Meguca Micro Empire Quest (PMMM)

What should I do regarding a change in system?

  • Notgreat's proposed simplification of hunting, leave rest intact.

    Votes: 5 55.6%
  • Chapter system vastly simplifying everything.

    Votes: 4 44.4%

  • Total voters
    9
  • Poll closed .
Hmm, another research project/experiment to try: fining around the city with half-filled grief cubes in our pockets might increase demon spawn rate, which might not be useful as we've never yet had problems finding enough demons, even on an overhunt, but it might also influence the Lamarckian evolution rate, giving us a lowered adaptation rate, much like RT but without the increased risk.

I guess we could also try carrying those half-filled cubes into a demon's miasma, but that might increase risk. Maybe a separate topic?
 
But that's the point.
Hmm on consideration I see your point somewhat.

What I'd really like to do from a modeling perspective is have both a cost difference and a difference in effectiveness. That seems like it would add too much complexity though. Since from a modeling perspective the more people in a group hunting likely means a larger proportion of time spent traveling and a smaller proportion spent fighting or searching. So if I wanted to hold real close to modeling at the cost of complexity I'd do something like Cost 1 cube per 4 solo, 6 pair, 12 pack hunters and modifier of 1.15, 1.25, 1.3 to the return. What I think I'll do instead though is 1 cube per 6 hunters of any type, and modifier 1.15 solo, 1.25 pair, 1.35 pack on return. Plus 1 upkeep teleporter vet.

@inverted_helix : One other quick question that got missed along the way: Is it possible to cap a territory's harvest at fractional cube amounts? Like cap at 13.5 instead of 13 or 14?
Yes.

@inverted_helix, I know that without combat it takes six months for a green to become a veteran, but how fast does it happen if they see combat or are in the wild?
6 months is the wild rate. In your noncombat positions I have it slated as 12 months.
 
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6 months is the wild rate. In your noncombat positions I have it slated as 12 months.

Wait, what? I could have sworn that it took only six turns for a green to become a vet for us? Didn't it only take those girls who wished to be sisters less than 6 turns to become vets because they had been in the wild for a bit?

Edit: After going back and looking, it turns out I was just misremembering.
 
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could we run a 3 month Basic Training program to turn green to vets with spare meguca power?

That was already an option back in turn 1.

-
[]Training, Raise Veteran: Raise one of the Green Girls to be a veteran
Cost: 3 Meguca, 1 Veteran Meguca; Reward: Raises one Green Meguca to veteran status.

-

We decided it wasn't worth it.
 
What I'd really like to do from a modeling perspective is have both a cost difference and a difference in effectiveness. That seems like it would add too much complexity though. Since from a modeling perspective the more people in a group hunting likely means a larger proportion of time spent traveling and a smaller proportion spent fighting or searching. So if I wanted to hold real close to modeling at the cost of complexity I'd do something like Cost 1 cube per 4 solo, 6 pair, 12 pack hunters and modifier of 1.15, 1.25, 1.3 to the return. What I think I'll do instead though is 1 cube per 6 hunters of any type, and modifier 1.15 solo, 1.25 pair, 1.35 pack on return. Plus 1 upkeep teleporter vet.

True, you can combine it into the effectiveness modifier, or you could combine it into the cost factor (ie, the cost incorporates the differences in efficiency as part of the cost difference), like I did (which was why Pack was not 8 to 10 times more cost efficient then Solo). I don't think it matters much mechanically which way you do it. I thought it was more intuitive (and certainly much easier to calculate) incorporating it into the cost, but whichever way you prefer.

I haven't played around with the numbers you gave there for cost effectiveness yet. It's just that whatever the cost benefit comparison we use has to take into account the opportunity cost of the next best alternative.

Also, you responded to my first post on the matter before I edited it. I added a section about making it scale proportionate to territory size, which is the other balance consideration:

Which is another point, the benefits of teleporter transport increases as the territory grows, which makes sense. You'll need to decide if you want to increase costs as well, that would be most simply done by reducing slowly reducing X, although that's a bit unrealistic.

Alternatively you could require the addition of another teleporter beyond a certain number of cubes you are paying into it. For example, 10 cubes per a teleporter, would mean that 20 vets hunting solo could be supported by 1 teleporter, but the 21st hunter would require a 2nd teleporter. It would mean larger number of girls in pairs or packs could be supported... You can't go lower then 10 cubes because otherwise teleport transport would never be effective at saving meguca months for Solo...

This would mean locking in the effectiveness so that it grows proportionately with the size of our territory.
 
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how about for a combat position
could we run a 3 month Basic Training program to turn green to vets with spare meguca power?

That was already an option back in turn 1.

-
[]Training, Raise Veteran: Raise one of the Green Girls to be a veteran
Cost: 3 Meguca, 1 Veteran Meguca; Reward: Raises one Green Meguca to veteran status.

-

We decided it wasn't worth it.

To be more exact, in the early stages of the game we simply could not afford the manpower taken off of hunting. In the later stages we didn't have enough greens to make it worthwhile, as we are now at the point of needing to use veterans to fill spaces in our businesses that could be filled by greens.

If we suddenly had 20 greens dropped on us it might be worth it to take the option to raise them into vets (although we'd probably be desperate to expand territory and would spend our manpower on that instead).

Another thing that might occur is migration away from Tokyo. With how dangerous Tokyo is apparently, I wouldn't be surprised if groups of girls who can't quite seem to make it in Tokyo decide to push out the relatively "soft" girls in Odawara or Numazu towards us, which would make them desperate enough to try to seize territory. Like the "barbarian" hordes that kept getting pushed west out of the Eurasian Steppes.

This could actually be a benefit to us, as we could try and absorb the population.

Also, a thought I had about Seto Tomoe. She's probably originally from a rural area. Might be a farm girl.

Not only does her area include a lot of rural/nomad area, but her wish magic is teleportation, which is usually a result of a wish to travel. I wouldn't be surprised if her original area was in the nomad area, (which is why Seto knows how to hunt it), and that's how she honed her teleportation skills so well.
 
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To be more exact, in the early stages of the game we simply could not afford the manpower taken off of hunting. In the later stages we didn't have enough greens to make it worthwhile, as we are now at the point of needing to use veterans to fill spaces in our businesses that could be filled by greens.

If we suddenly had 20 greens dropped on us it might be worth it to take the option to raise them into vets (although we'd probably be desperate to expand territory and would spend our manpower on that instead).
Put another way it's basically that we don't need to bother because we can get it for free instead. Any megucamonths we'd ever spend on raising a green to a vet could be better spent on more training, research, or diplomacy.

Anyway, any other votes? I think we've mostly coalesced onto a plan here, unless there is any new business, although we just brainstormed a lot of new research/training options that probably need to be priced out for next month's update. This one's mostly a month of consolidation and transition anyway; we're basically wrapping up Part 1: Subsistence Farming and moving on to Part 2: Crop Rotation. :D
 
As far as I know, this month is done, vote-wise. There have been no suggested changes for a few days, and mine and Haman's are the same, I believe.
 
Omake: Kaoru Training: Resonance Frequency
Omake: Kaoru Training: Resonance Frequency

Kaoru was tired. On her way to another training day with Mami, Kaoru was excited, but also very tired. That's what happens when you stay up all night watching youtube clips of resonance frequency in different materials. On top of the exhausting training regime, Mami had added several textbooks on the physics of sound. While Kaoru had understood the mathematical equations, and had found the chapters on resonance frequency particularly helpful in giving her a hint, how to translate that into actually causing metal to shatter was something that had eluded her.

Five days of very frustrating training had followed. Kaoru was now a natural at summoning musical platforms, shields, barriers, and the clearing move with her foot stomp explosion. Well, at least she thought she was a natural, Mami seemed to think she was merely adequate, demanding ever faster reaction times, with shorter and shorter pauses in between actions. Still, Mami had thought her adequate, which was much better than the frustration on Mami's face at her inability to shatter anything other then glass.

Today was going to be different though. Kaoru could just feel it. She had understood the theory of resonance frequency, but she hadn't been able to visualize it, which she was rapidly learning was essential to doing something with her magic that wasn't instinctual. Then Hainako had suggested she check out some videos on it in action. Kaoru had been fascinated. Unfortunately Hainako had demanded her laptop back, and Kaoru was only able to get access by... borrowing it after Hainako had gone to bed. It was totally for a good cause, and she did watch several videos about resonance frequency in metals... that half of the videos had been more focused on all the cool things you could do to water with resonance frequency wasn't important.

Mami was waiting in the junkyard for Kaoru. She was a bit worried about the bags she saw under Kaoru's eyes, but decided it was also a hopeful sign that Kaoru was taking this more seriously and putting in the effort required. Mami first had Kaoru spend two hours running through her exercises on musical platforms, barriers, shields, and the clearing move. Then Mami had Kaoru move on to the vibration attack.

Kaoru was excited. Instead of her previous attempts to to modulate her voice and watch the effect on the various metals, Kaoru instead approached a junked car and banged on the door and then listened to the vibrations. Striking it a second time Kaoru again listened until she felt she knew the right frequency. Striking it a third blow, Kaoru this time attempted to visualize the vibrations moving through the metal. A fourth blow and Kaoru believed she had it, she could see the vibrations. Hopefully an effect of her magic rather than wishful thinking.

Finally feeling confident, Kaoru stepped back several paces and then turned and released a high pitched note targeted at the side door, amplified by her magic. The metal vibrated. Encouraged Kaoru increased the volume until Mami put her hands over her ears. Suddenly, the metal released a screech in tune with Kaoru's voice as the metal twisted and tore. No longer in tune with the vibration, the metal looked more like a fist had punched through it rather then shattering.

"Well done!" Mami congratulated Kaoru. Kaoru's face beamed with pleasure. Mami inspected the side door, before turning to Kaoru. "This ability isn't as adaptable as I was hoping, and probably won't be useful against demons, but maybe it could be used against other magical girls to escape traps." Kaoru's face fell, if this skill wasn't that useful, then why had she been spending so much effort on it?

"Let's have you try it against my ribbons next," Mami suggested. Kaoru went from depressed to anxious. She wasn't sure she was really ready for a direct face off with Mami. "Or would you prefer to practice some more on cars?" asked Mami.

Kaoru grimaced, if she was going to develop this skill she'd rather have it be in a way that was useful. "Let's try the ribbons."

"Good," Mami answered. She was happy Kaoru seemed to be getting into it. That grimace of determination took Mami back. Kaoru was looking more like Kyouko now, back when Kyouko was the one training under Mami. She quickly formed a ribbon wall between her and Kaoru.

Kaoru first tried the note she had sung at the car door, but it had no effect, so Kaoru didn't bother increasing her volume. She tried some different notes, while carefully watching the ribbon wall. No effect, but somehow Kaoru just knew what the right notes were. Her voice lowered into a registry far below that of a normal girl's. The ribbon wall did not react. Then, impossibly, Kaoru's voice split into nine simultaneous notes. Kaoru could feel the ribbon wall begin to vibrate, and so she increased her volume until it seemed like the earth itself was shaking. However, she could feel the magic dissipate as it struck the ribbon, almost as if a counter magic was canceling her's out.

Mami's perception was a bit different. First it struck her how odd it was for Kaoru to be able to hit such a low note. Must be a side effect of her wish, Mami thought. Then she felt wonder as Kaoru's voice began sounding multiple notes at the same time. A wonder that was interrupted when Kaoru increased her volume. As Mami covered her ears, she could also feel magic flowing from her instinctively to reinforce her ribbon wall.

Blocked at success, Kaoru stopped singing. The sudden quiet was a bit unnerving, and Kaoru struggled to put aside her disappointment. Mami was stepping past her ribbon wall to discuss the outcome with Kaoru, when the two of them heard a male voice: "I think it was this way." Rapidly, Mami dismissed her ribbons, and the two of them grabbed their items and ran, taking a roundabout way out of the junkyard.

After they were several blocks away, they slowed and Mami clicked her teeth. "I should have thought about that. We'll have to find a new place to practice for a few days. Oh well, let's take this moment to review and plan the future lessons." Mami turned and paused after taking in Kaoru's downcast expression. "Let's do it over ice cream, I know a place that has a good parfait."

Mami took Kaoru to a family restaurant she knew, that she had used to use to bribe Kyouko into training. After a brief discussion of Mami's observations, and a plan to look more closely at Kaoru's emotional effects next Kaoru was begining to cheer up. Mainly due to the ice cream. She and Mami ate in silence for a few minutes before Kaoru decided to make some conversation. "So which one is your favorite?"

Mami looked up in confusion, "Which ice cream?"

"No, which Sailor Senshi of course." Kaoru looked at Mami intently, "don't deny you have one, I know you do."

Mami blushed slightly, but decided there really was no harm in discussing it. She had asked Kaoru to treat her as more of a friend and less as a sempai when they weren't training. "Well... I guess Jupiter."

"Really," Kaoru blinked in surprise, "I thought it'd be Venus."

Mami smiled wistfully, "I guess she was, back when I was younger. Her and Moon."

Kaoru swallowed a bite of ice cream. "So why'd you switch to Jupiter? Because of the cooking?"

Mami's face fell as she looked down at her empty ice cream dish. "No." She looked back up, "because Makoto lost her parents. But she kept on living."

"Oh," Kaoru fell silent for a moment, then slowly nodded. "I see, that's why I like Ami so much." She frowned a bit, "I guess that's why I like Mars more than I used to too." Kaoru glanced over at Mami, "You know, since I met my father." Taking the last bite of her ice cream, Kaoru got up. "Thanks for the ice cream Mami, I needed that."

When they got outside, Kaoru said she had something she wanted to try herself and headed off towards the river. Mami decided she was feeling wistful and went for a walk in a park her mother and father had used to take her too. Afterwards she went home and went to bed, feeling sad, but also glad she had been able to talk about her parents. They deserved to be remembered.

That night, the Mitakihara river caught on fire. Okay, so that is an exaggeration, but it's the way most people ended up remembering it. In reality it was more like a fireball, and it was limited to a very small area near a bridge. No one was even hurt. Still, it caused a bit of a panic for a day with people wondering if the water supply had become contaminated again.

Fortunately an anonymous phone call claimed that a pair of boys had poured gasoline on the river and lit it on fire. Though there was still some continuing suspicion until another phone call added that the boys had thrown chunks of potassium in the river as well. This alleviated the concerns of the citizens of Mitakihara, but did result in a few side effects.

The first was a review of all the chemistry classes in the area, and renewed emphasis on safety. Which led to the punishment of several boys doing stupid (and fun) things. The second was due to the phone calls having been made by two young women, whom the media immediately theorized were the girlfriends of the two delinquents. There was even a poorly made for TV movie about it, called River on Fire, that depicted two sisters in love with boys belonging to different gangs with a reconciliation triggered by a tragic accident when the river caught on fire. Third, encouraged by the movie, residents living near the river greatly exaggerated the actual events to better match the dramatization.

Thus it was ever known as the night the Mitakihara river caught on fire. Other less well known effects was that Mami gave Kaoru a very suspicious stare for a full week, and that Kaoru (and Taura) always left the room whenever there was any discussion among the other girls about this mysterious occurrence.
----------------------------------------------------------------

Whew, finally finished. Not my best work, but good enough. Hopefully I will be able to push the other ones out much more quickly.
 
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Hello. Haven't updated in quite a while. Just wanted to say not dead. Been in a depression swing of late and had trouble doing much of anything significant but have written most of the update. Right now it's just waiting on the finishing touches.

I'm also still needing to redo the map from last turn but it's gotten a bit too small. Resizing it another size larger isn't really that appealing since finding a good map of city borders that I can rip off a map and apply over a satellite map is an amazing pain in the ass. Also I've spent a rather silly amount of time debating the support level of various areas when I make them blob like and they cross over multiple city boundaries.

In the interest of my sanity I'm planning to zoom out the map quite a bit, pick up a nice region map instead of prefecture map and worry less about the population of each tiny area. Just loosely divide it into rural versus urban with less thought into it just more based on broad averages. Something along the lines of 70% urban, 15% rural, 15% nomadic. (I'm aware that by UN standards Japan only has 8% of its population as Rural, but by magical girl standards of taking 20k-ish people to support them a lot of towns fall off from urban into rural or even nomadic.) I'll just use the population of the prefecture and judge about what % of the area is in each area you look at to take over and derive an estimate population from that. It will save me a lot of population puzzling that people probably don't care too much about anyways. (I've spent around half an hour an update at least on researching population sizes in these places, and it's struck me how ridiculous that is, especially since populations shift naturally anyways.)

Though this breaks down a bit when you get to hyperdense population zones like Nagoya or Tokyo, but I'll likely be vague on boundaries of groups there anyways.

Currently thinking to use either http://imgur.com/Hp5VJgI or http://imgur.com/HHc1xDR for the map update. The second one has a bit less clutter, but at the level of zoom to get to your current area it gets a bit pixilated. You currently control around 1/3rd of Shizuoka prefecture. Curious if people like one or the other or if they have a better map image I could use for this goal. I'll fiddle around with them a little, but my abilities are limited to about what you've seen before.



Anyways one thing I would request that would be helpful to a quicker update is some good Grief Spiral texts (I do struggle with making those interesting). You had a fair few this turn. 4x 2 cube spirals, and a 4 cube spiral.
 
[Name]'s boyfriend broke up with her, accusing her of infidelity, and he didn't believe her when she said she was a magical girl out hunting monsters. [It took four Cubes to keep her stable.]/[Unfortunately even four cubes was not enough to save her.]

[Name] was randomly depressed this month, [probably from hunting stress]/[for no specific reason the other girls can tell], it took two Cubes to keep her stable.

[Name] was in emotional turmoil from the recent deaths of her friends. It took two Cubes to keep her from spiraling.

[Name] flirted with the law of cycles this month, but kept her reasons her own. It took two Cubes to keep her from being taken.

[Name] failed a test this month, and it acted as focus point for all the stress and pain of being a magical girl. The resulting panic attack drained two Cubes from the coffers of the Serene, but keeping her alive was worth the cost.
 
[name] got into an argument with a mundane friend over where she keeps disappearing to.

[name] watched a depressing movie.

[name's] pet died

[name] witnessed a car accident and upset by her inability to help.

[name] was yelled at by her boss and didn't take it well.

It was the anniversary of [name's] mother's death.

[name] got it into her head that she should have made a different wish.

[name] was distressed after finding a dead cat.

[name's] mundane friend was badly injured.

[name's] boyfriend moved cities.

[name] was once driven out of Kyouko's territory and witnessing her fight brought back uncomfortable flashbacks.

[name's] father lost his job.

[name's] teacher called her into his office to complain about how her grades have dropped.

[name] was too late to a scene to save a civilian from a demon.

[name] watched an upsetting documentary.

[name's] mother was injured at work.
 
Turn 27
Turn 27

You hold a meeting to make the various announcements for the month, starting with the positive ones: raising the girls allowance, transferring many from apartments to a new house towards Kasamino, and purchasing new bicycles. You then move on to the more mixed things, like the need for refresher courses in training to help integrate Seto's group into your own.

You also encourage your girls to consider writing letters in case of their own deaths. It's not something you wish to happen to anyone, but they need to consider the possibility. You do let everyone know that you're giving them a bit of extra grief cubes to have some fun this month though to make up for the somber tone of last month.

With time for the losses to really sink in on her Seto's not in the cleanest of mental states and accepts the slide in grief cube stockpiles without complaint.


Kyouko's Church

Kyouko admits that her family's church has fallen into a developer's hands due to her inability to pay for taxes on it. She's kept anyone from actually doing anything with it though. She's a bit torn about it though. It was her family's home, and she has good memories, but there are also the terrible ones. It's hard to let go of it, but equally hard to stay there. She's not opposed to the idea of repurposing it though.

Kyuubey admits that he maintains a bit of observation on that situation due to there being a high possibility of masquerade damage from Kyouko's efforts there, although to this point it is believed to be haunted by Kyouko's dead family. Development efforts have largely been written off at this point.

It could likely be purchased at a fraction of its true value, but it is still a rather large piece of real estate on the western edge of Kasamino. Purchasing the land will likely cost only around $500,000. Even with the rising cost of real estate in this region. Refurbishing it could have significant costs though. The basic structure of the building was made in the style of old churches and quite durable, but it will need interior repairs, on top of whatever modifications you would make to render it more suitable for housing.

Arranging for it to be in Kyouko's name would be substantially more effort than for your current budding company to buy it however, as Kyouko does not possess the visible income source to pay for it and its maintenance, a substantial shuffling of assets into her name would be required.


Hunting
You spend the first few days of the month doing refresher training courses to help bring all of Seto's girls up to your current standards, while also helping to integrate them more with your own girls.

Hunting this month has a few complications. One day you end up with one of the pairs of vets hunting the Iwata area calling for help after encountering a dramatically stronger than it should be cluster of demons. Only a minor injury for a magical girl resulted from their retreat. The Elites of the Serene were in the area already and swiftly grouped up and pacified the area, compared to the lizard from last month they were nothing. The result was what bothered you though, a handful of already used up grief cubes. You know such a thing can result from improper storage of grief cubes such that they restore the demons they originally came from, but it's not something you made a mistake with yourself more than once, and all of the Serene should know better.

Kyouko managed to make up the lost time with both her incarnations though and keep the harvest on schedule.

The second issue is when you have Seto go hunting in the nomadic regions beyond your territory she runs into a group of magical girls, though she has little information on them as she was attacked immediately and forced to flee with significant injuries, she's rather depressed at how poorly she's done lately. She ran into them to the north of her own primary territory. Further attempts at hunting went better though she ran into them a couple more times. Based off their spread she doesn't think it possible they're harvesting enough to really be breaking even, though she can't be certain without more information. She still manages to get together a single GCU to contribute to the harvest, she's used to gaining more but there's too much competition now and she wasn't interested in fighting over them.

(71.3 GCU base -.5 GCU injuries + 1 GCU from nomadic region)

Taura and your dispatch team bring up that population in your regions of control seems to be increasing further. Your sustainable harvest has increased by 1 each in your northern and southern hunting zones.


Diplomacy
The girls in area 10 are very grateful or the pamphlet and find it quite helpful to them. The information about the Class 3 demon is worrying, but they had heard rumors passed along from further east and so the information isn't as shocking as it might have been.

You'd half expected that the girls from area 1 wouldn't believe you about it, but they accept your information with a simple acknowledgement and thanks that you dealt with it.


Mundane Economy
Your business operations go rather well this month and you manage to grow your courier business a bit with the added girlpower, you pretty much control the entire market in your region of control now. Your restaurant is fully operational as well this month.

You also arrange to get another house in the eastern end of your territory given how much you've expanded that direction and how many operations you're running there these days it will really simplify things. You give notice about leaving a few of your current apartments, and save on the month's rent since it's already paid and you didn't have any contract.


Morale
You have a big group get together and cycle out to the outskirts of town so you can have a day of team sports and bonding. It goes alright, though at your current size you end up with a lot of different sports going on at the same time. Being able to go out towards the edges of town lets you get bigger more interesting things going on at least. You try to rein in the more visible bits of magic but let them have a bit of fun with it.

You manage to get the rent of the house hammered out just in time to squeeze a proper moving in party at the end of the month and welcome Seto's group at the same time. You spend extra on food and drinks and generally try to have a good time of it, for all that the recent days have been gloomy for them you're trying to give them a new start.



Information Gathering
Picking through the literally millions of hits when you search through the internet for magical girl information is worse than a needle in a haystack. Even basic exclusions of Sailor Moon and Nanoha doesn't really help, you still end up with tens of millions of results. Even going through pages at one a minute for hours doesn't get you through even a fraction of the results and nothing really stands out.

You ask Kyuubey about it, but he's evasive and unhelpful.


General
You aren't too surprised at a large number of grief spirals this month given the drop in morale last month. You weren't pretty much expecting Seto's spiral this month and were well prepared for comforting her one leader to another, her failures in the past two months weighing heavily upon her shoulders for someone used to being the provider and protector. (2 cubes)

One of the original, if unremarkable, veterans you built your group around also spiraled this month, Sakamae has been a magical girl 3 years now, and it seems she had become complacent, used to the life and felt she was okay with it, the shock of last month unsettled her foundation. The second healer from Seto's group Fukuda was in emotional turmoil from the recent deaths of her friends. It took two Cubes to keep her from spiraling.

Nagata Tsuya was too late to a scene to save a civilian from a demon, as a teleporter this hit her especially hard and her life was saved by a hair's breath by Aiko and four units of cubes. Shinobu also spiraled this month, possibly since she's close to Nagata, but she kept her true reasons to herself.

Two of your greens made veteran status this month at least though.
________________________________________________________________________________________

Resources

  • 4 (5) Elite Meguca: Mami (+20% persuasive), Kyouko (can act as if two Elites), Taya (Scouting Bonus), Seto (Elite teleporter)
  • 46 Veteran Meguca, 6 Green Meguca, 1 Associate
    • Upkeep: 21.5 Veteran, 6 Green, 1 Associate
      • Support/Training (9.5 Vet, 1 Green)
        • 2.5 vet + 0.5 green demon finding training (+20% grief cubes)
        • 2.5 vet + 0.5 green on pack tactics (-4% pack hunting, -2% pair hunting)
        • 2 vets on dispatch service (+30% grief cubes additive with demon finding, -1% casualties)
        • 1.5 vet on telepathic communication (-2% pair hunting, -1% pack hunting)
        • 1 Veteran, Paperpushing
      • Jobs (12 Vet, 5 Green, 1 Associate)
        • 1 veteran (Hainako) Translation service
        • 2 Green working jobs
        • 7 veteran + 2 green working courier business (Minimum 3 vets)
        • 4 Vets (Akane, Kit), 1 Green, 1 Associate Restaurant
  • Grief Cubes 47.3
  • Money: $35,570
    • Upkeep $23,520
      • $1120 upkeep on cellphones (-2% solo hunting, -1% pair hunting)
      • $500 upkeep on cable (increased due to new housing)
      • $2500 upkeep on apartments
      • $8000 upkeep on house
      • $11400 upkeep on stipend
    • Income $28,000
      • Normal Jobs: +$2000 per turn
      • Translator: +$3000 per turn
      • Courier Business, Mitakihara: +$9500 per turn
      • Courier Business, Kasamino: +$4500 next turn
      • Restaurant +$9000 next turn
  • Morale: [3 of 10] Morale went up a little this month with all the resources you threw at it, but your group still didn't really shake off the malaise with so many spirals. Writing death notes didn't help either.
  • Assets
    • Tiny household shrine: Somewhat reduces losses to morale from deaths. (Bonus Increased by omake)
    • Shields: -3% Casualties
    • Basic General Combat Training: -2% Casualties (May decay with losses or recruitment).
    • Basic Solo Combat Training: -1% Pack Hunting, -2% pair hunting, -3% Solo Hunting
    • Defending Others Training: -2% Pair Hunting, -1% Pack Hunting
    • 57 Bicycles (Mobility Bonus)
    • 16 Bulletproof vest (-2% casualty)
    • 15.8? Sets of Kevlar Clothing (-4% casualty)
    • 3 Sets of Leather (-2% casualty)
    • 9 sets hardened leather (-3% casualty)
    • Housing (56/73)
      • Apartments (20 capacity)
      • House (50 capacity)
      • Mami's Apartment (HQ of sorts) (Can be traded for $1200 per turn)
  • Territory
    • Urban
      • North
        • Demon Status: Average 0.0
        • Sustainable Harvest: 29
      • South
        • Demon Status: Strong 9.9
        • Sustainable Harvest: 28
    • Rural
      • Demon Status: Average +0
      • Sustainable Harvest: 3
    • Seto's territory
      • 8 Urban (0 DS)
      • 4 Rural (0.3 DS)
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Okay I think I got the numbers on everything right now. I think this was your last month of payment for masquerade damage to Kyuubey though I'm not too sure.

Grief Cubes 62.1+71.8 hunting -56 upkeep -1 kyoclone -1 demon forecast -11 kyuubey payment -5.6 fun with magic = 59.3 pre spirals -12 spirals = 47.3

Section divisions were pretty much arbitrary wherever I felt like, but seemed I need some level of organization to make sense of it all.

Frankly, I think we might need to switch to multiple maps (put them all in a spoiler, and then each individual map in a spoiler).

Eventually we will need too anyway to handle Tokyo and other major metropolis.
This would probably be ideal, but it takes me a lot of effort to do the maps, more than you'd think since my photo editing skills are pathetic, lol.

Going to update main page list of wish magics momentarily.

Map update still delayed for renewed thought.
 
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Woot - Update!

Okay... hmm, not to bad, grief cubes turned out worse than hoped but we should finally be able to get ahead again now that we don't have Kyubey's payoff to make.

We'll want to combine the rural territories now. @inverted_helix I assume that will make it Demon Strength 0.2?

Housing (56/73)
  • Apartments (20 capacity)
  • House (50 capacity)
  • Mami's Apartment (HQ of sorts) (Can be traded for $1200 per turn)

I assume the "House" here is actually the two houses combined into one category.

Kyouko's family church makes for a good medium financial goal: $500,000

That's definitely worth it. Perhaps we can add Kyouko as a board member for the company we have. Thus explaining how we learned of it, and also explaining our belief that we can deal with the "haunting spirits."

This group of nomadic magical girls is more interesting. Maybe we can bring them in out of the cold. If Seto thinks she can find them again, perhaps she can set up diplomatic contacts and some information trading. If they really aren't breaking even they might very well be amenable to joining up.

Wonder if they might be refugees from Tokyo?

Need to keep up the morale building. Want to get back up to at least Morale 5.
 
@inverted_helix: why not start drawing on Google Maps? That way you can zoom in and out as needed, and not have to rely on static images.

Hunting this month has a few complications. One day you end up with one of the pairs of vets hunting the southern area calling for help after encountering a dramatically stronger than it should be cluster of demons. Only a minor injury for a magical girl resulted from their retreat. The Elites of the Serene were in the area already and swiftly grouped up and pacified the area, compared to the lizard from last month they were nothing. The result was what bothered you though, a handful of already used up grief cubes. You know such a thing can result from improper storage of grief cubes such that they restore the demons they originally came from, but it's not something you made a mistake with yourself more than once, and all of the Serene should know better.
Ah, another instance of sabotage. The poaching incident came from the south area too, didn't it? I think it may be time to start leaning on people and breaking faces, at least setting up a fast response squad.

The second issue is when you have Seto go hunting in the nomadic regions beyond your territory she runs into a group of magical girls, though she has little information on them as she was attacked immediately and forced to flee with significant injuries, she's rather depressed at how poorly she's done lately. She ran into them to the north of her own primary territory. Further attempts at hunting went better though she ran into them a couple more times. Based off their spread she doesn't think it possible they're harvesting enough to really be breaking even, though she can't be certain without more information. She still manages to get together a single GCU to contribute to the harvest, she's used to gaining more but there's too much competition now and she wasn't interested in fighting over them.
@Elder Haman Seto being "attacked immediately" seems to contraindicate "willing to join up." That group's going to be a bit prickly; we at least need to have more of a cube surplus than we have before we can really entice anybody.
 
Thinking about it, probably the best way to repurpose and use Kyouko's family church would be to turn it into a school.

Probably make it into the start of our "exclusive cram school" plan. Students by invitation only. Get some more income coming in from the parents of magical girls that are still living with family. Provide some cram school stuff to help girls stay on top of their schooling. Provide a place for a more organized magical instruction to go on as well.

Also, provide a location for large meetings (we are getting to where we need that now). Can become the center of what we hope will be a larger Serene Empire. Eventually provide a place for people to meet and make connections in the magical girl society we are trying to build.

@Elder Haman Seto being "attacked immediately" seems to contraindicate "willing to join up." That group's going to be a bit prickly; we at least need to have more of a cube surplus than we have before we can really entice anybody.

Not at all. It signals that they are desperate. Why else are they running around the nomadic areas trying to hunt as a pack?

Only a starving man tries to rob a beggar. So as long as we are willing to take them in I doubt they will be asking questions about grief cube stockpiles.
 
Ah, another instance of sabotage. The poaching incident came from the south area too, didn't it? I think it may be time to start leaning on people and breaking faces, at least setting up a fast response squad.
Hmm I thought I was a bit more precise than that. This latest incident is in your Iwata territory, technically in your southern region. Previous poaching was in your main area, though in the southern half.

We'll want to combine the rural territories now. @inverted_helix I assume that will make it Demon Strength 0.2?
Yes.

@inverted_helix: why not start drawing on Google Maps? That way you can zoom in and out as needed, and not have to rely on static images.
I might try this. Google maps usually has too much density of stuff to make the clean looking map I've been using but I'll fiddle with it.
 
I might try this. Google maps usually has too much density of stuff to make the clean looking map I've been using but I'll fiddle with it.
Try this for a start.

Note that this is crashing my main instance of Firefox, so I've had to open it in a separate instance of Chromium to get it to work right.

Drawing regions and stuff is pretty easy, and cranking down the polygon transparency lets you layer right over the density.
 
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Quoting a bunch of posts to make it easier to review some of the discussion we had during the interim.

@inverted_helix Also, a question I never got answered:

How many couriers needed and what is the expected financial gain from expanding the courier business into Seto's territory?

1 for +$1500
2 for +$3000

Some other numbers?

@inverted_helix 10% bonus to what exactly? Cubes harvested per a meguca? Is this superior to bikes? What bonus level do we get from bikes? How many mopeds will we need to get the bonus (best expressed as a relationship to the number of hunters I think, 1 per a girl?). Is this additive with the other bonuses like the dispatch team or multiplicative?

Is the bonus larger in rural or nomad areas?

Cubes harvested per meguca. This is superior to bikes because average speed of a moped is significantly higher than average bicycle speed (mostly since you care about not looking superhuman), bikes just prevented you from gaining penalties for the large sprawl of your territory.

1 per hunter same as other equipment. This will be a multiplicative bonus with the others since it' a different type.

Bonus will apply equally both in rural and urban areas (partly because it's much simpler to keep track of that way, but in universe can say that the increased proportion of time spent traveling in rural areas is counterbalanced by roads not always being available directly to where you want to go).

Okay, so there was the moped idea. Harvest rate of each girl equipped with a moped increased by 10%.

Although I think we might have come up with a better idea with the teleporter transport. That's very detailed though, so I'm gonna put that in it's own post.

Okay, so what does the internet have to say? Is it fiction all the way down, or are has someone done the manual thing already?

Hmm... looks like it's fiction all the way down. At least so far. Putting up the manual as a background document for a fictional universe does not seem like something that will be useful at all to us.

Apparently searches on "Kyubey" and "QB" turned up nothing, suggesting the Incubators are deliberately censoring things. So we can't just put it up as is either.

This... is going to take some major thought. We need to make it visible for girls searching for it, but not visible for the Incubators...

Hmm.... you know... if we had a successful idol working for us who we could have mention in an interview how much she loves a certain series on magical girls, which is written about a magical girl organization called the Serene Imperium...

Then we might get enough attention to cut through Sailor Moon, and we then could have this be published as background documents for how the world works.

Essentially create a visible masquerade to conceal the real masquerade.

This is certainly going to be a long term project though.

Below I posted a bunch of posts from our brainstorming on how to improve our efficiency:

Interestingly enough Solo Elites produce at 6.6 cubes.

Vet Pairs produce at 3.96 while Vets Solo produce at 5.28 cubes.

So reducing casualty danger by -10% would increase vets production by 1.3 cubes per a vet. That's increasing production efficiency by 1/3rd.

We could switch to vet solo on the underhunt with only an additional -5% casualty danger.

Research: What is the prime limiter in grief harvesting right now?

1) Time to kill demons? If you doubled demon kill speed, would you double grief cube harvests, or just spend more time waiting around for the next fight?

2) Time to find demons? Is a substantial portion of each hunter's evening spent waiting for demon location info? Or is that information always ready when they finish a fight?

3) Time to travel between demon spawn points? Are the demons located so far apart that you're spending most of your time traveling between points rather than fighting?

4) Demon respawn rates? Similar to #2, but not a problem with slow dispatchers; there just aren't any demons there to be found.

5) Demon grief cube drop rates? If there are no problems in any of the above, then is it just a matter of the rate at which demons drop cubes?

We need an answer to the above to decide on which area to research.

1) Combat tech and strength improvements.

2) Advanced detection methodologies.

3) Improved transport and patrol planning.

4) ?? Something to draw demons into existence.

5) ?? Something to draw out the energy that creates grief cubes

Some of them link together. For example, improved detection may allow many more choices to pull from when giving hunters their next fight route, significantly reducing travel time. Likewise, current detection may only pick out the stronger readings, leading to needing greater combat strength, whereas greater detection sensitivity may allow many more of the weaker demons to be found, limiting the need for higher combat capability.

Overall... I think advanced detection capabilities will get us the greatest overall gain: Better border protection (assuming we can tie it to enchantments), better ability to detect weaker demons (thus reducing combat risks as well as combat time), and just plain more options to choose from within a given area (making travel time a non-issue). Caveat: We need someone to crunch the numbers from the dispatch service.

After that would probably be something to improve #5 (long term item).

I think we learned #3 is at least a big location for increased savings.

That sounds more like an action to setup a real official dedicated research team. Right now we've been sort of amateurishly doing it when we got resources. This would mean something like dedicating Keiko + assistant to research, which would then become an upkeep cost. Benefits would be:

Members of research team can be devoted to a specific research task.
Small bonus to research done with Keiko and dedicated assistants assigned to that research task.
Research team can spends their time and resources on independent research: Generate new ideas to explore (a way for the GM to slip some more of his hints out to us in a more explicit manner), dependent on some dice roll.
Research Team can receive lessons in magical theory. ie: Mami gives a lecture to the researchers on how she makes muskets out of ribbons, and then spends a month conjuring muskets in slow mo allowing the researchers to research. Researchers gain bonus to summoning of material magic, and transformation of material magic, etc. Kyouko give lecture on how to make illusions gain physical power, etc.

Idea for a formal research team.

From my rough estimate of next turn's meguca availability, assuming we train Kaoru and have 1 person allocated to some aspect of the manual, we'll have 5 meguca free for research (or diplomacy).

Options are:

1 vet - Long term duration material check
3 vets + 1 green - Personal effects (80% success chance)
2 vets (2 months) - Technology
3 vets (2 months) - Tandem casting
2 vets (3 months) - Secondary properties
3 vets + 1 green (long-term) - Strength/Speed/Durability (each)
Advanced Detection Network has no pricing available.

We have various ways of combining two research projects. The duration test is the simplest and least expensive. Personal effects will only take one month (probably), but takes 4 meguca. Tandem Casting and Technology are each two-month projects, and take 2-3 vets. All of our important long-term projects cost 4 meguca.


We do have the option to continue to delay Kaoru's training, which will free up a couple meguca. Put Taya on hunting, and we could have 8 on research, which would allow something like: Speed, Tandem, Duration research set (or maybe replace Speed with the ADN, and push the long-term research back yet again). Speed and Tandem will both occupy 2+ months (unless we get ridiculously lucky on the speed research), so we'll need to be ready to dedicate those 7 meguca to research for two turns running.

Basically, if we want to make progress on research, we're going to be spending pretty much all of our optional meguca on that for several months. That means almost nothing else going on other than the hunting and working groups, which are all pretty much fixed. That means that, on the player side, we'll be doing almost nothing for several turns, if everything remains bound to meguca-months.

Maybe we can push more for a lot of smaller side-projects that don't eat (much) into actual meguca-month time. Stuff like non-meguca contacts, relations, and general info-gathering.

I think we really need to move on the diplomacy front and at least Open Relations with all our neighbors.

(Area 11, 12, and 13 especially. Itawa is our most exposed location, we need some insight into what is happening around there).

I say we try to have 1 to 2 girls on Diplomacy, and the rest on research. So next turn I would suggest:

2x Open Relations: 11, 12
3x Tandem Casting

The following turn we go:

1x Open Relations 13
3x Tandem Casting
1x Long Term Duration tests

Ideas on how to spend resources on research and diplomacy this turn.

That's probably the problem. We are used to things like electricity and computers. When we envision something it's usually got all these complicated parts to it. We need to think simpler. How do we hunt demons faster and more efficiently? Increased safety margin to get to Solo hunting with RT is certainly the most obvious.

We've actually already grabbed the lowest hanging fruit: Shields. Armor. Next might be to figure out how to create a protective enchantment- like a barrier enchantment. When struck, it releases a barrier for brief protection. Barrier girl enchants some material that we slip inside the Kevlar. If it cost 1 cube a month to make an enchantment that adds -10% casualty chance, then it might be marginally worth it. (As -10% chance would allow Vets to Solo hunt which increases their harvest rate by 1.4 cubes, so we'd be gaining .4 cubes per a hunter... which could probably save us a total of one or two megucas. Or alternatively, harvest more from our territory by increasing the DS we hunt up to).

Actually... that was why I mention specific enchantment research. Most of our businesses are averaging about $1500 a girl, compared to $1000 a girl from odd jobs.

Our most efficient producer of money is Hainako, at $3000.

Imagine if Hainako could produce enchanted glasses (or some other such thing) that translated whatever you looked at with it. Or alternatively, a translator program that is enchanted. Even if she has to keep feeding it (so not an enduring enchantment), or rather, have another girl maintain the enchantment she casts, then we could equip multiple girls with enchantment glasses and they could act as translators.

Say maintaining this enchantment costs 1 cube. Then that means at the cost of 1 cube we could change a $1500 girl into a $3000 girl. We have about a 10 cube margin. Let's say that we can expend 4 cubes to fund upkeep of 4 translators. That increases our income by $6000, and we could then say drop two girls from working (putting us at -4 cubes, +$3000, and +2 meguca months). 1 girl hunting is worth about 4 cubes, so we just gained 1 meguca months and +$3000, or alternatively 3 meguca months.

We can trade excess territory capacity for either more money or more meguca months. That's probably our fastest route to research increasing our manpower available for other work.

Personalized enchantment effects; on the research list, costs 4 meguca. We won't have the meguca to spare for it for a while, though, given the higher priority items and the relatively limited value of using this trick.

What about custom crafting commissions? Find woodworking shops in the area that will sell creative craftsmanship that we can do using temporarily enchanted wood. Real wood items carry a hefty premium, so we don't actually need to sell that many to earn a fairly decent amount of money. Two girls working on an average of 1 commission a day ($200/commission, could be as little as a $500 cost to the customer) would be getting an effective $3000/month each. Could free up the three odd jobs, giving us +1 meguca and +$3000 (and up to 2 more meguca if we gave up the money from courier jobs).

Edit: Forgot we shifted one of the jobs this turn; we'd basically be trading the 2 odd jobs for +$4000, or maybe pull a couple people from couriers to get +2 meguca and +$1000.

With 1.26 million people in our controlled urban territory (and another 140k in the rural territory, who might even be more likely to buy custom woodwork), distributing across several shops should easily allow that level of sales.

The only trick is getting up to a skill level to consider it art.
 
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Collection of posts on teleporter transport:

If mopeds would increase demon harvesting per a girl (because of faster transport times), then a teleporter service should be able to do even better. Kind of like the Evac Team idea but redesigned to maximize delivering girls to the locations they need to be to fight.

Say 1 teleporter, at the cost of 1 cube per X number of girls being transported, increases harvest rate by 20% (multiplied on top of current bonuses) or 30% (if additive to current finding demon bonus).

To be more reasonable it should probably be 1 cube per X number of girls for Solo, 1 cube per 2X girls for Pairs, and 5X for Pack, with X thus being directly proportionate to the number of teleports. Noticeably this suddenly increases the efficiency of Pack Hunting relative to Pair and Solo, depending on the magnitude of X to what extent, which will make the hunting decisions much more interesting.

Might be too much additional complication, but it could be reasonably argued that the benefit of teleport should be greater for rural or nomad areas. Maybe as much as double the effect?

This is reasonable and something I expected to be come up with sooner or later.

Balancing it to be appealing will be a little troublesome. To the spreadsheet! Tentatively thinking somewhere around 1 cube per 2 solo, 3 pair, 6 pack girls for the various hunting types, with a multiplicative 20%. Will do some math to see how that works.

Ugh, barely worth it at that.

I played around with the numbers a little bit too. I didn't pull those multipliers out of thin air. Currently 20% multiplicative adds on .8 cubes effectiveness per a vet using pair tactics. Adds 2 cube effectiveness at vet solo. Adds .7 at pack tactics.

So charging 1 cube per 2 vets solo is gaining a single cube. That means you have to take it 5 times to save a single meguca month. (Because Vet Solo hunting = 5.28 cubes). So paying 5 cubes allows you to reduce your hunting team from 11 Vets Solo hunting to 10 vets solo hunting. But you've added 1 meguca doing support, so you have no gain over all. Increasing to a reduction from 22 to 20 vets you manage to save a single meguca month.

We'll come back to that later, but first let's continue with the comparison across tactics.

1 cube per 3 pair (why do pairs suddenly increase the cost of a teleport by 50%?) would mean gaining 1.4 cube per three pair. That means you have to take it 3 times to save a single meguca month (vet pair = 3.96 cubes), so paying 3 cubes allows you to reduce your hunting team from 11 vet pairs to 10 vet pairs with out reducing net cube gain. But you've added 1 meguca doing support, so you have no gain over all.

1 per 6 pack would mean gaining 3 cubes per 6 girls hunting in a pack. Taking it once saves a single meguca month (1 vet pack = 3 cubes), so paying 1 cube allows you to reduce a hunting pack of 7 to 6. Or 2 cubes allows reducing from 14 to 12.

However, this does not take into account the meguca month savings of the various tactics.

Solo = gain of 3 cubes
Pair = gain of 1.7 cubes (Which means that if Pairs don't benefit double from teleport transport compared to Solo then Pairs fall even further behind Solo)
Pack = gain of .7 cubes. (Which means Pack needs gains of at 4 times to be able to benefit slightly less than Solo, and 5 times to benefit more than Solo)

It would seem strange to me if Solo tactics benefited more from teleport transport than pairs or packs. You'd think Packs would benefit the most, and Pairs would benefit slightly more then Solo.

Suppose instead we take the equation I gave: Solo is 1 cube per X, Pairs 2X, and Pack 5X. (This takes the position that the number of teleports is much more important to the magic cost then the number of girls being transported, with no effective change between a pair and a solo transport, but some drop off when transporting packs - you could also think of the Pack as a 10/2 multiplier)

Assuming we take 2 as the value of X, then the saving for Solo is still as above, but the savings for pairs and pack change drastically.

1 cube per 4 pairs means saving 2.2 per four vets using pair tactics. This is just a bit more than double that for Solo, so that fits. Now taking it twice allows reducing cost by a meguca month, so reduce 9 to 8, or 18 to 16.

1 cube per 10 Pack means saving 6 cubes per a one vet using pack tactics. This is 6 times that for Solo, so I suppose you could drop down to 4X for the pack tactics, and instead save 4.6, which is 4.6 times as much as Solo, which gives Pack just the slightest edge over Solo in benefiting from teleport transport, thought this leaves Pairs benefiting slightly more than Pack tactics.

Now, back to the effective saving of 1 meguca per a month per 22 Vets hunting Solo. Changing to the 2X equation used above would make Pairs slightly better, allowing the effective saving of 1 meguca per a month per 18 Vets hunting in pairs. The 6X multiplier for Pack tactics would allow dropping from 12 to 10 vets doing pack hunting, thus effective savings of 1 meguca month. The 4X multipler for Pack tactics would allow dropping from 17 to 15 vets doing pack hunting, thus saving 1 effective meguca month. (Which is why I prefer the 5X multiplier for pack, it opens justifications for using pack hunting again.)

So X = 2 is not very useful to us when hunting Solo (with Vets, numbers might change for Elites) because our current territory is not sufficiently large to justify it. It's marginal, but probably worth taking if using pair tactics, same for packs if we use the 4x multiplier, but a sizable benefit to pack hunting if we use the 5X multiplier, enough so that while Pairs are still more efficient then packs, it might be worth considering using packs to drive DS higher if we want to prioritze cubes for a turn.

Not sure if that is what you want, but X would probably have to increase to 4 to make it worthwhile for Solo Vets hunting in our current territory size.

Which is another point, the benefits of teleporter transport increases as the territory grows, which makes sense. You'll need to decide if you want to increase costs as well, that would be most simply done by reducing slowly reducing X, although that's a bit unrealistic.

Alternatively you could require the addition of another teleporter beyond a certain number of cubes you are paying into it. For example, 10 cubes per a teleporter, would mean that 20 vets hunting solo could be supported by 1 teleporter, but the 21st hunter would require a 2nd teleporter. It would mean larger number of girls in pairs or packs could be supported... You can't go lower then 10 cubes because otherwise teleport transport would never be effective at saving meguca months for Solo...

This would mean locking in the effectiveness so that it grows proportionately with the size of our territory.

Why wouldn't mass have an impact? If mass was meaningless then you guys would try to just teleport your house to each location.

Also your math really isn't matching with my own math.

Your harvest this month is 71 cubes. Pair hunting for that takes 18 vets. If you divide by 1.2 to account for a new 20% bonus you get to 15 vets. With a cost of 5 cubes for the service and 1 new support. You're trading 5 cubes for 2 meguca months.

Similarly with pack hunting taking 23 hunters to reach 71 cube harvest, divide by 1.2 = 19. Reduce hunters by 4, add 1 support, cost 3 cubes. This gives a trade of 3 cubes for 3 meguca months.

As far as I can tell you're doing some sort of funky math where you calculated how many more cubes each hunter would make net after the cost and then used that to calculate how many would be needed to cover the territory, which means that you're overestimating the number of hunters.

Anyways those were tentative numbers. What I'd really like to do is have both the GCU cost and the hunting rate modifier vary based on hunting type, but I'm worried that would be too much complexity.

But that's the point.

Net is what matters. If we don't increase the net then we could get the similar savings in meguca months at the cost of cubes by simply reducing the number of hunters.

Take you numbers. Consider that without any additional support, we could just drop 1.5 vets from hunting at the cost of slightly less then 6 cubes, and we wouldn't have as great an increase in DS. So we'd be saving net slightly more then .5 vets by using the teleportation transport, but at without the reduction in DS. And we'd have to increase DS to make up the difference in cubes, which makes it very very marginal. Almost not worth it at the pair level.

Worth it at the Pack level, because a vet pack hunting gains 3 cubes, so we'd be netting 2 meguca months. But that means losing the greater efficiency of Pair hunting. Maybe if combined with hunting to higher demon strength levels we might be able to make it usable for packs. Have to go run more in depth number on that.

Hmm on consideration I see your point somewhat.

What I'd really like to do from a modeling perspective is have both a cost difference and a difference in effectiveness. That seems like it would add too much complexity though. Since from a modeling perspective the more people in a group hunting likely means a larger proportion of time spent traveling and a smaller proportion spent fighting or searching. So if I wanted to hold real close to modeling at the cost of complexity I'd do something like Cost 1 cube per 4 solo, 6 pair, 12 pack hunters and modifier of 1.15, 1.25, 1.3 to the return. What I think I'll do instead though is 1 cube per 6 hunters of any type, and modifier 1.15 solo, 1.25 pair, 1.35 pack on return. Plus 1 upkeep teleporter vet.

True, you can combine it into the effectiveness modifier, or you could combine it into the cost factor (ie, the cost incorporates the differences in efficiency as part of the cost difference), like I did (which was why Pack was not 8 to 10 times more cost efficient then Solo). I don't think it matters much mechanically which way you do it. I thought it was more intuitive (and certainly much easier to calculate) incorporating it into the cost, but whichever way you prefer.

I haven't played around with the numbers you gave there for cost effectiveness yet. It's just that whatever the cost benefit comparison we use has to take into account the opportunity cost of the next best alternative.

Also, you responded to my first post on the matter before I edited it. I added a section about making it scale proportionate to territory size, which is the other balance consideration:

Never got a final decision on this from @inverted_helix

Have you decided on what cost/benefit model we are going to use for a teleporter transport plan?
 
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