Lets Read: World War Z: An Oral History of the Zombie War

Shotguns were useful against boars, but did next to nothing against Zack.
Shotguns aren't that great at actually *killing* a Zeke, given the psuedo-magical ability to not rely on any actual organs in the body, but double O Buck does wonders when you just need it disabled, since even if you only hit it center mass, the pellet spread will have a better chance to hit something "critical" than the singular bullet. Plus, you can always load Slugs to get similar performance.

Is a Shotgun the idea Zombie Slayer? Not at all. But it is an *amazing* way to let relatively untrained civilians defend themselves against small groups of Zeke attacking them.
 
Come to think of it if they don't need organs why does hitting them in the head do anything?

If they're all the way dead and puppeted by The Blob, mystically sensing the insufficiently-dead...

Guess it's a nervous system thing. Would explain why severed limbs don't keep fighting.
 
Let me tell you. It was scary as shit, not knowing whether the dark figure coming in was Zack or human. There were friendly fire accidents, although we soon learnt the value of the hated reflective vests and a charged radio.
I bet at least one guy saved his life by randomly waving his arms in the air like a berserk semaphore machine because "zombies don't do that."
 
Come to think of it if they don't need organs why does hitting them in the head do anything?

If they're all the way dead and puppeted by The Blob, mystically sensing the insufficiently-dead...

Guess it's a nervous system thing. Would explain why severed limbs don't keep fighting.
Basically, yeah. Most of the mechanisms behind Solanum are still the subject of intense academic debate, but basically every respectable researcher agrees that it controls muscles by way of the existing nervous system.

Here's a research paper about the effects of Solanum on the human brain, and here's one about effective methods to euthanize the infected.
 
Shotguns aren't that great at actually *killing* a Zeke, given the psuedo-magical ability to not rely on any actual organs in the body, but double O Buck does wonders when you just need it disabled, since even if you only hit it center mass, the pellet spread will have a better chance to hit something "critical" than the singular bullet. Plus, you can always load Slugs to get similar performance.

Is a Shotgun the idea Zombie Slayer? Not at all. But it is an *amazing* way to let relatively untrained civilians defend themselves against small groups of Zeke attacking them.
OOC:
The shotguns I'm referring to are homemade and carry an....interesting history behind Malaysia gun control laws.
cilisos.my

Why are people in Sabah making homemade guns? What is the law on this?

When police raided a drug dealer's house in Kinabatangan, Sabah recently they found, well, his stash of drugs, obviously, but what we found more interesting than the drugs were his collection of homemade shotguns, called Bakakuk. Three of them were seized by the cops, including 34 bullets. They...

So, farmers justified buying homemade guns like these for the purposes of hunting boar. They range from well made to well..... Those firing pins and pellets as ammo. Every few years, a negligent discharge from such homemade guns makes the news.

www.thestar.com.my

Farmer badly hurt after homemade shotgun goes off during hunt

KOTA KINABALU: A farmer was seriously hurt after a homemade shotgun, locally called a bakakuk, accidentally discharged while he was hunting in a forest near Kampung Panganitan in Sabah's interior Nabawan district.



While I pretty sure that there is no direct link, history does rhyme. And Malays has a history of village made guns.

en.m.wikipedia.org

Istinggar - Wikipedia


And such firearms played a role in the fight against colonialism.

en.m.wikipedia.org

Java War - Wikipedia


Sorry. I probably should had added a coda behind this since that recent accident was what inspired that bit :)
 
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Came up with this just now, thought it was cool.

Here's a certified Zackthought; anyone ever hear about why Fort Detrick is still an 5-mile exclusion zone? I have the story if anyone wants it-it's not one the Junta likes people telling, but they can't do shit to us out here.
 
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Do they have some kind of aerosolized zombie yuck dispenser in there that they can't shut off or something?
 
Do they have some kind of aerosolized zombie yuck dispenser in there that they can't shut off or something?

Not quite-the way the rumors go, and obviously postwar we haven't been able to check, it's something a bit more grounded. Of course, nobody's really left to tell, just FOAF stories from folks from the Frederick enclaves who made it to Canada, Cuba, and the Islands and testimony from surviving Iron Horse marines, a few of whom made it to Ontario before the Junta rolled up the East Coast. Best we can know, the Bioweapon Defense program guys at USAMRIID holed up in the hospital complex on-base and were trying to engineer a vaccine for the Zack basically all through the Panic, with 4th Marine Light Recon as guards. Eventually, after Yonkers, they had all the swarms from Frederick and half from DC on their doorstep, and stayed like that for years using airdrops from the Junta to stay afloat. Then, according to the few Iron Horse and civilians who were either at or in radio range of the complex, they uncorked something really, really nasty to try for a breakout and link up with AG Center as they headed towards DC. Basically, hand to god, aerosolized, fast-acting flesh-eater bacteria, designed to target dead flesh exclusively. One guy who's got a podcast now, "Lobo Haters Local 42"? He says he was there, and that whatever the docs at BDP had designed made ghouls rot way faster than normal- went in through the open wounds and turned muscles and organs into paste-like fighting Gumby instead of a regular ghoul. Of course, the Junta napalmed the whole base with barrel-bombs out the back of a Herc a few hours later; said the site had been overrun and the Zack swarm inside was carrying Ebola from the vaccine culture facilities. All I'll say is that an investigator for the Islands Tri-Journal FOIA'd our intel libraries a while back, and you can see Global Hawk footage, heavily redacted, of LAVs with big Red Cross and USMC markers on their roofs hightailing it out of Frederick with a wall of flame and thousands of late-stage ghouls crawling along on their bellies after them. Junta says the place is still super infected; they've even put up walls, like some pre-war horror flick.
 
OOC, always OOC:

Damn, that's really good. And actually the first time I can remember that I've seen in fiction a case of someone using biological warfare in a genuinely and unambiguously heroic, albeit insanely dangerous, manner.

And yet I can kind of relate to the Junta deciding to just kill 'em all, because holy shit that flesh-eating bacterium sounds if anything more dangerous than the zombies.
 
OOC flesh eating bacteria already exists? It's how rot sets in. Are we refering to accelerating decay or necrotising fascitis ?

If the former,that would be insane since Zack rotted flesh already lasts longer than expected, so there some inherent resistance there. If the later, nothing matters ?

But yeah... Creating a version of the former would be insanely dangerous.
 
My understanding is that zombies don't decay because solanum is also lethal to bacteria and fungi and maggots and other decomposers. A bacterium that was *immune* to solanum would be able to feed on zombies but not necessarily any more dangerous to live humans.

There are of course, 'flesh eating bacteria' that target living humans, while they don't quite dissolve people in minutes they are quite dangerous, and against zombies who know nothing of concepts like hygiene or contagion or penicillin it could be quite effective in the 'apply to horde, wait a week or two, come back to pile of rotten meat' sense.
 
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*Portland, Maine anecdote*
Oh my fuck, do I hate Todd Waino. Fuck that fucking piece of shit. "Bones that were there since the Panic." Sure, dude. Anything to convince yourself the Junta didn't firebomb us because we refused to accept their terms. Freakish piece of trash.

I lost family in Portland. Mom and Dad. Somehow all four of us survived years of Zack, only to get killed by these monsters. May they rot in hell.
 
Oh my fuck, do I hate Todd Waino. Fuck that fucking piece of shit. "Bones that were there since the Panic." Sure, dude. Anything to convince yourself the Junta didn't firebomb us because we refused to accept their terms. Freakish piece of trash.

I lost family in Portland. Mom and Dad. Somehow all four of us survived years of Zack, only to get killed by these monsters. May they rot in hell.
The infected are only a threat to those who don't know about them, who haven't learned how to avoid or euthanize them. Institutions built by and composed of humans are always threats; they can adapt to anything a human might do to protect oneself. Even banding together with other humans, if the institution gets lucky.
 
Article: VAALAJARVI, FINLAND

[It is spring, "hunting season." As the weather warms, and the bodies of frozen zombies begin to reanimate, elements of the UN N-For (Northern Force) have arrived for their annual "Sweep and Clear." Every year the undead's numbers dwindle. At current trends, this area is expected to be completely "Secure" within a decade. Travis D'Ambrosia, Supreme Allied Commander, Europe, is here to personally oversee operations. There is a softness to the general's voice, a sadness. Throughout our interview, he struggles to maintain eye contact.]
Hmmm. Was re-reading an earlier part of the Let's Read and noticed this instance of Brooks using different, less Third Reich adjacent terminology for military forces. Figured it might be relevant to the discussion this thread was having about the book's use of "Army Groups."
 
Yeah, I really do think the "Army Group North/Center/South" thing is just a coincidence. It IS a very simple and logically obvious way to categorize the three giant mega-armies you have moving along a frontline that runs due north/south, and Nazi Germany during Barbarossa wasn't even the only country to do that kind of thing with its designations.

It's not authentic NATO milspeak, but it seems so unlikely that Brooks would use NATO milspeak directly, since it is the kind of thing that would require him to do actual research.

And while we can easily find lots of white-superiority and authoritarian undertones in the book, Brooks gives very few signs of personally being a wehraboo type romanticizing the Third Reich. It just doesn't show up in many places in the text of this or of the semi-contemporary companion volume World War Z.

Brooks' zombie fiction dates back to a different period in the evolution of post-Cold War Anglosphere fascism, where some of the underlying values and attitudes were firmly in place, but where even on the political right, overtly proclaiming fascist ideology was... fraught... and where neo-Nazis were still "officially" irrelevant losers to be rejected rather than rebranded as "alt-right" and listened to.
 
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I'm not talking organized rebels, just the odd LaMOE,[5] Last Man on Earth. There was always one or two in every town, some dude, or chick, who managed to survive. I read somewhere that the United States had the highest number of them in the world, something about our individualistic nature or something.


"I read somewhere" he says, like a liar. This is just… not true? By literally any measure, this isn't the case.

Anyway, "LaMOEs" - which is such a snivelling phrase for these people, by the way - just were not very common, sorry. Humans are not built to live alone under these conditions. They're effectively a fiction to explain the guerrilla war they found themselves fighting, because "Actually people are mad as hell we destroyed their government" doesn't fit when they are so committed to downplaying the prominence of their rival governments?

Even so far as they did exist, the largest number of them per capita was in Aotearoa, and the largest number total was in Nigeria. On all counts this is a lie, Todd's such a prick.

By Todd's definition you're completely correct, there were basically zero "lamoes" worldwide, I guess barring the ultra-rare Siberian or Alaskan hermit who lived in such isolation they might not have known anything was happening anyway. Todd, of course, is presenting a biased or simply ignorant view for one reason or another. Because of course there was hardly anyone around who lived, totally alone, in some isolated safe house or prepper bunker or whatever the hell and also had no damn idea anyone else was still alive. Because most of these people were the type to have anticipated an impending Apocalypse and had their secure location ready ahead of time, they tended to be equipped with a miraculous piece of technology known as a 'ham radio', and were entirely capable of communicating with the rest of the world, which was - as our intrepid interviewer has himself shown - absolutely flooding the world's airwaves at every moment of every day. The circumstances needed to have someone able to keep themselves alive for years, alone, but at no point scavenge any sort of working radio (Even a commercial receiver-only one was fine! There were info broadcasts all the time!) was so vanishingly rare as to be basically impossible. And as you allude to, humans aren't built for that kind of isolation. Even the most pessimistic isolated survivors would succumb to the need for hope and try to find a working radio.

Plus, as has also already been established by our man, despite everything the skies were not exactly empty of our technology in these years. Sure, some folks were stuck underground or indoors, but anyone able to look outside would stand a good chance of spotting an aircraft if they watched for awhile.

Even more than that though is that Todd omits discussion of the far more common dynamic of small survivor groups entirely. Someone all alone faces too many dangers to stand much chance. A small group, five or six at most, is another matter. Plenty of these, be they family units, friend groups, or randos thrown together by circumstance, managed to establish tiny locations where they survived until they could escape or be rescued. These had their own problems of course, and more than one fell apart to infighting or did some heinous shit like exiling folks over petty concerns. But the ability to sleep with someone else on watch, to specialize slightly so that one person can be a mechanic while another tends a farm plot, the simple expedience of having someone stand guard while you reinforce a fence - quite aside from the psychological issues of isolation, small groups fared far better than individuals.

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At least the guys down south knew that once they swept an area, it stayed swept. They didn't have to worry about rear area attacks like us. We swept every area at least three times. We used everything from ramrods and sniffer Ks to high-tech ground radar. Over and over again, and all of this in the dead of winter. We lost more guys to frostbite than to anything else. And still, every spring, you knew, you just knew…it'd be like, "oh shit, here we go again." I mean, even today, with all the sweeps and civilian volunteer groups, spring's like winter used to be, nature letting us know the good life's over for now.

This is an incredibly funny, in a twisted way, thing to say about AG South's experiences with zack. Yes, in the Southwest and much of Texas it was true; unless someone fucked up and left a basement uncleared or something, things were just peachy in that regard. It uh... boy, did it not hold true once they reached the bayous. Once they got to eastern Texas and Louisiana they were up shit creek, especially because of the full-scale war they were also fighting with the CSA. It's not like it's difficult to find all kinds of reports, statements, interviews, about some poor dumb bastard infantryman who had spent days with his squad picking through the wetlands, with zombies potentially lurking anywhere down there, only to suddenly get got from behind by a swampy zed.

See, in places like that, you have two problems that combine into a mega shitshow. First, it's simply not possible to properly check everything. You often don't get a remotely clear view of the bottom and doing it with sticks? Hahahaha okay, the Mississippi Delta is like three million square kilometers.

The second problem is what really shits everything up though. The first issue would be a problem, but a surmountable one, except that in places like that zombies turn into ultra bastards. They love to fall over in places like that, and sometimes they can't, or don't want to, get back up in a timely fashion. They just lie there face down on the bottom of a pool of stagnant water. In time they'll get covered to some extent by silt and whatnot, and their sense organs will be damaged by the constant water, and sounds etc will be muffled under there anyway. They still possess that creepy ability to know when food is around but without their other senses they often don't respond in a timely fashion to disturbances. They take longer to realize the living are traipsing around, and they usually have to take a good amount of time pulling themselves free of mud and plant growth and the like. All of which means it's very easy for someone, even someone being careful and with training and equipment, to pass by a submerged zed by just a few feet only for that rotting dude to haul his ass up out of the water minutes, hours, even days later.

So sure, they didn't have to reckon with the problem of hidden frozen zombies springing back to unlife, but they had their own problems down there.
 
Hm, yeah. Partially restrained infected like that seem way trickier to deal with than frozen zombies. Wait until spring or so and you know what all the frozen infected are doing. Ones trapped in the silt are less predictable.

I wonder what happens if one of the infected got trapped in a peat bog. It probably happened somewhere.
 
OOC: I mean a Swamp is actually an environment where Zombies actually work as a thing. A bit like an Undead Land Mine in said Swamp.

While, realisically? If looking at the standard Shambler Zombies of fiction? The Day of The Triffids as proto Zombie Fiction would be a way to actually have a Zombie Apocalypse work. The Zombie Apocalypse has started, and most of the world's population has gone blind at the same time. Which then adds ot the Zombies. Allowing for full swarms of Zombies to be shambling around. And nobody is coming to save the people with sight, because all those people who would save them have gone blind.
 
There's a reason why people's advice for fighting in Swamps is "Don't", you got the issues of fighting underwater, fighting in the jungle, and fighting in a city all at the same time.
The one good thing about the bayou is that, from what I've heard, they rot infected flesh like nothing else. The last of Louisiana's buried infected will fall apart while they're still defrosting up north.

Probably less true in temperate bogs. Especially if peat preserves the infected like it preserves the dead.
 
Being immersed in warm swamp water year-round does sound like a pretty good way to stress-test the whole "zombies are immune to normal processes of biological decomposition" schtick.
 
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