Lets Read: World War Z: An Oral History of the Zombie War

During WWII, the allies numbered their army groups, though they were sometimes colloquially referred to otherwise, and intermixed units from different nations. (E.G. the Fifteenth Army Group was referred to as the Southern Army Group and consisted of the US Seventh and Fifth army, the British Eight Army, plus a smattering of smaller units from different nations: a French and Polish Corps, a Brazilian division, and several Italian brigades). This doesn't seem uncommon, an 'Army Group' very often contains forces from separate nations. But it doesn't seem that Army Group North in this case contained parts of the Canadian military or anything like that.

In modern days the US Army is divided into various Army Service Component Commands, including six Unified Combatant Commands, which are, in fact, named geographically. There is a United States Northern Command, a United States Central Command, a United States Southern Command...

... except that USNORTHCOM refers to the entire North American continent and USCENTCOM is likewise, for instance, the middle east, etc. So... that's not really it.

That said they could plausibly have so many troops as to justify an XXXXX/Army Group level command? So that these formations exist is not completely absurd. Additionally, the Allies used (non-sequential) numbers at least partially for security reasons, and zombies aren't known for their intelligence. In either sense of the term. So, a simple geographic name could make sense, you could say it's not just a Wehrmacht thing so much as naming such large often ad-hoc formations after their intended purpose is simply intuitive. I'm not... super inclined to hold it against Brooks, though the fact he used the exact ordering of the words as the Wehrmacht as opposed to, like, 'Central Army Group', 'Central Front', or given all the other US Civil War references he's made, 'Military District of the...' river names optional.
OOC:
I mean, we know how NATO names army groups cause it has had them. It's always "Central Army Group" first, CENTAG in the cold war etc. I absolutely think that this is a deliberate reference if only an adhoc one. I don't think it's because Brooks is a Nazi. I think it's because he's like, a standards early 2000 military history guy who hasn't really thought deeply about any of the stuff he's using.

It's the same reason that Japan is taken over by Mishimaites. Brooks has not thought or researched deeply into what he writes about. Rather, he allows himself to write his unconscious or conscious prejudices.
 
It's the same reason that Japan is taken over by Mishimaites. Brooks has not thought or researched deeply into what he writes about. Rather, he allows himself to write his unconscious or conscious prejudices.
OOC:
I think you're right, but rule of cool also plays a part in why WWZ falls apart upon a little scrutiny.
I think the whole Japan subplot was intended as being "modern samurai fighting zombies led by the stereotypical Wise Master" and, like you said, Brooks didn't know or care to know that remilitarization and reverence of the Japanese Empire is a common position on the Japanese far-right (AFAIK).
Same with Russia. They are some sort of restored tsardom that fight with stereotypical WW2 Soviet tactics (and weapons, apparently) because that sounds cool. A brutal kind of cool that is just stereotypes about Russian warfare and society, but it's the zombie apocalypse and only HARD MEN MAKING HARD DECISIONS survive and who are the hardest men besides the WW2 Soviets?
 
You'd halt a section, a platoon, maybe even a company depending on how many you encountered, just enough to take 'em down and sanitize the battlefield. The hole your FAR unit left in the battle line was replaced by an equal force from the secondary line a click and a half behind you.

God, this fucking pisses me off. You know how we do Force Appropriate Response in the UAI? The way it was invented, which wasn't by the Junta at all! The 25th Air Cavalry in Krakow, once they linked up with the rest of the Land Forces, came up with FAR based off old NATO fast-reaction tactics from the Afghan brushfire, then wrote it into a Field Manual and broadcast it out via Radio Free Earth and any surviving military nets. The way it actually works is the main force calls it in, disengages, and an appropriate number of helicopters rolls in, scrapes the place with aerial fire, dismounts for cleanup, and moves on to the next call for help. Hell, I've seen it done in Canada in a two-ship of Caribou bush planes and some old Vickers MGs from a museum! None of this "halt a huge bunch of folks on foot or in trucks for however many hours and screw the whole advance."

And you might say, why didn't the Junta do that? Because they left all their best air assault folks to die hard in Kentucky and Pennsylvania during the Panic and because, like everything else about them, their hatred of "softness" extends to...rotary air power capacity?? Don't ask me why.
 
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:thonk: OOC I'm given to understand that Aztec Reconstructionism or whatever you'd call it isn't, like, a thing in Mexico, so I'm not sure what causes American reactionaries to think that Mexicans are just itchin' to throw up some huge pyramids so they can start carving out people's hearts again. Probably their usual mix of racism and projection; they go out of their way to never learn anything about their closest neighbour except for atrocities committed centuries ago and the most obviously terrible things happening there now, and they want to bring back religious and governmental forms that were abandoned centuries ago and so figure that everybody does. Hmm.

Aztlan as like…a cultural movement/focus is largely a Chicano/Mexican American thing, with the idea of a post-colonial 'home' of all Mexicans which includes Texas and California. It's largely figurative, and doesn't call for a restoration of Aztec religion so much as a post-colonial recentering of Nahuatl, but it's a concept that has bled over into sci fi, both written by actual Chicanos and by whites who think Aztlan is a cooler concept to use than Mexico. In particular, it's a little bit of an older idea — modern indigenous/leftist movements in Mexico proper are generally more de-evolutionist, focusing on recognition and independence for natives. Aztlan was a 90's idea tied into Chicano movement narratives, and nowadays rarely sees use outside of either Mexican-American writers doing science fiction settings where the Chicano movement is a success (cool) or white writers who like the name (lame).

You can guess which one this is.

Brooks doesn't really provide any reasoning for why the zombie war would make Mexico turn into Aztlan, particularly since he indicates that Mexico was still a thing during the restoration. America being really racist and weird about Mexico accepting natives makes about as much sense as American Chicanos taking advantage of the zombie apocalypse to declare the Mexican cultural homeland.
 
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OOC:
I think you're right, but rule of cool also plays a part in why WWZ falls apart upon a little scrutiny.
I think the whole Japan subplot was intended as being "modern samurai fighting zombies led by the stereotypical Wise Master" and, like you said, Brooks didn't know or care to know that remilitarization and reverence of the Japanese Empire is a common position on the Japanese far-right (AFAIK).
Same with Russia. They are some sort of restored tsardom that fight with stereotypical WW2 Soviet tactics (and weapons, apparently) because that sounds cool. A brutal kind of cool that is just stereotypes about Russian warfare and society, but it's the zombie apocalypse and only HARD MEN MAKING HARD DECISIONS survive and who are the hardest men besides the WW2 Soviets?

I think the thing about WWZ is that like the reviews and let's reads have said before it did kinda perfectly capture the 2000s zeitgeist in amber, a lot of these threads were already well established as generally Cool Shit(tm) in Clancy-esque novels, in COD games, in all sorts of action movies. What this did, the big thing it did, was take all that (while still rather idiosyncratic at times, fucking Lobo) and reformat it into the deadly seriousness it took being a zombie genre ode to old school popular histories and biographies of WW2. Max Brooks sets this out right there in the fictional and real forward and everything, and the annoying thing is that when it works, it works, there's been at least a couple really haunting and atmospheric interviews and points throughout that, sometimes, really feel like how people talk and how things happen. A lot of the fake zombie vaccine is extremely authentic to how the stock market, media, and government respond to crisis.

It's just when it doesn't work, when the serious world it reconstructs from out of action movies just completely doesn't resonate and is just a shadow of a shadow of something real, when its full of really dated references that would have always become dated, and clunky awkward railroading through the larger narrative arcs, and just completely silly-billy Reformer frameworks on military "realism", that's when it turns itself into a meme. A meme with deeply unexamined fascist elements sometimes running through it.
 
OOC: I really love how the novel shows how any government which actually uses the Redeker plan is also perfectly willing to preemptively wipe out all opposition.

Any government that used the Redeker plan is a government that did not view its citizens as people. Only "assets" and "liabilities".

Pratchett said it best: "Evil starts when you begin to treat people as things".


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One night in Portland, Maine, we were in Deering Oaks Park, policing piles of bleached bones that had been there since the Panic. Two grunts pick up these skulls and start doing a skit, the one from Free to Be, You and Me, the two babies. I only recognized it because my big brother had the record, it was a little before my time. Some of the older Grunts, the Xers, they loved it.


People will take any excuse to distract themselves when they're off duty. One of the people I used to shepherd with in Wales was this old guy who would try to entertain everyone when he was off duty by doing Monty Python skits and then painstakingly explaining the context around the skit. It filled the hours.

No idea why anyone would think this behaviour is symptomatic of being cracked, but Todd clearly did? It's just people being dumb, dude.

I don't know, exactly, why piles of bones needed to be policed? What was going to happen? I suspect it was literally just a way to get some time off.

My older sister and I used to do the Dead Parrot sketch together, for whatever audiences we had at the end of the day. It was some of the happiest times in my life.

I think the best thing, though, was the look on her face when a kid asked her how we came up with that. He was young enough that he'd never had any way of seeing the original material, so he thought we were the funniest people he'd ever met.


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I lost a buddy of mine that way, in a Wal-Mart in Rochester, New York. He was born in El Salvador but grew up in Cali. You ever heard of the Boyle Heights Boyz? They were these hard-core LA bangers who were deported back to El Salvador because they were technically illegal. My buddy was plopped there right before the war. He fought his way back up through Mexico, all during the worst days of the Panic, all on foot with nothing but a machete. He didn't have any family left, no friends, just his adopted home. He loved this country so much. Reminded me of my grandpa, you know, the whole immigrant thing. And then to catch a twelve-gauge in the face, probably set by a LaMOE who'd stopped breathing years before. Fuckin' mines and booby traps.


The Junta has an odd relationship with immigrants, I think - they consistently fearmonger about how they made up 25% of all ghouls in America, overwhelmed the infrastructure and so on - but also talk about how they're the "real" patriots, because they love America so much.

Curious sort of doublethink to keep sweet the immigrant workforce that props America up, whilst also not angering the wildly racist freaks who make up a lot of the bleeding edge of their military and are disproportionately represented in higher ranks - even under the New Clique.

On the note of that last - how long does he think a springwire trap can last? It almost assuredly was not set up by a "LaMOE who'd stopped breathing years before" but by someone who was deliberately seeking this outcome.

Can confirm. Western NY wasn't perfect by any stretch, but not one of these chucklefucks was stumbling across a booby trap...not with a perfectly good shotgun, anyway. The only way he knew somebody who got a faceful of twelve-gauge is if that somebody was trying to do something they shouldn't have.

Trouble is, I can't be sure if he's lying about what happened specifically, or lying about having been in New York in the first place and just picked names off of a fucking map. Because there sure as shit were no jackknifed rigs around Pulaski by the time they came through; those had better uses than being left on a highway for some dipshit to make up an anecdote about one.


Making it official and "taking what joy we can get" doesn't work either. At the time it hurt like someone had reached into my chest and pulled out my heart with red-hot claws.

She was from Glasgow and she never lost her accent or her hope for a better world, and I loved her so much, and I didn't truly think I would lose her, you know? We thought were were invincible. And then we were in those fucking tunnels and she died under Waterloo. Her name was Anna and I loved her. I thought the pain wouldn't ever end, and I still feel guilty sometimes that I found someone new and love her more.

It's the wounds that don't heal that kill us. They just do it slower.

I had a large and happy family, and had them right up until the end. Me, my little sister, and our niece are the only ones left. She's young enough that she barely remembers anything about any of this...which also means she doesn't remember her mother and father. She's calling us both "mom" more often these days, and I know she's saying it because we're the only parents that she's ever known, that she's saying it so we know she doesn't think of us as lesser guardians or "not her real mom" or whatever, and it's only ever done out of honesty and love and, god, genuine kindness.

But I've lost count of how many nights my sister and I have cried ourselves to sleep together after she calls one or both of us 'mom'. We don't have any pictures of her, something we could show our niece and say "this is your mom, and she was more amazing than either of us can ever be." Just images in her head where she's started seeing us instead of her mom & dad, and our own memories weighed down with what we lost and had to leave behind...and those have started to fail us, too. We miss her more than we remember her, I think.

(I had a brother once. I don't anymore. Just a junta bootlicker who has the same surname and has the sheer poisonous gall to live in my older sister's fucking home.)

I'm deeply sorry for your loss, comrade.
 
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Reactionpost!

Always, always OOC:

It worked less well as resistance stiffened.

For those of you less plugged into American news - any Mexicans reading this, for example - you may be surprised to learn that Mexico has been taken over by Aztec Restorationists. This is because the Americans are currently engaged in possibly the dumbest and most racist propaganda campaign they've tried since the war.
Heheh. Yeah, that checks out.

Even at the scale they actually attempted these "sweep and clear" operations - typically at the brigade or regimental level, occasionally a division if they were feeling especially confident in the sweep not finding anything - the two line system would obviously and immediately disintegrate into a ramshackle mess - you drop out of line and a replacement force moves to take your place but whilst they're marching that 1.5k, another three "FAR units" have dropped out and it's become incomprehensible where the actual line is.

Now imagine doing this across a continent. Bafflingly stupid misunderstanding of the operation, and since it is a matter of public record that Wainio was in the army by this point, he's not making this up! He genuinely thinks this is how they cleared America! He's just dumb enough to mistake his brigade for the whole army, I fear.
Also, infantry privates do not necessarily have a good understanding of what the brigade is doing. Wainio could plausibly be mistaking the way his company could feasibly do things (sweeping a front of at most several hundred meters' width at a time) for the way an entire army would organize at much larger scales.

We tended to clear suburbia when we controlled it, though - living in individual houses is a spook which discourages any sense of communal ownership of the space you live in, and - more pragmatically - leaves you more susceptible to dying preventably without anyone noticing.
The 'communal ownership' thing is very likely in-character for the author, but out-of-character I'm not so sure.

Medieval European villages were very communal in a lot of cases, but tended to live in homes sized to accommodate a single extended family with typical household sizes of 5-10. They weren't building little mini-insulae for themselves.

Then again, those medieval European villagers labored together in partially shared croplands and had collective communal rights to key forms of subsistence in the land around them like "right to gather firewood" and "right to let your hogs out to eat the acorns," so it might be hard to replicate that in a modern community where it's often neither necessary nor even desirable for the workers to be closely co-located with their workplaces.

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Ferals were a much more dangerous threat. A lot of them weren't kids anymore, some were teenagers, some full grown. They were fast, smart, and if they chose fight instead of flight, they could really mess up your day. Of course, HR would always try and dart them, and, of course, that didn't always work. When a two-hundred-pound feral bull is charging balls out for your ass, a couple CCs of tranq ain't gonna drop him before he hits home.


HR - human reclamation - was a sad little pet project of the Governor of Oregon, and he rode it the whole way into the ground. Underfunded, underappreciated and largely only treated as a fig leaf, you just need to look at how soldiers like Wainio talk about "feral bulls" to know how HR was treated by the army at large. Hell, even "HR" is an acronym with some baggage under the junta, right? Casualty of their war on the professional managerial class as being weak and effeminate.

Anyway, a "200 pound feral bull" is more accurately going to be used to describe a teenager - statistically likely to be African-American based on figures for which "ferals" were shot dead by Junta forces (though as we only have vague figures taken from defectors and Mexican troops detached to the US, the figures could be wrong, I suppose) which makes use of "bull" sit uncomfortably with various nasty strains of American racism, if in this case possibly unintentionally - who has been so malsocialised that they need a soft touch. Generally speaking the children and teenagers in this position could be - based on similar cases in other countries - talked down by a qualified specialist. No need for tranquilisers, certainly no need for incendiary rounds. Brute.
God, yeah. The implicit racial subtext and all really comes through now, rereading all this nearly twenty years later and in the wake of a lot of things that made explicit to me what I only dimly understood at the time.

The idea that children growing up in a zombie apocalypse are going to turn into berserk "ferals" who try to kill armed men for no readily apparent reason, in and of itself, betrays a profound ignorance of human nature on the part of the author. And the racial subtext of just which kind of adolescents get called "feral bulls" is very, very obvious.

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If a dart didn't stop a feral, we sure as hell did. Nothing screams as high as a feral with a PIE round burning in his gut. The HR pukes had a real problem with that. They were all volunteers, all sticking to this code that human life, any human's life, was worth trying to save. I guess history sorta backed them up now, you know, seeing all those people that they managed to rehabilitate, all the ones we just woulda shot on sight.


I am trying to imagine the mindset required to still be this transparently pissed at the "HR pukes" with their politically correct notion that human life has value.

I just can't do it though. To be this begrudging about the utter vindication of the idea that not murdering kids was the right call, you have to be so deeply invested in the idea that murdering kids was the right thing to do.

Am I saying Todd Wainio murdered kids en masse whilst on active duty? Yes, I am - what's he gonna do about it? Try to sue me for libel? I'm in Cuba, moron.

Anyway, it isn't just me. [HERE] is the testimony of a Human Reclamation operative he served with, which I found with only a little digging. Hideous little war criminal.
Yeah, that checks out. Also checks out with (1) in-universe Todd's willingness to act as a mouthpiece for the Junta, because he's very much sold his soul to their ideology as a psychopath who finds it a good excuse for doing what he wants to do, and (2) out-of-universe Brooks' general type of distinctly early-2000s-rightish depravity about human nature, the "dirty masses," and so on, and so on.

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I was stepping through the window of a Starbucks and suddenly three of them leap at me from behind the counter. They knock me over, start tearing at my arms, my face. How do you think I got this?

[He refers to the scar on his cheek.]


Godspeed you beautiful feline bastards, Godspeed.
:)

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I'm not talking organized rebels, just the odd LaMOE,[5] Last Man on Earth. There was always one or two in every town, some dude, or chick, who managed to survive. I read somewhere that the United States had the highest number of them in the world, something about our individualistic nature or something.


"I read somewhere" he says, like a liar. This is just… not true? By literally any measure, this isn't the case.

Anyway, "LaMOEs" - which is such a snivelling phrase for these people, by the way - just were not very common, sorry. Humans are not built to live alone under these conditions. They're effectively a fiction to explain the guerrilla war they found themselves fighting, because "Actually people are mad as hell we destroyed their government" doesn't fit when they are so committed to downplaying the prominence of their rival governments?
Thaaaat checks out, yeah. Lone survivalists are not likely to do well, and if they did survive they wouldn't be randomly turning their guns on the first organized army to come back into town after years of fending off zombies all by themselves.

But it's a great propaganda line to avoid admitting that you're having to fight constant endemic guerilla warfare to retake land, when you view the in-setting reality of the zombies and the cultural archetype of "the people who oppose or don't fit into my vision of a vaguely fascistic military-STRONK whites-supreme capitalist Murica" into one.

Of course someone like Wainio is shooting "feral bulls" en masse along with the zombies; the zombies were always, on some level, an excuse for everyone but the Wainios of the world to die.

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We were closing on the Sears Tower in Chicago. Chicago, that was enough nightmares for three lifetimes. It was the middle of winter, wind whipping off the lake so hard you could barely stand, and suddenly I felt Thor's hammer smash me in the head. Slug from a high-powered hunting rifle. I never complained about our hard covers anymore after that. The gang in the tower, they had their little kingdom, and they weren't giving it up for anyone. That was one of the few times we went full convent; SAWs, nades, that's when the Bradleys started making a comeback.


I do not know a single veteran of the SR's army who does not openly wish they had been part of this stay-behind force. Approximately two thousand volunteers who went underground until the increasingly threadbare frontline psychopaths with most of what was left of the Junta's armour had gone through and was planning the assault on Detroit and into the East, then occupied various spots to tie up the cleanup front, of which Todd was a part.

They put snipers in Sears Tower, set landmines all about the city, put razorwire in doorways… They did whatever they could to make the city a horrific quagmire, and it worked - the Americans had to rush their armour back to Chicago, and the month and a half it took for them to crush them was more than long enough for the mass evacuation of the Eastern half of the Socialist Republic.
❤️

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There's been a lot of stories about questionable survival methods used by certain isolated zones.

Yeah, so? Ask them about it.


I give Todd credit so rarely, but this is one of those occasions - this is, in fact, the correct response to a journalist trying to prod you into endorsing the Junta's show trials of anyone from the isolated zones who is now trying to crack into American politics.
Heh.

And yeah, that checks out. Junta really, really isn't going to want to admit anyone who survived east of the Rockies into power, or anywhere near power.

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Sickness was a big one, the kinds of diseases that were supposed to be gone, like, in the Dark Ages or something. Yeah, we took our pills, had our shots, ate well, and had regular checkups, but there was just so much shit everywhere, in the dirt, the water, in the rain, and the air we breathed. Every time we entered a city, or liberated a zone, at least one guy would be gone, if not dead then removed for quarantine. In Detroit, we lost a whole platoon to Spanish flu. The brass really freaked on that one, quarantined the whole battalion for two weeks.


Conspiracy theories about what disease it was that killed a platoon of American occupying troops in Detroit are insanely commonplace. I've heard it was the Spanish Flu, I've heard it was a bioweapon, I've heard it was a virus that made the jump from a bird or mammal someone shouldn't have eaten - like, a virus that would "usually" just give you a cold, but since it was completely new to their system, it was a lot worse? - but for my money, it was just the flu? Like, a normal flu. People die, especially people who are exhausted and malnourished.

Todd is parroting rumours he's heard and trying to pass them off as things he knows from personal experience again. Exhausting.
Could just be that the whole platoon ate something with botulinum in it, and somehow they decided to hush it up for some dumb reason.

People will take any excuse to distract themselves when they're off duty. One of the people I used to shepherd with in Wales was this old guy who would try to entertain everyone when he was off duty by doing Monty Python skits and then painstakingly explaining the context around the skit. It filled the hours.

No idea why anyone would think this behaviour is symptomatic of being cracked, but Todd clearly did? It's just people being dumb, dude.
To be fair, doing it with human skulls is a little fucked up, you might say.

I don't know, exactly, why piles of bones needed to be policed? What was going to happen? I suspect it was literally just a way to get some time off.
Linguistic context: I think in this case 'policing' is being used in the rare sense of 'to tidy up, organize, or put away loose objects.' If there's a bunch of random scattered skeletons that scavengers picked over years ago, just lying around on the ground or something, it is not surprising that in a situation like this, someone will say to a bunch of grunts "go gather up those bones so we can put them in the mass grave."[/quote]
 
Well, um.
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We were rock stars. I got more…well…if there's a bunch of little dudes between here and the Hero City that happen to look like me…[Laughs.]

It's not a typo. Brooks did his best to make it clear that the US soldiers fucked a lot of women without using any synonym for "fuck".

I chose the word "inseminate" because it's a very technical word with unclear connotations in a human context. Max Brooks would doubtless have us believe that the sex between soldiers and civilians was all consensual, that women kept hitting on the manly men for being so manly and heroic. Historically, that's not the context under which sex between soldiers and civilians takes place, and Wainio's testimony only specifies that a lot of the women he inseminated got pregnant, so...
Fun fact. Japanese apologists would reference a US army report about comfort women in IJA brothels, about them being paid volunteers.

Missing out one key context there.

Many comfort women would later work as sex workers in the US army brothel. It took decades but we now know from interviews with the survivors how stigma led them to continue sex work with the US army out of desperation and well....

One should also note that while the US army never officially endorsed or operated said brothels, the brothels ran on connections to the US army and etc.

I forgot the book that highlighted the links in Korea, Thailand and Japan to the US army but it was....enlightening how things are.
Coercion happens in more ways than just force or economic. Social coercion and stigma were also a factor, especially in patriarchal Asia where women could be sold into sex work.
 
Always OOC:

Fascinating that the Junta immediately went to copying names of German formations off of the Eastern Front isn't it? I know they're fascists but I don't even think it's a proper nazi thing. I think it's just that they think the Wehrmacht is cool.
I'll say it again:

The sheer size of the armies required to sweep and clear the North American continent after zombies had taken over a big slice of it would necessitate the restoration of the "Army Group" level designation, because you're talking about putting millions of rifles in millions of hands. The existence of a clearly defined front line that runs on a more or less north-south axis makes it reasonably logical that you would designate the commands with names like "Army Groups North, Center, and South."

While we're at it, the French in World War One had an Army Group North, Army Group Center, and Army Group East because the front lines bent around a bit.

Now, could you also name the groups "one, two, and three" or "A, B, and C?" Theoretically, yes.

But this isn't really a worthwhile place to pin fascism on, or "Wehraboo"-ness on. Both fascists and nonfascists use the concepts of north, south, east, and west, and high-level military organization into divisions, corps, armies, and army groups is a standard feature of all modern armies.

The second line also presumably provided blocking forces to prevent the guys in the first line from deciding discretion was the better part in the face of a large ghoul swarm or the like, right?
Uh, theoretically maybe, but in practice they probably honestly are there as a reserve force mostly?

Like, if suddenly 10,000 zombies come pouring out of a dip in the terrain and you didn't see it coming, you'd want your front line of skirmishers to fall back and consolidate with the first line.

Now, within the reality of the AU that's being spun up so well in this Let's Read, sure, maybe the Junta actually was crazed enough and bad at morale enough that they needed blocking forces. But really, you'd want your sweeping forces advancing in multiple lines whether they were doing that or not.

That said they could plausibly have so many troops as to justify an XXXXX/Army Group level command? So that these formations exist is not completely absurd. Additionally, the Allies used (non-sequential) numbers at least partially for security reasons, and zombies aren't known for their intelligence. In either sense of the term. So, a simple geographic name could make sense, you could say it's not just a Wehrmacht thing so much as naming such large often ad-hoc formations after their intended purpose is simply intuitive. I'm not... super inclined to hold it against Brooks, though the fact he used the exact ordering of the words as the Wehrmacht as opposed to, like, 'Central Army Group', 'Central Front', or given all the other US Civil War references he's made, 'Military District of the...' river names optional.
I kind of agree, yeah, as I said above.

In the English language, using "fronts" instead of "army groups" doesn't come naturally, and "Army of the [rivername]" doesn't work in the context of the terrain being fought over and the overall theater of operations from the Rockies to the Eastern Seaboard, because you'd have to repeatedly redesignate the units as they advanced.

There's plenty of stuff we can nail Brooks for, when it comes to latent fascism, so I prefer not to put weight on something as rickety as this.

OOC: Man, he handles feral kids worse than even the cop from way back.

But then, I think a fair amount of zombie fiction just fundamentally doesn't believe human life intrinsically has value. Like, it's usually a contrived scenario that emphasizes 'lifeboat ethics', 'survivalism' on an individual level, and paranoia being life-saving. The prospect of a cure to zombie infections is rarely even raised, let alone allowed for by the scenarios' creators -- and of course, the zombies themselves are usually just targets, rather than victims.

It's honestly kinda sad that a creation of Haitian folklore inspired by the horrors of plantation slavery got hijacked into this.
Yeah, frankly. To all of this. The underlying idea that motivates zombie apocalypse fiction is "the mindless hordes of useless eating people are now a threat to the useful good people who matter." It is inherently a story concept that leaps readily into the hands of a certain kind of artist, waiting to be played like a fiddle. And the kind of artist in question is the kind who, on some level, does not really consider most human lives to be valuable.

The bit about "feral bulls" is likewise kind of fascinating because, like, how are these people surviving out there? How are they surviving in a zombie infested wilderness and yet acting like insane berserkers who will attempt to charge an armed soldier to engage in melee?
Yeah. It only works either:

1) If you enter the wildly unrealistic mindset the author has, where certain kinds of people just 'go feral' and there's no question of how they even live or whether it's psychologically realistic, because they exist to be killed by the protagonist, like the stereotypical "orc guarding a treasure chest in a 10x10 foot room" in D&D.

OR...

2) If you read between the lines and recognize that these are innocent people, teenagers, who were shot dead by the advancing forces of the junta for any number of reasons and retroactively labeled as "ferals who charged me."

Yeah it's something that would make more sense in a setting where your zombies are runners, more the movie than the book - there at least you've got an argument that if you're spotted it's already too late to run, so your best hope of survival is immediate, explosive violence, put the zombie down hard before it can attract more, then break contact and make distance. But the book is pretty consistent that 'zack' is all shamblers, which... You don't even need to outrun, a brisk walking pace is your best defense lol.
Plus also the part where Max Brooks zombies are super-infectious, so if they bite you even once or any blood or whatever gets into you, you're dead.

Someone who would charge a zombie with their bare hands would be dead many times within a few years in Brooks zombie apocalypse country.
 
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Linguistic context: I think in this case 'policing' is being used in the rare sense of 'to tidy up, organize, or put away loose objects.'
That would be my assumption as well. As an example I have been told to "police the brass" on a range pretty much every time I go to one and it means gathering it all up and putting it in bags.

It's a common enough phrase that I wouldn't be surprised Brooks found it with the absolute mininal level of research he seems to do.
 
Yeah, frankly. To all of this. The underlying idea that motivates zombie apocalypse fiction is "the mindless hordes of useless eating people are now a threat to the useful good people who matter." It is inherently a story concept that leaps readily into the hands of a certain kind of artist, waiting to be played like a fiddle. And the kind of artist in question is the kind who, on some level, does not really consider most human lives to be valuable.

I do think there's one extra Brooks layer, which is that he has kind of a weird reverence for the national governments in this? The Redeker plan needs to be justified, and so things that would usually happen in zombie fiction - lone survivalists making it against all odds, groups of people working together to stay alive in isolation, etc - can suddenly become targets of criticism too, if it would justify the resurgent Hard Men Making Hard Decisions government. That's at least a little non standard, and honestly in a lot of zombie fiction if you had the government explicitly pulling out of most of the country and letting people survive on their own you'd then call the government cowards, or bureaucrats who didn't know what they were doing and start valorizing the Real Men Left Behind or whatever.

I really do wonder where this particular mindset is coming from for Brooks.
 
I'll say it again:

The sheer size of the armies required to sweep and clear the North American continent after zombies had taken over a big slice of it would necessitate the restoration of the "Army Group" level designation, because you're talking about putting millions of rifles in millions of hands. The existence of a clearly defined front line that runs on a more or less north-south axis makes it reasonably logical that you would designate the commands with names like "Army Groups North, Center, and South."

While we're at it, the French in World War One had an Army Group North, Army Group Center, and Army Group East because the front lines bent around a bit.

Now, could you also name the groups "one, two, and three" or "A, B, and C?" Theoretically, yes.

But this isn't really a worthwhile place to pin fascism on, or "Wehraboo"-ness on. Both fascists and nonfascists use the concepts of north, south, east, and west, and high-level military organization into divisions, corps, armies, and army groups is a standard feature of all modern armies.
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Yeah, but it's most commonly known for WW2.

NATO would designate them CENTAG, SOUTHAG and NORTHAG. Army Groups South, North and Centre are in common memories of 2000s era people, eastern front
 
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Yeah, but it's most commonly known for WW2.

NATO would designate them CENTAG, SOUTHAG and NORTHAG. Army Groups South, North and Centre are in common memories of 2000s era people, eastern front
The one thing I will say is that Brooks' entire mode of language for talking about "World War Z" is de-NATO-fied in that a lot of the acronym structure is replaced with random weird neologisms and nicknames. We've had a lot of discussion of 'LaMOE' in the context of this update, for instance.

Another example is 'DeStRes' for 'Department of Strategic Resources,' rather than something normal like 'the DSR,' which is what I'm pretty sure real world US government people would call it.

Brooks basically just makes up his own style of language for things because he doesn't know shit, and don't think it's realistic to expect him to use phrases like 'SOUTHAG' when most of his readers wouldn't recognize them and odds are neither would he.

[shrugs]

It's just really fucking subtle by the standards of Wehrabooism, when he could so easily have done so much more Wehrabooing if he was actually inclined to do that. I feel like it's digging way too deep looking for gold when there are big nuggets literally lying there right on the surface.
 
I'm guessing Brooks is just more pro-authority than the average person who writes a zombie apocalypse story?

Maximum charitably take: he intended it to make his story stand out from the usual zombie survival fantasies and add realism, and he's just not well informed enough to execute the realistic strategy parts so you get civil war rifles for cool.

I still think it's a point to keep in mind for the analysis, that he's prone to civil wars or reformations but not really new societies forming? So like Mexico can have a return to Aztec tradition but it's not going to splinter into divided survivalist enclaves, there's still A Mexican Government to do redeker and to take back the territory etc
 
The one thing I will say is that Brooks' entire mode of language for talking about "World War Z" is de-NATO-fied in that a lot of the acronym structure is replaced with random weird neologisms and nicknames. We've had a lot of discussion of 'LaMOE' in the context of this update, for instance.

Another example is 'DeStRes' for 'Department of Strategic Resources,' rather than something normal like 'the DSR,' which is what I'm pretty sure real world US government people would call it.

Brooks basically just makes up his own style of language for things because he doesn't know shit, and don't think it's realistic to expect him to use phrases like 'SOUTHAG' when most of his readers wouldn't recognize them and odds are neither would he.
To be fair, it seems like Max's neologisms are consistently acronyms mutilated until they look like words.

Last Man on Earth —> LMoE —> LaMOE —> Lame-o
Department of Strategic Resources —> DSR —> DeStRes —> De-stress (or possibly "distress"?)

It feels less like him not knowing how militaries name things, and more like him knowing and twisting it a bit to match what he wanted the terminology to sound like and not realizing he twisted it into something unrecognizable.


I still think it's a point to keep in mind for the analysis, that he's prone to civil wars or reformations but not really new societies forming? So like Mexico can have a return to Aztec tradition but it's not going to splinter into divided survivalist enclaves, there's still A Mexican Government to do redeker and to take back the territory etc
Hm, yeah. And that's weird, because the USA does not let people forget that new societies can form from civil wars and such (though they'd rather call it a "revolution").

If I was going to guess how Max Brooks thought about this, I'd say that he's thinking of the zombie apocalypse as a collapse of "society," and the Redeker Plan as a way for "society" to endure the apocalypse, rather than seeing it as a change in society, recognizing survivor enclaves and such as a new kind of society that the old society wants to crush and absorb.
 
I wonder if he was really into alt history for this project or anything? They often have a similar vibe of keeping the state names pretty similar but with radical shifts in structure or ideology.

Aztlan being literally the Aztec sacrifice country feels like a lazy hoIV mod choice to me at least.
 
I wonder if he was really into alt history for this project or anything? They often have a similar vibe of keeping the state names pretty similar but with radical shifts in structure or ideology.

Aztlan being literally the Aztec sacrifice country feels like a lazy hoIV mod choice to me at least.

I don't think that's a Brooks thing, that's Vet's interpretation for why Americans are calling Mexico Aztlan in the books when it doesn't make any sense. I don't think he really expands on Aztlan at all beyond saying that's what Mexico is called now.

It is a HOI4 mod style of doing things though. Colombia and Venezuela unify into Nova Grenada for some reason. Russia becomes the Holy Russian Empire. Japan is an empire again. There's no real rhyme or reason for these changes, they're clearly just things that he thinks would be cool.
 
To be fair, it seems like Max's neologisms are consistently acronyms mutilated until they look like words.

Last Man on Earth —> LMoE —> LaMOE —> Lame-o
Department of Strategic Resources —> DSR —> DeStRes —> De-stress (or possibly "distress"?)

It feels less like him not knowing how militaries name things, and more like him knowing and twisting it a bit to match what he wanted the terminology to sound like and not realizing he twisted it into something unrecognizable.

I mean, this is absolutely how real militaries do naming a lot of the time. Often they'll even decide on the acronym first and then wedge the words in to get the desired acronym.

A (frankly unsurprising) amount of military stuff is macho posturing, and the acronyms are 100% part of that.
 
I wonder if he was really into alt history for this project or anything? They often have a similar vibe of keeping the state names pretty similar but with radical shifts in structure or ideology.

Aztlan being literally the Aztec sacrifice country feels like a lazy hoIV mod choice to me at least.
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I doubt it and in the book all we hear about Mexico is that they renamed themselves Aztlan sometime after the reclamation IIRC.

As for "Aztlan," I think he'd heard the name and it's association with Mexico, knew that the Aztecs were in Mexico before the Spanish, thought it was a cool native name and put it in the book to imply developments in Mexico that weren't in the book.
 
To be fair, it seems like Max's neologisms are consistently acronyms mutilated until they look like words.

Last Man on Earth —> LMoE —> LaMOE —> Lame-o
Department of Strategic Resources —> DSR —> DeStRes —> De-stress (or possibly "distress"?)

It feels less like him not knowing how militaries name things, and more like him knowing and twisting it a bit to match what he wanted the terminology to sound like and not realizing he twisted it into something unrecognizable.
See, what I mean is, given a choice between doing research or actually learning how a distinct subculture or group really talks in real life, and just coming up with some stupid lame dumbass edgy name that he really likes, Brooks will choose the name he rally likes every time.

Hm, yeah. And that's weird, because the USA does not let people forget that new societies can form from civil wars and such (though they'd rather call it a "revolution").

If I was going to guess how Max Brooks thought about this, I'd say that he's thinking of the zombie apocalypse as a collapse of "society," and the Redeker Plan as a way for "society" to endure the apocalypse, rather than seeing it as a change in society, recognizing survivor enclaves and such as a new kind of society that the old society wants to crush and absorb.
Yeah, that's why I think of him as more authoritarian than the average zombie apocalypse writer. Because he identifies "society" with a specific hierarchy. To him, if you're not part of a valid hierarchy, you're just plain less of a person than if you're not.

This is why people he wants to present as the bad guys (e.g. that billionaire in the Antarctic bunker, or the political consultant) are always, always outside society. No one who's in a position of power or respect or dignity can be one of the bad guys.

This is why Wainio talking about "feral bulls" is probably not meant by Brooks to make his character instantly unsympathetic, and why Brooks imagines "Lame-os" constantly taking potshots at an advancing army that is supposedly just doing the objectively correct thing in liberating them from zombie hordes. Because the people who are isolated and cut off from authority (to Brooks, the only true form of civilization and society) aren't really people anymore. They are at most background scenery and at worst just a different type of scary monster to be broken by the forces of authority.
 
In the English language, using "fronts" instead of "army groups" doesn't come naturally, and "Army of the [rivername]" doesn't work in the context of the terrain being fought over and the overall theater of operations from the Rockies to the Eastern Seaboard, because you'd have to repeatedly redesignate the units as they advanced.
To be fair the river name armies/districts didn't necessarily operate in the region of the river they were named for.

Brooks basically just makes up his own style of language for things because he doesn't know shit, and don't think it's realistic to expect him to use phrases like 'SOUTHAG' when most of his readers wouldn't recognize them and odds are neither would he.
SouArG, then. Sounds like 'Argh' at the end, because why not?
 
To be fair the river name armies/districts didn't necessarily operate in the region of the river they were named for.


SouArG, then. Sounds like 'Argh' at the end, because why not?
Again, the question is whether we're actually talking about what WOULD happen in this situation, or whether we're talking about what Max Brooks writing a book would do, which is probably just "throw together the first vaguely plausible combination of words that loosely matches things."
 
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