Kingdom of God: A Quest of Holy Revolution

[Cetashwayo]

At the same time, the fate of our big tent faction is going to rely on Metamoa pining the 15k Originating Army down and diverting its supplies and reinforcements so that the Sword Altar cannot succeed in its purge thanks to lacking overwhelming force.

Click to shrink...

It's unlikely that Metamoa can pin down such a huge force, especially as it's outside of their territory. Metamoa can only really fight right now against forces marching into it, not attack outwards against an entrenched position full of Jurors. There is currently no indication they have a target beyond Metamoa.

There is no indication at the moment that Ma'on is leaderless. They lost a sage which is bad and their leadership is reeling but they're not going to commit instant suicide. That does not preclude rogue action.

 

[Deadly Snark]

It's unlikely that Metamoa can pin down such a huge force, especially as it's outside of their territory. Metamoa can only really fight right now against forces marching into it, not attack outwards against an entrenched position full of Jurors.

Click to shrink...

Ah so Metamoa is just an excuse to gather their forces then.

Well the White-Gold Standard better carry I guess.

 

[Cetashwayo]

I've made some edits in the post above to make it clearer as well.

edit: woops part of the edit got cut, I added it back in.

 

[Etranger]

No that's not what I'm saying. Look at my post again.

I'm not saying we are should give in to the urge for immediate vengeance and violence.

I'm saying all these clever plans about efficiency won't matter if we forget that there is a volatile element. That the Sword Altar deliberately provoked. The Ma'on.

Because if we arent riding on herd on the Ma'on to get them under control, the Ma'on will attack the Grand Synod very soon regardless of what anyone else wishes, wants or plans. And then the war will be on before we had a time for a well planned and well considered anything.

Click to shrink...

I don't think there's any actual proof of that being the case. Like, it's a possibility, sure. It's equally possible that Ma'on is rendered disorganized by the loss of its leader and thus incapable of taking offensive action. Telling people in all bold letters that they HAVE to pick your chosen options or it'll lead to immediate calamity is just exaggerated fearmongering. Maybe ratchet it back a bit?

In times of crisis, rather than blindly lashing out or allowing ourselves to be provoked, it is better to make our plans, build our strength, and then strike on our terms in a manner that is unmistakable. That'll accomplish far more than uncoordinated rage.

 

[tygerbright]

[X] With the Rage of Rehabam we destroy our foes [Fervor rises to Absolute, recruitment will continue, the sect will prioritize absolute militancy over the next few weeks as it prepares measures to defend against the Jury of Nachivan].
[X] Ma'on, the gunpowder-fists of the Western Navel [Gain a contact in the Militant Pugilist sect and its squads of street-toughs, granting strong bodies on the ground].
[X] Elder Komandir Varhan Sarbadgar, who brings with him the support of his Pale Horse Standard and some of the most extreme veterans of the War with the Mare, many of them on leave in Nachivan and spoiling for a fight.

 

[Deadly Snark]

I don't think there's any actual proof of that being the case. Like, it's a possibility, sure. It's equally possible that Ma'on is rendered disorganized by the loss of its leader and thus incapable of taking offensive action. Telling people in all bold letters that they HAVE to pick your chosen options or it'll lead to immediate calamity is just exaggerated fearmongering. Maybe ratchet it back a bit?

In times of crisis, rather than blindly lashing out or allowing ourselves to be provoked, it is better to make our plans, build our strength, and then strike on our terms in a manner that is unmistakable. That'll accomplish far more than uncoordinated rage.

Click to shrink...

My post was made as an warning because I realized that we almost made the classical mistake everyone makes everytime a situation like this happens. Where the players all try to be rational and make well-considered decisions, but then failed to account for the idiots crashing a cart into something, throwing everything in the crapper.

Perhaps that won't happen here.

However, you fundamentally misunderstand the dangers involved. You are arguing "its equally possible that they become disorganized and thus cannot take offensive action". When in actuality that's actually the most dangerous situation. If their leadership was intact and on top form, they'd be able to organize the Ma'on and keep their members under control, and therefore make plans, build up their strength and then strike on favorable terms.

The fact that they are reeling makes it far more likely that someone among their ranks will lash out in rage. Because they are a very large sect. And with the Grand Synod right in our neighborhood, you don't actually need more than 10 idiots doing something to give the Sword-Altar all the justification it sought to provoke.

Maybe it wont happen. But you havent actually argued in a way that make it less likely. And ultimately, our chances of avoiding such a worse case scenario is defnitely higher if we are allied with the Ma'on and thus can see what's going on, and are able to help shore up their leadership and provide support to avoid some idiot lashing out blindly in rage.

 

[Etranger]

My post was made as an warning because I realized that we almost made the classical mistake everyone makes everytime a situation like this happens. Where the players all try to be rational and make well-considered decisions, but then failed to account for the idiots crashing a cart into something, throwing everything in the crapper.

Perhaps that won't happen here.

However, you fundamentally misunderstand the dangers involved. You are arguing "its equally possible that they become disorganized and thus cannot take offensive action". When in actuality that's actually the most dangerous situation. If their leadership was intact and on top form, they'd be able to organize the Ma'on and keep their members under control, and therefore make plans, build up their strength and then strike on favorable terms.

The fact that they are reeling makes it far more likely that someone among their ranks will lash out in rage. Because they are a very large sect. And with the Grand Synod right in our neighborhood, you don't actually need more than 10 idiots doing something to give the Sword-Altar all the justification it sought to provoke.

Maybe it wont happen. But you havent actually argued in a way that make it less likely. And ultimately, our chances of avoiding such a worse case scenario is defnitely higher if we are allied with the Ma'on and thus can see what's going on, and able to help shore up their leadership and provide support to avoid some idiot lashing out blindly in rage.

Click to shrink...

I'm not convinced by the argument that we must save Ma'on from themselves and that our presence/support will be the deciding factor that keeps them from randomly popping off. Absent any actual evidence or reasoning beyond personal guesswork, I don't see the urgency in picking one option over the other, except in terms of ideological and strategic value. I think trying to cast it like we have some kind of moral imperative to pick Ma'on over the others is misleading and not supported by the evidence, so maybe don't do that.

 

[Deadly Snark]

I'm not convinced by the argument that we must save Ma'on from themselves and that our presence/support will be the deciding factor that keeps them from randomly popping off. Absent any actual evidence or reasoning beyond personal guesswork, I don't see the urgency in picking one option over the other, except in terms of ideological and strategic value. I think trying to cast it like we have some kind of moral imperative to pick Ma'on over the others is misleading and not supported by the evidence, so maybe don't do that.

Click to shrink...

My argument is hardly based on some moral imperative. Anyone who knows me knows that I plainly dont care about moral imperatives. Moral Imperative is for people who wants to die while the other side holds the actual high ground.

I argue in terms of practical and strategic value.

And in practical and strategic terms, Ma'on provides a source of manpower that will be necessary for any actions to defend ourselves and the Sanhedron. Which we need. Combined with Fervor and the Pale Horse that gives us the most brute force.

That is the primary argument.

However, there is another layer in that we know what the other 3 Sects will do. The Ohr will use their connections in the press to help Sanhedral Elders to rally support and coordinate our allies. The Amalists are smuggling weapons to groups that will help stab the Originators on the sides. The Makabam can be trusted to come out as a disciplined militia to stand on the Sanhedron's side when the shit hits the fan.

We can account for the generalities of the plans of all three. They have well planned agendas moving forward.

We do not know the same for the Ma'on. Going for one of the other 3 means that we would be acting with a big information void, about a faction that has the Grand Synod within arms reach. Maybe something will happen, maybe nothing will happen. But that information in itself is critical.

So manpower and information. Those are pretty important strategical assets.

 

[Cetashwayo]

One thing I think I'll do, maybe before next update, is a dedicated news and rumors section for the city, the country, and abroad. It is becoming somewhat unwieldy and unfair to pepper important references into updates which are otherwise focused on the core narrative, so it'll be easier for both players and me, and provide more news on what's outside. Obviously the sect remains focused on Nachivan, and its intelligence is weak, but this is a literate and relatively modern country, there's no reason not to get at least some stuff.

 

[Random Member]

[X] With the Rage of Rehabam we destroy our foes [Fervor rises to Absolute, recruitment will continue, the sect will prioritize absolute militancy over the next few weeks as it prepares measures to defend against the Jury of Nachivan].

[X] Ohr, the Militant-scholars of Wisdom's Heart [Gain a contact in the True Confessor sect and its network of city safehouses and secret tunnels, granting your sect escape and attack routes].
[] Ma'on, the gunpowder-fists of the Western Navel [Gain a contact in the Militant Pugilist sect and its squads of street-toughs, granting strong bodies on the ground].

[X] Elder Komandir Varhan Sarbadgar, who brings with him the support of his Pale Horse Standard and some of the most extreme veterans of the War with the Mare, many of them on leave in Nachivan and spoiling for a fight.

 

[Pempelune]

[X] With the Rage of Rehabam we destroy our foes [Fervor rises to Absolute, recruitment will continue, the sect will prioritize absolute militancy over the next few weeks as it prepares measures to defend against the Jury of Nachivan].
[X] Ma'on, the gunpowder-fists of the Western Navel [Gain a contact in the Militant Pugilist sect and its squads of street-toughs, granting strong bodies on the ground].
[X] Elder Komandir Varhan Sarbadgar, who brings with him the support of his Pale Horse Standard and some of the most extreme veterans of the War with the Mare, many of them on leave in Nachivan and spoiling for a fight.

 

[IamtooSleepy]

[x] With the Rage of Rehabam we destroy our foes [Fervor rises to Absolute, recruitment will continue, the sect will prioritize absolute militancy over the next few weeks as it prepares measures to defend against the Jury of Nachivan].

While the concern about letting our zealously getting over our discipline is not exactly unfounded, I believe our sect is sufficiently disciplined to prevent it from becoming too much of a problem... I hope

[x] As Hahahyiim, the trance-knights of Little Eykshir [Gain a contact in the Mystic Amalist sect and its web of spies and scouts, granting advance warning of Juror actions and movements].

Individually, our sect will always be outnumbered by the Sword-Altar, only through cooperation can our revolution success. But why Hahahyiim then rather than the other sects like Ma'on who actually have the number we lack? For this, I look to the reason we are gathering here now, the reason our poor Yoni has become a martyr is not because we lack in strength, in experience, or in discipline. No, it is because we lack the knowledge of what the enemy of the righteous is planning - the knowledge that the Hahahyiim have. There will always be time where we are separated which leave the opening for the Sword-Altar to strike, therefore, I suggest we look to what Hahahyiim know so we can conserve our force and plan accordingly.

...Yes, I know, Amalist vote never win, but that won't stop me from voting for them.

[X] Elder Komandir Varhan Sarbadgar, who brings with him the support of his Pale Horse Standard and some of the most extreme veterans of the War with the Mare, many of them on leave in Nachivan and spoiling for a fight.

Other have already spoke for this part. Jury are like the fertile soil where seed of our sect doctrine could spread, and it is the force of armed jury that we needed right now.

 

[Cataphract]

And to the northwest of the city, in a quiet cemetery, a sect bids farewell to their angel boy.

Click to shrink...

One thing I really love about @Cetashwayo's writing style is the way that he so effortlessly move from an eagle's eye perspective of the churning mess of politics and war and atrocity that's plaguing our lands to the fleeting moments of personal interactions between members of HaKhofshim... wonderful stuff! I just wanted to say that.

 

[Arcus]

[X] With the Rage of Rehabam we destroy our foes [Fervor rises to Absolute, recruitment will continue, the sect will prioritize absolute militancy over the next few weeks as it prepares measures to defend against the Jury of Nachivan].
[X] Ma'on, the gunpowder-fists of the Western Navel [Gain a contact in the Militant Pugilist sect and its squads of street-toughs, granting strong bodies on the ground].
[X] Elder Komandir Varhan Sarbadgar, who brings with him the support of his Pale Horse Standard and some of the most extreme veterans of the War with the Mare, many of them on leave in Nachivan and spoiling for a fight.

The city is pretty much a tinderbox at this point, so it's less a question if there's going to be further violence and more a question of when.

 

[MordredRaal]

[X] With the Rage of Rehabam we destroy our foes [Fervor rises to Absolute, recruitment will continue, the sect will prioritize absolute militancy over the next few weeks as it prepares measures to defend against the Jury of Nachivan].
[X] Ma'on, the gunpowder-fists of the Western Navel [Gain a contact in the Militant Pugilist sect and its squads of street-toughs, granting strong bodies on the ground].
[X] Elder Komandir Varhan Sarbadgar, who brings with him the support of his Pale Horse Standard and some of the most extreme veterans of the War with the Mare, many of them on leave in Nachivan and spoiling for a fight.

 

[yobbin2000]

[x] With the Rage of Rehabam we destroy our foes [Fervor rises to Absolute, recruitment will continue, the sect will prioritize absolute militancy over the next few weeks as it prepares measures to defend against the Jury of Nachivan].

[x] Makabam, the Idol-Smashers of Old Nach [Gain a contact in the Political Iconoclast sect and its experienced streetfighters, who give your sect special advice in urban warfare].

[x] Elder Rector Massima Rachel, who brings with her the support of the rapidly growing Sanhedral Zekhedri Sect seeking to found the Moral Kingdom, bringing with them many of the most radical members of the Sanhedron.

For the alliance I think the Makabam are best, next turn when we take the fight to the Nachivan Jury it's going to be a block by block battle for control of the city so having the urban warfare fighters on our side will be essential.
The Ma'on can be written off they are hyper masculine and hysterical, they will be blindly lashing out next turn regardless so we don't need to be allies or direct them as they will be causing maximum chaos on their own.
The As Hahahyiim are useless what point is having spies and scouts when we could be on the offensive. If we are fighting in the street and directing the operational tempo then spies are almost a non factor.
Ohr are ok but if we are driving our enemies before us what need do we have for escape tunnels and safe houses.

 

[Regency]

Missing, bitterly, is Rector Qanam. A letter arrives from him not a day before that is read at the funeral, outlining adventures with the Metamoa, the trust he is earning with Vashti, that a host of Originator Juries has gathered against them 15,000 strong in Tendavara but does not yet attack. He ends the letter saying he wish he could smuggle gifts and not just letters: He has a pipe for Wendam, a fine old manuscript for Dvorah, a beating stick for Tanda, and he notes with special glee, a little surprise for Young Yoni.

Click to shrink...

So many dust in my eyes...

All sects have issues with you, they just don't voice them because it's impolite and counterproductive.

Click to shrink...

Unironically better awareness than the entire modern "Left"

[X] With the Wrath of Barabas we wipe away our enemies [Discipline rises to Absolute, recruitment will pause, the sect will prioritize absolute order over the next few weeks as it prepares measures to defend itself against the Jury of Nachivan].
[X] Ohr, the Militant-scholars of Wisdom's Heart [Gain a contact in the True Confessor sect and its network of city safehouses and secret tunnels, granting your sect escape and attack routes].
[X] Elder Komandir Varhan Sarbadgar, who brings with him the support of his Pale Horse Standard and some of the most extreme veterans of the War with the Mare, many of them on leave in Nachivan and spoiling for a fight.

Edit: discipline, escape routes, & heterodox Jury support.

 

[Fireiy]

[X] With the Wrath of Barabas we wipe away our enemies [Discipline rises to Absolute, recruitment will pause, the sect will prioritize absolute order over the next few weeks as it prepares measures to defend itself against the Jury of Nachivan].
[X] As Hahahyiim, the trance-knights of Little Eykshir [Gain a contact in the Mystic Amalist sect and its web of spies and scouts, granting advance warning of Juror actions and movements].
[X] Elder Komandir Varhan Sarbadgar, who brings with him the support of his Pale Horse Standard and some of the most extreme veterans of the War with the Mare, many of them on leave in Nachivan and spoiling for a fight.

Well I see I joined just in time for things to explode. I swear I did nothing! Now.

I must disagree with the majority opinion that the time to rise up is now. A riot of the masses is exactly what the Jury of Nachivan are prepared for and hoped to provoke. Our rage is righteous, but we must be careful to not let its intensity blind us and burn beyond our control. They have prepared for this and caught us off guard. To me it is clear that we must ally with the As Hahahyiim, their knowledge a weapon far more potent than a mere blade. A calculated strike made with cold anger will be far more effective than an outpouring of rage in the streets; especially when the Jurors will already be focused on the loudest outpourings of anger.

 

[ArvisPresley]

[X] With the Wrath of Barabas we wipe away our enemies [Discipline rises to Absolute, recruitment will pause, the sect will prioritize absolute order over the next few weeks as it prepares measures to defend itself against the Jury of Nachivan].
[X] As Hahahyiim, the trance-knights of Little Eykshir [Gain a contact in the Mystic Amalist sect and its web of spies and scouts, granting advance warning of Juror actions and movements].
[X] Elder Komandir Varhan Sarbadgar, who brings with him the support of his Pale Horse Standard and some of the most extreme veterans of the War with the Mare, many of them on leave in Nachivan and spoiling for a fight.

Obligatory Amalist option vote

 

[Anchises]

Will never understand why people think its a good idea to the fight the jury head on? Like allying with the Ma'on plunges us into a fight that is going to be hard to win and incredibly costly. Emulating the ways of the urban guerilla and employing hit and run tactics is the way to go here, not an open street fight.

Ohr also allows us to play the PR game which is going to be crucial to win this conflict while Ma'on offers us very little besides raw manpower which means enganging the jurors on their turf

 

[ScottishMongol]

Will never understand why people think its a good idea to the fight the jury head on? Like allying with the Ma'on plunges us into a fight that is going to be hard to win and incredibly costly. Emulating the ways of the urban guerilla and employing hit and run tactics is the way to go here, not an open street fight.

Ohr also allows us to play the PR game which is going to be crucial to win this conflict while Ma'on offers us very little besides raw manpower which means enganging the jurors on their turf

Click to shrink...

The idea is not that we want to pick a fight with them but that inevitably they are going to pick a fight with us and we want to hit back.

 

[Desdemona]

[X] With the Wrath of Barabas we wipe away our enemies [Discipline rises to Absolute, recruitment will pause, the sect will prioritize absolute order over the next few weeks as it prepares measures to defend itself against the Jury of Nachivan].
[X] Ohr, the Militant-scholars of Wisdom's Heart [Gain a contact in the True Confessor sect and its network of city safehouses and secret tunnels, granting your sect escape and attack routes].
[X] Elder Komandir Varhan Sarbadgar, who brings with him the support of his Pale Horse Standard and some of the most extreme veterans of the War with the Mare, many of them on leave in Nachivan and spoiling for a fight.

 

[Anchises]

The idea is not that we want to pick a fight with them but that inevitably they are going to pick a fight with us and we want to hit back.

Click to shrink...

Yeah but why would we pick an open street battle? Hit and run + good press coverage seems like a far better idea?

We are in the age of machine guns which means urban guerilla is going to be a better approach than building barricades. Especially because we didn't arm ourselves for a head on fight.

 

[Zaealix]

Everyone is angry at Sword Altar, but has it not been noticed that when anger seizes someone, they lash out with whatever they can find to wield?

I fear I see a vision, and I cannot dispel it, of a great Flood drowning Nachivan in blood, that draws the Mare to feast on the Kingdom of God!

 

[Deadly Snark]

Because we dont have the numbers to play the Guerilla game effectively either. We are tiny even with the Pale Horse Veterans.

Ma'on does not just offer us raw manpower, though raw manpower is still very important. All the successful Guerillas have won because they secured a solid pipeline of manpower that they can use to try and be clever against the foe. Not as big as their opponents, but they still need it. You are not gonna win as a partisan if you dont have the presence to draw on a solid foundation of manpowers to keep replacing your numbers. For us that's Ma'on and the other Pugilist Sects.

Ma'on also helps us to make the Western Navel a solid defensive position that will be harder for the Sword Altar to crack, and gives us the force to menace the Grand Synod, which is right next to us. This is important because it means that this way, both the Originators and the Sanhedron have daggers pointed at the other side's political heart. This creates a stalemate. This buys our entire Big Tent alliance time. Time for the Ohr to rally and coordinate more allies with the Sanhedral Elders, time for the Amalists to arm more of our nominal allies outside of the city to stab the Originating Juries and Circles, and time for the Makabam to also gather more manpower themselves.

Guerillas dont win wars by being tactical special forces that are elites or whatever it is people think they are. The Vietcongs, the CPC, Taliban, and the IRA, these are all groups whose successes depended on the fact that they had their hooks dead into the pulse into their societies which provided them with a steady stream of raw manpower. Their actual numbers of fighters started off small yes, but if they had stayed small with the idea of winning because they had a smaller and more nimble force they'd have been grounded away into nothing.

There is a reason the Maoist Strategem of War tells Guerillas that securing political and popular support among your base is the single most important thing that Revolutionary Groups can possibly do. It is literally their lifeline. Hit and Run tactics is the Tactical level. Guerillas that get enamored with the tactial level fucking die. You want to win via the operational level, and that means leveraging your popular and political support to have the manpower and supporters to keep going with the bloody hit and runs, and still have the fat to be flexible.

With the Sect we have political commissars and leaders to keep the force ideologically committed and able to make alliances, with the Pale Horse Veterans we have the NCOs and officers that can drill people into shape. But that's still a tiny fucking core, we need the manpower so that the first two can bring their talent to the fullest effect.