Remove ads

[L5R] Minor Clan Quest

Reader mode
veekie said:
Wow. They're determined to make us waste the jade huh?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

More like it's win-win for them. If you do put it away and never use it, they can call you out on not appreciating art, and on letting great treasures gather dust on the shelves while insulting your visitors by offering them mere clay.
 
Last edited:
We'll have to make a gallery in our new castle, with a nook waaaaay in the back that is exquisitely decorated for it to sit on. Proudly on display where no one will ever bother to look at it, just like the Crane are whenever things actually need to get done.
 
storybookknight said:
More like it's win-win for them. If you do put it away and never use it, they can call you out on not appreciating art, and on letting great treasures gather dust on the shelves while insulting your visitors by offering them mere clay.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
So basically standard Crane stuff.

Going to have to find some way to give the Crab SOMETHING in exchange, but I don't know how, and I'd bet neither does the Crab. They specialize in beating evil's face in, not playing politics.
 
veekie said:
Going to have to find some way to give the Crab SOMETHING in exchange, but I don't know how, and I'd bet neither does the Crab. They specialize in beating evil's face in, not playing politics.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Could flip those insulting gifts around and give them a kid to foster? That's a kind of long term comeback though...
 
[X] Try to find the Crab, so that you can smooth things over and maybe plan some kind of counterattack.
-[X] Namely to arange an improptu performance. Pick a song whose topic is the unity of Rokugan in the face of outside threats, maybe even a Crab song to honor our hosts, and how destructive polite words can be. Then point out the Crane representative and note that perhaps they did not know that song quite as well as they perhaps should, no?
--[X] It may even entertain Hantei-heika as well.

EDIT: Let's use our awarness 6, Preform(Song) 6, +Voice to beat the Crane at the art of being cultured. While singing about the unity through a Crab song. Seems legit, no? Not sure if we should spend a Void point on top of that. That would be a total of 10k8 no void, and 10k10 with Void. How about some beauty for the Court of the Emperor?

EDIT2: On second though, better to be a solo. Less moving parts, and less chance of sabotage. Our perfomance alone should be enough.
 
Last edited:
storybookknight said:
The Crane are the Greatest of Clans. From them come the Empire's greatest villains, and also their greatest of heroes. They're frequently the only Clan that is capable of getting enemies to reconcile - take a look at the Dragon and Lion cooperating! They're some of the greatest artists in Rokugan - that teapot is amazingly gorgeous.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

The problem here is that the Crane are considered the Greatest of Clans because they have OWNED the Courts since the days of the Second Emperor and determined what, exactly, greatness for a Clan entailed. They're also (in)directly responsible for the continued existence of the Shadowlands, because of their constant rivalry with the Crab which started ruing the Second Hantei's reign. Hantei Genji did a lot to solidify Rokugan after the First War, but a lot of what he did had some very unfortunate long term repercussions.

Also, two things. First, the Dragon and the Lion cooperating isn't so impressive as the Dragon taking part in the politics of the Empire as a whole is, and that seems to be happening because the Mirumoto are getting too big for their britches while Togashi-no-Kami is busy elsewhere. Second, while INDIVIDUAL Crane can be remarkable heroes or villains, and the Crane as a whole produce remarkable diplomats and artisans, the Clan as a whole tend towards spectacular assholishness. They get their shit wrecked for good reason whenever the Empire devolves into Civil War. EVERYONE more or less hates their guts and takes GREAT joy in kicking twelve kinds of crap out of them when they have the excuse.
 
I'd contest that the Crane are the reason behind the Shadowlands continued existence.
The portal to hell that no one knows how to close is the greater reason. Even at their peak pre Kaiu Wall, the Crab never pushed beyond the River of No Return. Indeed they named it that because they can never go further than that.

Anyways even though everyone seems to hate them in this quest, I still like the Crane and while we've been caught up in their game, I don't resent them for it. That's like resenting the Scorpion for their sudden yet inevitable betrayal.
 
Mostly...I'd advise against trying to go head on with the Crane on social. We're good, but they're good, connected AND rich.

We'll take their gift and make it useful, then see about keeping ties with our friends the old fashioned way, by doing our best to actually support them. They know very well how hard it is to avoid looking stupid when a Crane is yanking you.
 
Last edited:
primemountain said:
[X] Try to find the Crab, so that you can smooth things over and maybe plan some kind of counterattack.
-[X] Namely to arange an improptu performance. Pick a song whose topic is the unity of Rokugan in the face of outside threats, maybe even a Crab song to honor our hosts, and how destructive polite words can be. Then point out the Crane representative and note that perhaps they did not know that song quite as well as they perhaps should, no?
--[X] It may even entertain Hantei-heika as well.

EDIT: Let's use our awarness 6, Preform(Song) 6, +Voice to beat the Crane at the art of being cultured. While singing about the unity through a Crab song. Seems legit, no? Not sure if we should spend a Void point on top of that. That would be a total of 10k8 no void, and 10k10 with Void. How about some beauty for the Court of the Emperor?

EDIT2: On second though, better to be a solo. Less moving parts, and less chance of sabotage. Our perfomance alone should be enough.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

It's 10k10 no Void because of Voice. Void gives 10k10 + 6. However, this is not the right time to use that (says Prof. Oak) - right now everyone is having conversations & such, you'll have much better luck at a later date.
 
@veekie : Singing would not be going head to head. It would merely be biting back as well as advertising that we have skills they can appreaciate. Make a point they should not attack us frivolously, defend the Crab and get closer to the Crane, all in one. Hell, if we make a sufficiently impressive display, we might attract artists to our lands and found a school for Singers.

PS: Aaannnd GM post. Ok then. But we should definitly arange with the Crab to showcase our Singing at a later date. We are good at it, we should flaunt it.

EDIT: Or would that be with the Emperor, since this is his court after all?
 
Emerald Oracle said:
The problem here is that the Crane are considered the Greatest of Clans because they have OWNED the Courts since the days of the Second Emperor and determined what, exactly, greatness for a Clan entailed. They're also (in)directly responsible for the continued existence of the Shadowlands, because of their constant rivalry with the Crab which started ruing the Second Hantei's reign. Hantei Genji did a lot to solidify Rokugan after the First War, but a lot of what he did had some very unfortunate long term repercussions.

Also, two things. First, the Dragon and the Lion cooperating isn't so impressive as the Dragon taking part in the politics of the Empire as a whole is, and that seems to be happening because the Mirumoto are getting too big for their britches while Togashi-no-Kami is busy elsewhere. Second, while INDIVIDUAL Crane can be remarkable heroes or villains, and the Crane as a whole produce remarkable diplomats and artisans, the Clan as a whole tend towards spectacular assholishness. They get their shit wrecked for good reason whenever the Empire devolves into Civil War. EVERYONE more or less hates their guts and takes GREAT joy in kicking twelve kinds of crap out of them when they have the excuse.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

The Dragon and the Lion cooperating is actually pretty impressive given the date. The Dragonfly were founded about 200 years ago, and the two Great Clans have been at odds ever since. (And this is on top of their enmity as the Clans that love Shinsei most & least.)
 
gman391 said:
The portal to hell that no one knows how to close is the greater reason. Even at their peak pre Kaiu Wall, the Crab never pushed beyond the River of No Return. Indeed they named it that because they can never go further than that.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
The main reason I say that the Crane have some responsibility for the continued existence of the Shadowlands is because how they caused the topic to be treated. The Crane had a great deal of control over how the top tiers of Rokugan treated various subjects. The Shadowlands, the Taint, and everything to do with Jigoku became a taboo subject as a result of their actions.

Granted, they may not have intended this, but they the Crane HAVE controlled the Courts for centuries and they HAVE had a strong disdain and dislike for the Crab almost since their foundation. Things only got worse during the reign of the Fifth Hantei, when the First Yasuki War happened.

Basically, rather than make Fighting the Shadowlands something that everyone in Rokugan should openly honor and do, the Crane made sure (intentionally or not) that the Crab's war against the Shadowlands is seen as an unfit topic for polite conversation, and almost no one goes and helps them. Granted, there are many other factors at work here, the horror of fighting the forces of Jigoku, the need for their to be more to life THAN fighting Jikogu, and on and on, but the fact remains that the Crane treatment of the Crab is... distinctly dishonorable from an objective stand point, and is never seen as such by anyone.

That's all my personal take on things though. I can't deny that the Crane DO produce great heroes (and villains), or that they can make breathtaking art. It's just that nine times out of ten all of that serves only the greater aggrandizement of the Crane. That's a problem with most Clans, but the Crane ... eh they just rub a lot of the fandom the wrong way, probably because of differences in cultural values.
 
Last edited:
How about we insult the Mirumoto in some fashion, since they're lap-dogging the Crane here? They're probably a safer courtly target than either the Lion or the Crane, right?
 
[X] Seek out the Scorpion, perhaps Bayushi Yamato will be able to offer advice or information.

We have good excuse to talk to them, considering they're a neighboring clan and we have a gift to give to them. And we would end up getting caught in some Scorpion schemes just by proximity, so we could make an effort to aim our involvement in them to our benefit. Those gifts of theirs are valuable and would have taken some time to retrieve, so I don't think they had any intention of letting up on us anytime soon. Might as well see if we can eventually even the score.
 
primemountain said:
@veekie : Singing would not be going head to head. It would merely be biting back as well as advertising that we have skills they can appreaciate. Make a point they should not attack us frivolously, defend the Crab and get closer to the Crane, all in one. Hell, if we make a sufficiently impressive display, we might attract artists to our lands and found a school for Singers.

PS: Aaannnd GM post. Ok then. But we should definitly arange with the Crab to showcase our Singing at a later date. We are good at it, we should flaunt it.

EDIT: Or would that be with the Emperor, since this is his court after all?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Simpler.

Have patience

Wait for the formal court to be over, the mingling/less formal phase to start, and we can sing a song then.
 
Emerald Oracle said:
The main reason I say that the Crane have some responsibility for the continued existence of the Shadowlands is because how they caused the topic to be treated. The Crane had a great deal of control over how the top tiers of Rokugan treated various subjects. The Shadowlands, the Taint, and everything to do with Jigoku became a taboo subject as a result of their actions.

Granted, they may not have intended this, but they the Crane HAVE controlled the Courts for centuries and they HAVE had a strong disdain and dislike for the Crab almost since their foundation. Things only got worse during the reign of the Fifth Hantei, when the First Yasuki War happened.

Basically, rather than make Fighting the Shadowlands something that everyone in Rokugan should openly honor and do, the Crane made sure (intentionally or not) that the Crab's war against the Shadowlands is seen as an unfit topic for polite conversation, and almost no one goes and helps them. Granted, there are many other factors at work here, the horror of fighting the forces of Jigoku, the need for their to be more to life THAN fighting Jikogu, and on and on, but the fact remains that the Crane treatment of the Crab is... distinctly dishonorable from an objective stand point, and is never seen as such by anyone.

That's all my personal take on things though. I can't deny that the Crane DO produce great heroes (and villains), or that they can make breathtaking art. It's just that nine times out of ten all of that serves only the greater aggrandizement of the Crane. That's a problem with most Clans, but the Crane ... eh they just rub a lot of the fandom the wrong way, probably because of differences in cultural values.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

How much of that is because they're Crane instead of it just being a result of being human though?
There's a tendency to see the Eternal War against the South as perpetually on the verge of failing. That's because we have meta knowledge that it will fail and usually while we're playing because that makes an interesting story.

But in the history of Rokugan, there's not actually that much support for this. For centuries at a time the Crab have succeeded monumentally well at their appointed task. There are two notable failures that being of the Maw, and the Clan Wars of the twelfth century.

Two times in over a thousand years of history that the Crab failed, and even then the rest of Rokugan rallied in short order to defeat the threat and push things back. It's not until the Destroyer War where we ever have a crisis that isn't solvable by the Crab working in conjunction with others when needed.

So for most of the history of everyone else but the Crab
Their default interaction of the Crab is
"Hey wanna talk about fighting Satan when talking about him could very well make him take notice of you?"
"No? Well fine be that way you dick. Now give me stuff"

I'm not saying that the Crane are blameless in their isolation of the Crab. I'm saying they are reasonable. If you always go over to a guy's house steal his stuff and call him a giant pussy, don't be surprised when he stops being your friend you know?
 
[X] Go speak to the other Minor Clans; it'd let you lay low for a bit, and they are your southern neighbors.

well that crane attack was about as brutal and effective as I figured it would be. Though notice how they focused on dissing our service to the emperor and subtly insulting the crab? That really was not about us, that was about minimizing the aid we could provide to crab by hitting our credibility and sowing some seeds of discord between us. If we don't immediately run to the crab the crane will probably leave it at that for now.

as for how the crab are going to react, they know the crane. Hell they were probably waiting for the crane to take a shot at us, so they are probably going to be a bit more understanding about the barbs the gift throws there way than is the norm for rokugan.
 
Droman said:
How about we insult the Mirumoto in some fashion, since they're lap-dogging the Crane here? They're probably a safer courtly target than either the Lion or the Crane, right?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Or...

We don't deliberately get into dick measuring contests with any of the Great Clans because we'll lose. To any of them. We make nice where we can, take our licks when we have to, and hopefully come out ahead of where we started.

And then we go home and slap huge tariffs on anything the Crane, Lion, or Dragon try to ship through our lands.:V
 
@gman391 brings up an important point about the Crane and the relations the Crab have with everyone else. The Crab, like every Clan, has its own failings. In short, they're complete assholes to almost everyone else. They've produced some of the greatest heroes the Empire has ever known, sure, and perform a valuable service... but that doesn't change the fact that they're constantly demanding stuff in good years or bad years and usually calling everyone a bunch of weaklings in the process.

Do the Crab have good reason for feeling the way they do? Well, certainly! They really do need constant resources and it only makes sense that the value of etiquette might diminish when you're fighting every day for centuries. The Crab are pretty understandable in their frustration with the other Clans. However, the Crane also have good reason for disliking them. The Crab have belittled and mocked them almost since the Empire started, and then the Yasuki defected to them because they didn't like the orders they were given by their rightful superiors. That's not a minor thing, but rather a big fucking problem that makes complete sense as a point of contention even hundreds of years later.

Now I'm not saying that means we shouldn't work around the Crane, or try to knock them down a peg if we see an opportunity. They're screwing with us, and even if that's as natural as breathing to them it still deserves some kind of response. But as Gman is saying, keeping a little objectivity in how we consider the Clan of Doji might be a good idea going forward.
 
Last edited:
Wade Garrett said:
[X] Seek out the Scorpion, perhaps Bayushi Yamato will be able to offer advice or information.

I'm voting for this because going to talk to the Emperor after that...Court is all about presentation and sending messages and what impression you make.

Going straight to the Emperor after the Crane kicked us in the teeth like that, I'm kinda getting a vibe of "Dad! Daaaaaad! The Crane are picking on me!" (Not saying that's what we're doing, saying that's what it would look like to everyone else).

Going to talk to the Crab...that would be what everyone expects after that, for us and them to huddle up all night talking about what assholes the Crane, Lion, and Dragon are.

Hanging with the Scorpion shows that we don't run to the Emperor as soon as things get rough, and it flips the script a little bit. And I'm positive Bayushi Yamato will have some advice about this mess.

Evil, dishonorable advice that advances a Scorpion agenda and is intended to manipulate Tsubaki, but that's everything a Scorpion daimyo ever does so it goes without saying, really.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

So this changed my mind on the vote, now voting:
[X] Seek out the Scorpion, perhaps Bayushi Yamato will be able to offer advice or information.
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top