In canon, the latter was accomplished mostly because political manipulations put an ineffective person in the Champion's position, and there existing just a whole bunch of political hullabaloo overall. It's probably unlikely to happen in a time of peace and stasis, though we shall see.
I'm not sure ineffective is the right word, un-trusted maybe but effective when he wanted to be. iirc the Champion in 1170 when Iweko became Empress was a Scorpion who was an utter asshole who abused his position and she didn't trust. I'm also not sure how much the 'political hullabaloo' played into things, Iweko had just won the Celestial Tournament and was in a position of strength so it was probably more that she couldn't be challenged and less the political situation.
So I'd argue an Emperor could do it in a time of peace just as easily as her if he was in a strong enough position; no Gozoku bullshit etc.
Sometimes, but I like writing in the SV browser window for whatever reason... so while I usually copy & paste to a gdoc to avoid problems, I think I forgot to do so this time. C'est la vie.
I'm not sure ineffective is the right word, un-trusted maybe but effective when he wanted to be. iirc the Champion in 1170 when Iweko became Empress was a Scorpion who was an utter asshole who abused his position and she didn't trust. I'm also not sure how much the 'political hullabaloo' played into things, Iweko had just won the Celestial Tournament and was in a position of strength so it was probably more that she couldn't be challenged and less the political situation.
So I'd argue an Emperor could do it in a time of peace just as easily as her if he was in a strong enough position; no Gozoku bullshit etc.
Yasuki/Daidoji Hachi was very much a political pawn for most of his life, regardless of whether he wanted to be. And, not one to be inclined to hold onto power. Originally, the Emerald Champion was the Shogun & the Treasurer & The head of the Emerald Magistrates combined; for better or for worse Yasuki Hachi was one of the primary reasons for that power being splintered. Arguably it needed to be... but yeah, it was because of his weakness that it happened. His weakness was deliberate in a lot of cases because he was unhappy about being used as a pawn, but even so.
As far as a strong Emperor being able to change it during a time of peace ... well, maybe? Before the twelfth century though, the stasis of tradition was incredibly hard to break, meaning that such a change would be expensive in terms of political capital. He would probably have to have a heck of a reason to do such a thing.
As far as a strong Emperor being able to change it during a time of peace ... well, maybe? Before the twelfth century though, the stasis of tradition was incredibly hard to break, meaning that such a change would be expensive in terms of political capital. He would probably have to have a heck of a reason to do such a thing.
Well, clearly we just need to make sure that Tsubaki earns the enduring favor of the Thunder Dragon! The great Celestial Beast has probably already got one eye on her after her performance saving the Son of Heaven and then that Heroic Level Song she put on. Just need to solidify those gains! Clearly it's manageable!
Yasuki/Daidoji Hachi was very much a political pawn for most of his life, regardless of whether he wanted to be. And, not one to be inclined to hold onto power. Originally, the Emerald Champion was the Shogun & the Treasurer & The head of the Emerald Magistrates combined; for better or for worse Yasuki Hachi was one of the primary reasons for that power being splintered. Arguably it needed to be... but yeah, it was because of his weakness that it happened. His weakness was deliberate in a lot of cases because he was unhappy about being used as a pawn, but even so.
As far as a strong Emperor being able to change it during a time of peace ... well, maybe? Before the twelfth century though, the stasis of tradition was incredibly hard to break, meaning that such a change would be expensive in terms of political capital. He would probably have to have a heck of a reason to do such a thing.
Yea that's true but I was talking about Shosuro Jimen who was the Emerald Champion at the time when Iweko became Empress (he became the champion at least a year before she became Empress) and created the position of Imperial treasurer. What happened when his predecessor - Hachi - was the Emerald Champion probably made the idea seem more attractive but he wasn't actually the champion when the role was created.
And just as a random piece of trivia, there is something of a precedent for creating/destroying roles like this. There used to be an Imperial Trade Advisor but the role was abolished for unknown reasons.
Yea that's true but I was talking about Shosuro Jimen who was the Emerald Champion at the time when Iweko became Empress (he became the champion at least a year before she became Empress) and created the position of Imperial treasurer. What happened when his predecessor - Hachi - was the Emerald Champion probably made the idea seem more attractive but he wasn't actually the champion when the role was created.
That's true. I thought I had remembered reading something about it being because of Hachi's mismanagement that the position was reassigned... but maybe I was mistaken.
You really do have to pity Yasuki/Daidoji Hachi. He did as good a job as he possibly could, and he kept getting screwed around by everyone! His allies, his opponents, his superiors, his peers, EVERYONE!
I mean, hell, as far as I recall Toturi III full expected a full on war between the Crab and Crane as a result of his appointment, and was astounded that he managed to keep the Yasuki family nominally solid for as long as he did. Granted, Hantei Naseru/Toturi III was the LEAST of his siblings (imo), but still!
That's true. I thought I had remembered reading something about it being because of Hachi's mismanagement that the position was reassigned... but maybe I was mistaken.
I'm still reading through the various L5R books and resources so I'm afraid I can't say one way or the other!
It could have just been a theory someone had or it might be a bit of Lore I haven't reached yet. I'll keep an eye out for anything about it and post it in the thread if I find anything relevant.
Sorry about the recent spate of short posts, guys. Work has been difficult, and my concentration for writing has been shot. Hopefully this will make up for them somewhat.
[X] A private affair, where she can get to know the people of the Namazu.
You bow politely to Keiko and Maaya, one hand still keeping your handkerchief pressed firmly to your cheek. "If you'll excuse me, then, it seems that I have some preparations to make." You turn and head out of the room, heading for your guest chambers. As you walk through the halls and the adrenaline slowly dies down, your cheek begins to seriously sting.
"Tsubaki-dono!" Taigen hurries to catch up to you, looking at your bloody face with concern. "What was - what happened?" She asks. "I only caught the end of it."
You laugh, once. "Hearing -dono from you still feels a bit wrong, Taigen-san." You make a wry face, then immediately regret it as the motion pulls on your cut cheek. "It's a bit of complicated story," and one that I don't want to tell in an open hallway, "but the long and short of it is that I lost an exhibition duel to Kakita Maaya, and so I'm inviting her to a very fancy dinner where she will be the guest of honor."
Taigen looks at you, confused. "I don't see how .... Why did you invite a Crane to dinner right after they just got done messing with you?"
You roll your eyes, and pull her into a quiet room for a second. "Let me restate, then." You say in a hushed tone. "I, your Clan Champion, have just very publicly lost a duel. If I don't make it very clear that it's because Kakita-san is very, very talented, then every carrion crow samurai and their brother will be throwing insults at me so that they can beat me in a duel too."
Her eyes go wide with comprehension, and her face finally goes suitably grave. "Okay, yeah, that's a problem. What can I do to help?"
You bite your lip thoughtfully, a plan beginning to take shape in the back of your mind. "We need... two things. We need to keep Maaya-san happy with us, so that it doesn't look like we asked her to join us as a political maneuver -"
Taigen raises an eyebrow. "Even though that's what we're doing?"
"- and we need people who will gossip," you say bluntly, ignoring Taigen's snide comments. "Having the same interpretation of events come from multiple people will do a lot to shape opinion."
"... Hida Kaoru!" Taigen says, snapping her fingers. "She's here, and if we're looking for people who can't keep their mouth shut and have reputations for honesty..."
You smile - and once again, regret it as the act causes your cheek to move. Stepping back into the hallway, you nod at Taigen. "Okay. Go find her, see if she can make it. If you run into anyone else from the Catfish on the way, let them know to meet me in our quarters."
"Got it, boss!"
As you open the screen to your rooms, you note with relief that Yu and Chouko are both there, taking a break from the relentless grind of trade. You immediately send Yu out to purchase supplies for thirty people or so, have Chouko heal your wound, and get down to a furious spate of party planning. Messages are sent out to all of your clansmates, sending a message couched in as neutral words as possible that they need to get back to the rooms, and they need to invite other people to dinner tonight. Koibu is among the first of your advisers to return, and you almost immediately set him to penning invitations with his immaculate calligraphy, a task that he takes to with his usual finesse.
Slowly throughout the day the news trickles in. Otomo Katsura can attend; Koibu is bringing two guests, Yu and Chouko each are bringing one; Minato is out of the castle on a hunting trip and will not be returning until dinner. You had just about reconciled yourself to a smaller, more intimate dinner when Wakaba came back with the news that a full four of her friends, all well-connected members of the younger set, will be in attendance. Emboldened by this last welcome piece of information, you work to turn your quarters into someplace a little bit more comfortable for a large group of people to eat in. A heimin servant of the Yasuki brings you enough folding screens to section off an area of your room for all of your personal belongings to be stored, and you make sure to store the jade 'gifts' that you have received well out of the way so as not to discomfort any of your Crab guests.
Since you lack anything like the wall hangings that the Unicorn have, you do your best to make the focus of the room the table and food. You send Yu out to make sure that you have sufficient supplies, and he returns with a variety of foodstuffs and drinks in tow. Though the nearby streams and lakes are not plentiful, being so close to the mountains allows for boxes of snow and sawdust to be used to transport fish from nearby larger rivers and oceans. Yu brings back all of the required fixings for sushi, as well as plenty of rice, and many small fried or baked treats suitable for sharing among many hungry people. Of course, there is a small problem in that none of you is a particularly accomplished cook; and while it is not terribly difficult for you to call in a favor from the Yasuki and get a pair of heimin to help you out, you make a mental note to see about acquiring some talented heimin of your own for future such events.
As you finish your preparations, your guests begin to arrive. You are amused to see that Koibu apparently has not only the young lady of the Yasuki on his arm, whose name you learn is Yasuki Chie, but also has the attentions of a certain Shosuro Miyuki. The two of them appear to be rivals of one another, and you get the feeling that Koibu hadn't exactly planned on them both being able to show up - or maybe one of them is reading the other's mail, it's hard to say. On first impressions, you like both of them, though for different reasons - Chie is energetic and earthy, while Miyuki has a cool grace, and is apparently a very talented actress.
As Chouko and Yu have been spending so much time recently working out trade negotiations with the Minor Clans, both of them bring guests from those clans. Yu's friend is a cynical, somewhat morose Mantis named Hiroji who begins to relax and lighten up as he starts sipping on some sake, while Chouko has invited a fellow shugenja by the name of Kitsune Kouki. He and Chouko appear to have somewhat of a friendly rivalry going on, something about the benefits of paying attention to the natural world vs. the spiritual essences thereof and... that's about as far as you get before you have to leave them to it. If nothing else, he seems able to keep Chouko from being too spacy at your other guests by absorbing her attention.
Minato hurries in late, having obviously just bathed from his excursions outside of the castle. He apologizes for not having had time to speak to anyone, but you wave it off - this was obviously a spur-of-the-moment occasion. Luckily, Wakaba's friends more than make up for the perceived lack. A Lion, a Scorpion, a Unicorn, and a Phoenix come through the doors in what has to be the least likely assemblage of samurai that you have ever heard of. Apparently Ikoma Tatsuki, Yogo Namio, Moto Rokuro, and Shiba Shinpei are all junior members of the Emerald Magistrates, and gather as friendly rivals whenever they can. Somehow Wakaba has slid into place with these promising young samurai quite easily, possibly by applying her position as your chief Clan Magistrate. More to the point, all four of them are convivial sorts, well used to the necessities of being polite and friendly with members of other clans. Then Hida Kaoru, Hida Aoba, Hiruma Tamayo and Hiruma Fujita arrive, and the place becomes practically packed with large, boisterous, enthusiastic samurai.
Behind them is Otomo Katsura, and as he comes in he seemingly cannot help but give you a shy smile; despite your position as a host, his expression is so charming that you cannot help but give him a secret smile in return. You can feel your heart beating faster just from that small moment - you're no pure maiden, but it was not long ago when all you could afford was a threadbare kimono, when you used your hair to hide your face rather than accent it, and people hid looks of disgust around you instead of smiles. You take a moment to compose yourself as you introduce your fiance to your clansmates; you have no desire to be caught up in bad memories of the past. Koibu seems to notice your slight reticence, and quickly takes charge of Katsura, making the introductions for you while you play the more impartial host. Your defeat this morning and the frenzy of preparations this afternoon have left you with no time to compose yourself and regain your center, but you push down the shadows of the past with practiced ease regardless.
Finally the guest of honor arrives, and you make it a special point to greet her and present her to the assembled party. Kakita Maaya has dressed much more formally than she did this afternoon, and looks almost like a precious doll. A deadly, deadly doll. For all of her innocent charm, you still vividly remember just how fast Maaya was. Despite your lingering feelings of resentment, you welcome her warmly and sincerely, and she blushes prettily as she is congratulated and praised by the various guests.
The night passes in a pleasant fashion, both for you and all of your guests. While Hatsuyuki might not have been able to train you on the various games and sophisticated stratagems of court, she definitely taught you about how to make a guest comfortable, and you employ all of those abilities skillfully. Despite your initial dark mood, you find yourself having a surprising amount of fun. You wind up performing a call-and-response oratory with Ikoma Tatsuki, sing in harmony with Kitsune Kouki's strong tenor, and even steal a few moments of quiet conversation with Otomo Katsura. Nor are you the only one so entertained, as you see Koibu and Hiroji having a few drinks together while Yasuki Chie and Shosuro Miyuki are distracted by a riddle-game of Wakaba's, and see Moto Rokuro working together with Hida Kaoru and still being unable to overcome Minato in an arm-wrestling contest.
As the night begins to wind to a close, Kakita Maaya gets your attention and steps into a corner with you. Her cheeks are flushed from a small amount of sake, and her eyes sparkle with enthusiasm and fun. "Thank you so much for inviting me, Namazu-sama. I've never... I've never met so many samurai from other clans all at once before. Usually I eat with the other Crane, and well..." she blushes a little bit more, and shakes her head. "Um... Namazu-sama, would you... would you be interested in, in maybe sparring together sometime? Um, I'd be happy to show you a few tips on Iaijutsu, and... maybe you could show me some kenjutsu?"
What do you say?
[ ] Write-in
Is there anyone who you would like to speak to before the party ends?
[ ] Write-in
Yesssssss, the Plan Continues! Also, HA and HA again! Foolish Crane have massively weakened their hilariously OP Duelist to any kind of genuine positive emotion!
Also, the idea of becoming a friendly sparring partner with a legitimate Iai Prodigy is Most Bueno, even if, like most genii, she isn't the best at teaching what comes so naturally to her.
As the night begins to wind to a close, Kakita Maaya gets your attention and steps into a corner with you. Her cheeks are flushed from a small amount of sake, and her eyes sparkle with enthusiasm and fun. "Thank you so much for inviting me, Namazu-sama. I've never... I've never met so many samurai from other clans all at once before. Usually I eat with the other Crane, and well..." she blushes a little bit more, and shakes her head. "Um... Namazu-sama, would you... would you be interested in, in maybe sparring together sometime? Um, I'd be happy to show you a few tips on Iaijutsu, and... maybe you could show me some kenjutsu?"
technically what we are doing here is recovery rather than counter attack. Hell if anything we are giving them a handy start point for her sudden and brilliant career as a master duelist.
she's no longer useful as a hidden blade, but a lauded duling prodigy has its own uses. The only thing they might not like about this is that by minimizing the amount of damage we took we make them expending mays first public dule on us not worth it.
Before people start jumping on Plan Maaya Waifu, it's worth noting that unless we want Maayu to be the inspiration of a new tragedy our geisha can perform, as I understand it we'd need to get her lord to approve the marriage. Which means that we would need to start playing nice with the Crane.
On the voting...
I want to take Maayu up on her offer, but my instincts are screaming that this needs to be handled carefully. While it's clearly a genuine offer from Maayu, it'd be fairly easy for other Crane to spin it badly for us ("the Catfish Champion taking instruction from a child!") I don't have any particularly clever ideas to mitigate that possibility, though, and if they did act so blatantly it would probably alienate Maayu and drive her closer to us. So for now I'll just toss in:
What do you say?
[X] Accept.
and let someone else try to come up with actual dialog or more clever manuevers.
On the easier vote:
Is there anyone who you would like to speak to before the party ends?
[X] Try to steal some time to talk with Katsura, though not about anything important, just continuing to get to know our future husband better.
-[X] Chat some more with Yasuki Chie and Shosuro Miyuki. Certainly not trying to get ammunition for teasing Koibu later. Absolutely not. Okay, yes, we're totally going to tease Koibu later.
So... various goals...
- We should say yes.
- We want to get her to like us personally.
- We want to avoid giving too much influence/Glory back to the Crane Clan itself. We *also* want to avoid leaving ourselves all that open to further attack. Given that the Crane absolutely will try to use her against us, that gets potentially tricky.
...or, wait... no....
It's not so much "say yes" as "respond favorably". She's doing this as a clumsy attempt to establish a connection. Whatever influences she might have behind the scenes from other Crane, she liked being praised (we should do more of that - her Clan has left her weak to it), she likes what she's getting here, and she doesn't want to let go of it. Her problem, though, is that she's the Kakita who had all of her social swapped out for more swording, and she basically doesn't know how to connect with people except in a sword-related context. She's basically trying to establish a connection on every level that she knows how. Sparring? Iajutsu? Kenjutsu? What else is there?
...and with that, I've run out of insight. Perhaps someone else could figure out how to work with it right?
I do think that accepting iajutsu instruction beyond the "a few tips from a fellow warrior" level would be a significant political blunder, but that *is* the level she's offering, and that level should be reasonably safe.
For the other, I like Plan Anowack
[X] Try to steal some time to talk with Katsura, though not about anything important, just continuing to get to know our future husband better.
-[X] Chat some more with Yasuki Chie and Shosuro Miyuki. Certainly not trying to get ammunition for teasing Koibu later. Absolutely not. Okay, yes, we're totally going to tease Koibu later.
I might suggest that we spend some time talking with Maaya if possible, on top of Katsura and Koibu's ladies I mean. Just solidifying that "Hey, the Catfish Clan Champion is AWESOME and I really like her," in Maaya's mind would be very helpful in the long run I think.
It's not so much "say yes" as "respond favorably". She's doing this as a clumsy attempt to establish a connection. Whatever influences she might have behind the scenes from other Crane, she liked being praised (we should do more of that - her Clan has left her weak to it), she likes what she's getting here, and she doesn't want to let go of it. Her problem, though, is that she's the Kakita who had all of her social swapped out for more swording, and she basically doesn't know how to connect with people except in a sword-related context. She's basically trying to establish a connection on every level that she knows how. Sparring? Iajutsu? Kenjutsu? What else is there?
...and with that, I've run out of insight. Perhaps someone else could figure out how to work with it right?
She's probably looking for... friendship? acceptance? validation? , since her lack of social skills have probably left her so isolated. She may be praised by her her superiors for her skill with a blade, but her peers most likely hate/disdain/loathe/envy Maaya for her skill, resulting in an ongoing whispers/hazing/bullying campaign. She shuts herself away from others, focusing on her swording skills, creating a vicious cycle that would either most likely result in misery and probably tragedy.
Then we come in, and provide honest compliment and positive attention. Little Maaya doesn't know how to handle genuine praise, and her social awkwardness leaves defaulting to her best skill, swording or talking about swording. This is probably little her attempt at trying to create establish a friendship, her trying to find some sort of happiness and kinship from a source which doesn't demand strict adherence to appearances.
The Crane's pursuit of excellence and perfection is often times a blade without a hilt. And we'll probably be exploiting that by taking said blade and making a hilt for our own use.
Or I'm just seeing things that isn't really there.
You bite your lip thoughtfully, a plan beginning to take shape in the back of your mind. "We need... two things. We need to keep Maaya-san happy with us, so that it doesn't look like we asked her to join us as a political maneuver -"
Taigen raises an eyebrow. "Even though that's what we're doing?"
"- and we need people who will gossip," you say bluntly, ignoring Taigen's snide comments. "Having the same interpretation of events come from multiple people will do a lot to shape opinion."
