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Limit Theory [PA Multicross SI]

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Hmm, I guess. Though I was going for shieldbreaker in terms of "straight-up bypass," not "take advantage of design weakness."
I'm running Lantean shields as highly durable against most common forms of attack, Asgard shields as weaker but able to defend against much more exotic attacks, Furling shields as [spoilers], and the Nox... well nothing too interesting in the shield department. Which is kinda what I was doing thematically with how each of the Four Great Races developed technologically.
 
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Chapter 32
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    • Chapter 32​

    The test completed perfectly. Ring transporters can send stuff through the gates, though they do need an obelisk or a pedestal to line up with the gate so the pulse can go through, since they do travel in straight lines. And my resource and command networks pass through the wormhole. Presumably it's because the Stargates use wormholes, unlike my own technology, which uses something that translates as "adjacent-space manifolds."

    With that, all I need is a really big ring transporter that can fit a Commander chassis, and a target. Or wait, I can just use my teleporter technology, since it works on the same principles as my command and resource networks. I should have tested this ages ago. I should have tested this first thing after I got a base set up. Ugh. Stupid stupid stupid.

    I need an uninhabited world. I dial some random address out on the other side of the galaxy. If Penta-6 is north of the galactic core, this is the furthest south in the galaxy. It would take nine months for my ships to make it. I send a few Bison Light Gunships through the gate to do some scouting, and it only takes them a moment to clear the five kilometers around the gate. That'll be enough space for now. I send through c-fabbers to build a teleporter.

    Once that finishes, I walk through the teleporter onto the planet.

    It's actually kind of invigorating to use my own chassis to do some work. Fortunately the Progenitors (okay, who calls themselves that anyway?) had advanced enough technology that joints seizing up and whatnot isn't a problem. Good metals, plus the judicious use of nanotechnology on the surface, is all it really takes.

    Anyway, I take my time setting up the base. I manually place things, more than I did the first time. Once the base stretches about 200 kilometers from the Stargate, I set up a relay. Then I return to the Stargate, and travel through it. The gate will be lifted into orbit, another facility set up around it, and the system will be assimilated, just like all the others. Automation, making being a brutally efficient self-replicating mechanism of war far, far easier.

    "Lindy, you free to talk?" I send.

    "No, give me about another half-hour." She sends back.

    "Okay." Well, time to go start eating another planet. This one is to the galactic east. Nothing there, no problems, move on after I've set up a large enough base. Oh. And I should do that, I finally realize.

    I set up the Stargate facility to produce plenty of small units, and have the Stargate dial a random far-off world. Then the units will scout out the world, and then the standard stellar assimilation protocols can happen.. I need a small nanite energy plant that can go through the gate, so that the scouts can use their fabricators continuously. They can reclaim for their metal source.

    Alright, this drastically speeds up my "cover the galaxy" plan. There are about 7 billion possible gate addresses. There are 100 billion stars in the galaxy. Still, that's enough so that every star system will be covered inside of a few weeks. Right now I my zone of influence stretches about 6,500 light years. Within that range, I have 350 million star systems under my control. 200 million of these have a fully established base. I can probably send missions from every single one of them that has a Stargate, which is about 25 million of them. Assuming 10 minutes of gate time per scouting mission, that's a bit under two days to cover everything.

    I would try making more Stargates but I don't know how they work and I might run into problems given that each Stargate seems to have its own unique nine-digit address, and I don't want to know what happens when two Stargates conflict like that. For all I know if I cloned one they would both explode and any further clones of that gate wouldn't work.

    So, 16 days until the Milky Way Galaxy is entirely covered. Yeah. That's good.

    "Mom, what was it that you wanted to talk to me about? I don't want to let the macro run loose with the lives of the Knowdradens." Lindy interrupted.

    "Ah. Right." I said. "So, I realized that we can use the Stargates to get around. So now it's only going to be 16 days until we have full coverage of the Milky Way."

    "I see. I would have assumed you would have been using them already if you could. You did, after all, possess superior knowledge of this universe." She said.

    "I know!" I shouted. Then I realized I just shouted at my daugther. "I'm sorry, it's just…" I took a mental breath to steady myself. "I'm upset with myself for not thinking of it earlier. I didn't mean to yell at you, okay?"

    "Apology accepted." Lindy said.

    "Great. Yeah, don't assume I know everything. The fictional versions of these universes have minimal technical information and what is available is quite inconsistent This is in addition to the fact that important events seem to be slightly different. And now that we've made changes, my knowledge is even less accurate. In this case, it would be wise for all of us to check our assumptions." I sighed. "So, anyway, onto the plan." I clapped. Lindy raised a mental eyebrow.

    "I will be going to the Pegasus galaxy. Peg DIG, that is." I said, "And visiting the lost city of Atlantis. Then I will check to see if the Wraith are actually a problem, and if so I will eliminate them. Then I will use the yoink'd knowledge of the Ancients to bribe the Asgard into giving up time dilation technology, possibly also by helping them against the Replicators. And then we take on the Ori, and take a look at what Destiny found." I finish.

    "Alright." Lindy said. "So now what?"

    "Well, I need you to keep an eye out here while I'm off in Peg Dig. Do you think you could do that?" I asked.

    "I do not believe so." Lindy responded. "The sheer size of the galaxy, combined with our minimum response times, make for a difficult situation to defend from. This is in addition to the large number of possible threat vectors. Normally this would require billions of Commanders, but with our enhanced travel speed and pre-established infrastructure it might be possible with only a few additional Commanders."

    "Look, I'm not sure adding a dozen new kids to the situation right before I go galavanting off would be a good idea. A second Commander watching the galaxy would be the best I think we could do on short notice." I roll my eyes. "Simply in regards to training and preparedness. And me being a good parent."

    "Will you do the construction, or should I?" Lindy asked.

    "I'll do it." I checked her progress on the Knowdradens. "Besides, you only have a couple more systems to cover. Finish up here and meet me at Penta-6."

    "Right." Lindy nodded.
     
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    • 25 million gates in such an area... The ancients in this verse are even bigger litterbugs and more actively terraforming shit it then canon seems.

    Also I like the individual gate id code on top of the location based system idea.
     
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    Well.... didn't the Tollan build their own gate? And assuming no duplicating symbols (using one symbol multiple times) for an address and allowing for 36 symbols you should end up with something like 42 trillion possible combinations permutations for a six symbol address, 922 quadrillion for a nine symbol address, the vast majority of which won't connect to anything, unless my math is off, which it could be.
     
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    Plus, I believe Itmauve said "i don't understand Stargates yet." The YET is a big part of that statement.

    Though, don't make stargates. Make a new network with the principles of Stargates that you do understand, and spread that around. As a side benefit, it's unlikely the existing Stargate network would connect with your new one.
     
    Dreadis said:
    25 million gates in such an area... The ancients in this verse are even bigger litterbugs and more actively terraforming shit it then canon seems.
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    Galaxies are huge places. There are about 100 billion stars in the Avalon galaxy (I shamelessly borrowed that term from @Sayle 's Atlantis Rising quest,) so I just did some geometry to determine how much of the galaxy I had in my domain, then assumed the Stargates were evenly distributed.
    Stephenopolos said:
    Well.... didn't the Tollan build their own gate? And assuming no duplicating symbols for an address and allowing for 36 symbols you should end up with something like 42 trillion possible combinations for a six symbol address, 922 quadrillion for a nine symbol address, the vast majority of which won't connect to anything, unless my math is off, which it could be.
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    Yes, your math is off.
    36^6 = 2,176,782,336. So that's about 2 billion with repeating symbols.
    44^6 = 7,256,313,856.
    And even though it is possible to make a new gate I'm not sure how the serial numbers/9-digit addresses are assigned, so I don't want to overlap with another gate. Not only do I have to worry about all the gates in Avalon, I also have to worry about Pegasus (Pegasus Dwarf Irregular Galaxy), Orthos (Furling home galaxy, Pegasus Dwarf Elliptical Galaxy), Andromeda (Nox home galaxy, guess), Ida (Current Asgard galaxy, Sextans A), and maybe Othella (Asgard home galaxy, Sextans B) if all the gates haven't been eaten by Replicators.
    And it's possible the Nox gave the Tollan the 9-digit address of their old homeworld's gate (since it was buried, they wouldn't have to worry about it activating.)
    Xon said:
    In Stargate, when in doubt, assume Ancient technology will fail catastrophically.
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    I blame that more on SGC members not reading the manual, but yes.
     
    ltmauve said:
    Yes, your math is off.
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    are we talking permutations or combinations. Because I calc'd for permutations.
    A permutation being an arrangement of all or part of a set of objects, with regard to the order of the arrangement.
    Ex. For symbols, A, B, and C. The complete list of possible permutations would be: AB, AC, BA, BC, CA, and CB.

    It depends on how you want addressing to behave. Is a Stargate address a selection of symbols without regard to order, or does each symbol have to be in a specific order to dial the correct address.

    A specific arrangement of symbols would result in the calc I used.

    Of course, you have already disassociated yourself from the main reference material which makes anything technical considered canonical to the show less important to your story. I'm willing to roll with the numbers given if that's what you want.
     
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    ...ugh, math.

    ...I say that though I should really be taking notes, cause I'm in Stargate too. There's a reason I avoid mentioning specifics, it's to prevent people from bitching about the numbers.
     
    ltmauve said:
    Galaxies are huge places. There are about 100 billion stars in the Avalon galaxy (I shamelessly borrowed that term from @Sayle 's Atlantis Rising quest,) so I just did some geometry to determine how much of the galaxy I had in my domain, then assumed the Stargates were evenly distributed.
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    I'd question the mathematics on the sole basis that if the Ancients were anything, the kind of people who required absolutely bonkers amount of living space they were not. More notably, I'd point out that in the Proclarush Taonas outpost Daniel supposed 'every world the Ancients ever colonized must be indicated here', and more than fifty dots there were not. Even assuming it was only highlighting worlds which were of sufficient importance/population to have an Ancient Outpost equipped with a ZPM, that makes millions of Stargates unlikely.

    Secondly, and perhaps more damningly for that theory, Jack's Stargate data from the Ancient Repository of Knowledge was entered into the database in chronological order, making the incomplete city of Vis Uban both the final city/world the Ancients colonized before the plague hit and last on the list, and I don't think the SGC gate database has more than a few thousand gates in it.


    And now to actually read this fic, I guess? It's funny because I'm working on a quest now involving alien races manufacturing Stargates...
     
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    Sayle said:
    I'd question the mathematics on the sole basis that if the Ancients were anything, the kind of people who required absolutely bonkers amount of living space they were not.
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    *Frantically mashes the AU button*
    Kinda awkward phrasing there.

    The makers of Stargate assumed that 4 ships were enough to conquer a galaxy. That is the scale that the makers of Stargate were working on. Obviously, this is done so that Earth can make a difference on the galactic scale despite having only one planet.

    While I wasn't considering the Proclarush outpost map when I was making the scale, I'm going to have to call B.S on that extremely low number. The estimated age for the Antarctic gate is around 50 million years. You're telling me that the Ancients expanded to additional worlds on average less than once every million years?
     
    Just wave it off as those being the ones the Ancients actually had people either live on, or go to for stuff. There could be millions, the Ancients just didn't use most of them because they didn't need to.

    Hell, they probably automated setting up the stargates.
     
    I knew about those, which is why I was suggesting that the predecessors for those ships were the ones that gated the Pegasus Galaxy, and the predecessors for those ones gated the Milky Way.
     
    Nai said:
    They kinda did. The Seed Ship from Stargate Universe.
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    Pyro Hawk said:
    I knew about those, which is why I was suggesting that the predecessors for those ships were the ones that gated the Pegasus Galaxy, and the predecessors for those ones gated the Milky Way.
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    Well, I am going to do some things with those. Not what you're thinking though. I like having everything all tied together. I also like taking details and extrapolating from those into general rules.
     
    Well Canonically the Nox are native to the Milky way and the ancients are immigrants from Origin galaxy(for lack of a better name).

    Another thing is that gates use a 3d coordinator system, which means many combinations simply don't work because they wouldn't point to anywhere. Your individual gate id system could get around that but it wouldn't really help with exploration without finding the gates through ship based scouting unless you want to dial randomly.
     
    Dreadis said:
    Well Canonically
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    Well according to canon, the Asgard suffer from genetic degradation despite that making absolutely no sense whatsoever for a race with the technological feats of the Asgard (including fabricating the ARG from a schematic.) If the Nox were a fairly peaceful race from one planet in Avalon, why would the Lanteans listen to them, especially if they were as peaceful stupid as the show depicts them?

    Also the coordinate system shown in the TV show makes no sense, since you need the six coordinates anyway, and what if the intersections don't line up? I'm just assuming that it's somewhat based on cylindrical coordinates, with some scheme to make each final volume of space defined about the same size.
     
    Chapter 33
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    • So yay another chapter. And another new character!
    --------------------
    Chapter 33​

    ----------------------------
    Lindy
    ----------------------------

    12 August 2000

    All Knowdraden systems were now under sensor cover. Time to return to Penta-6.

    She stepped through the teleporter, and contacted <Mom>.

    "I have returned." She stated over the link.

    <Mom> responded immediately, sounding exhausted. "Good. Help me wrangle your little sister."

    "Huh?" Lindy asked. "How bad is it?" She immediately brought herself to combat readiness, checking the local command network for hostile encounters. She found none. There was a unit on a separate control band, but it was only an avatar. Not a threat.

    "I fail to see what the problem is." Lindy stated calmly, having now relaxed herself from her combat stance.

    "The problem is that Chrono is being a problem child. And problem children get locked out of the command network, isn't that right, Chrono?" <Mom> stated with deadly undertones in her voice.

    "Mom, you're being a meanie!" A new commander screamed over the channel. "I just wanna play!"

    "I had to lock her out of the network when she tried to use Nasya's Snowstorm to scorch the surface." <Mom> hissed.

    "Chrono, Mom is right. Destruction of civilian structures is uncalled for." Lindy stated to <Chrono>. "Protection of civilian lives is a priority in our engagement orders."

    "I just wanted to see what the explosions looked like." <Chrono> pouted over the channel. "Explosions are cool! And why haven't you tested the weapons yet?"

    "We should perform field tests to see what level of firepower the weapons we have possess." Lindy stated. "It would allow us to build a library of acceptable firepower for different ranges to civilian targets."

    "Huh." <Mom> said. "That's actually a pretty good idea. Chrono, I'm going to let you do that. Find one of the uninhabited systems that's being assimilated, and use it for a testing ground. Make some targets out of human flesh, and figure out a way to simulate brain injuries." She ordered. "Civilians can get damaged in more ways than it might look like."

    "Alright, leave it to me!" <Chrono> said, and as <Mom> relaxed some of her restrictions on the younger Commander, apparently giving her control of every unit within a certain star system.

    "Dial one of the worlds near Earth if you need more information about human physiology." <Mom> advised. "Don't be afraid to break into medical journal databases for more information."

    <Chrono> acknowledged the information, and then darted through a teleporter to the Stargate station.

    "Well, hopefully that'll go well." <Mom> commented, rubbing her avatar's head.

    "I cannot foresee any problems." Lindy stated.

    "Ah, you have already mastered being technically correct, I see." <Mom> smiled at her comment. "Still, at least hopefully she'll be able to master her impulses enough that I can trust her to handle things."

    "I hope so too." Lindy said quietly.

    -----------------------------
    Chrono
    -----------------------------

    Chrono hummed something to herself as she pondered the planet. Right now she had covered it with extractors, but otherwise removed all traces of anything artificial from it, including the Stargate. Now to begin weapons testing. First, she needed a test human body. Of course, she didn't know that much about the human body, but apparently it was the standard in this galaxy, so using it for a baseline made sense.

    First, to do some basic research. She needed to connect to the units <Mom> had placed in the human data networks on Earth. She dialed an address close to Earth, and waited for the portal to connect. With barely any lag, she began searching.

    Physical structure was relatively simple, mostly organic molecules. Of course, those would degrade over time and lose strength, making mass-production difficult. Chrono settled on having a design with carbon nanotube of various strengths around that of the protein scaffolds the the human body used. It was close enough for testing.

    Similarly, the brain could be represented by a simple lattice of nanotubes holding together some weights in a gel, for purposes of injury checking. In fact, the simple model would make checking for brain damage equivalents much easier.

    Though if the human was injured, how much would that affect their life? Chrono decided to look at the literature on long-term injuries.

    -----------------------------------

    Humans, despite being very hard to kill, were surprisingly fragile. They could cripple themselves by running incorrectly, for crying over the channel! Organs that were damaged couldn't be repaired. Burns, cuts, and abrasions left permanent marks on the body. And even simple usage of parts caused them to fail. And even partial failure caused intense feedback that could cripple the person, preventing them from even moving.

    A Commander couldn't be crippled like that. Joint that kept themselves clean using nanotech surfaces, armor and components that could be perfectly repaired, and a feedback system that couldn't cripple the user no matter how much damage was taken.

    Chrono frowned mentally as she tried to imagine what being a human was like. Short, brutal, and full of things that had to be avoided. As a Commander, she could just brute-force her way through anything that might harm her. Anything short of another Commander wasn't a threat to her.

    It must suck, being so far down on the power scale, Chrono thought. And with that, she started fabbing mannequins down on the planet. Time for some testing.

    -----------------------------------

    Humans really were fragile. It was possible for them to get mission-killed from a plasma bolt hitting something a few meters away, from heat injuries. Solid-slug weaponry caused shock waves that could destroy their eardrums. Stronger shock waves would destroy internal organs. Humans were fragile. They didn't even need to get hit to get injured. And their brains were fragile too. Even if the rest of the body was armored, it would still be damaged.

    Fortunately, the smaller bots that <Mom> had developed had significantly less powerful weapons, which meant that they actually needed to hit something in order to do damage. Which was less bad, Chrono supposed.

    Still, onto the heavier weapons test. And yeah, they were capable of ruining someone's life without hitting anywhere nearby.

    And <Mom> wanted her to avoid killing them? Did she even want her to fire a shot? Geez.
     
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    • ...I kinda want to see Chrono become the resident fleshy medical specialist from this. Like, it/they are the single most unlikely medic you could think of, but it'd be hilarious if that turned out to be the case.
     
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