Well, I read the main story so far in about a day and a bit, and it got me thinking about century children. Now while it may have been thought of before, I wonder when Garfield Logans, or Cassandra Cain's birthdays were. Rather a pretty lucky coincidence that a professional hero was there to protect them.
Life Ore Death - DC Feruchemy [Young Justice]
- Thread starter Obloquy
- Start date
- Crossover
- Location
- Australia
Not every coincidence is the result of someone drawing on Fortune.
- Location
- Leeds
Re: Cassandra Cain, should read as :
- Location
- Leeds
I'm no expert, but I think; yes and only if the trait stolen isn't needed to live.
Obloquy
CrossMyHeart And HopeToDie, StickANeedleInMyEye
- Location
- the Physical Realm
As far as Ferris knows, Hemalurgy should be able to steal meta-human abilities, though working out which spikes steal what might take a bit.
It can also steal traits like physical ability, intelligence, and keen senses from regular humans (and from meta-humans, aliens, etc.).
The person a trait is stolen from does not need to survive for the trait to remain.
Quite the opposite, in fact: Hemalurgy almost always kills the "donor" of the stolen trait. Creating a Hemalurgic spike is usually done by hammering a metal spike through the heart of the person/donor you steal the trait from; yeah, that's lethal.
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Well alright, that makes sense, I was just confused by the wording I guess. I wonder how her finding out if it does or doesn't work will come around; possibly/probably at the very worst time.
Is their any examples of donors surviving in canon?
- Location
- Australia
No but as Obloquy pointed out people tend not to survive a metal rod through their heart. It's technically possible though.
Hestia&theCourt
Turns out we're plural too.
- Location
- In transition
- Pronouns
- She/Her
...huh. That brings up the question: could you get infinite Hemalurgy resources off of a Red Lantern? The heart is completely irrelevant to them, so they won't die from that, so in theory, that might work. I suppose the corrosiveness of the red light in their bloodstream might dissolve the spike, though.
Obloquy
CrossMyHeart And HopeToDie, StickANeedleInMyEye
- Location
- the Physical Realm
No, because the spike is charged by ripping off a chunk of the donor's Spirit-Web, aka part of their soul. While technically sort of renewable, it is not an unlimited resource, and surviving a "donation" for even one spike will still leave you very emotionally and psychologically messed up.
It's the spiritual equivalent of "surviving" being a donor of an arm, or a lung, or a liver. Organ donors usually only donate after they're already dead for a reason.
Hestia&theCourt
Turns out we're plural too.
- Location
- In transition
- Pronouns
- She/Her
>implying that Red Lanterns weren't already that way
I wonder how that would interact with someone whose soul can regenerate? I kinda have to wonder if Hemalurgy would damage the framework for the regenerating soul, allowing Renka to kill people who would otherwise shrug it off. Might be a good way to finish off, say, Vandal Savage.
Obloquy
CrossMyHeart And HopeToDie, StickANeedleInMyEye
- Location
- the Physical Realm
>implying that Red Lanterns weren't already that way
I wonder how that would interact with someone whose soul can regenerate? I kinda have to wonder if Hemalurgy would damage the framework for the regenerating soul, allowing Renka to kill people who would otherwise shrug it off. Might be a good way to finish off, say, Vandal Savage.
Hemalurgy could damage the framework, but wouldn't necessarily do so every time, or any single given time; Word of Brandon is that gold Feruchemy or gold Compounding could potentially heal the damage done by making a Spike, and I assume the Surge of Progression could as well.
As for Savage, it would depend of the mechanics of his regeneration. If he's only got one regeneration power, then spiking it out should be fatal.
If he's got several stacked powers, Hemalurgy can only reliably spike out one at a time. It's similar to stealing from a Gold Compounder: if you spike out their Allomancy, their Auger ability, they might still have enough gold-mind stores to heal and regain the ability; if you spike out their Feruchemy, they can still burn any charged gold and the influx of health can, again, potentially heal them.
TheLastOne
Person of impeccable tastes (for destruction)
That sounds like a 'maybe, but it would take an involved "ritual" rather then something you could pull off spontaneously.' You would need to be able to rapidly rip off enough pieces of him to overwhelm his ability to heal damage.
Honestly, that's basically what a shard blade is for - attacking someones Spirit Web with the intention of damaging it enough that they die and stay dead. Trying to do it with Hemalurgy is trying to repurpose a tool that has one use, and apply it to a different one. It maybe could work, but you're making things complex and janky.
A surgebinder can heal that Spirit Web damage, but it's expensive and the window is a lot smaller then it is for pretty much any other kind of damage, so even if Savage could heal from his Spirit Web being harmed, I would assume it would be harder, slower, and more likely to fail in some ways. And as he already is a slow regenerator (usually), that could put him out of commission for a long time even if it doesn't kill him.
Too bad Ferris doesn't HAVE a shard blade, or the right kinds of Investiture to make one.
Hemalurgy & Soul Healing, Word of Sanderson
- Location
- USA
Some WoB's for posterity re: soul-healing, etc.:
----Kurkistan
Could Miles heal back his Allomancy if it was spiked out of him?
Brandon Sanderson
No, he could not. He would no longer be an Allomancer. Also, he'd probably be dead.
Kurkistan
Thanks!
I'd thought maybe he could just do some super-tapping from his existing Health in his goldminds (since he'd still have his Feruchemy)...
Brandon Sanderson
Oh, I see what you're asking. Using Feruchemy to heal the removed portion of soul. That's actually plausible, not so different from healing other kinds of soul-wounds. If he survived, then yes, this actually might work. (That's why I get for reading the questions so quickly.)
source
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*Smug engaged (noting the name of the questioner)*
Note we're not 100% on Regrowth (so Progression) versus other forms of healing, though we've yet to see any indication that it's worse.
e: Curses, found relevant WoBs that weren't mine. Broke the combo.
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Plan of Action - part 3
Obloquy
CrossMyHeart And HopeToDie, StickANeedleInMyEye
- Location
- the Physical Realm
Life Ore Death
* November 25 [Miss Martian PoV][Everything good to go, Miss M?] Robin sent to me. I did one final mental assessment of our telepathic presences.
[Good to go. Once I go silent, Superboy should be the only detectable telepathic presence, and he'll be able to notice if anyone tries to pull anything from his mind. Are the cameras good to go?] I rearranged my possum form's grip on Wolf's fur, hoping our colors still blended.
[Sphere is sending her recordings, no problem. Cost of being closed-circuit and sensor-concealed is that we can't check on the cameras in Wolf's collar or Superboy's button until we crack the cases open again to access them,] Robin informed me, which I'd missed earlier.
[Roger that. That's what you say, right?] I checked. I'd used 'Robert that' the first time, and even though the laughter was meant to be nice....
[Roger that is right,] Robin assured me.
[I'll give you ten seconds to cut contact and then I'll bring us down,] Conner confirmed.
I put in the not-exactly-painful effort of severing our links completely, which felt a lot like going deaf, and nuzzled deeper into Wolf's furry coat. Wolf was wearing what Ferris called his I-am-tame jacket, since a giant predator would be pretty scary to most humans if it were wild, the same way even a tame noth'mrala spooked any sane Martian. We'd improvised a quick collar and Robin had fixed one of Batman's guaranteed-secure secret cameras on like a tag, along with another one on Conner's jacket in case we got separated.
Sphere had informed us, through Ferris, that she had recording capabilities included in her design, and could transmit along wavelengths that ordinary human technology couldn't intercept.
Robin, Zatanna, Ferris, and Kid Flash were remaining in the cave to finish the cooking and play mission control. Zatanna had tied a loop of her hair around Conner's ankle, under his sock, and kept some of his hair clippings in exchange; she said it would help her teleport over, and other things.
We had two people present with Wolf for immediate backup if Conner needed it. We had recording technology in case of ambush or mind-control, and our friends knew where we were. Half the Team could find us in minutes if they needed to.
But I had also spent most of our strategy meeting feeling Ferris radiate a gut-churning anxiety after Robin listed Lex Luthor as our most likely suspect, and Robin was nervous too. I didn't know what if any history they had, but they both dreaded him, and that was a bad sign.
I hoped we were prepared enough.
Sphere landed, and I listened as Conner climbed out and a car drove up. In opossum form I was dug into the furry mane around Wolf's neck, disguised by similar texture and shade. Wolf was keeping his head down to keep me hidden in case the fur didn't hide me despite my matching his coloring, and I had to keep my head tucked in the same way, so all I could do was listen.
An engine drove up, and a door opened.
"Superboy," said a man's voice. "My name is Lex Luthor. I'm the new chairman of the board of directors at project Cadmus."
"…I've heard of you," Conner grunted. I mulled over what the title 'chairman of the board of directors' might mean, though I was pretty certain anyone from Earth would know. "I don't want anything to do with you, or with Cadmus."
'We read his bio...' I silently reviewed what I knew in only my own head, maintaining telepathic silence with some effort. 'Lex Luthor was raised in the Suicide Slums of Metropolis after his father, Lionel, got taken in by a scam and went broke. In his early adolescence their family moved out of Metropolis and spent several years traveling, doing menial labor and farm work to survive.
'Lionel then got enough money to move back to Metropolis, something involving the black market, and Lex got back in school. Lex Corp got started specializing in… whatever RTx was, and Lex Luthor later claimed credit for developing the process personally. When he was 25, his mother was killed in a car accident caused by his father's drunk driving, his father committed suicide by jumping out a window soon after, and Lex Luthor inherited everything. Robin said there are suspicions that it was murder, which…'
I shuddered at the thought of someone killing his own parents. It was awful.
"Cadmus has created a new super clone."
The words almost made me cringe through my skin in shock, and I could only imagine how Conner had to feel.
We'd talked about this, a few times, both before and after Superman started talking with him too. Conner's sense of loneliness had lessened a lot, but at the same time it had also spread out to other places inside him, because he had friends and even family now, but no one who was really like him in that way. Hybrids almost always turned out to be sterile, at the level of technology Earth currently could use to make them, and even if he wasn't, there weren't any female Kyptonians, much less other hybrids.
We weren't at all in a place to be talking about children, but he'd never have the chance for younger siblings, either, nor any nieces or nephews he could spoil, unless he followed one of Renka's ideas and cloned himself to make children. But he wanted nothing to do with Cadmus after they made him as a weapon, and there weren't any other places with the technology to do it. Of course, we'd written it off as something for later in life, and I knew Mars was better than Earth at biology, even if a White Martian wouldn't know much about our most advanced projects….
Now this had happened, and I wasn't sure what Conner would do.
"…Say that again," Conner growled, and in my mind I whispered the wishes for his patience that it wasn't safe to project for now.
"Cadmus. They were supposed to stop all human and Kryptonian cloning projects after your release, but I received an anonymous tip that there's another clone of Superman on the premises, also in a pod. You're the only person I could trust to investigate this, Superboy."
"Anonymous. So you don't know who told you, or you just don't want to say?" Conner challenged.
"I don't know," Lex Luthor claimed, "but the fact that this person knew about your existence in the first place suggests it's someone with doubts on the inside. Usually, I confess, I wouldn't take such an encouraging view of employees spilling company secrets, but since they told me…."
"Yeah, I get it." I knew Conner had rolled his eyes when he said that. He tended to fall back on sarcasm when he didn't want to stop being angry yet, but his mind was trying to move on. I bet he was worrying on the inside about his sibling. I wished I could reach out to him.
"Smart lad, aren't you?" Luthor complimented. "I'm leaving this matter in your hands for the moment, but if nothing has turned up soon, I'll have to contact the government. If one of their shadier organizations gets involved-,"
"I said I get it," Conner snarled. "Scalpels and needles to find out what makes him tick, and how they can make more of us for their armies. Let me make this clear: if I've got a brother in there, I'm taking him out with me, to be free. Got it?"
"Quite," Lex Luthor assured him. "I'm an older brother myself, you know; I understand your feelings."
The sheer, disgusting, vile hypocrisy of that made me almost shiver. We'd read files on the things Lex Luthor had been accused of, and what the League couldn't yet pin on him in court. Many of his victims might not be 'innocent,' either, but they'd had families they needed to feed, and too many children had been orphaned or abducted when a Lex Corp employee was indiscrete with a reporter in some form.
"Yeah? I hadn't heard you were on such good terms with the rest of them," Conner challenged, much to my satisfaction.
"I'm not." Those words were flat and cold, enough to make my possum spine shiver. "Whether they take my money or not, I'm about as popular among my relatives as you are with Kal-El up there, make no mistake," he continued. After moment, I heard Luthor sigh. "That said: hope springs eternal, does it not? I'm not getting any younger, I'm not allowed near my nieces or nephews, and no woman willing to marry a man with my track-record would want anything other than the money I can offer.
"The peace talks in Rhelasia, a renewed interest in the medical fields where my company originated… I've been trying to turn my reputation around and earn some redemption of late, Superboy. That's why I want to send in you, rather than hire a few mercenaries or hand this over to the government. Family is important, and those of us outcast from them have to stick together. You're strong, but you have none of Superman's detached arrogance, living up above the world so often; hold onto that, my boy, and you'll go quite far on your own merits."
"Look, will you quit the mushy, feelings stuff," Conner demanded. "Super-clone in Cadmus, and I'm going to get him out. That's all I needed to know. Keep an eye on who's walking with me when I kick their door open on the way out, and we won't need to talk again."
"I do hope it won't come to that, my boy. Good luck."
Conner didn't say anything in reply, and I heard an engine start up, then drive away after a car door slammed.
Only after all of that did Conner get back into the seat of the Super-Cycle and take us up high enough to be private.
"Sphere, scan us."
Sphere gave the beep that I'd learned was an affirmative – most of the time, anyway – and I reached out immediately.
[Conner, I'm so sorry, that must have been a horrible shock; I know I nearly cringe through my skin when he said that. Are you okay?]
[No.] I felt his hand reach under Wolf's neck and scratch my back, and I thrilled at even that simple touch. [No, but I will be. Just as soon as we get to the bottom of this. Don't shift back, we're almost at Cadmus,] he added sharply when I wanted to hug him in my arms.
[Right,] I agreed mournfully, [Mission security: don't break form, don't use unnecessary telepathy, and don't even think about our back-up.]
[Normally, I'd say secrecy could go to hell,] Conner reassured me grumpily, [and I still think this much is way overdoing it… but I don't trust Cadmus not to try taking me back, if Luthor told them I was alone. I want to know if they would, so we can stop them harder this time.]
[I'll be right beside you the entire time, one way or another,] I promised him.
[Yeah. There's Robin's signal on the roof, with Zatanna.]
[I'll set up a quick link.] I reached out and found their minds easily, looping us all together.
[Robin, what is it?] Conner asked.
[Zee and I came over quick when we heard, and I need to update you; she's using a spell to mask our telepathy right now.]
[30 seconds,] Zatanna counted off to us.
[Right: I'm going to hack Cadmus security and camera systems and download all the data I can find on this new clone, but I'm staying outside to do it with Zee's help. She'll teleport two drives you should plug into computer ports in Cadmus to help me out. Miss M, you have operational authority in Cadmus over the five of you. If this clone gets controlled against us, you can make the call for any or all of you to break cover and help out in whatever way you need to.]
[10,] Zatanna counted.
[Also, I thought we destroyed the samples Cadmus took when they were going to clone and replace us, but if you could keep an eye out just in case, we might prevent the dis from stealing our aster,] Robin finished.
[Got it,] Conner confirmed.
[I'll make the call if it happens,] I promised Robin.
[Cut it now,] Zatanna ordered, and I severed the link entirely. Wolf shifted as he felt the link disappear, too, and then he shifted again and lithely rose to follow Conner in dismounting off of Sphere.
"…Guardian," Conner called out as I began to vleem the hap`raad that would keep the buzzing Genomorph minds from sensing my own. "Good reaction time. You can escort me down the easy way, or I can come down hard in both senses of the word. Which will it be?"
I didn't hear whatever the response was, but Wolf started moving and I didn't hear any fighting, so it seemed to be okay.
I kept up my psychic concealment pattern as we went deeper into Cadmus. It was easy enough, since no one knew to be looking for me, but I found myself feeling a little too comfortable with the nearby thrum of minds. It felt like home, back on Ma'al, but I need to be alert.
"Welcome home, brother," said a voice I couldn't identify.
"Superboy. What brings you back to visit us?" a second, congenial man asked.
"Where's the new super-clone Cadmus created?" Conner demanded. I wanted to wince, because I knew that aggression wasn't going to get us very far, but I couldn't reach out and remind him of that.
"The what?" The congenial man sounded confused, but I wished I could feel him to double check, except secrecy. Annoying.
"Brother, you are the only super-clone at Cadmus," the strange man assured him.
'I wonder why he keeps calling Conner brother? I wish I could see him; maybe he is the super-clone, already free and aware.'
"Cadmus shut down all cloning projects, human and Kryptonian, after your escape," a woman stated.
"After my liberation," Conner corrected with almost a snarl, and I felt a surge of dislike for the woman who had spoken.
I didn't know why one word was bad and the other… 'Well, we did talk about liberty in civics class a lot,' I considered, 'and escape is how we talk about criminals getting out of jail. Wait, did she accuse Conner of being a criminal! Ooooh, I wish I-,'
"Don't lie to me!" Conner challenged, and I paid closer attention.
"Look, Superboy, we've already got enough problems with Genomorphs we should have here disappearing," the second man said, sounding resigned. "I'm happy to show you around and give you the run of the place, but I doubt you'll find anything."
"We'll see about that, Guardian," Conner shot back. I wanted to wince, because Conner had said 'we' and we really needed more practice at this, but since he was with Wolf I hoped he would play it off.
Wolf started moving again, and we went down a floor.
"Hey, you look a lot like Red Arrow," Conner remarked suddenly.
"I expect so, since he's my nephew," Guardian answered, and I filed away that interesting little tidbit.
"…huh. Didn't he end up with Green Arrow because he was orphaned? Where were you when that happened?"
"I was still in my teens and wasn't told anything when his father died – our family had never been terribly close until he and I both became heroes – and then his second guardian, Brave Bow, had arranged Red Arrow's care with Green Arrow before his death. We only met when Red Arrow used a lineage search organization to look up surviving relatives. Then the Shadows tried to kill us both, and here we are."
"Sounds like some story."
"He probably tells it better than I do," Guardian said. I heard a door open, and we went into a room with brighter lights. "Welcome to the new and improved Cadmus. Immoral projects have been shut down, Doctor Spence and her team are doing work that will save thousands of lives if not more in a few years, and all Genomorphs are members of the team. Some of them even have names: Benny, Erin."
"Hey," Conner greeted gruffly. I didn't hear any response to him, and we kept moving, but it had me thinking.
They kept walking through the room, and I wondered why no one was saying anything.
- Location
- Leeds
Is she trying to telepathically eavesdrop?
RyubosJ
Person that hates Mega Evolutions.
- Location
- UK
no? she's normal eavesdropping
- Location
- Leeds
Given the awkwardness between Guardian and the scientists and Superboy and the fact that every other creature down there is telepathic, I find nothing unusual about nobody talking.
- Location
- texas
Not every creature.
The G-gnomes were given telepathy on purpose, Dubbilex was given telepathy by accident when he was given telekinesis, the other genomorphs were given other talents.
- Location
- Leeds
Was speech one of those talents? I can't remember any genomorph speaking except Dubbilex.
- Location
- texas
Since they were made to task, I'd assume that any given genomorph model would be able to talk if being able to talk would be deemed helpful to do one's tasks.
I mean I doubt that the G-Sprites who sit around generating electricity were thought to need talking, and the G-elves and G-trolls might just be humanoid attack dogs.
The G-dwarves might be able to talk, I can see wanting to communicate with a worker.
- Location
- Leeds
In other words, no its not unusual that we haven't seen them talking. So my original confusion about why this is considered odd should stand.
- Location
- Leeds
