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[L5R] Minor Clan Quest

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Kelenas said:
Kinda surprised people are so keen on taking the Unity hit to adopt the Firemen.
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Everything hits our Unity.

5.5 though is still pretty damn solid. Well in the "Unusually good" territory, which should help resist shadowruns.

And if we're pushing out an entrenched opium trade, we need manpower and the ability to enforce our will. Both of those are maximized with Give and Take.
 
Candesce said:
If we want to purge the Brotherhood, the Firemen aren't really optional.
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The Ronin would provide all the manpower we need, and in my opinion the Canaries are much more useful for reducing or removing the Opiom trade in general because they'll give us a better knowledge about the means and routes it'd enter our province/city through.
 
Alectai said:
And if we're pushing out an entrenched opium trade, we need manpower and the ability to enforce our will. Both of those are maximized with Give and Take.
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I'm somewhat concerned by the Honor hit we take from recruiting more ronin; it brings us down to 3.5, and I expect Honor is also relevant to avoiding corruption and shadowruns.
Kelenas said:
the Canaries are much more useful for reducing or removing the Opiom trade
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I'd contest the "much more useful" - it's one point of Information vs. one point of Enforcement - and the notoriety and diplomacy hits are significantly worse than the Firemen's popularity and unity.
 
The thing is that popularity and unity are most likely much more difficult to raise, because they're more reliant on outside factors. We probably could raise our Popularity via stuff like charity, but it's unlikely to be even remotely as effective as the event that gained us our high popularity in the first place.
By comparison, improving our ability to be a good host via guest quarters and whatnot should be vastly easier.

Throw in that Unity explicitly helps with preventing our people from being subverted, and I'd rather have 6.5 than 5.5.
 
Let's look from other point of view about unity - who would be easier to assimilate?

On one hand Firemen have long-standing feud... and on other despite that they have similar enough set of value so it's likely that they can put lid on that feud and hate when dealing against any "external" threat.

Canaries have diffrent set of views even if they have a touch of similarity. It would be much harder to assimilate them because those are not core value that are similar.

So while Firemen are bigger hit they also should be one easier to restore from.
 
Kelenas said:
The thing is that popularity and unity are most likely much more difficult to raise, because they're more reliant on outside factors.
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Like, say, crushing the use of opium in our city?

Unity also goes up with time, full stop. So long as we're not acquiring new reasons to spend it, dropping unity to "well above average" isn't much of a disaster.
 
Kelenas said:
The thing is that popularity and unity are most likely much more difficult to raise, because they're more reliant on outside factors. We probably could raise our Popularity via stuff like charity, but it's unlikely to be even remotely as effective as the event that gained us our high popularity in the first place.
By comparison, improving our ability to be a good host via guest quarters and whatnot should be vastly easier.

Throw in that Unity explicitly helps with preventing our people from being subverted, and I'd rather have 6.5 than 5.5.
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I'm pretty sure that in the mechanics of the quest, raising any Ring subcategory is going to require an equal investment to any other.

One reason why I switched is because the Ring score takes the lower of the two associated subcategories. Diplomacy 3 Popularity 3 is Air 3, whereas Diplomacy 2 Popularity 4 would be Air 2.
 
al103 said:
So while Firemen are bigger hit they also should be one easier to restore from.
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That seems like contradictory wishful thinking. If anything the bigger hit means it should be harder to restore from as the disruption is bigger.
Jaertin said:
I'm pretty sure that in the mechanics of the quest, raising any Ring subcategory is going to require an equal investment to any other.

One reason why I switched is because the Ring score takes the lower of the two associated subcategories. Diplomacy 3 Popularity 3 is Air 3, whereas Diplomacy 2 Popularity 4 would be Air 2.
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AFAIK, the Ring score is pretty irrelevant for anyone who isn't a Shugenja, while the attributes themselves are used much more often. And it's cheaper to raise a low attribute than a high one.
 
Kelenas said:
That seems like contradictory wishful thinking. If anything the bigger hit means it should be harder to restore from as the disruption is bigger.
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Eh. I could easily see the Canaries bringing in new traditions we'd find more objectionable than any the Firemen have - in which case we either have to put up with the tradition or burn more unity. Don't think it's hugely likely, but we could end up say, with a tradition of being willing to accept bribes.
 
Kelenas said:
That seems like contradictory wishful thinking. If anything the bigger hit means it should be harder to restore from as the disruption is bigger.
AFAIK, the Ring score is pretty irrelevant for anyone who isn't a Shugenja, while the attributes themselves are used much more often. And it's cheaper to raise a low attribute than a high one.
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The bigger hit will be harder to recover from, but absorbing the firemen has the smallest disruption to values, fwiw.

Adding the Canaries will make it easier to find the Brotherhood to exterminate them. Adding the Firemen will make it easier to eliminate them once you've found them.
 
Candesce said:
Eh. I could easily see the Canaries bringing in new traditions we'd find more objectionable than any the Firemen have - in which case we either have to put up with the tradition or burn more unity. Don't think it's hugely likely, but we could end up say, with a tradition of being willing to accept bribes.
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One potential Canary tradition: yellow hair dye.
 
storybookknight said:
The bigger hit will be harder to recover from, but absorbing the firemen has the smallest disruption to values, fwiw.

Adding the Canaries will make it easier to find the Brotherhood to exterminate them. Adding the Firemen will make it easier to eliminate them once you've found them.
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Which is exactly why I consider the Canaries more worthwhile. Manpower we can get from the Ronin or simply by recruiting some heimin ashigaru or constables (whatever the non-samurai assistants for law enforcement officers are called); Information, on the other hand, are a fair bit harder to come by, at least in a timely fashion.

Basically, the Firemen don't get us anything new, while the Canaries expand our options.
 
Candesce said:
Like, say, crushing the use of opium in our city?

Unity also goes up with time, full stop. So long as we're not acquiring new reasons to spend it, dropping unity to "well above average" isn't much of a disaster.
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It does go up with time, but full stop is a bit of a misconception because it also drops when a leader dies, which does tend to happen as time goes on.
 
So that brings us to 9 to 11 - close enough that I won't make any final decisions just yet. Luckily the two versions of chapter 1.2 won't be too different from each other.
 
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