- Location
- madison
the kind that ends up immortalized in song and story among the scorpions as a golden opportunity that comes but once a hundred generations.
[L5R] Minor Clan Quest
- Thread starter storybookknight
- Start date
the kind that ends up immortalized in song and story among the scorpions as a golden opportunity that comes but once a hundred generations.
- Location
- Leeds
Hmmm. On one hand Optimist Prones plan addresses the big concern that I have about Sirroccos i.e that the Scorpion have come into this court only wishing to maintain the status quo.
On the other hand what its aiming for is god awful 'give some areas as a trial'? Give them an inch and they'll take a mile on top, of that it would not be too hard for them to paint that argument as that even the Crabs allies believe they are incapable of defending the wall.
I was holding onto my vote in the hope that something would come up I like more, if this is it.
[X] Sirrocco
On the other hand what its aiming for is god awful 'give some areas as a trial'? Give them an inch and they'll take a mile on top, of that it would not be too hard for them to paint that argument as that even the Crabs allies believe they are incapable of defending the wall.
I was holding onto my vote in the hope that something would come up I like more, if this is it.
[X] Sirrocco
Theunderbolt
"Prepare for trouble..."
- Location
- USoA
[X] Sirrocco Solution
[X] Pursue a minor marriage alliance with the Scorpion (+1 Diplomacy, +1 Information)
[X] Pursue a minor marriage alliance with the Scorpion (+1 Diplomacy, +1 Information)
- Location
- Telmar
Most of the political heavy lifting in the empire is done by junior diplomats. This is a quote from Sword and Fan:
"Of course, one does not simply walk up to a delegation head and ask for a private meeting. When two groups wish to arrange private meetings for sincere negotiation, the delegation head will pass his thoughts and ideas on to his lieutenants, who will in turn select useful lesser agents and send them forth to make contact with the other side...
...At first, meetings between the clans go slowly as these low-level guest mingle with one another, making small political gains (and perhaps committing a few small errors), getting a general feel for what the other side is seeking. Eventually a meeting will be arranged between two of the more senior samurai, often with their lower-status minions attending as well."
In all honesty the most I would expect from the meeting as written is a slow sounding out of the agenda for the next meeting. When the Courtiers return to their clans I'd expect the leaders of the delegations to rule on the matters brought up and then a second meeting or meetings to either colaborate or extract themselves from negotiations without loss of face.
Fair point. My intent was to mitigate a loss rather then fold completely but I'm happy to change that bit of my vote.
Wade Garrett
Just trying to do the right thing
- Pronouns
- He/His/Him
[X] Sirrocco
[X] Pursue a minor marriage alliance with a Minor Clan
Would I be correct in assuming the Minor Clan option means our Clan will be acquiring some Mantis In-Laws (as opposed to Hare, Tortoise, Boar, Centipede, Fox, etc.)?
[X] Pursue a minor marriage alliance with a Minor Clan
Would I be correct in assuming the Minor Clan option means our Clan will be acquiring some Mantis In-Laws (as opposed to Hare, Tortoise, Boar, Centipede, Fox, etc.)?
- Location
- Leeds
In that case I'd probably change my vote.
I did iterate my preference earlier but just to repeat, I think we can reverse the situation and may be able to force some people to commit troops without taking command by playing up that its every Samurais duty to protect the emperor and then swapping onto the logistical angle that it would be impossible for any one of those clans to maintain command due to the distances reinforcements would have to march in order to defend against assaults. Hopefully this ought to let us trap them into not being able to keep from withdrawing the troops they would have used or else fail in their duty but would still leave the Crab in overall charge. Considering we have the Yaksuki on our side it ought to be easy enough to show that the Dragon and the Lion are on the wrong side of that middle mountain range to reasonably protect the empire.
I think we ought to be able to avert any arguments about stationing troops in Crab cities by claiming that they're attempting to remove the Crabs sovereignty or suggesting that they're demanding payment to protect the empire by taking the cities.
- Location
- Connecticut
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I live! My final project is done and I may actually have time to write again! Can I please have a vote count?
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Would you threadmark your last update? Makes it easier to use the tally program.
- Location
- Telmar
A Sirroco landslide with:
[x] Go for a three-pronged approach: Scorpion, Crab, and Otomo.
-[x] While in private conversation with your fiance, happen to mention what you have learned, and what you intend to do about it. We're not calling in the Emperor, but keeping him informed is always good, and we're sure the information will wander its way back to him.
-[x] Grab a moment with the Scorpion Champion, and imply that you have information you think pursuant to his interests. Invite him to send the scorpion of his choice to share a private supper with you in your quarters. Imply that it should be someone trustworthy and capable enough to be entrusted with serious business. If the Champion himself wishes to attend, he would of course fit the bill marvelously, but you recognize that he is a busy man, and would not wish to impose.
-[x] Have a remarkably similar conversation with the Yasuki diamyo, inviting him to send the Yasuki of his choice.
-[x] Once they both arrive, invite them in, and have them served in a table off in a relatively quiet corner. See to it that those of your family who are present are doing something moderately loud over on the other side of your quarters (an impromptu storytelling competition, a round of gambling with associated boasting and curses... whatever works. It should prevent us from being overheard without unduly harming our ability to hear one another.
-[x] Lay out the situation for them there (with the assistance of Wakaba). Do let them know that you've told your fiance as well. Ask them for suggestions on how to approach the situation with an eye to quashing the idea, damaging the Crane, breaking up the Crane alliance, and so forth. Try to manage the discussion to keep them working together productively. They do have some significant shared goals here, after all, and can achieve them much better working together than alone.
Here's a tally. Has to delete some old votes manually because the last update wasn't threadmarked.
Vote Tally : [L5R] Minor Clan Quest | Page 103 | Sufficient Velocity
##### NetTally 1.5.12
[x] Go for a three-pronged approach: Scorpion, Crab, and Otomo.
-[x] While in private conversation with your fiance, happen to mention what you have learned, and what you intend to do about it. We're not calling in the Emperor, but keeping him informed is always good, and we're sure the information will wander its way back to him.
-[x] Grab a moment with the Scorpion Champion, and imply that you have information you think pursuant to his interests. Invite him to send the scorpion of his choice to share a private supper with you in your quarters. Imply that it should be someone trustworthy and capable enough to be entrusted with serious business. If the Champion himself wishes to attend, he would of course fit the bill marvelously, but you recognize that he is a busy man, and would not wish to impose.
-[x] Have a remarkably similar conversation with the Yasuki diamyo, inviting him to send the Yasuki of his choice.
-[x] Once they both arrive, invite them in, and have them served in a table off in a relatively quiet corner. See to it that those of your family who are present are doing something moderately loud over on the other side of your quarters (an impromptu storytelling competition, a round of gambling with associated boasting and curses... whatever works. It should prevent us from being overheard without unduly harming our ability to hear one another.
-[x] Lay out the situation for them there (with the assistance of Wakaba). Do let them know that you've told your fiance as well. Ask them for suggestions on how to approach the situation with an eye to quashing the idea, damaging the Crane, breaking up the Crane alliance, and so forth. Try to manage the discussion to keep them working together productively. They do have some significant shared goals here, after all, and can achieve them much better working together than alone.
No. of Votes: 16
Sirrocco
Bastur2
Bugaboo
Dark as Silver
Dirtnap
Dovahsith
EtchedSteel
Jeboboid
Kiriel
Lost Star
noliar
Random Member
Terrastorm
Vanguard_D
Wade Garrett
wingstrike96
[X] Pursue a minor marriage alliance with the Minor Clans (+1 Trade, +1 Information)
No. of Votes: 10
avonphoenix
Bugaboo
Dirtnap
Dovahsith
Happerry
Jeboboid
noliar
Random Member
Spectrum
Terrastorm
[X] Pursue a minor marriage alliance with the Scorpion (+1 Diplomacy, +1 Information)
No. of Votes: 8
A Nation's Virtue
Bastur2
EtchedSteel
Kiriel
Theunderbolt
Vanguard_D
veekie
wingstrike96
[X] Take the information to the Crab. You have no desire to leave your allies in the dark on a matter which concerns them intimately, and they need to be prepared for such a move. On the other hand, there is a chance they could react rashly or violently to such news, and this is going to be a tricky diplomatic situation.
No. of Votes: 4
Deadly Snark
A Nation's Virtue
avonphoenix
No_Meaning
[X] Sirrocco Solution
No. of Votes: 2
veekie
Theunderbolt
[X] Pursue a minor marriage alliance with a Minor Clan
No. of Votes: 1
Wade Garrett
[x] Go for a three-pronged approach: Scorpion, Crab, and Otomo.
-[x] While in private conversation with your fiance, happen to mention what you have learned, and what you intend to do about it. We're not calling in the Emperor, but keeping him informed is always good, and we're sure the information will wander its way back to him.
-[x] Inform the Crab as soon as you can. Offer whatever political backup they need. Don't tell them you have spoken to your fiance.
-[x] If your fiance thinks the crab will loose the confrontation perhaps prepare to argue publicly in favour of only sections of the wall being turned over as a test.
-[x] Tell the Scorpion that you have informed the Crab.
No. of Votes: 1
Optimist Prone
[X]Talk to Crab. Touch base with Emperor. Decide further once more information is available.
No. of Votes: 1
jadecriminal
[X] Pursue marriages to recruit talent (+1 Production, +1 Diplomacy, +1 Information, +1 Learning, - 1 Unity, no allies)
No. of Votes: 1
The king Chad
[X] Take the information to the Crab.
No. of Votes: 1
Happerry
[X] Take the information to the Emperor. This is something that affects the Empire as a whole, and he needs to know about it. More than that, the Emperor can almost certainly deal with such an event... but if he handles the situation, you will be throwing away a priceless opportunity to win valuable allies for your Clan.
No. of Votes: 1
avonphoenix
[X] Pursue a minor marriage alliance with the Minor Clans (+1 Trade, +1 Information)
-[X]Encourage Koibu to go scorpion.
No. of Votes: 1
reignonyrparade
[X] Pursue a minor marriage alliance with the Minor Clans (+1 Trade, +1 Information)
- [X] Unicorn
No. of Votes: 1
No_Meaning
Total No. of Voters: 33
Winter 913 - Turn 2.16 - Defending The Wall
- Location
- Connecticut
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Thank you all for your patience. I fully intended to get back to the quest over the weekend, but my muse decided that it needed a few days off to recharge after spending about 14 days straight working on my term paper. We now return to your regularly scheduled programming.
[x] Go for a three-pronged approach: Scorpion, Crab, and Otomo.
-[x] While in private conversation with your fiance, happen to mention what you have learned, and what you intend to do about it. We're not calling in the Emperor, but keeping him informed is always good, and we're sure the information will wander its way back to him.
-[x] Grab a moment with the Scorpion Champion, and imply that you have information you think pursuant to his interests. Invite him to send the scorpion of his choice to share a private supper with you in your quarters. Imply that it should be someone trustworthy and capable enough to be entrusted with serious business. If the Champion himself wishes to attend, he would of course fit the bill marvelously, but you recognize that he is a busy man, and would not wish to impose.
-[x] Have a remarkably similar conversation with the Yasuki diamyo, inviting him to send the Yasuki of his choice.
-[x] Once they both arrive, invite them in, and have them served in a table off in a relatively quiet corner. See to it that those of your family who are present are doing something moderately loud over on the other side of your quarters (an impromptu storytelling competition, a round of gambling with associated boasting and curses... whatever works. It should prevent us from being overheard without unduly harming our ability to hear one another.
-[x] Lay out the situation for them there (with the assistance of Wakaba). Do let them know that you've told your fiance as well. Ask them for suggestions on how to approach the situation with an eye to quashing the idea, damaging the Crane, breaking up the Crane alliance, and so forth. Try to manage the discussion to keep them working together productively. They do have some significant shared goals here, after all, and can achieve them much better working together than alone.
-[x] While in private conversation with your fiance, happen to mention what you have learned, and what you intend to do about it. We're not calling in the Emperor, but keeping him informed is always good, and we're sure the information will wander its way back to him.
-[x] Grab a moment with the Scorpion Champion, and imply that you have information you think pursuant to his interests. Invite him to send the scorpion of his choice to share a private supper with you in your quarters. Imply that it should be someone trustworthy and capable enough to be entrusted with serious business. If the Champion himself wishes to attend, he would of course fit the bill marvelously, but you recognize that he is a busy man, and would not wish to impose.
-[x] Have a remarkably similar conversation with the Yasuki diamyo, inviting him to send the Yasuki of his choice.
-[x] Once they both arrive, invite them in, and have them served in a table off in a relatively quiet corner. See to it that those of your family who are present are doing something moderately loud over on the other side of your quarters (an impromptu storytelling competition, a round of gambling with associated boasting and curses... whatever works. It should prevent us from being overheard without unduly harming our ability to hear one another.
-[x] Lay out the situation for them there (with the assistance of Wakaba). Do let them know that you've told your fiance as well. Ask them for suggestions on how to approach the situation with an eye to quashing the idea, damaging the Crane, breaking up the Crane alliance, and so forth. Try to manage the discussion to keep them working together productively. They do have some significant shared goals here, after all, and can achieve them much better working together than alone.
"Truly, Namazu-dono, it is most unkind of you to invite a man whose offer of marriage you turned down to a private meeting with yourself and your husband." It is Bayushi Nimuro who speaks, his long, elegant fingers wrapped around his cup of tea. It is perhaps no surprise in retrospect that when you contacted the Champion of the Scorpion and asked him to send a trustworthy subordinate to meet with you that he would send someone with whom you have had dealings already. Nor, in the same vein, is it a surprise that Yasuki Nakura is present as a representative of the Daimyo. And when you spoke with Otomo Katsura about what you planned to discuss with the others, it is no surprise that he insisted upon attending... yet somehow, you find yourself caught flat-footed by the fact that you are sitting at a table with three men who offered you their hands in marriage, one of whose offers you accepted. For what it is worth, Nimuro seems more amused than anything by the coincidence. Surprisingly, Yasuki Nakura seems less sanguine; though the mask of his on is impeccable your Inner Gift reveals a surprising amount of consternation in his emotions.
You take a brief moment to meet Katsura's eyes, drawing some strength from your fiance's presence across the table. "I could say that it was unkind of you to jest so, Bayushi-dono, given that it was your own Champion who decided that it would be you who was sent tonight." You quirk an eyebrow at him, and he nods, accepting the admonishment. "Rest assured, I did not ask for your presence for any such petty purpose. Wakaba-san?" Your head spy bows and seats herself to your left. "Tell them what you told me. Leave nothing out."
And she does. Your three guests listen intently, and as you half-focus on Wakaba's story - you've heard it before, after all - you open your senses to your Inner Gift to attempt to discern what each of them feels. Nimuro's emotions are surprisingly cold and subdued; there is an occasional flicker of interest, or a mote of surprise, but other than that the feeling you get off of him is incredibly distant and dim. Bayushi Yamato was like that as well, you realize, and it makes you wonder if they have some nemuranai or blessing from the kami that prevents one's emotions from being known. Or whether you are telling him information of which he was already aware. Katsura's emotions are much clearer in contrast; surprise, consternation, consideration, but nothing like the man to his left.
Yasuki Nakura is a signal fire of rage. Despite his training, his nostrils flare, and you can see his knuckles go white in his lap from where his hands have clenched into fists. "I see. I thank you for bringing this to our attention, Namazu-dono. If the Crane are truly planning such... it would explain a great many of their actions of late." He shakes his head. "The fools. I am halfway tempted to simply let them try and fail." His eyes dart to Bayushi Nimuro. "Forgive me, Namazu-dono, but I must ask. I can understand very well why you have asked me here tonight. And that you have made certain that the Emperor will learn that honorless cowards are attempting to defy the edicts of the Emerald Throne does you credit." He inclines his head warily towards Nimuro. "Why is Bayushi-san also present? Unless you have heard that the Lion next intend to seize Ryoko Owari?"
Your eyes harden. "Bayushi-dono is present because it was the assistance of the Scorpion that made it possible for us to learn this information, Yasuki-dono. Without Bayushi Yamato's aid in identifying the members of this dissenting faction, we would never have been watching them in the first place."
"You knew?" Nakura stares at Bayushi Nimuro accusingly. "You knew of this?"
Unflappable, Nimuro shakes his head coolly. "We observed that a faction existed. Not what it wanted. If you do not trust our intentions, trust that the Scorpion would not have passed up the opportunity to win the favor of one of our largest trading partners by failing to inform you of such a fact had we known it."
Yasuki Nakura digests that for a few moments before nodding once, sharply. "Fine. You have our thanks for your assistance in this matter," he says almost dismissively.
Before the Crab samurai can do something like ask the representative of the Scorpion to leave so that you can discuss in private, you clear your throat. "Beyond that, Yasuki-dono, it was my hope to ask if the Scorpion would be willing to further assist in this matter. They surely have few reasons to see their traditional rivals among the Crane and Lion cooperating so well, and it is my hope that they may have some ideas to forestall this... attack upon the Crab."
Nimuro smiles, his sheer silken mask doing little to conceal the expression. "Such may indeed be possible, Namazu-san." He turns to Katsura and asks, "What is the will of the Emperor in this, Otomo-sama? The Scorpion are first and foremost his Underhand."
For the first, and possibly the only time, your fiance straightens and speaks with the voice of the Emperor. "I have not yet spoken with my uncle, but I can speak very well as to what he is likely to say. The Emperor would prefer that things stay as they are, without any public challenge to the decisions of Hantei the first or the loss of unprepared Samurai to the evils beyond the Wall."
Yasuki Nakura takes a slow, deep breath. As he releases it some of the heat of his anger goes with it, leaving his emotions smoldering like a banked bed of coals. "In that case, I welcome any help that the Emperor and the Scorpion care to assist with this matter. If the Crane, Lion, and Dragon attempt to hold the wall, they will fail. I have no concerns about that. However, if the Emperor wishes for us to save them from their leaders' own stupidity... then perhaps we should discuss how that may be accomplished."
Privately you aren't quite so certain that such an assemblage would fail, at least in the short term, but you certainly aren't about to say that out loud. "All right. So, from Wakaba-san's information, the dissenting faction is composed of six families. The Asahina, who have no desire to give up their life of peace. The Daidoji, who understand what the Wall is like and respect it. The Kitsu, who have borne the cost of the Akodo's aggression before. The Shimizu, who are concerned about being used as cannon fodder. The Togashi, who are used to leading and feel that the Mirumoto are taking them in a bad direction. And the Kitsuki, who simply feel the project is doomed to failure, but who are really too small to have much weight."
"And so there are seven families on the other side?" Nakura asks for clarification.
"Six, I would say," says Bayushi Nimuro. "The Doji, Kakita, Matsu, Ikoma, Mirumoto, and Agasha. I get the sense that the Akodo are busy with the Shimizu, and would probably prefer not to be distracted from that. But, even the Clans that are against participating will follow the orders of their Clan Champions, so if we're to prevent this challenge from happening, we're going to need to tip the balance a bit further than mere even odds."
"All right, let's start with the Crane." You say. "It sort of feels like Doji Ran is the lynchpin of this entire plot, the guiding intelligence behind it. What can we do to dissuade them?"
Yasuki Nakura scoffs. "That crochety old bitch is a tough cookie, that's for sure. I somehow doubt that we're going to get sufficiently lucky that she'd up and die of old age on us before she can make her move - and the Crane would probably accuse us of poison anyhow. No, she has the Doji sewn up tight. If we're going to be able to do anything with the Crane, my money is on the Kakita. Right now they're cooperating with the Matsu and the Mirumoto, and they can't be happy with that set of circumstances. Namazu-dono, if you were to request that the Crab host an iaijutsu tournament to prove that Kakita Maaya's victory over you was a fluke, we could arrange the tournament order such that the old rivalries have chances to flare up."
You raise an eyebrow. "Kakita Maaya's victory was no fluke. She's lethal as they come." You pause thoughtfully. "The idea has some merit, but I'm not convinced yet. What about you, Bayushi-dono, Otomo-dono? Any ideas?"
Katsura shakes his head, but Nimuro speaks up. "Don't underestimate the effectiveness of a simple rumor. Creating the perception that Doji Ran is losing her touch or that she has been stricken with illness with making the dissension of the Asahina and the Daidoji more obvious, and it could force her to spend time and energy on staying in control."
"It's a thought," says Nakura. "What about the Lion? The Matsu and the Ikoma, and possibly the Akodo. It would seem that the obvious solution would be to support the Shimizu in their war against the Akodo. Putting pressure directly on the Clan Champions would force them to keep from committing their legions."
"But," counters Nimuro, "the bulk of the Lion's troops have always come from the Matsu, and the Matsu appear to be the ones pushing for a target for the military of the Lion. Perhaps they could be convinced that the Dragon or the Crane would make better targets? Their rikugunshokan is a Matsu Masakawa..." he looks significantly at you, and the sandal drops.
"The one famous for raiding Shiro Ide?" You ask, reminded of Hatsuyuki's stories to you, and receive a solemn nod in response. "Perhaps he would speak to me as her student," you say thoughtfully. "Certainly I could come up with a pretext upon which to see him, and the castles of Rokugan do carry far more wealth and fame than war against the Shadowlands. What of the Ikoma?"
At this, Katsura speaks up, apparently happy to finally have been able to contribute. "We could set them against the Asako," he says excitedly. "The formation of the Tonbo was not long ago, and pitting their historians against the Loremasters of the Asako would only serve to bring up old memories, especially given the recent tensions created by Ikoma Watanuki-san."
"That could work, or may be worth pursuing... Which just leaves the Dragon." Says Yasuki Nakura thoughtfully. "The Agasha just want to prove that their mastery of Earth is superior to the Kuni, I think." He frowns thoughtfully. "It might be possible to come up with some circumstance where they could be bought off with knowledge, or else convinced of their inferiority in magics... difficult to say. As for the Mirumoto..." he trails off, and for a few seconds nobody speaks. It is evident that there appears to be few ideas on how to handle the Mirumoto. You could mention Mirumoto Kaien's infatuation with Suzume Hanae...
[ ] Yes.
[ ] Write-in: suggest how to use this knowledge.
[ ] No.
"Then, let's talk about the Families who are 'against'," says Bayushi Nimuro. "Some of them may be on the fence or willing to swing back to the Doji's plan if they see no way out of their situation. We should try to court at least a few of them to make sure they don't switch sides."
After some discussion and hashing out of the various advantages and disadvantages of various plans, you finally arrive at a plan. This plan is what will be taken to the leaders of the Crab, Scorpion, and Otomo, and could therefore change in unexpected ways based on their input, but you expect the plan to be something like the following:
Choose FOUR (one each for the Namazu, Crab, Scorpion, and Otomo):
[ ] Doji: Spread rumors that Doji Ran is feeble and ill.
[ ] Kakita: Set up an iaijutsu tournament to get the Matsu and Mirumoto mad at the Crane.
[ ] Asahina: make sure the Asahina stay in opposition to the plot (write-in for bonus)
[ ] Daidoji: make sure the Daidoji stay in opposition to the plot (write-in for bonus)
[ ] Akodo: support the Shimizu in their rebellion.
[ ] Ikoma: set the Ikoma against the Asako in an attempt to cause friction with the Dragon.
[ ] Matsu: attempt to convince Masakawa to attack his neighbors (more likely if neighbors already weakened by other actions)
[ ] Kitsu: make sure the Kitsu stay in opposition to the plot (write-in for bonus)
[ ] Shimizu: make sure the Shimizu stay in opposition to the plot (write-in for bonus)
[ ] Mirumoto: use Mirumoto Kaien in some way (to embarrass the Dragon, to marry the Crab to be near Suzume Hanae... write-in.)
[ ] Agasha: bribe with Kuni knowledge to remove their support from the Mirumoto.
[ ] Togashi: make sure the Togashi stay in opposition to the plot (write-in for bonus)
[ ] Kitsuki: make sure the Kitsuki stay in opposition to the plot (write-in for bonus)
[ ] Other: (Get help from Minor Clans, Unicorn, Phoenix, etc: Write-in.)
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Emerald Oracle
Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet the Force
- Location
- The Else
Alright, fancy update! Good to see it back again! I hope that end of term is treating you well @storybookknight!
I think I'll go down the list and try and analyze each option.
First the attack
[ ] Doji: Spread rumors that Doji Ran is feeble and ill.
This seems somewhat feasible, if less than perfect. The main problem with this is that the Crane are the Crane. They're the Ultimate Masters of the Court, and a rumor mongering scheme is sort of baby's first court technique. They're also very big on tradition and culture, so reducing Doji Ran's influence really could go either way, for good or for ill. I'm not sure how we might deal with the Doji more strongly, but the best way might be to
[ ] Kakita: Set up an iaijutsu tournament to get the Matsu and Mirumoto mad at the Crane)
Bad idea. Bad Bad Bad idea. The Crane came loaded for bear for this court, which means bringing their best duelists. This isn't always succesful, as their loss in the Heavy Weapons category goes, but challenging the Kakita in their area of specialty is almost always a bad idea. While exacerbating the rivalries between the Kakita and their traditional rivals could work, an Iai tournament is probably not the best way to go. Especially since the Mirumoto's focus is Niten, which is less focused on Single Strike duels. I dunno, it could work, but I don't want to torpedo the Maaya connection.
[ ] Asahina: make sure the Asahina stay in opposition to the plot (write-in for bonus)
[ ] Daidoji: make sure the Daidoji stay in opposition to the plot (write-in for bonus)
Neither of these is terribly difficult. A write-in for the Daidoji might be showing solidarity with them and building on existing bonds with the Crab while reminding them of the perils that all in the Conspiracy will face if it goes through. The Asahina on the other hand... maybe building bonds with the Kuni? The Kuni know a LOT of stuff, and the work of Asahina fetishists might be of interest as a means for the Crab to force project along and beyond the wall...
[ ] Akodo: support the Shimizu in their rebellion.
Hahahahahaha. No. The shall be no support for the Maho using demon worshippers. Making it clear that that's what they are might work to destabilize the Lion as a whole, but other than that no.
[ ] Ikoma: set the Ikoma against the Asako in an attempt to cause friction with the Dragon.
This... I don't think it would work too well. It's not a bad plan per se, but the main issue is that it's a bit indirect. Bringing up the whole Dragonfly debacle is a very good way to fracture the Dragon and Lion, especially since it's fairly recent relatively speaking, but setting the Ikoma on the Asako looks to me to be of debatable efficiency. Setting them on the Mirumoto might work a bit better since they're both martially inclined, and the Mirumoto, being Dragon, have enough of a respect for storytelling and more esoteric strategic pursuits that that might work.
[ ] Matsu: attempt to convince Masakawa to attack his neighbors (more likely if neighbors already weakened by other actions)
I like this plan. I'm not sure how it'd work, but I like the idea of weakening the Lion by making the idiots attack their neighbors.
[ ] Kitsu: make sure the Kitsu stay in opposition to the plot (write-in for bonus)
No idea here, something something ancestor worship?
[ ] Shimizu: make sure the Shimizu stay in opposition to the plot (write-in for bonus)
I want nothing to do with these guys. Meta Knowledge for the win!
[ ] Mirumoto: use Mirumoto Kaien in some way (to embarrass the Dragon, to marry the Crab to be near Suzume Hanae... write-in.)
Eh. Someone who's better skilled at the whole politicking thing than I should address this.
[ ] Agasha: bribe with Kuni knowledge to remove their support from the Mirumoto.
Might work. The main thing with the Agasha is that they're very Scientific about their whole approach to the Kami and magic in general. They COULD get along quite well with the Kuni if they were introduced diplomatically. There's a way to use that, but specific plans are escaping me at the moment.
[ ] Togashi: make sure the Togashi stay in opposition to the plot (write-in for bonus)
On the one hand nothing needs to be done to ensure Togashi opposition to this 'plan.' On the other hand, if they get invested enough in stopping it they might pull rank on the Mirumoto.
[ ] Kitsuki: make sure the Kitsuki stay in opposition to the plot (write-in for bonus)
I don't know how, but I want to leverage the Kitsuki Technique somehow. Getting them more involved and invested in fighting the 'Plan' means that our side can have access to ACTUAL FACTS about things. Kitsuki Investigators are awesome.
As a general note, for the Shugenja families that are involved, the Asahina, the Agasha, the Kitsu, and technically the Shimizu (though getting involved with them is a bad idea) we might leverage access to the Shinomen Mori. It's not the best plan, but it could be a way to build up a friendly network of Shugenja by giving them a place to operate to investigate it.
Also, if the non Mirumoto Dragon families are invested enough in stopping this they're MUCH more likely to fracture the whole mess than the Lion or the Crane. The Mirumoto are not the Lords of the Dragon, and they're operating way outside their bailiwick.
I think I'll go down the list and try and analyze each option.
First the attack
[ ] Doji: Spread rumors that Doji Ran is feeble and ill.
This seems somewhat feasible, if less than perfect. The main problem with this is that the Crane are the Crane. They're the Ultimate Masters of the Court, and a rumor mongering scheme is sort of baby's first court technique. They're also very big on tradition and culture, so reducing Doji Ran's influence really could go either way, for good or for ill. I'm not sure how we might deal with the Doji more strongly, but the best way might be to
[ ] Kakita: Set up an iaijutsu tournament to get the Matsu and Mirumoto mad at the Crane)
Bad idea. Bad Bad Bad idea. The Crane came loaded for bear for this court, which means bringing their best duelists. This isn't always succesful, as their loss in the Heavy Weapons category goes, but challenging the Kakita in their area of specialty is almost always a bad idea. While exacerbating the rivalries between the Kakita and their traditional rivals could work, an Iai tournament is probably not the best way to go. Especially since the Mirumoto's focus is Niten, which is less focused on Single Strike duels. I dunno, it could work, but I don't want to torpedo the Maaya connection.
[ ] Asahina: make sure the Asahina stay in opposition to the plot (write-in for bonus)
[ ] Daidoji: make sure the Daidoji stay in opposition to the plot (write-in for bonus)
Neither of these is terribly difficult. A write-in for the Daidoji might be showing solidarity with them and building on existing bonds with the Crab while reminding them of the perils that all in the Conspiracy will face if it goes through. The Asahina on the other hand... maybe building bonds with the Kuni? The Kuni know a LOT of stuff, and the work of Asahina fetishists might be of interest as a means for the Crab to force project along and beyond the wall...
[ ] Akodo: support the Shimizu in their rebellion.
Hahahahahaha. No. The shall be no support for the Maho using demon worshippers. Making it clear that that's what they are might work to destabilize the Lion as a whole, but other than that no.
[ ] Ikoma: set the Ikoma against the Asako in an attempt to cause friction with the Dragon.
This... I don't think it would work too well. It's not a bad plan per se, but the main issue is that it's a bit indirect. Bringing up the whole Dragonfly debacle is a very good way to fracture the Dragon and Lion, especially since it's fairly recent relatively speaking, but setting the Ikoma on the Asako looks to me to be of debatable efficiency. Setting them on the Mirumoto might work a bit better since they're both martially inclined, and the Mirumoto, being Dragon, have enough of a respect for storytelling and more esoteric strategic pursuits that that might work.
[ ] Matsu: attempt to convince Masakawa to attack his neighbors (more likely if neighbors already weakened by other actions)
I like this plan. I'm not sure how it'd work, but I like the idea of weakening the Lion by making the idiots attack their neighbors.
[ ] Kitsu: make sure the Kitsu stay in opposition to the plot (write-in for bonus)
No idea here, something something ancestor worship?
[ ] Shimizu: make sure the Shimizu stay in opposition to the plot (write-in for bonus)
I want nothing to do with these guys. Meta Knowledge for the win!
[ ] Mirumoto: use Mirumoto Kaien in some way (to embarrass the Dragon, to marry the Crab to be near Suzume Hanae... write-in.)
Eh. Someone who's better skilled at the whole politicking thing than I should address this.
[ ] Agasha: bribe with Kuni knowledge to remove their support from the Mirumoto.
Might work. The main thing with the Agasha is that they're very Scientific about their whole approach to the Kami and magic in general. They COULD get along quite well with the Kuni if they were introduced diplomatically. There's a way to use that, but specific plans are escaping me at the moment.
[ ] Togashi: make sure the Togashi stay in opposition to the plot (write-in for bonus)
On the one hand nothing needs to be done to ensure Togashi opposition to this 'plan.' On the other hand, if they get invested enough in stopping it they might pull rank on the Mirumoto.
[ ] Kitsuki: make sure the Kitsuki stay in opposition to the plot (write-in for bonus)
I don't know how, but I want to leverage the Kitsuki Technique somehow. Getting them more involved and invested in fighting the 'Plan' means that our side can have access to ACTUAL FACTS about things. Kitsuki Investigators are awesome.
As a general note, for the Shugenja families that are involved, the Asahina, the Agasha, the Kitsu, and technically the Shimizu (though getting involved with them is a bad idea) we might leverage access to the Shinomen Mori. It's not the best plan, but it could be a way to build up a friendly network of Shugenja by giving them a place to operate to investigate it.
Also, if the non Mirumoto Dragon families are invested enough in stopping this they're MUCH more likely to fracture the whole mess than the Lion or the Crane. The Mirumoto are not the Lords of the Dragon, and they're operating way outside their bailiwick.
Sirrocco
Pedantic
So, I like the idea of siccing Matsu-san on one of the others. Pulling that off should bring the entire edifice crashing down. Gien that, we'd want to pick someone for him to go after, weaken them, and then convince him.
...and I kind of don't like the Crane right now. Given that...
[x] Plan Squid:
- [Otomo] Kakita: Set up an iaijutsu tournament (to get the Matsu and Mirumoto mad at the Crane)
- [Scorpion] Doji: Spread rumors that Doji Ran is feeble and ill (to present an image of weakness there)
- [Namazu] Matsu: attempt to convince Masakawa to attack his neighbors (more likely if neighbors already weakened by other actions)
- [Crab] Agasha: bribe with Kuni knowledge to remove their support from the Mirumoto.
- It's near-trivial for the Imperial family to get an iajutsu tournament going. "Oh look - the Emperor implied that he might be pleased by an iajutsu tournament" pretty much makes it happen, given how much work the Otomo (Emperor!) and the Crane (Iajutsu!) have put into cultivating the courts over the generations. Also, the Otomo are Really Good at getting members of the Great Clans to bekind of pissed at one another. This makes the Matsu more willing to do Terrible Things to the Crane, and the Mirumoto more inclined to join in on the Dragon side rather than the Crane side.
- If we're spreading scurrilous rumors impugning a Crane, the Scorpion is the obvious choice in many, many ways. This weakens the Crane, and makes them a more tempting target.
- We have that in with the Matsu. We should use it. That part comes a bit later.
- Really, if you're going to bribe the Agasha with Kuni lore, then you ought to have the Kuni being the ones doing it. Having the Agasha decide that they aren't going to back this whole thing against the Crab (and that they might back this thing against the Crane, if there winds up being a thing against the Crane) puts a bit more swing into Mirumoto attitudes.
They could use some write-ins beyond that point, but I think it's a solid plan overall. The Agasha is kind of the also-ran here. If someone can find a way to actually weaken the Crane directly with that last Crab action, that would be even better, but having allies pull away helps at least a little.
...and I kind of don't like the Crane right now. Given that...
[x] Plan Squid:
- [Otomo] Kakita: Set up an iaijutsu tournament (to get the Matsu and Mirumoto mad at the Crane)
- [Scorpion] Doji: Spread rumors that Doji Ran is feeble and ill (to present an image of weakness there)
- [Namazu] Matsu: attempt to convince Masakawa to attack his neighbors (more likely if neighbors already weakened by other actions)
- [Crab] Agasha: bribe with Kuni knowledge to remove their support from the Mirumoto.
- It's near-trivial for the Imperial family to get an iajutsu tournament going. "Oh look - the Emperor implied that he might be pleased by an iajutsu tournament" pretty much makes it happen, given how much work the Otomo (Emperor!) and the Crane (Iajutsu!) have put into cultivating the courts over the generations. Also, the Otomo are Really Good at getting members of the Great Clans to bekind of pissed at one another. This makes the Matsu more willing to do Terrible Things to the Crane, and the Mirumoto more inclined to join in on the Dragon side rather than the Crane side.
- If we're spreading scurrilous rumors impugning a Crane, the Scorpion is the obvious choice in many, many ways. This weakens the Crane, and makes them a more tempting target.
- We have that in with the Matsu. We should use it. That part comes a bit later.
- Really, if you're going to bribe the Agasha with Kuni lore, then you ought to have the Kuni being the ones doing it. Having the Agasha decide that they aren't going to back this whole thing against the Crab (and that they might back this thing against the Crane, if there winds up being a thing against the Crane) puts a bit more swing into Mirumoto attitudes.
They could use some write-ins beyond that point, but I think it's a solid plan overall. The Agasha is kind of the also-ran here. If someone can find a way to actually weaken the Crane directly with that last Crab action, that would be even better, but having allies pull away helps at least a little.
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- Location
- Quezon City, Philippines
As much as I like cutthroat political scheming in L5R, I only possess mediocre skill at the art. I will defer to those more skilled in such practices, like the tiny squid.
My only problem with Plan Squid is the tournament since it puts adorable Maaya in the line of fire, but we can cover for that. I hope.
[x] Plan Squid
My only problem with Plan Squid is the tournament since it puts adorable Maaya in the line of fire, but we can cover for that. I hope.
[x] Plan Squid
So long as the Tournament isn't presented on the basis of her win being a fluke, and we're not visibly acting against the Crane, I don't see why it would.
If anything, I'd think Maaya would love to get in on a tournament - and demonstrating her competence buries any remaining shame for us losing to her even further.
There's a chance she could die, yeah, but she's a duelist. That'll always be true.
That's more than understandable!
First off, on the Mirumoto Kaien/Suzume Hanae question:
[X] No
We don't want to burn our potential bridges with the Sparrow here, unless we've got a really good reason to. Maybe if someone can come up with a good argument to get Hanae on-board and use her to bring Kaien around somehow, but I don't see any obvious openings.
Okay, so we need a really good plan here, I think. So I'm just going to throw out some hasty off-hand suggestions!. I'm thinking (before I start picking things), maybe aim for 2 strikes on the Crane and 1 each on the Lion and Dragon?
Otomo:
[ ] Ikoma: set the Ikoma against the Asako in an attempt to cause friction with the Dragon.
This is basically the Otomo's shtick, right? And kind of a two-for-one to hit both the Dragon and Lion.
Although:
A formal Iai tournament may not be the way to go, but the Otomo ought to be capable of getting a bunch of Mirumoto and Kakita talking shit about each other's sword techniques and looking for opportunities to have "friendly" duels. I don't think it would hurt us with Maaya since from her perspective this would just be "natural" rivalry and she'd probably be thrilled to have lots of opportunities to show off anyway.
What do folks think about this as an alternate Otomo action?
[ ] Write-in: Mirumoto: Set the Mirumoto against the Kakita, inflaming their old dueling rivalry.
Although with this and the rest of my options we'd be pretty much leaving the Lion alone.
Namazu:
[ ] Daidoji: make sure the Daidoji stay in opposition to the plot (write-in for bonus)
- [ ] Write-in: We've got a connection to a prominent Daidoji through Minato, leverage that to feel him out and try to get the feeling out there among the Daidoji through him that this plan is an insult to not only their Crab friends, but also to the Daidoji themselves by suggesting a bunch of Matsu and Mirumoto are just as tough as the Daidoji and could hang with them on the Wall.
This is kind of low-hanging fruit, but we are still just a Minor Clan; our ability to swing for the tougher/more lucrative targets is limited.
Scorpion:
[ ] Doji: Spread rumors that Doji Ran is feeble and ill.
This is the Scorpion shtick, and if anyone can out-Court the Doji they're it. Nimuro presumably would not suggest it if he thought it was futile - assuming the Scorpion are truly on board, that is, but if not we're screwed anyway. Hopefully this'll also leverage our action with the Daidoji to make the Crane look fractured and weak.
Crab:
[ ] Agasha: bribe with Kuni knowledge to remove their support from the Mirumoto.
Seems to be the obvious choice for them. Could fit nicely with the alternate Otomo action to really weaken the Mirumoto's position as Dragon leaders if they're picking fights with their nominal allies while their internal support slips away.
Sirrocco
Pedantic
The real cost of the tournament is that it's an Iajutsu tournament... which means that it's a way for the Crane to regain Glory. Maaya's not going to be in the line of fire at all. Indeed, it'll probably cement this as Best Winter Court Ever for her - she gets pulled out, finally gets to cut loose and get some recognition, and then suddenly there's a full-on Emperor-blessed Iajutsu tournament and no need to hold back.
I don't think we're going to manage to get "friendly duels" going without a tournament, though - the Matsu, Kakita, and Mirumoto are all deep in this plan together, and they're all pretty good at maintaining family discipline.
I don't think we're going to manage to get "friendly duels" going without a tournament, though - the Matsu, Kakita, and Mirumoto are all deep in this plan together, and they're all pretty good at maintaining family discipline.
Emerald Oracle
Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet the Force
- Location
- The Else
My main concern with the Iai tournament being bad for Maaya, was because the initial suggestion in the story post had it be the Namazu calling for the tournament on the grounds of Tsubaki's loss, which I thought would alienate Maaya, especially after the Catfish went out of their way to befriend her.
She's in the bosom of the Crane right now, and giving them a great big opening like that would let them make some hay internally.
Anyway, if the Otomo/Emperor call for it, then that problem is moot.
She's in the bosom of the Crane right now, and giving them a great big opening like that would let them make some hay internally.
Anyway, if the Otomo/Emperor call for it, then that problem is moot.
My concern with an Iai tournament is that it seems too likely to backfire. There's a big Iai tournament, the Crane inevitably win and are showered in Glory and the perception of martial prowess (even if iaijutsu isn't terribly relevant to holding the Wall) and leverage that to get what they want. Whatever damage is done to their alliances is counterbalanced by the opportunity to show up the Crab and look like a winner. I feel like a Iai tournament would only be helpful if we had a non-Crane Alliance contender with a good shot to win it. (And there's also risk to us personally of getting Crane-d into participating ourselves.)
Regarding getting the Matsu to attack their allies, I think if we're going to go that route it'd be advisable to work out a more concrete pitch than just, "hey, remember my Auntie Hatsuyuki?" That might get us in the door with Masakawa, but it's not going to be enough to to get them to switch sides. It's not like attacking the Crane is a foreign idea that would never occur to the Matsu, so there's presumably a reason they decided to go this route instead. I could be convinced otherwise, but I'm inclined to think this option is putting the cart before the horse. Sure, the Matsu will strike where they see an opportunity if we manage to make the Crane Alliance look weak enough that its failure seems likely. But if we manage to do that, we've already won.
Regarding getting the Matsu to attack their allies, I think if we're going to go that route it'd be advisable to work out a more concrete pitch than just, "hey, remember my Auntie Hatsuyuki?" That might get us in the door with Masakawa, but it's not going to be enough to to get them to switch sides. It's not like attacking the Crane is a foreign idea that would never occur to the Matsu, so there's presumably a reason they decided to go this route instead. I could be convinced otherwise, but I'm inclined to think this option is putting the cart before the horse. Sure, the Matsu will strike where they see an opportunity if we manage to make the Crane Alliance look weak enough that its failure seems likely. But if we manage to do that, we've already won.
Sirrocco
Pedantic
We don't have to make the alliance look weak enough that its failure seems likely. We just have to make the Crane look weak enough (and objectionable enough) that a Matsu hothead can be convinced that taking a chunk out of them is going to be more rewarding and more personally satisfying than trying to horn in on the Crab ownership of the Wall. That's a much lower bar.
You are correct that the iajutsu tournament is likely to be a net glory gain for the Crane. That's not its point. The point of it is to sell the Lion and the Matsu on certain ideas... that the Crane are gloryhounds, who they have reason to hate, that they pretend to martial mastery when all they really have is an almost absurd focus on iajutsu (unlike the Matsu and the Mirumoto, both of whom are true warriors - capable on the battlefield as well as in staged duels.
Actually, that's an excellent way to swing it. Don't have it start out as an iajutsu tournament. Instead, have the idea start to form as a kenjutsu tournament, get a few of the Matsu and/or Mirumoto interested in the idea, and then get the Crane (hungry for a chance to recover Glory) to turn it into Yet Another Damn Iajutsu Tournament - giving them reason to be a bit aggrieved to start with. *Then* you start laying down the classic Otomo "let's you and him fight" schtick (focusing on Matsu/Crane, but throwing in some Mirumoto/Crane on the side). Now, this is a pretty subtle move in some ways. If we were the ones trying to do it, I'd never suggest this. This is the Otomo area of specialty, though, and it's Winter Court with the Emperor. They probably have on hand at least two of the top five Rokugani masters of "lets you and him fight" right now (One's probably a scorpion, and the other two may have been assigned to other courts). Also, they've probably been watching the three-Clan alliance pretty closely this Court, with some concern. They're ready for this.
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Sirrocco
Pedantic
Right... and it's high risk/high reward for us, too. We're trying to get the Crane to bite on it as a way to regain a bunch of glory at a manageable cost - with the glory they gain, it'll be relatively easy to smooth things over with any disappointed kenjutsu specialists. They (hopefully) aren't realizing that there are forces in the court prepped and ready to turn it against them. We're trying to get the Dragon/Lion to see this as Yet Another Crane Being Obnoxious Thing, where they take something that was going to be cool, steal it and make it all about the Crane, and you know that as soon as they're done they're going to sic their diplomats on you to force you to pretend that you like it. If all goes well, the alliance will start to see some serious fractures, and the Lion and Dragon won't hang around to be placated. (They've heard it all before. They've heard it so... many... times....)
Now, if the Crane see it coming, there's ways they can slip the trap before it springs. If the Lion and the Dragon realize what's going on, it won't be nearly as effective. If they don't, though... well, the fact that it'll seem like something that the Crane set up in a deliberate (and obnoxious) attempt to glory-farm should cut down on the overall amount of glory they gain from it as well.
Also, if the whole thing works in our favor, then... well, they're the Crane. Diplomacy is supposed to be Their Thing. Having their Grand Aliiance collapse because of their own social blunders, resulting in one (perhaps both!) of their putative allies deciding to discard their carefully wrought plans and raid them instead? That's going to do some rather significant damage to their Glory, too.
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[x] Plan Squid
Maybe the senior Crane won't be drawn into spending political capital on switching formats. However, Maaya is young, enthusiastic and proud of her art - she can probably be led into suggesting/wishing aloud that a more general tournament become an iajutsu one - after all there has already been a general combat tourney and she didn't get to take part. Since our response to losing the duel has been to make her look good and since the Otomo are our allies running with her desire would look natural even though she's so junior.
It's not as obnoxious as a recognised courtier pulling the same stunt but it's still a Kakita getting her way at the expense of proper warriors.
If there is some visible friction between our opponents as a result of this then that helps the Scorpion with their rumour mongering. "Honestly, I'm surprised Doji Ran let this happen..."
[x]tiny squid
It's not as obnoxious as a recognised courtier pulling the same stunt but it's still a Kakita getting her way at the expense of proper warriors.
If there is some visible friction between our opponents as a result of this then that helps the Scorpion with their rumour mongering. "Honestly, I'm surprised Doji Ran let this happen..."
[x]tiny squid
- Pronouns
- She/Her
[x] Plan Squid