Aranfan
Team Plasma Grunt
@inverted_helix, I know that without combat it takes six months for a green to become a veteran, but how fast does it happen if they see combat or are in the wild?
Hmm on consideration I see your point somewhat.
Yes.@inverted_helix : One other quick question that got missed along the way: Is it possible to cap a territory's harvest at fractional cube amounts? Like cap at 13.5 instead of 13 or 14?
6 months is the wild rate. In your noncombat positions I have it slated as 12 months.@inverted_helix, I know that without combat it takes six months for a green to become a veteran, but how fast does it happen if they see combat or are in the wild?
6 months is the wild rate. In your noncombat positions I have it slated as 12 months.
could we run a 3 month Basic Training program to turn green to vets with spare meguca power?
What I'd really like to do from a modeling perspective is have both a cost difference and a difference in effectiveness. That seems like it would add too much complexity though. Since from a modeling perspective the more people in a group hunting likely means a larger proportion of time spent traveling and a smaller proportion spent fighting or searching. So if I wanted to hold real close to modeling at the cost of complexity I'd do something like Cost 1 cube per 4 solo, 6 pair, 12 pack hunters and modifier of 1.15, 1.25, 1.3 to the return. What I think I'll do instead though is 1 cube per 6 hunters of any type, and modifier 1.15 solo, 1.25 pair, 1.35 pack on return. Plus 1 upkeep teleporter vet.
Which is another point, the benefits of teleporter transport increases as the territory grows, which makes sense. You'll need to decide if you want to increase costs as well, that would be most simply done by reducing slowly reducing X, although that's a bit unrealistic.
Alternatively you could require the addition of another teleporter beyond a certain number of cubes you are paying into it. For example, 10 cubes per a teleporter, would mean that 20 vets hunting solo could be supported by 1 teleporter, but the 21st hunter would require a 2nd teleporter. It would mean larger number of girls in pairs or packs could be supported... You can't go lower then 10 cubes because otherwise teleport transport would never be effective at saving meguca months for Solo...
This would mean locking in the effectiveness so that it grows proportionately with the size of our territory.
how about for a combat position
could we run a 3 month Basic Training program to turn green to vets with spare meguca power?
That was already an option back in turn 1.
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[]Training, Raise Veteran: Raise one of the Green Girls to be a veteran
Cost: 3 Meguca, 1 Veteran Meguca; Reward: Raises one Green Meguca to veteran status.
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We decided it wasn't worth it.
Another thing that might occur is migration away from Tokyo. With how dangerous Tokyo is apparently, I wouldn't be surprised if groups of girls who can't quite seem to make it in Tokyo decide to push out the relatively "soft" girls in Odawara or Numazu towards us, which would make them desperate enough to try to seize territory. Like the "barbarian" hordes that kept getting pushed west out of the Eurasian Steppes.
Put another way it's basically that we don't need to bother because we can get it for free instead. Any megucamonths we'd ever spend on raising a green to a vet could be better spent on more training, research, or diplomacy.To be more exact, in the early stages of the game we simply could not afford the manpower taken off of hunting. In the later stages we didn't have enough greens to make it worthwhile, as we are now at the point of needing to use veterans to fill spaces in our businesses that could be filled by greens.
If we suddenly had 20 greens dropped on us it might be worth it to take the option to raise them into vets (although we'd probably be desperate to expand territory and would spend our manpower on that instead).
Currently thinking to use either http://imgur.com/Hp5VJgI or http://imgur.com/HHc1xDR for the map update.
This would probably be ideal, but it takes me a lot of effort to do the maps, more than you'd think since my photo editing skills are pathetic, lol.Frankly, I think we might need to switch to multiple maps (put them all in a spoiler, and then each individual map in a spoiler).
Eventually we will need too anyway to handle Tokyo and other major metropolis.
Housing (56/73)
- Apartments (20 capacity)
- House (50 capacity)
- Mami's Apartment (HQ of sorts) (Can be traded for $1200 per turn)
Ah, another instance of sabotage. The poaching incident came from the south area too, didn't it? I think it may be time to start leaning on people and breaking faces, at least setting up a fast response squad.Hunting this month has a few complications. One day you end up with one of the pairs of vets hunting the southern area calling for help after encountering a dramatically stronger than it should be cluster of demons. Only a minor injury for a magical girl resulted from their retreat. The Elites of the Serene were in the area already and swiftly grouped up and pacified the area, compared to the lizard from last month they were nothing. The result was what bothered you though, a handful of already used up grief cubes. You know such a thing can result from improper storage of grief cubes such that they restore the demons they originally came from, but it's not something you made a mistake with yourself more than once, and all of the Serene should know better.
@Elder Haman Seto being "attacked immediately" seems to contraindicate "willing to join up." That group's going to be a bit prickly; we at least need to have more of a cube surplus than we have before we can really entice anybody.The second issue is when you have Seto go hunting in the nomadic regions beyond your territory she runs into a group of magical girls, though she has little information on them as she was attacked immediately and forced to flee with significant injuries, she's rather depressed at how poorly she's done lately. She ran into them to the north of her own primary territory. Further attempts at hunting went better though she ran into them a couple more times. Based off their spread she doesn't think it possible they're harvesting enough to really be breaking even, though she can't be certain without more information. She still manages to get together a single GCU to contribute to the harvest, she's used to gaining more but there's too much competition now and she wasn't interested in fighting over them.
@Elder Haman Seto being "attacked immediately" seems to contraindicate "willing to join up." That group's going to be a bit prickly; we at least need to have more of a cube surplus than we have before we can really entice anybody.
Hmm I thought I was a bit more precise than that. This latest incident is in your Iwata territory, technically in your southern region. Previous poaching was in your main area, though in the southern half.Ah, another instance of sabotage. The poaching incident came from the south area too, didn't it? I think it may be time to start leaning on people and breaking faces, at least setting up a fast response squad.
Yes.We'll want to combine the rural territories now. @inverted_helix I assume that will make it Demon Strength 0.2?
I might try this. Google maps usually has too much density of stuff to make the clean looking map I've been using but I'll fiddle with it.@inverted_helix: why not start drawing on Google Maps? That way you can zoom in and out as needed, and not have to rely on static images.
Try this for a start.I might try this. Google maps usually has too much density of stuff to make the clean looking map I've been using but I'll fiddle with it.
@inverted_helix 10% bonus to what exactly? Cubes harvested per a meguca? Is this superior to bikes? What bonus level do we get from bikes? How many mopeds will we need to get the bonus (best expressed as a relationship to the number of hunters I think, 1 per a girl?). Is this additive with the other bonuses like the dispatch team or multiplicative?
Is the bonus larger in rural or nomad areas?
Cubes harvested per meguca. This is superior to bikes because average speed of a moped is significantly higher than average bicycle speed (mostly since you care about not looking superhuman), bikes just prevented you from gaining penalties for the large sprawl of your territory.
1 per hunter same as other equipment. This will be a multiplicative bonus with the others since it' a different type.
Bonus will apply equally both in rural and urban areas (partly because it's much simpler to keep track of that way, but in universe can say that the increased proportion of time spent traveling in rural areas is counterbalanced by roads not always being available directly to where you want to go).
Okay, so what does the internet have to say? Is it fiction all the way down, or are has someone done the manual thing already?
Interestingly enough Solo Elites produce at 6.6 cubes.
Vet Pairs produce at 3.96 while Vets Solo produce at 5.28 cubes.
So reducing casualty danger by -10% would increase vets production by 1.3 cubes per a vet. That's increasing production efficiency by 1/3rd.
We could switch to vet solo on the underhunt with only an additional -5% casualty danger.
Research: What is the prime limiter in grief harvesting right now?
1) Time to kill demons? If you doubled demon kill speed, would you double grief cube harvests, or just spend more time waiting around for the next fight?
2) Time to find demons? Is a substantial portion of each hunter's evening spent waiting for demon location info? Or is that information always ready when they finish a fight?
3) Time to travel between demon spawn points? Are the demons located so far apart that you're spending most of your time traveling between points rather than fighting?
4) Demon respawn rates? Similar to #2, but not a problem with slow dispatchers; there just aren't any demons there to be found.
5) Demon grief cube drop rates? If there are no problems in any of the above, then is it just a matter of the rate at which demons drop cubes?
We need an answer to the above to decide on which area to research.
1) Combat tech and strength improvements.
2) Advanced detection methodologies.
3) Improved transport and patrol planning.
4) ?? Something to draw demons into existence.
5) ?? Something to draw out the energy that creates grief cubes
Some of them link together. For example, improved detection may allow many more choices to pull from when giving hunters their next fight route, significantly reducing travel time. Likewise, current detection may only pick out the stronger readings, leading to needing greater combat strength, whereas greater detection sensitivity may allow many more of the weaker demons to be found, limiting the need for higher combat capability.
Overall... I think advanced detection capabilities will get us the greatest overall gain: Better border protection (assuming we can tie it to enchantments), better ability to detect weaker demons (thus reducing combat risks as well as combat time), and just plain more options to choose from within a given area (making travel time a non-issue). Caveat: We need someone to crunch the numbers from the dispatch service.
After that would probably be something to improve #5 (long term item).
That sounds more like an action to setup a real official dedicated research team. Right now we've been sort of amateurishly doing it when we got resources. This would mean something like dedicating Keiko + assistant to research, which would then become an upkeep cost. Benefits would be:
Members of research team can be devoted to a specific research task.
Small bonus to research done with Keiko and dedicated assistants assigned to that research task.
Research team can spends their time and resources on independent research: Generate new ideas to explore (a way for the GM to slip some more of his hints out to us in a more explicit manner), dependent on some dice roll.
Research Team can receive lessons in magical theory. ie: Mami gives a lecture to the researchers on how she makes muskets out of ribbons, and then spends a month conjuring muskets in slow mo allowing the researchers to research. Researchers gain bonus to summoning of material magic, and transformation of material magic, etc. Kyouko give lecture on how to make illusions gain physical power, etc.
From my rough estimate of next turn's meguca availability, assuming we train Kaoru and have 1 person allocated to some aspect of the manual, we'll have 5 meguca free for research (or diplomacy).
Options are:
1 vet - Long term duration material check
3 vets + 1 green - Personal effects (80% success chance)
2 vets (2 months) - Technology
3 vets (2 months) - Tandem casting
2 vets (3 months) - Secondary properties
3 vets + 1 green (long-term) - Strength/Speed/Durability (each)
Advanced Detection Network has no pricing available.
We have various ways of combining two research projects. The duration test is the simplest and least expensive. Personal effects will only take one month (probably), but takes 4 meguca. Tandem Casting and Technology are each two-month projects, and take 2-3 vets. All of our important long-term projects cost 4 meguca.
We do have the option to continue to delay Kaoru's training, which will free up a couple meguca. Put Taya on hunting, and we could have 8 on research, which would allow something like: Speed, Tandem, Duration research set (or maybe replace Speed with the ADN, and push the long-term research back yet again). Speed and Tandem will both occupy 2+ months (unless we get ridiculously lucky on the speed research), so we'll need to be ready to dedicate those 7 meguca to research for two turns running.
Basically, if we want to make progress on research, we're going to be spending pretty much all of our optional meguca on that for several months. That means almost nothing else going on other than the hunting and working groups, which are all pretty much fixed. That means that, on the player side, we'll be doing almost nothing for several turns, if everything remains bound to meguca-months.
Maybe we can push more for a lot of smaller side-projects that don't eat (much) into actual meguca-month time. Stuff like non-meguca contacts, relations, and general info-gathering.
I think we really need to move on the diplomacy front and at least Open Relations with all our neighbors.
(Area 11, 12, and 13 especially. Itawa is our most exposed location, we need some insight into what is happening around there).
I say we try to have 1 to 2 girls on Diplomacy, and the rest on research. So next turn I would suggest:
2x Open Relations: 11, 12
3x Tandem Casting
The following turn we go:
1x Open Relations 13
3x Tandem Casting
1x Long Term Duration tests
That's probably the problem. We are used to things like electricity and computers. When we envision something it's usually got all these complicated parts to it. We need to think simpler. How do we hunt demons faster and more efficiently? Increased safety margin to get to Solo hunting with RT is certainly the most obvious.
We've actually already grabbed the lowest hanging fruit: Shields. Armor. Next might be to figure out how to create a protective enchantment- like a barrier enchantment. When struck, it releases a barrier for brief protection. Barrier girl enchants some material that we slip inside the Kevlar. If it cost 1 cube a month to make an enchantment that adds -10% casualty chance, then it might be marginally worth it. (As -10% chance would allow Vets to Solo hunt which increases their harvest rate by 1.4 cubes, so we'd be gaining .4 cubes per a hunter... which could probably save us a total of one or two megucas. Or alternatively, harvest more from our territory by increasing the DS we hunt up to).
Actually... that was why I mention specific enchantment research. Most of our businesses are averaging about $1500 a girl, compared to $1000 a girl from odd jobs.
Our most efficient producer of money is Hainako, at $3000.
Imagine if Hainako could produce enchanted glasses (or some other such thing) that translated whatever you looked at with it. Or alternatively, a translator program that is enchanted. Even if she has to keep feeding it (so not an enduring enchantment), or rather, have another girl maintain the enchantment she casts, then we could equip multiple girls with enchantment glasses and they could act as translators.
Say maintaining this enchantment costs 1 cube. Then that means at the cost of 1 cube we could change a $1500 girl into a $3000 girl. We have about a 10 cube margin. Let's say that we can expend 4 cubes to fund upkeep of 4 translators. That increases our income by $6000, and we could then say drop two girls from working (putting us at -4 cubes, +$3000, and +2 meguca months). 1 girl hunting is worth about 4 cubes, so we just gained 1 meguca months and +$3000, or alternatively 3 meguca months.
We can trade excess territory capacity for either more money or more meguca months. That's probably our fastest route to research increasing our manpower available for other work.
Personalized enchantment effects; on the research list, costs 4 meguca. We won't have the meguca to spare for it for a while, though, given the higher priority items and the relatively limited value of using this trick.
What about custom crafting commissions? Find woodworking shops in the area that will sell creative craftsmanship that we can do using temporarily enchanted wood. Real wood items carry a hefty premium, so we don't actually need to sell that many to earn a fairly decent amount of money. Two girls working on an average of 1 commission a day ($200/commission, could be as little as a $500 cost to the customer) would be getting an effective $3000/month each. Could free up the three odd jobs, giving us +1 meguca and +$3000 (and up to 2 more meguca if we gave up the money from courier jobs).
Edit: Forgot we shifted one of the jobs this turn; we'd basically be trading the 2 odd jobs for +$4000, or maybe pull a couple people from couriers to get +2 meguca and +$1000.
With 1.26 million people in our controlled urban territory (and another 140k in the rural territory, who might even be more likely to buy custom woodwork), distributing across several shops should easily allow that level of sales.
The only trick is getting up to a skill level to consider it art.
If mopeds would increase demon harvesting per a girl (because of faster transport times), then a teleporter service should be able to do even better. Kind of like the Evac Team idea but redesigned to maximize delivering girls to the locations they need to be to fight.
Say 1 teleporter, at the cost of 1 cube per X number of girls being transported, increases harvest rate by 20% (multiplied on top of current bonuses) or 30% (if additive to current finding demon bonus).
To be more reasonable it should probably be 1 cube per X number of girls for Solo, 1 cube per 2X girls for Pairs, and 5X for Pack, with X thus being directly proportionate to the number of teleports. Noticeably this suddenly increases the efficiency of Pack Hunting relative to Pair and Solo, depending on the magnitude of X to what extent, which will make the hunting decisions much more interesting.
Might be too much additional complication, but it could be reasonably argued that the benefit of teleport should be greater for rural or nomad areas. Maybe as much as double the effect?
This is reasonable and something I expected to be come up with sooner or later.
Balancing it to be appealing will be a little troublesome. To the spreadsheet! Tentatively thinking somewhere around 1 cube per 2 solo, 3 pair, 6 pack girls for the various hunting types, with a multiplicative 20%. Will do some math to see how that works.
Ugh, barely worth it at that.
I played around with the numbers a little bit too. I didn't pull those multipliers out of thin air. Currently 20% multiplicative adds on .8 cubes effectiveness per a vet using pair tactics. Adds 2 cube effectiveness at vet solo. Adds .7 at pack tactics.
So charging 1 cube per 2 vets solo is gaining a single cube. That means you have to take it 5 times to save a single meguca month. (Because Vet Solo hunting = 5.28 cubes). So paying 5 cubes allows you to reduce your hunting team from 11 Vets Solo hunting to 10 vets solo hunting. But you've added 1 meguca doing support, so you have no gain over all. Increasing to a reduction from 22 to 20 vets you manage to save a single meguca month.
We'll come back to that later, but first let's continue with the comparison across tactics.
1 cube per 3 pair (why do pairs suddenly increase the cost of a teleport by 50%?) would mean gaining 1.4 cube per three pair. That means you have to take it 3 times to save a single meguca month (vet pair = 3.96 cubes), so paying 3 cubes allows you to reduce your hunting team from 11 vet pairs to 10 vet pairs with out reducing net cube gain. But you've added 1 meguca doing support, so you have no gain over all.
1 per 6 pack would mean gaining 3 cubes per 6 girls hunting in a pack. Taking it once saves a single meguca month (1 vet pack = 3 cubes), so paying 1 cube allows you to reduce a hunting pack of 7 to 6. Or 2 cubes allows reducing from 14 to 12.
However, this does not take into account the meguca month savings of the various tactics.
Solo = gain of 3 cubes
Pair = gain of 1.7 cubes (Which means that if Pairs don't benefit double from teleport transport compared to Solo then Pairs fall even further behind Solo)
Pack = gain of .7 cubes. (Which means Pack needs gains of at 4 times to be able to benefit slightly less than Solo, and 5 times to benefit more than Solo)
It would seem strange to me if Solo tactics benefited more from teleport transport than pairs or packs. You'd think Packs would benefit the most, and Pairs would benefit slightly more then Solo.
Suppose instead we take the equation I gave: Solo is 1 cube per X, Pairs 2X, and Pack 5X. (This takes the position that the number of teleports is much more important to the magic cost then the number of girls being transported, with no effective change between a pair and a solo transport, but some drop off when transporting packs - you could also think of the Pack as a 10/2 multiplier)
Assuming we take 2 as the value of X, then the saving for Solo is still as above, but the savings for pairs and pack change drastically.
1 cube per 4 pairs means saving 2.2 per four vets using pair tactics. This is just a bit more than double that for Solo, so that fits. Now taking it twice allows reducing cost by a meguca month, so reduce 9 to 8, or 18 to 16.
1 cube per 10 Pack means saving 6 cubes per a one vet using pack tactics. This is 6 times that for Solo, so I suppose you could drop down to 4X for the pack tactics, and instead save 4.6, which is 4.6 times as much as Solo, which gives Pack just the slightest edge over Solo in benefiting from teleport transport, thought this leaves Pairs benefiting slightly more than Pack tactics.
Now, back to the effective saving of 1 meguca per a month per 22 Vets hunting Solo. Changing to the 2X equation used above would make Pairs slightly better, allowing the effective saving of 1 meguca per a month per 18 Vets hunting in pairs. The 6X multiplier for Pack tactics would allow dropping from 12 to 10 vets doing pack hunting, thus effective savings of 1 meguca month. The 4X multipler for Pack tactics would allow dropping from 17 to 15 vets doing pack hunting, thus saving 1 effective meguca month. (Which is why I prefer the 5X multiplier for pack, it opens justifications for using pack hunting again.)
So X = 2 is not very useful to us when hunting Solo (with Vets, numbers might change for Elites) because our current territory is not sufficiently large to justify it. It's marginal, but probably worth taking if using pair tactics, same for packs if we use the 4x multiplier, but a sizable benefit to pack hunting if we use the 5X multiplier, enough so that while Pairs are still more efficient then packs, it might be worth considering using packs to drive DS higher if we want to prioritze cubes for a turn.
Not sure if that is what you want, but X would probably have to increase to 4 to make it worthwhile for Solo Vets hunting in our current territory size.
Which is another point, the benefits of teleporter transport increases as the territory grows, which makes sense. You'll need to decide if you want to increase costs as well, that would be most simply done by reducing slowly reducing X, although that's a bit unrealistic.
Alternatively you could require the addition of another teleporter beyond a certain number of cubes you are paying into it. For example, 10 cubes per a teleporter, would mean that 20 vets hunting solo could be supported by 1 teleporter, but the 21st hunter would require a 2nd teleporter. It would mean larger number of girls in pairs or packs could be supported... You can't go lower then 10 cubes because otherwise teleport transport would never be effective at saving meguca months for Solo...
This would mean locking in the effectiveness so that it grows proportionately with the size of our territory.
Why wouldn't mass have an impact? If mass was meaningless then you guys would try to just teleport your house to each location.
Also your math really isn't matching with my own math.
Your harvest this month is 71 cubes. Pair hunting for that takes 18 vets. If you divide by 1.2 to account for a new 20% bonus you get to 15 vets. With a cost of 5 cubes for the service and 1 new support. You're trading 5 cubes for 2 meguca months.
Similarly with pack hunting taking 23 hunters to reach 71 cube harvest, divide by 1.2 = 19. Reduce hunters by 4, add 1 support, cost 3 cubes. This gives a trade of 3 cubes for 3 meguca months.
As far as I can tell you're doing some sort of funky math where you calculated how many more cubes each hunter would make net after the cost and then used that to calculate how many would be needed to cover the territory, which means that you're overestimating the number of hunters.
Anyways those were tentative numbers. What I'd really like to do is have both the GCU cost and the hunting rate modifier vary based on hunting type, but I'm worried that would be too much complexity.
But that's the point.
Net is what matters. If we don't increase the net then we could get the similar savings in meguca months at the cost of cubes by simply reducing the number of hunters.
Take you numbers. Consider that without any additional support, we could just drop 1.5 vets from hunting at the cost of slightly less then 6 cubes, and we wouldn't have as great an increase in DS. So we'd be saving net slightly more then .5 vets by using the teleportation transport, but at without the reduction in DS. And we'd have to increase DS to make up the difference in cubes, which makes it very very marginal. Almost not worth it at the pair level.
Worth it at the Pack level, because a vet pack hunting gains 3 cubes, so we'd be netting 2 meguca months. But that means losing the greater efficiency of Pair hunting. Maybe if combined with hunting to higher demon strength levels we might be able to make it usable for packs. Have to go run more in depth number on that.
Hmm on consideration I see your point somewhat.
What I'd really like to do from a modeling perspective is have both a cost difference and a difference in effectiveness. That seems like it would add too much complexity though. Since from a modeling perspective the more people in a group hunting likely means a larger proportion of time spent traveling and a smaller proportion spent fighting or searching. So if I wanted to hold real close to modeling at the cost of complexity I'd do something like Cost 1 cube per 4 solo, 6 pair, 12 pack hunters and modifier of 1.15, 1.25, 1.3 to the return. What I think I'll do instead though is 1 cube per 6 hunters of any type, and modifier 1.15 solo, 1.25 pair, 1.35 pack on return. Plus 1 upkeep teleporter vet.
True, you can combine it into the effectiveness modifier, or you could combine it into the cost factor (ie, the cost incorporates the differences in efficiency as part of the cost difference), like I did (which was why Pack was not 8 to 10 times more cost efficient then Solo). I don't think it matters much mechanically which way you do it. I thought it was more intuitive (and certainly much easier to calculate) incorporating it into the cost, but whichever way you prefer.
I haven't played around with the numbers you gave there for cost effectiveness yet. It's just that whatever the cost benefit comparison we use has to take into account the opportunity cost of the next best alternative.
Also, you responded to my first post on the matter before I edited it. I added a section about making it scale proportionate to territory size, which is the other balance consideration:
Hmm I thought I was a bit more precise than that. This latest incident is in your Iwata territory, technically in your southern region. Previous poaching was in your main area, though in the southern half.