designed to put her in a prison supposedly designed to stop the big scary monster from accidentally hurting anyone, and that's almost definitely the way she, and
most of our own girls, will see it, even if we overblew the risks she presented to them and exaggerated so badly it might as well be lying to them.
The misconceptions of how dangerous she is from contact are so bad I feel the need to bring up the post that spiraled into the most outrage in the first place.
Serena tries not to spend more than a sleep cycle in the same place. That much exposure usually isn't dangerous for a human, unless the person had problems to begin with: just the typical low off a high. For a magical girl even that much exposure warrants monitoring for a few days in case of problems, but those with a support system are usually fine. Chronic exposure studies are seriously lacking: she tends to go to the same place with no less than 3 months between and they haven't noticed any noticeable build up of effects, but they have no real controlled studies on the effects.
Withdrawal effects are mostly in line with normal human depression. Lethargy, hopelessness, change in appetite. Essentially the result of making someone believe that the world loved them and their every hope and dream would be fulfilled, and then taking that away and confronting them with the harsh truths of reality. With only normal short term exposure these feelings fade within a few days.
A number of things can be inferred from these paragraphs, the first of which is that even to the detriment of personal comfort, even the
smallest amounts, Serena is willing to be self-sacrificing in order to protect other meguca from the effects of addiction. The vast majority of experimentation with the effect probably comes from passive incubator observation rather than her screwing around with it. I.E. she is
already afraid to test the limits of it's addictive properties for any reason. If one of our girls decided to have a party with her, Serena herself would be more likely to push them away than we would to pull them.
Second, an exposure time of 8 hours is almost exceedingly long compared to almost any form of interaction we'd have with her, and that only warrants half a week of observation, and more resembles a natural over-time mood shift than anything else. It's literally the
bad week vibe. Even if we didn't limit our girls' physical visiting time to once every season, again, Serena herself would be more likely to deny the contact than we are.
My issue with it is more that you're imposing a bunch of rules to limit a person who would be more likely to enforce them herself as conditions to join us than we are, but the act of
us imposing them rather than
her enforcing her own standards is what's likely to cause the most problems. If she sees us as Big Brother who just wants to make sure she doesn't hurt anyone, but can still use her powers to fix things, that won't foster emotional relationships, nor will it foster any sort of loyalty, primarily because she does a
damn fine job all things considered handling all that herself. The
only thing we can offer her is regular contact with a single group, rather than seasonal contact with dozens of groups. The fact that elements of the thread OOC believes wholeheartedly that we can offer her anything more than that as some misguided thought that we're improving her life is a delusional control-freak reaction that is so prevalent in most SV quests. "We know better, so do what we say," and all.
General:
Preparations
- Internet-connected computer systems should be set up in the cabin prior to their arrival.
- Multiple video-chat systems should be set up, connecting Serena's cabin with each major residence's public areas, for regular, open communication.
- A video-chat system should be set up, connecting Serena's cabin with Keiko's lab, for specialized research communication.
- The cabin should have sufficient refrigeration/storage space to store a reasonable quantity of food.
- Upon arrival, testing will be done to determine the exact range of Serena's aura, to allow positioning the delivery station.
- This only requies a few tests of a few minutes each, and does not need to be repeated. (Details of testing omitted; can elaborate later.)
- Once the range is tested, the mailbox and delivery station should be outside the typical range of Serena's aura (from inside the cabin).
- A second range must be determined, where she moves such that her followers can reach the mailbox and delivery station safely. The edge of this range should also be marked.
Points one through four are acceptable and encouraged to maintain constant contact with friends.
Points five through eight imply a quarantine zone, an event horizon, and can be easily compared to a prison. It would be
healthier, for
all parties, if deliveries were in person, and cycled in such a way as to prevent any one girl from entering the aura within a three month period and for no longer than the safe eight hour period, as observation indicates there are no long term side-effects from such limits. Serena herself should be given a personal veto for visitors, and she will likely use it
liberally to prevent the same girl from showing up within the three month safety period even if we didn't establish it ourselves. These limitations give Serena a sense of control which she will appreciate and also serve to make her more than 'the dangerous radioactive thing that must not be seen' to the rest of our current girls.
Precautions
- Magical girls should notify Serena any time they are making a delivery, to be sure she is in the 'safe' zone (ie: inside the cabin).
- Serena must notify us any time she wishes to leave the cabin area. We can provide travel logistics to a destination, possibly including trasportation (eg: rented vehicle).
- Travel through territory not owned by us must be cleared with the owners of that territory.
- In general, movement is like setting up a flight plan for an airline: strict in form, but flexible in setup.
- Violations of the travel notification and setup requirement will be punished based on the severity of the violation, and any mitigating circumstances.
- Requests for face-to-face communication with Serena must be for a very good reason, and must be cleared by Mami, Seto, and Taura.
Point one is an artifact of the previous set and should be discarded as such if the previous points are deemed too restricting.
Point two requires a
number of corollaries. A walk, for instance, or even a ten minute trip to a grocery store presents such a small amount of exposure that requiring advance notice is cruel, and yet another psychologically dangerous precedent to take, both for her and our girls that we expect to befriend her. In cases that she would like to have a day at the beach, or visit a festival, such advance warning is necessary, and I feel it necessary to point out that Serena is more likely to keep obsessive notes of which girls cannot risk exposure than we are for such outings.
Point three is obviously necessary to
some degree, but it becomes necessary to point out that even on foot,
walking, a person can cover two kilometers in less than half an hour, a level of exposure that could probably be equated to five or six of her anchored hope spells, and transport would likely be much faster than that.
Point four seems somewhat redundant? Her movements will already be controlled, but it should be specified that she is directly included in the process, again for the psychology of it.
Point five I agree with conditionally. Accidental exposure greater than half an hour in duration within three months' time requires some form of verbal warning, and exposures greater than that
also demand a warning for the girl who was exposed (at some point it falls to the victim to notice the effect and call Serena to make a beeline away from it). It is, again,
highly unlikely given Serena's self-sacrificing nature that she would unintentionally cause more exposure than that, and she is likely to be surprisingly vigilant against such mistakes even without our input.
Point six is wholly unnecessary and is again psychologically dangerous, almost
entirely because it once again divorces Serena herself from the decision, and even worse, divorces our girls from Serena as a person and from their own opinions. If they never want to set foot in her aura, that's fine. If they want to go give Serena a hug, then it falls first to Serena, then to them, to ensure that they don't overexpose themselves and that they take care of themselves when they get back.
Interactions
- In general, communication should be handled via phone, e-mail, or video conference.
- Open communication should be available between the cabin and the public areas of our current residences.
- Communication should be available between the cabin and our research labs.
- Physical deliveries will be handled at a designated pickup point 1 km from the cabin.
I
mostly agree with point one, but it shouldn't feel like
the actual end of the world for Serena to get a visitor. Even if it's just once every three months,
at least one particular girl should visit for
a few hours, just to remind Serena that she is not an isolated leper and the group exists not to contain her but to help her. I feel it would be better to allow our girls limited contact, but to crack down on any addictive tendencies that may creep up on them, such as repeatedly hunting near the area she homes in.
Point two and three are only natural.
Point four is, again, an artifact I would discard automatically.
I would present a different fourth point, with regards to her anchored spells, which even Elder Haman seems totally oblivious to the dangers of. If she begins anchoring hope spells,
there is no question that even if they were 'spell-bound', they would still have the same addictive properties the full package did. It becomes necessary to ensure that girls don't supplement
every grief spiral with such spells, as that is liable to be
even more addictive than normal prolonged contact.
How the hell was I able to read the vast majority of the past pages of this discussion without seeing this brought up?
For cleansing cities (including Tokyo):
Preparations
- Designation of target area must be provided to Serena, from her arrival point.
- A path to cover movement through the area to be cleansed should be provided. This may not be followed exactly, depending on demon behavior, so deviations should be relayed back to logistics.
- Safety areas must be defined that allows magical girls to remain outside of the risk zones, without accumulating enough magical girls in one spot to attract high-class demons.
- Notify all territories that are on Serena's entrance and exit paths, to warn them and get clearance.
Some means of contact with girls in affected areas is preferred, but not a total necessity. I would propose the following revisions:
- A plan of attack should be worked out in advance with Serena, namely a route to be followed to ensure maximum coverage of the city with the least time taken, accounting for demon fights. (Effectively a merging of the first two points,
while including Serena)
- Notify all territories that are on Serena's planned routes and the expected time of arrival,
as well as a brief overview of her abilities, so they may choose to assist or exit the field to planned 'no aura' zones. (Again, a merging of two points)
-
Assistance is to be provided to girls who choose to assist in purgings, namely in the form of additional grief cubes sufficient for a week's survival. (A highly necessary point, as it would be rather cruel to not provide some form of payment to girls who assist in purges supported by Serena's aura. Fortunately, this point pays for itself, literally, as class 3 demons produce a metric ton of cubes, and while it would be nice to have them all, these girls
live there and
lived through the demons in the first place, even if it may be self-inflicted in the second case)
Interactions
- If Serena encounters any magical girls within the cleansing zone, they must be directed to one of the logistics safety areas.
An artifact, and a point I don't agree with on it's own. Her aura is not so damaging as to be the death of a girl in less than the time it takes to watch two particularly good movies.
Aftermath
- Once the area is deemed cleansed, Serena should be directed on a safe path out of the area while logistics handles cleanup.
Mostly falls in line with the idea of producing a coherent plan of movement through the city. Cleanup of class 3 demons in the aftermath of Serena's intervention should be so easy as to be manageable by the virtually endless hordes of meguca that live there. In the case of Hong Kong, however, several sweeps will likely be required and can be planned concurrently.
All in all, it's the
psychology of the points that grinds my gears. If Serena is effectively stripped of all control, and all our own girls
totally denied anything other than video access from miles away, she will resent the treatment given time, and there will be
no development of healthy relationships between our girls and hers as we would have wordlessly branded her the dangerous leprosy monster with the rules in place for dealing with her.
Yes, she is dangerous. Yes, her aura is effectively an SSRI for a bunch of girls who, by nature of their ability to contract,
need this medication to be stable, and grief cubes are a hack-job of an attempt to replace what is effectively
actual medicine for their conditions.
No, this does not mean we should metaphorically and
almost literally imprison her, using her own self-sacrificing desire not to hurt people as a
leash. Nor does it mean that we should deny this medicine entirely.
And I turn it around again and say that yes, we are still metaphorically imprisoning her, but by giving her the power to
choose things of her own accord and allowing her freedoms that are flexible, she will likely contain
herself. I also say yes, we should
definitely control and limit exposure to her aura for our own girls, even if we allow them the right to enter it themselves.
The completely barbaric, heavy-handed baseline that caters more to Haman's sense of how things should go is not the way to go about it. Nor is his accusations of everyone else, claiming that we are being
wildly cavalier and willingly experimenting on our girls, forcing them to experience the aura to determine LD50's or general addictive strength across a statistical model. Like a rather large majority of things, a moderate, but firm hand is best (In my opinion, of course), which accounts for individual deviation as it appears.
