- Location
- Earth
...I guess I will throw you a bone there.
The Milestone that unlocks Reincarnation on Become Whole Again is level 20.
Libra's Lament, a Magical Girl Quest [Complete]
- Thread starter Naron
- Start date
- Original
The Milestone that unlocks Reincarnation on Become Whole Again is level 20.
- Location
- behind you
You do have enough EXP to raise Become Whole Again up enough.
(I'll be honest, I also really want you to try it.)
It seem we all really want it.
Who wouldn't want to shock every other character in the quest by suddenly gaining two new and powerful party members who shouldn't exist?
- Location
- Elsewhere
So we need 1870 XP. That means we would have 1350 XP for other purposes....
I'm going for it.
My first thought is to try convincing them to let us try it. I'll try writing something up for that, but I think I'll give someone else a chance first, because I'm bad at convincing people.
I'm also trying to figure out what the exact process would be. Do they ret-gone when they die or...
I think there are 3 possibilities for the procedure:
A: kill them and res them immediately after.
B: wait till the unreality effect fades, then res them
C: as B, but they have to be dead when it fades
I'll post more, but getting this out there so people can respond.
I'd say for now do it as try to fight normally, but leave more than enough EXP in reserve to buy Reincarnation.
We almost certainly want to spend 390 EXP on getting High-Speed Combat (Lvl 2) though.
- Location
- Ekaterinburg, Russia
Become Whole Again 20: 1870
Flight 10 x1: 390 (Moon proposed)
Veil 20: EDIT: 850
These are the essentials to Save The Benigns
Total cost 3110 so far. Also, I believe we'll NEED the HSC2 to both fight them and to catch them on rebirth.
110 EXP left, and unfortunately we cannot guarantee a good result with Baleful Eclipse - Reincarnation probably does require killing them first. In fact, we cannot even purchase it.
Or we can go less veil and more spells.
EDIT: Fixed the cost for Veil, and remaining EXP. We now have 110 EXP left after Veil 20. Enough for Sunlight or Moonlight.
Flight 10 x1: 390 (Moon proposed)
Veil 20: EDIT: 850
These are the essentials to Save The Benigns
Total cost 3110 so far. Also, I believe we'll NEED the HSC2 to both fight them and to catch them on rebirth.
110 EXP left, and unfortunately we cannot guarantee a good result with Baleful Eclipse - Reincarnation probably does require killing them first. In fact, we cannot even purchase it.
Or we can go less veil and more spells.
EDIT: Fixed the cost for Veil, and remaining EXP. We now have 110 EXP left after Veil 20. Enough for Sunlight or Moonlight.
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Hmm...just to confirm, Ana and Ludger are not available for this fight right? Just Twins vs AltTwins?
Ludger is possibly the best diplomatic decision we've made.
Hopefully this works out for the best. I still have no idea what the heck happened.
Tag me once you guys figure out how. Going to be a busy as hell couple of days over here at work..."Operation: Save the Clones" is theoretically possible.
- Location
- Earth
Correct.
Unless Moon decides to use Ludger as a projectile
But that's against the spirit of the fight, so she wouldn't.
- Location
- Ekaterinburg, Russia
Right. Assuming we do go for Become Whole Again 20, it recovers 1556 HP if nothing changes.
Veil of the Lunar Goddess 18-19-20:
294'128---470'604---752'966
Veil 18 leaves us with 480 EXP - enough for Sun Scepter 18 (2802 DMG, 75150 MM, 140k expected damage), or Moon Scepter 18 (28544 DMG, 865 MM, 78k expected damage), or both Sunlight and Moonlight at 12 (81920 DMG, 22744x3=68k Heal).
Problem is, we cannot guarantee killing them with spellcasting AND still having the time margin to resurrect them.
Assuming neither of our counterparts has Overwhelm, or Unstoppable, AND their weapons don't have damage additives of note, we need Moon Scepter 18 to stall Rogue. Even if she has Juggernaut to negate our Strength.
I propose we START with casting Nova to blind them.
[X] EXP Plan Promise of Salvation (Moon Edition)
-[X] Become Whole Again LVL 3-20 (1870/3220, 1350 remaining)
-[X] Primordial Moon - Flight LVL 4-10 (390/1350, 960 remaining)
-[X] Veil of the Lunar Goddess 15-18 (480/960, 480 remaining)
-[X] Moonlight Scepter 15-18 (480/480, 0 remaining)
[X] Plan Opening Salvos
-[X] Goals: Test the strength of your opponents, try and disable Rogue, do not get killed. Additional Goals: Try and get Ana and Ludger reinforce you; kill your opponents on the same turn without using magic, then resurrect them.
-[X] Sun takes flight above to take advantage of her Radiant Shine Unbroken, Moon closes in with the other twins while screening Sun from danger (one goes vertically, the other interposes herself between Sun and Rogue and dives at Rogue).
-[X] Sun casts Scorching Sunlight at Rogue, synchronized with Moon casting Supernova to blind the other twins. Moon intercepts one of Rogue's attacks to test her, attacks her in turn if she is blinded (do not kill outright, but don't hold back otherwise), then disengages.
-[X] If the results of Rogue intercepts are promising, continue doing so. If Guardian intercepted your own attack, make note of it. If Rogue got taken out, check it then have Sun close the distance. Otherwise, keep Sun out of the thick of it so Moon can Dodge if necessary.
-[X] Have Sun cast Soothing Moonlight on Ana and Ludger, too. See if it wakes them up. If it succeeds, ask for a time out to tell them the situation.
@Naron, can we actually try to wake up Ana and Ludger before the fight?
Veil of the Lunar Goddess 18-19-20:
294'128---470'604---752'966
Veil 18 leaves us with 480 EXP - enough for Sun Scepter 18 (2802 DMG, 75150 MM, 140k expected damage), or Moon Scepter 18 (28544 DMG, 865 MM, 78k expected damage), or both Sunlight and Moonlight at 12 (81920 DMG, 22744x3=68k Heal).
Problem is, we cannot guarantee killing them with spellcasting AND still having the time margin to resurrect them.
Assuming neither of our counterparts has Overwhelm, or Unstoppable, AND their weapons don't have damage additives of note, we need Moon Scepter 18 to stall Rogue. Even if she has Juggernaut to negate our Strength.
I propose we START with casting Nova to blind them.
[X] EXP Plan Promise of Salvation (Moon Edition)
-[X] Become Whole Again LVL 3-20 (1870/3220, 1350 remaining)
-[X] Primordial Moon - Flight LVL 4-10 (390/1350, 960 remaining)
-[X] Veil of the Lunar Goddess 15-18 (480/960, 480 remaining)
-[X] Moonlight Scepter 15-18 (480/480, 0 remaining)
[X] Plan Opening Salvos
-[X] Goals: Test the strength of your opponents, try and disable Rogue, do not get killed. Additional Goals: Try and get Ana and Ludger reinforce you; kill your opponents on the same turn without using magic, then resurrect them.
-[X] Sun takes flight above to take advantage of her Radiant Shine Unbroken, Moon closes in with the other twins while screening Sun from danger (one goes vertically, the other interposes herself between Sun and Rogue and dives at Rogue).
-[X] Sun casts Scorching Sunlight at Rogue, synchronized with Moon casting Supernova to blind the other twins. Moon intercepts one of Rogue's attacks to test her, attacks her in turn if she is blinded (do not kill outright, but don't hold back otherwise), then disengages.
-[X] If the results of Rogue intercepts are promising, continue doing so. If Guardian intercepted your own attack, make note of it. If Rogue got taken out, check it then have Sun close the distance. Otherwise, keep Sun out of the thick of it so Moon can Dodge if necessary.
-[X] Have Sun cast Soothing Moonlight on Ana and Ludger, too. See if it wakes them up. If it succeeds, ask for a time out to tell them the situation.
@Naron, can we actually try to wake up Ana and Ludger before the fight?
- Location
- Earth
That is a no.
For one because you are basically half a second before the fight starts.
Additionally, the only reason Pris is actually awake is her Balance-Affinity, which allowed her to shrug off the surrounding effect. Ana and Ludger will stay unconcious until this scene concluded.
We should not buy Become Whole Again levels immediately. We got confirmation that the fight will take multiple updates, so better to leave that EXP in reserve for a later part of the fight.
- Location
- Earth
I get wanting to save up in case you need to spend on something else, but this is once again trying to have your cake and eat it, too. If you are invested in reviving them, spending now is more helpful than spending later. Especially because if you manage to kill one or both in an Update before you buy Reincarnation? They are dead, no take-backsies.
Pris has no idea she can get Reincarnation; she will know the moment she has it, but before that point her goal will be to kill first and foremost. No matter your plans.
- Location
- Ekaterinburg, Russia
I can reduce the levels on BWA down to 15 and invest that into Sun and Moon Scepters (18/20 distribution for APT, or 15/20 and leave a reserve)...
But I would require at least a tacit confirmation that we WILL get those 370/850 EXP back before the point of no return.
Moon Scepter 20 is 73072 DMG, 109608 with Discipline, and 200948 with Strength as well. Enough to synch-1HKO Guardian, I guess.
EDIT: Also, see Naron's post above. I will take Promise of Salvation over a chance of a missed opportunity.
Naron, can you please get Pris to tell the Benign Twins about Reincarnation without our explicit vote-prompting?
But I would require at least a tacit confirmation that we WILL get those 370/850 EXP back before the point of no return.
Moon Scepter 20 is 73072 DMG, 109608 with Discipline, and 200948 with Strength as well. Enough to synch-1HKO Guardian, I guess.
EDIT: Also, see Naron's post above. I will take Promise of Salvation over a chance of a missed opportunity.
Naron, can you please get Pris to tell the Benign Twins about Reincarnation without our explicit vote-prompting?
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- Location
- Earth
I am afraid I can not and even your prompting might not make her.
She would rather not give them hope for fear of disappointing them later... and even if they knew, that would not change anything about the fight itself.
- Location
- Ekaterinburg, Russia
A pity. Okay.
@Naron, do you mind confirming some assumptions of mine in the plan:
1) We do get HSQ 2 with Flight 10
2) Moon will not immediately die for closing in ("not guaranteed" is a perfectly valid answer)
3) Moon will be fast enough to disengage ("not guaranteed" is a perfectly valid answer)
4) Rogue has a Dodge fueled by her 12 aggregate APT (a rather obvious guess to make)
5) Neither Rogue nor Guardian will suffer Sudden Existence Failure if one or both are knocked out (as opposed to killed). Same for the local World Sphere.
6) There will be enough time to kill-resurrect them on the same turn assuming our spells weren't cast on that same turn and we have enough attacks left
7) There is no sun or moon to fuel our Omni-Caster
8) All other things being equal, the sequence of events to end this encounter is: Benign Twins die, everyone gets thrown out, nobody awakes while we're with the Benign Twins, nobody is hurt when everyone gets thrown out.
@Naron, do you mind confirming some assumptions of mine in the plan:
1) We do get HSQ 2 with Flight 10
2) Moon will not immediately die for closing in ("not guaranteed" is a perfectly valid answer)
3) Moon will be fast enough to disengage ("not guaranteed" is a perfectly valid answer)
4) Rogue has a Dodge fueled by her 12 aggregate APT (a rather obvious guess to make)
5) Neither Rogue nor Guardian will suffer Sudden Existence Failure if one or both are knocked out (as opposed to killed). Same for the local World Sphere.
6) There will be enough time to kill-resurrect them on the same turn assuming our spells weren't cast on that same turn and we have enough attacks left
7) There is no sun or moon to fuel our Omni-Caster
8) All other things being equal, the sequence of events to end this encounter is: Benign Twins die, everyone gets thrown out, nobody awakes while we're with the Benign Twins, nobody is hurt when everyone gets thrown out.
Flight 10 is needed for High Speed Combat 2 to not be overcome by speed. It is given to the girl most likely to need it.
Veil 18 is a must for avoiding 2HKO from Rogue.
BWA 20 is a must for a paradigm shift in Pris' tactics.
Sun Scepter 18 might protect floating Sun from Rogue and had Enough Damage to synch-kill Guardian, but it only protects Sun.
Moon Scepter 18 protects both twins from Rogue and has enough oomph to be felt by Guardian especially with Sun helping.
Sun+Moon vs Guardian (unopposed synch-hit, by the numbers):
Sunlight Scepter: 1022+511+18348+16544 = 36425, x2 = 72850
Moonlight Scepter: 28544+14277+204+35680 = 78700
72850+78700 = 151550, x2 = 303100 Synchronized Damage
Benign Guardian: 150k-ish hp remaining.
Veil 18 is a must for avoiding 2HKO from Rogue.
BWA 20 is a must for a paradigm shift in Pris' tactics.
Sun Scepter 18 might protect floating Sun from Rogue and had Enough Damage to synch-kill Guardian, but it only protects Sun.
Moon Scepter 18 protects both twins from Rogue and has enough oomph to be felt by Guardian especially with Sun helping.
Sun+Moon vs Guardian (unopposed synch-hit, by the numbers):
Sunlight Scepter: 1022+511+18348+16544 = 36425, x2 = 72850
Moonlight Scepter: 28544+14277+204+35680 = 78700
72850+78700 = 151550, x2 = 303100 Synchronized Damage
Benign Guardian: 150k-ish hp remaining.
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- Location
- Earth
1) Yes
2) With your upgrades to her veil? Yes
3) SPOILERS
4) SPOILERS
5) Yes
6) Depends on the situation, but not having cast Spells that turn is a must
7) Reality crashed. Both Omni-Casters would work right now.
8) Yes
- Location
- Ekaterinburg, Russia
Well. #1, #2 - good. #3, #4 - as expected.
#7 - this has promise.#5 - WONDERFUL. #8 - good to know. #6 - Ah. Ok. I'll clarify further.
@Naron - assuming we knock out both Benign Twins, can we spare 10-20 seconds to land beside them, then (in a moment of action) deliver a coup de grace to both and resurrect them in synch?
=LINE BREAK=
@Naron, a weird question.
What if Moon and Sun switch their Scepters, and/or one of them takes both into battle?
1) Do the weapon abilities work for both - does Sun get Overwhelm, and can Moon "borrow" Sun's Magic Modifier value - and in what cases?
2) Does Sun get to have her Veil damage with Moon's Scepter (while not benefitting from Godlike Strength)?
3) Does Moon add her Strength bonus, small it may be, to Sun Scepter's damage?
And, incidentally (of no use in Benign Twins encounter, but might be used in Nightmare Guard encounter):
4) Can Sun borrow Ana's Happy Trumpet for multiple Ray triggers of her Veil in the same attack string? We did practice with it in the timeskip.
5) Can Sun apply her 1/turn damage boost to this Ray string of Veil hits?
6) Does Happy Trumpet always disappear when Ana transforms into Caterpillar - or it's possible for her to hand her trumpet over to someone before transforming?
=LINE BREAK=
And a final question - it may have an impact on my plan.
How good is Moon at throwing and Return-ing her Scepter to attack her opponents, and do her Overwhelm and Godlike Strength apply to thrown Scepter? This will mean the difference between "Eva gets into melee with Rogue and Guardian" and "Eva throws her scepter in a curved trajectory knocking one attack of Rogue's off course then hits Rogue with her thrown Scepter - then Returns scepter and throws it again - hovering all the while".
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- Location
- behind you
That is something I can answer for you, because it was stated in the update, that all other MG´s are detransformed. Therefore Ana´s weapon shouldnt be there. They are still good questions for the future maybe.
- Location
- Ekaterinburg, Russia
I know, Dragou. Hence, the "of no use in Benign Twins encounter" right above questions 4-6.
On the other hand, if this works, Rico's severe drawback of "cannot into ranged attacks while hovering for Radiant Shine Unbroken" is sidestepped neatly.
LostDeviljho
Flame Dragon Princess
- Location
- The glorious Pacific Northwest
- Pronouns
- Any
You generally need an ability of some kind that specifically lets you use other MG's weapons properly to do that. I don't know whether Discipline counts sufficiently for that, but I wouldn't rely on it.
- Location
- Ekaterinburg, Russia
Noted.
There is still the "no malus with unfamiliar weapons", the fact weapons are in fact familiar, and most importantly, Two Minds Joined in Harmony combined with Absolute Connection.
They can use each other's spells and borrow APT for Dodging, which is perhaps even more intimate than weapons - those can be handed over easily enough in comparison.
Also, I imagine some weapon abilities are easier to properly use than others - the more straightforward ones certainly.
EDIT: Not even asking for "all weapon abilities work" either. Batter and Indestructible would probably work regardless of wielder (even for a third party), Return would probably never work properly for anyone but Moon, and Modifier Save is also very iffy.
EDIT 2: @Naron - Should Ana's Catterpilar Mode have Discipline as well now that her human form has it?
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I meant for the sake of playing it safe. Try to get a situation that lets us use Reincarnation, but don't spend the EXP on it until we think we actually have a decent chance of pulling it off. Have the ability to spend the EXP elsewhere if we can't figure out a good way to pull it off.
That's what I meant.
[X] EXP Plan Promise of Salvation (Moon Edition)
[X] Plan Opening Salvos
[X] Plan Opening Salvos
- Location
- over there
until we get a plan that looks better, I'll be going with this.
[X] EXP Plan Promise of Salvation (Moon Edition)
[X] Plan Opening Salvos v2
[X] EXP Plan Promise of Salvation (Moon Edition)
[X] Plan Opening Salvos v2
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