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[L5R] Minor Clan Quest

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Wade Garrett said:
Or...

We don't deliberately get into dick measuring contests with any of the Great Clans because we'll lose. To any of them. We make nice where we can, take our licks when we have to, and hopefully come out ahead of where we started.

And then we go home and slap huge tariffs on anything the Crane, Lion, or Dragon try to ship through our lands.:V
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I'd say the tariffs would probably make too much trouble for us. We're a Minor Clan. We live on trade. Dissing ANY Great Clan is just asking to get fucked in the process.

We don't do that. We just give our friends favorable trade terms instead. They can afford to throw away national sums of money to diss the Crab with a present to us, tariffs just moves us from annoyance to significant annoyance.

Think about that.
 
Following up on what @Winged Knight said, the Crab also have the second-lowest honor of all the current Great Clans, and unlike the Scorpion do not have an Imperial mandate to be occasionally sneaky. In canon the Yasuki are deep in bed with the Kolat, the Hiruma practice guerrilla warfare, the Kuni perform sickening experiments on dead flesh, the Hida have allied themselves with thieving rat-creatures, the Kaiu create nothing artistic nor anything that does not serve a purpose for killing enemies... granted, it's a 'those who fight monsters are doomed to become monsters themselves' sort of situation but it doesn't change the fact that Crab are on average creepy, rude, obnoxious, and ruthless.
 
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[X] Seek out the Scorpion, perhaps Bayushi Yamato will be able to offer advice or information.

The Scorpion are no friends of the Crane or Lion--and while they're not generally openly hostile to the Dragon--the Dragon is far enough out of their normal routine now that they're probably considered "Free Game".

Running to the Crab is what they expect. They likely also have counters for "Go to the Emperor" and "Go to the Minor Clans", because those are both to be expected when a newly formed Minor Clan gets skullfucked in court from three sides.

Go to the Scorpion? That's usually considered poor enough for your health that it's not the first person's reaction--and that means that it should end up blindsiding them. And the Scorpion chiefly considers the other Great Clans to be their primary rivals, and they especially like tweaking the noses of the Lion and the Crane. He's... Probably not trustworthy, but we can likely wriggle away from the sting as it goes to wreck the bird.
 
quick setting question, what exactly is the cranes endgame with there embargoing of the crab? Do they hope to weaken them to the point where they have to ask for aid? do they plan to rally a force aginst whatever force of shadow spawn eventually overcome the starved crab? or are they just not thinking about the consequences of starving the guys manning the wall?
 
random_npc said:
quick setting question, what exactly is the cranes endgame with there embargoing of the crab? Do they hope to weaken them to the point where they have to ask for aid? do they plan to rally a force aginst whatever force of shadow spawn eventually overcome the starved crab? or are they just not thinking about the consequences of starving the guys manning the wall?
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That's an excellent question, and discovering the reason may be possible during the Winter Court.
 
veekie said:
I'd say the tariffs would probably make too much trouble for us. We're a Minor Clan. We live on trade. Dissing ANY Great Clan is just asking to get fucked in the process.

We don't do that. We just give our friends favorable trade terms instead. They can afford to throw away national sums of money to diss the Crab with a present to us, tariffs just moves us from annoyance to significant annoyance.

Think about that.
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Yeah, hence the pac man smiley.

I get that realistically our smart person response to having sand kicked in our faces here is to bolt our On tightly in place and say "Thank you Great Clan-sama may I have another" but that doesn't mean I have to like it.

;)
 
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I completely agree that the Crab have their downsides, after all, all of the Great Clans of Rokugan have some Serious Skeeve going on, which more often than not revolves around thinking their own particular way is the best way.

The Crab have been forced to become like the monsters they face and devalue everyone else for not suffering as they have, the Lion are so arrogant that Bellerophon would suggest they tone it down, the Crane are Form over Funtion to the point of insanity, the Phoneix are ruled by arrogant Mad Magicians, the Dragon can't speak clearly to save their lives (other than the Kitsuki who use...EVIDENCE instead of trusting the honorable word of samurai), the Unicorn are just kinda foreign to Rokugan and have the same sort of combat arrogance the Lion and the Crab do, and the Scorpion's only redeeming value is their near absolute loyalty!

In general, they've all got stuff that makes them seriously disliked by different groups in the fandom and within the setting. I think the Crane get a lot of Fandom hate because their whole thing is very classically Asian. It rubs people the wrong way because it's a somewhat alien mindset. I personally dislike the Crane because of their whole Arrogant Superiority thing. They can be every bit as underhanded as the Scorpion in their manipulations, they just do it in a way that is socially acceptable because they control what society finds acceptable. Plus, they don't have the whole Loyalty thing the Scorpion have.

Personally, my favorite clan is the Dragon, but I can admit that dear god they are far from unblemished paragons of righteousness. The thousand years of more or less total isolation and Hitomi's entire reign spring to mind.

Also, @storybookknight, Good Point on the Dragon Lion alliance being remarkable. I had completely forgotten about the Dragonfly thing. Though, I think that the rivalry there was mostly sublimated from the Dragon to the Dragonfly. Honestly, I'm not 100% on why the Dragonfly even GOT to be a Minor Clan though given the whole Love is a Curse thing in Rokugan...
 
Basically the Dragonfly exist the Dragon are just as fond of enthusiastically dicking everyone over as the Crane and the Scorpion, they're just waaaaay more passive-aggressive about it.
 
[x] Seek out the Scorpion, perhaps Bayushi Yamato will be able to offer advice or information.

Decided to go with this after reading the discussions. Although we probably do need to talk to the Crab later.
 
No, but, why did the Emperor make the Dragonfly a minor clan? I mean, the whole setup doesn't seem like one the Hantei would intervene in. A Mirumoto and an Isawa got married for love, in defiance of her engagement to an Akodo. The Akodo reacted predictably and raised an army to try and murder them all and take back his 'wife'. The Dragon and the Phoenix didn't take kindly to that and handed the Akodo his head in battle.

I ... suppose that the Tonbo were created as a minor clan and given a family name because that would be an end to things? Sort of a political third option beyond supporting either side. Upon reflection, that's how a surprising number of Minor Clans came into existence, not as a reward, but as a way to fix a massive political screw up.

It's just that that wasn't the end of things. The Akodo later challenged the Mirumoto to a duel, the Dragon was ordered to forfeit by his superiors to put an end to things and did so and died, and then the arrogant (and at that point drunken) Lion declared himself Dragonfly Champion and declared he'd marry his promised bride. THEN, the child of the Dragon and the Phoenix challenged the Lion and killed him stone dead in a duel he didn't have to forfeit.

I guess that got the principals mostly dealt with... but the whole situation was just a mess.
 
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so I can't help but notice that two of the three clans on top of the cranes shit list (scorpion and crab) are fairly close to the shadowlands. Given how they seem to be trying to starve out the crab they could honstly be hoping for an incursion through crab lands into scorpion ones. The only clan the Crane likes close enofgh to be in danger would be the unicorn, and using there influence to make sure whatever counter strike is constructed to repel the invasion is rallied in unicorn lands would protect the cranes ally while leaving the scorpions vulnerable. This would be catastrophic for us since we would be right in the path of any such incursion.

would something that horrific be at all in character for the crane? possibly taking into account that they are not military strategist and may not have a solid grasp for how bad such an incursion could be, or how it might behave.
 
random_npc said:
would something that horrific be at all in character for the crane? possibly taking into account that they are not military strategist and may not have a solid grasp for how bad such an incursion could be, or how it might behave.
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It's just as likely that an incursion that struck that deep would hit the Crane lands though, so it's a high risk, low reward sort of proposition since should the Crab fail it's rather easy to trace back to Crane obstructionism.

"How dare you let oni in and defile the southern rice fields given us by the Emperor?"

"Well, see, all we had was this fucking jade TEAPOT to throw at them..."
 
Emerald Oracle said:
No, but, why did the Emperor make the Dragonfly a minor clan? I mean, the whole setup doesn't seem like one the Hantei would intervene in. A Mirumoto and an Isawa got married for love, in defiance of her engagement to an Akodo. The Akodo reacted predictably and raised an army to try and murder them all and take back his 'wife'. The Dragon and the Phoenix didn't take kindly to that and handed the Akodo his head in battle.

I ... suppose that the Tonbo were created as a minor clan and given a family name because that would be an end to things? Sort of a political third option beyond supporting either side. Upon reflection, that's how a surprising number of Minor Clans came into existence, not as a reward, but as a way to fix a massive political screw up.

It's just that that wasn't the end of things. The Akodo later challenged the Mirumoto to a duel, the Dragon was ordered to forfeit by his superiors to put an end to things and did so and died, and then the arrogant (and at that point drunken) Lion declared himself Dragonfly Champion and declared he'd marry his promised bride. THEN, the child of the Dragon and the Phoenix challenged the Lion and killed him stone dead in a duel he didn't have to forfeit.

I guess that got the principals mostly dealt with... but the whole situation was just a mess.
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The whole situation can be explained with geography, history, and religion. The Dragon's appointed role is as neutral watchers, and they can't do that if the Lion keep trying to kill them.

The Tonbo lands are smack in the middle of the only pass to Dragon lands.

It is illegal for a Great Clan to attack a Minor Clan.

So basically the Lion can no longer mess with the Dragon, and peace returns to Rokugan.
 
Mina said:
It's just as likely that an incursion that struck that deep would hit the Crane lands though, so it's a high risk, low reward sort of proposition since should the Crab fail it's rather easy to trace back to Crane obstructionism.

"How dare you let oni in and defile the southern rice fields given us by the Emperor?"

"Well, see, all we had was this fucking jade TEAPOT to throw at them..."
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well thats a relief then. I was worried the way the truth seems to mix with rokugan politics the way water mixes with oil would make blame shifting really easy. So baring subversion among the higher echelons of the crane, they don't want the wall to be breached. So they are most likely starving the crab to try and force concessions out of them then, but what on earth could they hope to ask from the crab? I mean yes the crab ask for stuff all the time, but they can't really not do that since they have almost no viable farmland and need to maintain a giant standing army. Do the crane just not realize how dangerous the game there playing is?
 
random_npc said:
Do the crane just not realize how dangerous the game there playing is?
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No, they don't. From my understanding, no one really considers the Kaiu Wall falling and the Shadowlands marching into Rokugan a meaningful possibility. The Crab have been good enough at their job for long enough that everyone else just kind of takes it for granted and assumes the Crab overstate the threat for their own advantage. (And to be fair, I wouldn't be surprised if sometimes that's the case: none of the Clans are the "good guys.")
 
anowack said:
No, they don't. From my understanding, no one really considers the Kaiu Wall falling and the Shadowlands marching into Rokugan a meaningful possibility. The Crab have been good enough at their job for long enough that everyone else just kind of takes it for granted and assumes the Crab overstate the threat for their own advantage. (And to be fair, I wouldn't be surprised if sometimes that's the case: none of the Clans are the "good guys.")
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Basically a thing.

Police get a lot of shit in civilized countries as well(though of course, there's some abuse going on), that there is actual law and order gets taken for granted.

Similar issue.

I'm guessing they're doing this whole thing to get a one up on the Crab so that they'd actually DO some courtly stuff instead of going "Wallwallwallwalljadewallwallricewallwall" where the Crane are concerned. Make them bloody civilized.
 
Emerald Oracle said:
No, but, why did the Emperor make the Dragonfly a minor clan? I mean, the whole setup doesn't seem like one the Hantei would intervene in. A Mirumoto and an Isawa got married for love, in defiance of her engagement to an Akodo. The Akodo reacted predictably and raised an army to try and murder them all and take back his 'wife'. The Dragon and the Phoenix didn't take kindly to that and handed the Akodo his head in battle.
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EtchedSteel said:
Because there's this Imperial edict that states no Mayor Clan can wage open war against a Minor Clan.
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The sad thing? It's Crane's duty as servants of Hantei to organize Scorpions to go check how much truth Crabs are telling then organize rest of the clans in proper response if they do. Crabs don't politics because it was supposed to be Cranes doing that.

Another sad thing that in theory Crane have a point (kinda like Kolat) - what Crab did the moment they though they are actually winning over Shadowlands... *facepalm*
 
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[X] Seek out the Scorpion, perhaps Bayushi Yamato will be able to offer advice or information.


I am convinced. Hantai-dono will have to suffer alone.
 
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