The sad thing? It's Crane's duty as servants of Hantei to organize Scorpions to go check how much truth Crabs are telling then organize rest of the clans in proper response if they do. Crabs don't politics because it was supposed to be Cranes doing that.

Sad thing that in theory Crane have a point (kinda like Kolat) - what Crab did the moment they though they are actually winning over Shadowlands... *facepalm*

Hey.

They only allied with the Shadowlands and invaded the Empire to save the Empire from being invaded by the Shadowlands!

.........

Look, it made sense when Hida Armstrong explained it, okay?
 
But are they different? Or are they just too busy defending to do something stupid?

Though shit like on this court certainly doesn't help...

Here's the Cliff Notes....

The issue with the clan war Crab fighting with the shadowlands (Really an issue of winning crab decks at the time using tainted cards and that bleeding over into story) was the shadowlands corrupted the Kuni Daimyo at the time, Kuni Yori. Yori was a close adviser to Hida Kisada, who had come to hate the Hantai Dynasty for it's weak leaders and unwillingness to force the clans to attack the true enemy.

Anyway, over several yeas Yori convinced Kisada that the shadowlands feared him, and he could use them to take the throne. Afterword Emperor Kisada would kill his tainted allies and the united forces of rokugan would wipe the shadowlands back to the Black finger river and a new Kaui Wall built.

Needless to say, it went less well. The emperor was possessed by Ful leng at that points, broke kisada's back over his knee and gut stabbed him with the ancestral sword of the hantai (Depending on which edition of L5R, was a katana or no-dachi. Early on it was No-dachi).

Saved by his son Yakamo, he commanded the crab armies and advised Toturi on how to fight the tainted. Took him three years to die of his wounds given to him by the Fallen god. On his death, Toturi declared him fortune of persistence.
 
Basically, it came down to "The Crane spending a millenia fucking with the Crab--and everyone else largely going along with them because they didn't want to show up on the Crane's crosshairs--led to the Crab eventually getting a tainted Daimyo at the same time the Clan Champion was both rather powerful and rather fed up with all the bullshit, and it ended up with Kisada's Alliance with the Shadowlands.

Not saying the Crab was innocent (Because seriously, Kisada had something along the lines of one thousand years of precedent telling him that any alliance with the Shadowlands was an affront to Heaven--And a terrifically bad idea), but the fact that he was in a position where he hated the current order of things more than he hated his ancestral enemies was a good example of how you can't really keep poking the arthopods and expecting nothing bad to happen just because they're too busy protecting the Empire to throw their massive army at you.

And of course, the Crane learned nothing from any of this. Because they were right back to dicking with everyone as soon as the smoke cleared.

Seriously. Yes, they have excellent duelists, their courtiers are scary, and they're fantastic artisans. But that doesn't mean they're the only Clan that matters
 
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I don't think anyone was contesting they're the only clan that matters. Just that the Crane have their own reasons for not liking the Crab and they're valid ones.
 
[X] Seek out the Scorpion, perhaps Bayushi Yamato will be able to offer advice or information.

The Scorpion will never betray us, unlike those Crane meanies.
 
The Scorpion will never betray us, unlike those Crane meanies.

This is definitely something we should keep in mind. Bayushi Yamato isn't dumb, he's going to know exactly what we're trying to do by chatting with him, and will react accordingly. The Scorpion aren't going to help us just to be nice, or probably even just to poke the Crane. They're going to help us if and only if they think it will help them somehow, and only so long as helping us is better for them than otherwise.

But like I said in my initial thoughts, I don't think talking to the Scorpion is necessarily a bad move, just a risky one.
 
Double post because I forgot to actually vote. Not that it matters, but...

[X] Talk to Hantei-heika. He's surrounded by people from the Imperial Families and looking bored, maybe he needs another rescue?

It's not a move that'll help us "win" against the Crane (I actually think the Scorpion bandwagon is indeed the best option for that), but we're not really here to try to win against them. The Crane Craned us, and we took our lumps, but overall it wasn't that bad, and I think our primary objective here should be to get out of Winter Court without any of the Great Clans deciding that we're enemies who need to be shown our place in the order of things.
 
Is there any way to spin this as a crane accusation that our clan is tainted? I mean... jade tea? That's hardly subtle. Now sure there's context and all that, but it occurs to me that making an accusation like that ended poorly for the last guy who did it... and if anyone can 'misinterpret' a gesture and make it stick, it'd be
[x] The scorpion

Anyway, couple of other things now that I story binged...


Since we're dealing with the opium trade, some interesting experimental archaeology on that.


Also, since we've had some geography-reconciliation woes, found this quote from the guy who made the 4e map.
There's actually a rough scale attached to most of the maps, but if you're hoping for a geographical survey with modern-era accuracy, then you will be disappointed.

The maps are "accurate enough" to give a good idea of how far apart things are, how long it might take to get from one spot to another, etc. But they're also drawn similarly to how a Rokugani cartographer might draw them. The size of cities and castles, for instance, vary based on their political importance and the influence of their lords, not their actual size, and some things have been represented with an emphasis on aesthetics rather than accuracy. The cartographer would not want to insult certain lords by implying certain locations are "more important" or "grander" than their own, and certain borders are disputed between clans, resulting in compromises on the map. This is touched upon in the book. I did my best to find a middle ground between "this is exactly how far these are apart" and "this map is loving useless." It won't please everyone, but hopefully it will please most.

It's better than the 2nd Ed maps, at least. And although I'm not a cartographer, I can promise at least that I was consistent in scale.

The maps are also attempting to make some sense of the often contradictory nature of L5R lore in regards to where things are. For instance, prior to 4th Edition, the Hare Clan lands are described to be in three different locations based on the era, as are the magical teleporting Centipede lands. Or the Kitsune Mori, which is simultaneously snaking thin and extremely vast, bordering lands that later are described as not sharing a border, etc. We had to somehow reconcile this in the Atlas. With contradicting sources, and earlier sources making less sense than newer ones in some cases, which one do you go with? And don't get me started on Zakyo Toshi, it's supposed to guard the borders of clans that don't share borders! Some locations, frankly, just don't make sense, and our challenge is that we have to somehow make sense of them on the map.

The magically-changing size of Rokugan is also addressed and we attempt to "fix" the problems of inconsistency of size between editions. We seriously had so many headaches trying to make a map that was as faithful to all of the existing material as possible, and in the end, we had to make some difficult gut calls. But honestly, I am extremely proud of how it all turned out. I am proud to say that this is the definitive map of Rokugan, and I honestly feel that it is better and more complete than any previous map to be released. At the very least, it will be more dependable than the maps of 3rd Edition, more consistent than the 4th Edition map, and more useful/accurate than the 2nd Edition maps.

A lot of time and love went into these. I hope most people like them.
Apparently making the maps is a bit hard.
 
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Winter 913 - Turn 2.9 - A Scorpion's Assistance
[X] Seek out the Scorpion, perhaps Bayushi Yamato will be able to offer advice or information.

You fume.

Doji Ran has effectively maneuvered you in such a way that you suspect you will still be discovering the implications of her actions for months. The brutal truth is that you do not have the skill, the status, or the knowledge of the situation to even begin to counter such attacks. Of course, there are people in the room who do. As tempting as it would be to remove yourself from the situation temporarily by speaking to the Minor Clans or to the Phoenix, you are not yet willing to admit defeat. The Crane are probably expecting you to seek support from the Crab or the Emperor, and may have moves planned to counter such actions.

They probably aren't expecting you to go to Bayushi Yamato. True, Scorpions make for untrustworthy allies, but as far as you can tell, they're much more likely to use you to take a shot at their real rivals among the Crane or Lion than to further attack someone who poses little threat to them. And, you have a convenient pretext to go speak to them. As you start heading over to the Scorpion delegation, you turn to ask for one of the bottles of sake that are being used as gifts, only to see that your followers are currently holding a Tetsu-eku, a jade teapot, a display stand, jade prayer beads, and the sake bottles as well, so that fully half of your delegation is toting some form of gift around. You hurriedly grab a heimin servant and have him set up an area over to the side with a screen so that the gifts you are carrying can be safely set behind it. With that done, you are finally able to move to the back of the room.

The room is becoming much more mixed now, with most delegations splitting off by ones and twos to mingle, meet, and otherwise gain social advantage for their respective clans. You give a nod to Yu, Koibu, and Chouko, and the three of them split off to find other delegations to meet on a more official basis, while Taigen and Gohei similarly head out to meet with some of the lower-ranking samurai. You keep Wakaba and Minato with you, as 'bodyguards' with a bit more practice dealing with more ... unsavory types.

Once again, you almost completely manage to overlook Bayushi Yamato among his flashier relatives. He isn't wearing deliberately drab clothing or anything - indeed, in a place where everyone is dressed their best such as this, that would make him stand out - but the embroidery upon his robe is tasteful and subdued, and its palette runs much more to the black than the red aspect of his Clan colors. As you approach, Yamato breaks off a conversation that he is having with a young man in Imperial green. "Ah, Namazu-dono." He says as you approach. "Allow me to introduce Seppun Shougo-san."

Shougo is youthful, likely only a few months past his gempukku. Unlike most of the Seppun Guardsmen serving in the room, he is neither armed nor armored; it seems likely that he is present as a guest, rather than being on duty. He seems intensely uncomfortable to be speaking with a Clan Champion and looks at you gratefully for the chance to bow out of the conversation. "Ah, pleased to meet you Namazu-sama. Excuse me." He bows and backs away like a man fleeing a live viper, leaving you alone with the leader of the Scorpion.

Yamato's lips quirk in amusement. "Always a pleasure to meet the younger generation, don't you agree, Namazu-dono?"

You're not sure that you want to know. "Indeed. Are you well, Bayushi-dono?"

He smirks. "Well enough, Namazu-dono. And yourself?" He asks solicitously. "I know that it can be ... overwhelming to deal with so many of one's new responsibilities all at once. Why, even the well-wishers can become a burden."

You give him a wry, self-deprecating grin. "I had underestimated perhaps just how much that would be the case."

"I often find that in matters such as these, the best way to handle them is to simply take things one at a time." Yamato says.

Your attention sharpens. "Oh? How so?"

He nods. "Individuals are much simpler to handle than groups. After all, even an army is defeated one soldier at a time, is it not? But enough talk of such matters. It occurs to me, that there is someone with whom you could speak regarding the questions of ancestry that you posed to me the other day."

"The -" The bit about me being possibly part of your clan, those questions? "- ah, that is excellent news, Bayushi-dono. Who in particular do you suggest that I speak with?"

He smiles with a completely innocent expression. "Why, Kitsu Makoto-dono, of course. Who better to discuss matters of ancestry with than a member of the famed Kitsu Family?" His gaze lands on a tall woman with curly red hair, leaning on the wall and watching some of her cousins in the Shimizu indulge in diplomacy.

Your confusion clarifies. He is not giving you an opportunity to verify your ancestry - he is giving you a pretext, and perhaps a target. "Of course, Bayushi-dono. The thought should have occurred to me on my own, and I thank you for your wisdom." You raise your eyebrows. "It occurs to me that I truly know very few members of the kuge. Are there other people that you could recommend seeking out for conversation?"

"Hmm. Well, I can say that I have enjoyed the few conversations that I have had with Daidoji Mamoru," he says. "The Daidoji are after all the defenders and warriors of the Crane even as the Bayushi serve on the front lines of the forces of the Scorpion. In truth, I am unsurprised to see him here - he has after all served on the Wall with the Crab. He must be quite valuable to the Crane delegation." He points out a tall man with bleached hair, looking unhappy as he stands behind a member of the Doji family. "Also Togashi Touma, or perhaps Kitsuki Aoi? Both have been worthy rivals at times, having come across them in other courts. I recall some truly fascinating discussions on the nature of Truth." Two tattooed individuals, both in the same group of conversation around a samurai from the Matsu family.

You turn to Bayushi Yamato. "That is truly very helpful of you, Bayushi-dono." You cannot help but be suspicious - to have a lead dropped into your lap so easily is far more than you had hoped for. "Please, do not hesitate to let me know if I can be of equal assistance."

Yamato covers his mouth with a fan to laugh politely. "Nonsense, Namazu-dono. Why, you are practically the guest of honor." He looks down at the bottle of sake that you hold. "Ah, is that sake from the famed breweries of Zakyo Toshi?"

"It is indeed, Bayushi-dono. Please, accept this gift as a token of my regard." You go through the typical dance of acceptance and refusal, even as your mind races, trying to figure out the angle that he is playing. It seems at least that your earlier thoughts on this matter were correct; the Scorpion are as discomfited by the current alliance of three clans as the Crab. If only you could read him - even when Yamato's face shows amusement or curiosity, the feelings that you get from your gift regarding him are frustratingly blank.

"I humbly accept, Namazu-dono." He says, once the requisite two refusals have been achieved. "In return, please accept a small token of my esteem." You have a brief moment of panic, before you realize that he is merely handing you a book. In it is a collection of poems, seemingly themed around portents, omens, and revelations. You don't quite understand it, so after the usual two refusals and some more polite small talk, you tuck the book away for safekeeping. You will have to show it to Chouko later.

In the meantime, the period for free conversation is more than halfway through. You probably have time to speak with one more delegation before dinner. Daidoji Mamoru is sticking a bit too close to his Doji charge for you to have a frank conversation, but other than that you have many options.

[ ] The Kitsu Daimyo
[ ] The Phoenix
[ ] The Minor Clans
[ ] The Dragons
[ ] The Emperor
 
I'm leaning towards the Emperor. Since it's the first function of Namazu as a Clan, probably important to meet up with him.
 
Non-Mirumoto Dragons? I'd say go for them purely because it might be a weak point in the alliance that seems to dislike us, but at the same time the Dragon aren't often the best choice of ally in Rokugani Politics. They don't get involved... hardly ever really.
 
Non-Mirumoto Dragons? I'd say go for them purely because it might be a weak point in the alliance that seems to dislike us, but at the same time the Dragon aren't often the best choice of ally in Rokugani Politics. They don't get involved... hardly ever really.
Given that Togashi's still pulling the strings behind the scenes for the Dragon at this point there must be some reason they're getting involved here.
 
Given that Togashi's still pulling the strings behind the scenes for the Dragon at this point there must be some reason they're getting involved here.
Well, Storybookknight has previously stated that the Mirumoto are in charge of this delegation, because for some reason or other the Togashi Daimyo (who we the players know is really Togashi-no-Kami because of Canon) is in seclusion. The Mirumoto in general seem to be taking the lead in Dragon Politics for some reason that only the Dragon Kami likely knows. Were we further on in the timeline the Kitsuki would probably be dealing with this sort of thing as they're the Courtiers of the Dragon, but at present they're only recently founded, so the Mirumoto are in charge for whatever reason.

The presence of a Togashi and a Kitsuki here is interesting, and possibly useful as in theory both Family's have significant weight in a situation like this. I really REALLY don't think Togashi-no-Kami would stand with insulting the Crab like this. He understands well the threat of his fallen brothers forces, and the necessity of the Sons of Hida's eternal struggle. Given we've already seen the son of the Mirumoto Daimyo acting like an arrogant asshole type samurai (which is VERY odd for a Dragon samurai at Winter Court though not totally unheard of) it is likely that getting an in with the non-Mirumoto members of the Dragon Delegation could help.

Of the three Clans that are presently allied against the Crab, the Dragon are the ones I think the Catfish are most likely to get along with, if only because the Dragon are an interesting mix of pragmatic, realistic, and cryptic. Seriously, their magistrates in the Kitsuki use actual evidence techniques to find out what's happened as opposed to testimonials, and their classic Shugenja family, the Agasha, are actual chemists and all around scientists in a way that no one else in Rokugan other than maaaaybe the Asako are.

Of course, if the Catfish were trying to fracture the alliance (Which they REALLY shouldn't as getting involved in Great Clan affairs is a good way to end up REALLY screwed REALLY fast) turning the Lion against the others would probably be the easiest/best way. They're naturally opposed to both their present allies, the Crane are their traditional rivals and they're likely still smarting from the whole Dragonfly incident on top of their temperamental differences with the Dragon. No idea how we'd go about that, but I expect the Otomo are likely on it already.

As for options here, they all look interesting. I've no idea which is the best option, though as has been said going and chatting with Hantei-heika seems like a strong option now that it's not immediately looking like Tsubaki's just metaphorically running to Daddy to tattle.
 
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the Kuni create nothing artistic nor anything that does not serve a purpose for killing enemies...

So I was having a re-read of the latest pages and I noticed this, there are two things about it:
  1. I think you mean Kaiu not kuni.
  2. Saying they don't create anything artistic or non lethal is a bit wrong, as I recall reading somewhere, that on their downtime Kaiu engineers will build intricate clockwork models, as a bit of stress release . They are also prized as gifts in the rest of the empire.
 
So I was having a re-read of the latest pages and I noticed this, there are two things about it:
  1. I think you mean Kaiu not kuni.
  2. Saying they don't create anything artistic or non lethal is a bit wrong, as I recall reading somewhere, that on their downtime Kaiu engineers will build intricate clockwork models, as a bit of stress release . They are also prized as gifts in the rest of the empire.

Thanks, 1 is fixed. 2 is definitely a bit wrong, but that *is* their reputation.
 
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