Olivebirdy
mook.
We have nine Mundanes, with a net expense of two a week? We should be fine even if we go for Kolobok research next week with an improved workshop and make a sellable item the week after.
Magical Girl Home Base Quest
- Thread starter 7734
- Start date
- Original
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
I think, think, we're an extra three down from the recent facilities upgrade. And we've got more girls eating, so the food budget is gonna be more of a problem. And things may get weird in ways that tie up Medicine Boy's weekly action at some point in the next few weeks (say, because he's trying to keep four badly injured magical girls medically stable and his crafting suffers).
So a plan where we're planning on "make a thing and sell it for Mundanes this week or run out of money" is always subject to getting randomly kicked in the shorts by the iron-shod boot of Shit Happening.
Let's just say that I'm worried about our cash reserve, because this is the kind of game where you don't want to try to optimize too finely and say "oh it will surely be okay because we won't run out of resources." Having no margin of error is a great way to get fucked over and knocked right back to square one.
This is nothing about workshops. Its about how we choose to develop, and in most quests, choices are overwhelmingly influenced by the latest update.
So look to the timespans:
-Short term needs - The crisis at hand. Generally this takes the form of one girl or another bringing either a request or complaint.
--Any actions taken to fulfill an immediate request is addressing the short term, immediate as defined as a problem which only just happened. The urgency of any given request is debatable.
--Bombs generally also address short term needs, but they can be stockpiled and don't work on all needs.
-Mid term needs - Our ability to fulfill or prevent the occurrence of short term needs
--Workshop does so by increasing our crafting throughput.
--Amenities does so by increasing our capacity magical girl residents...at least, assuming they aren't naked newbies.
---Equipment production only counts if it goes to a (semi) permanent magical girl asset, or at least, lasts long enough to solve more than one problem
--Staff do so by performing actions for us. Having an in house auto-bomb factory is pretty good. Having a conspiracy spider is also pretty good. Having veteran, well equipped magical girls is pretty good(though they have a tendency to die as I understand the mechanics)
-Long term needs - We expressedly have no plan for how to get there or what 'there' even looks like, except "better"
--As we have no action plan or visible build or tech chain we cannot be said to be advancing our long term needs in any conscious manner.
Categories are non exclusive, but thus far we have mainly accomplished our Mid term needs as an incidental side effect of meeting a short term need. We didn't set out to acquire resources, we set out to make people happier, more comfortable, or at least, less dead.
As an aside.
I scarcely remember who makes what argument ever, if you think I'm bashing you I'm probably bashing your point by accident. However, I wouldn't say anything I didn't mean, so rip holes in the points or provide counterpoints, citations OR even possible competing theories(backing unnecessary, but it shouldn't contradict anything we know) if you feel you must.
Thats how debate works.
So look to the timespans:
-Short term needs - The crisis at hand. Generally this takes the form of one girl or another bringing either a request or complaint.
--Any actions taken to fulfill an immediate request is addressing the short term, immediate as defined as a problem which only just happened. The urgency of any given request is debatable.
--Bombs generally also address short term needs, but they can be stockpiled and don't work on all needs.
-Mid term needs - Our ability to fulfill or prevent the occurrence of short term needs
--Workshop does so by increasing our crafting throughput.
--Amenities does so by increasing our capacity magical girl residents...at least, assuming they aren't naked newbies.
---Equipment production only counts if it goes to a (semi) permanent magical girl asset, or at least, lasts long enough to solve more than one problem
--Staff do so by performing actions for us. Having an in house auto-bomb factory is pretty good. Having a conspiracy spider is also pretty good. Having veteran, well equipped magical girls is pretty good(though they have a tendency to die as I understand the mechanics)
-Long term needs - We expressedly have no plan for how to get there or what 'there' even looks like, except "better"
--As we have no action plan or visible build or tech chain we cannot be said to be advancing our long term needs in any conscious manner.
Categories are non exclusive, but thus far we have mainly accomplished our Mid term needs as an incidental side effect of meeting a short term need. We didn't set out to acquire resources, we set out to make people happier, more comfortable, or at least, less dead.
As an aside.
I scarcely remember who makes what argument ever, if you think I'm bashing you I'm probably bashing your point by accident. However, I wouldn't say anything I didn't mean, so rip holes in the points or provide counterpoints, citations OR even possible competing theories(backing unnecessary, but it shouldn't contradict anything we know) if you feel you must.
Thats how debate works.
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- Location
- ?
I'll also vote for workshop next turn because I believe there should be a relatively even spread of actions and right now things have been heavily slanted in favor of building and crafting actions.
Olivebirdy
mook.
The Spreadsheet says we have nine Mundanes with a net cost of two, up one from the extra food. We're down five from fourteen from the recent building. So the extra costs you mention have already been factored in. Next turn we'll have seven minus however much the upgrade will cost us.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
My main objection here is that the way you're structuring the categories makes it almost impossible for any action to be called "long term." What would a "long term" action even look like in this framework?
It'd have to be something that doesn't solve an immediate problem, when we are besieged by so many immediate problems that almost everything we do, apart from research actions, does solve someone's immediate problem.
If we make a piece of equipment, we solve some girl's "got no equipment" problem. If we do a workshop upgrade, we solve our "we can't make enough/good enough equipment" problem. If we improve the facilities we solve some girl's "I'm homeless and hungry" problem.
The closest we've got to a long term goal is research. And if we do research, we usually find a way to make it start to pay off within a few weeks. "Medium term."
...
So saying "we're not following a long term plan" is kind of meaningless when everything we can do is also a mechanism for fulfilling short term needs, and fulfilling a short term need is considered as making the action we just took "not long term" even if it matters in the long term. Saving someone's life tends to be a long term investment on the timescale of this game, for instance. There are at least two people in the building now who'd probably be dead if not for actions we took, and unless they get very unlucky and die quickly, they're going to be impactful for a long time.
The only thing I object to, specifically, is when someone turns to the thread and says "we're screwed because y'all didn't do what I say" or "y'all made objectively wrong choices, despite the fact that I can't prove those choices are leading to outcomes worse than the alternative" or "y'all are short-sighted, foolish, reckless, or otherwise deficient in some relevant way, or y'all would be doing what I said."
Because that's a terrible way to argue and insults a lot of people at once.
Er... just to be clear, by "the upgrade" you mean "whatever we are now voting for" or "what we voted for last time?"
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- Location
- ?
[X] [WORK] No, you want to work on your workshop instead. I'll swap. Since Kolbok has no chance of winning at this point.
Olivebirdy
mook.
What we are now voting for. I'm hoping to convince you to support the Hail Mary Workshop Landslide.
So, as we're currently pointing at Trinket, then Workshop, and generally speaking Workshop upgrades help with created items, could I ask that we do Workshop, then Trinket? It'll give us a better item and we'll have the same balance. C'mon, we only need fifteen more people!
Edit: Yes, Lunar! Welcome to the cause!
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- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
But you said that as of the start of next turn, we'll have seven Mundane, minus the cost of whatever we vote for this turn.
If we vote for a workshop upgrade, that could easily cost another three or four Mundane. Maybe more for all I know.
Combine that with a good chance that our operating expenses will go up, if only due to food demands increasing... And, uh. That puts our Mundane cash reserves very low. So low that we'd be forced to sell an item to stay in the black. If there's some pressing problem like "run around frantically nursing eight badly injured magical girls," our margin of error is low enough that we'd be forced to go into the red. And I'm not saying I wouldn't vote to do that, but I don't like going into the red if it's avoidable.
So no, not voting for workshop upgrades this turn. It makes our margin of error next week too thin.
But unless circumstances give us a hell of a good reason not to (better than "we need to expand accomodations or there'll be magical girls on the street;" we've frankly already done our duty on that front given the limits of our resources)... I'm voting 'workshop' next time as long as nobody on Team Pro-Workshop talks me out of it.
Icipall
Don't worry, we can fanfix that!
- Location
- Cold snow fields of Finland
The up one did not come from feeding our new tenants, it came from Chris joining us.
@7734
You've said previously that the building and its facilities don't have a cost to maintain, only people. Did you mean that only regarding the permanent staff, or also magical girls, aka is there a threshold of "every X amount of magical girls living here increases expenses by 1 mundane"?
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We have about all of one long term goal right now - not dying to the upcoming event.
The information is currently deliberately obfuscated, so we can say with certainty that it is impossible to plan for any period longer than a month at present, we know too little about the world, or heck, what we can do.
There WERE plans earlier about setting up some form of equipment mass production, but those plans have been torpedoed with new information, if we're going into mass production at all we're going beyond single building management and more of walled enclave of crafters
Olivebirdy
mook.
It shouldn't, Chris started feeding everyone this turn and she feeds 24. Food expenses are already as high as they'll go for now.
So, if the Workshop costs as much as five Mundanes, then we'll have none left, that's true. We'll still have a lot of other Stuff, though, even if some emergency happens and we can't create and sell an item. ('We' includes Homer, who currently has two T5 Bombs to sell.)
- Location
- Head in the clouds
If we run out Medicine boy goes hawking over the weekend at a flee market which we don't know what the effects mean except probably not good overall.
- Location
- USA
Actually, we do have one (or 2 if it's to be lumped with yours): Rebuilding Joselyn's human body. M-Boy has close to zero ideas how to do it right now but still intends to do it some day, so it can count as a long-term project.
Spectral Waltz
Scatterbrained Writer
- Location
- Walking the Endless Corridors
I... I don't think we should do workshop guys... I really don't.
This is buying a farm instead of swords when the barbarians are literally at the gate...
This is buying a farm instead of swords when the barbarians are literally at the gate...
- Location
- Earth
Definitely not right now.
Maybe, maybe, in a turn or two, depending on how things go next Update.
Olivebirdy
mook.
Doesn't it just mean that we convert a random Stuff into Mundane at a 1-to-1 ratio?
This could be very useful too. Wasn't Jocelyn going to be an incredibly powerful MG?
Sure, but if people want to get a workshop expansion next turn anyway, it's better done this turn instead.
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Spectral Waltz
Scatterbrained Writer
- Location
- Walking the Endless Corridors
No like... We should probably not do any workshop expansions at all until the current crisis is resolved. Is what I mean.
More like buying a smithy while the barbarian army is half a province away so we can actually make enough swords to equip all our militia. This disaster is expected to last several weeks.
Last workshop upgrade gave us a 3x T1 bomb crafting action every time we craft anything else, basically doubling the effectiveness of our crafting. If the next one is anything close it'll be ridiculously, hugely beneficial to get a workshop upgrade now, paying itself off in just a couple crafting actions.
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Olivebirdy
mook.
That means we're not going to research our healing Kolobok during this crisis either, since not enough people want to risk researching it without a better workshop.
Icipall
Don't worry, we can fanfix that!
- Location
- Cold snow fields of Finland
It does.
She could have become a magical girl, no mention of her possible power level. No idea if that is even possible anymore, even when we fix her body.
- Location
- Head in the clouds
Given that it's explicitly called out that we're not at base for two days - which notably is when auctions and the like happen - minimum auction probably goes on random and we don't know other effects. The GM delights in our lack of knowledge sometimes. Personally I'm worried about the possibility of Medicine boy being attacked.
See blind upgrades.
Yep. If you want to fight a war, you need to invest in the military industrial complex.