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It Belongs to a Museum

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Chimeraguard said:
[ ] Plan The Story of Skjold
-[ ] Investigate (Kraken Sea and the Tide of Skjold)
-[ ] Acquire Relic (Replica of the Tide of Skjold (the ship.))
-[ ] Excursion - Tide of Skjold (Kraken Sea, Sea Beasts, priority being one of a species that the Norscans of the Kraken Sea offer their dead to, preferably with the body in good enough condition to be stuffed and preserved rather than just the skeleton.)

Alright, so as I've mentioned before, my plan for an exhibit revolves around the Kraken Sea. In specific, the funerary practices of the Norscans who live upon the shores bordering it (which I believe are the Bjornlings) and how, both in terms of culturally (the feeding of the dead to the sea beasts, and how some are rejected and float down to the bottom) and magically (whatever phenomena brings them back as zombies) that led to the creation of the Tide of Skjold.
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With the presence of the Runestone, it seems reasearching the Pearl of the Kraken Sea would make an interesting next beat in their story.

We should also see about getting a Sea Monster and religious expert of some kind, because its starting to come up and is important for providing the context for these sorts of bodies.
 
The Tide would probably count for the Diaspora if they were actually raised in their homeland and thus an example of the global spread of necromancy, or if they were raised by a less impressive necromancer and thus their only surviving masterwork or something. Or maybe even if they dedicated themselves to revenge against their home and were teaching the far north that even they need to fear the Undead.

But instead their corpses were dragged to a location with a decent claim to being the world's necromancy capital where they were raised by Lutr himself and have served him faithfully since. Thus the actual magic is the least noteworthy bit of their story.

CornyBones said:
with the presence of the Runestone, it seems reasearching the Pearl of the Kraken Sea would make an interesting next beat in their story.
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I personally think we should send them to every ocean of the world with instruction to fetch Religion relics, and then create an exhibit to honor their heresy using those.
 
CornyBones said:
With the presence of the Runestone, it seems reasearching the Pearl of the Kraken Sea would make an interesting next beat in their story.

We should also see about getting a Sea Monster and religious expert of some kind, because its starting to come up and is important for providing the context for these sorts of bodies.
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Mmm - if one Stefanie van Walvisstraat proves findable, that would be excellent! Does compete with a number of relevant Goodwill options (recruiting from the White Tower, getting one of Paht's students as a contact for Nehekharan artefacts, finding acquisitionists capable of travel in more respectable ports, potentially forging those Elven colonial connections) but, well, that's probably always going to be an issue.
 
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If it's not possible to get over the 'two goodwill' barrier with an exhibit, Runestone or otherwise, it'd be better to just bring on board the Arabyans to tip us over the 'one goodwill' threshold and hold off on a new exhibit til we have more to put in there.

Ideas for the next exhibit brought up so far:

  • Norsca/Kraken Sea, Runestone as Centrepiece. Most Interest will come from the Trophy/History crowd of Awakening and the Sea Beast crowd of Sea Elves. We'll want to send the Tide out on at least one expedition, probably several.
  • Lustrian Magic, tentatively Siren-Wail as Centrepiece. Aelsabrim's "Relics" option will likely fill out a lot. The magical plants from the Isle of Lost Souls ("Acquire Relic: Plants") add more, and either of our remaining lead-investigations add yet more. We could also Investigate: Luthor Harkon the Sorcerer or Investigate: Clan Pestilens for more leads, or perhaps send the Tide to Port Reaver to trawl through the pirate-hauls taken from Treasure-ships leaving Lustria.
  • Vampire/Necromantic exhibit. Appealing to our primary patron. We have no relevant centrepiece. The only method we have for this at the moment is sending the Tide out to hotspots like Lahmia or Moussilon, so this is more of a long-term thing. Investigate: Count Noctilus/Dreadfleet...maybe gets us something? If we spend a goodwill to pick up Ibn Naggazar as offered this past turn, we could maybe put his Black Book up as a centrepiece, depending on exact tags.
  • Citadel of Dusk. Currently no centrepiece, but there are several things that might end up being one if we Investigate: Citadel of Dusk for leads - best of which is the lost Amulet of Sunfire, but, uh...it's lost. Probably in the ocean. Alternatively, we spend the upcoming Goodwill on getting something directly from Aelsabrim, most obviously the recently-killed Merwyrm that had been a major military/religious asset for the Citadel for quite some time. To round it out, Acquire Relics for the Relics, Gems, Elven Military Gear, even Plants, to make a catalogue of stuff that has passed through the Citadel in one way or another. Value, Lustrian Magic, Sea Beasts, a lot of nice tags there.
  • History of Awakening. Some direct acquisitions from Pahtsekhen on relic options like Pirate Codes, Flags, etc. Investigate: Luthor Harkon the Sorcerer/Commodore for more leads. We either send the Tide out on something more long-term, or have them dredge up stuff from the local waters. The Siren-Wail is probably the centrepiece here unless we spend the Goodwill on a Relic haul from Harkon to fish for something better.
 
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I think it makes the most sense to just make a Tide based exhibit than to try to force it into something that will draw attention from our patrons. The thing about having a varied collection even if some of the pieces are not popular when we put them together is that when we get new audiences, like those academics we can already pick up they will have more stuff to look at.
 
Boney said:
It is being depreciated (and deprecated), which means that the secrets they're learning and the countermeasures they'd develop would be about the Siren-Wail at its weakest. If that leads his enemies to think they can safely plan an invasion through the waters that it dominates, they probably won't enjoy what will happen if he cranks the power all the way back up.
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Ah I see the "lol feel free if you think you're hard enough" clause is in full effect then.
 
Tbh, I am coming around to the idea of spending the next goodwill on [-] New Relics (specify a Patron) to get a solid core for our next exhibit.

Mechanically, it's a very "spend a goodwill to gain a goodwill" option but, other than the clearly-linked Runestone for a Kraken Sea/Tide exhibit our centrepiece options (Siren-Wail, Swamp Python, Horned One) kind of need shoe-horning to get into the tags we want to hit. Even the best of them (Siren-Wail) Boney's been clear only qualifies for Lustrian Magic on a technicality, and besides it's already earning us most of its potential interest in the Dangers of Lustria exhibit.

If we're making something new, I'd personally much rather get an exhibit with a clear strong identity than 'eh, we need a centrepiece so here's a skeleton that makes sense for reasons if you squint a bit I guess'. If we don't 'buy' a good centrepiece, we're gambling on our leads panning out. Which they might, but they also might not and then we're spinning wheels or throwing crap together haphazardly to pass the next threshold in a timely manner.

Ideally this upcoming turn we secure a solid centrepiece through following up on our leads or getting a lucky haul from the Tide. If we don't, the following turn we go for the Runestone/Tide/Kraken Sea thing as a solid thematic exhibit, or we buy a centrepiece for one of the other options with Arabyan-interest goodwill.
 
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Gavin Prince said:
If it's not possible to get over the 'two goodwill' barrier with an exhibit, Runestone or otherwise, it'd be better to just bring on board the Arabyans to tip us over the 'one goodwill' threshold and hold off on a new exhibit til we have more to put in there.
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It's not always necessary to always try to get two Goodwill whenever we get one, but to run the numbers...

Let's assume that we put up the Runestone as an exhibit, on its own for lack of anything else to reasonably put alongside it. Let's also assume that we do this alongside Arabyan Scholars. Let's even generously assume that when put up on its own, all the minor tags the thing has actually score. That gives us something like:

Runestone: The Tide of Skjold - Centrepiece - History, Norsca, Asur, Khuresh, Magic, Religion
Central Themes: History 3, Magic 3, Norsca 3
Non-Central Themes: Asur 3, Khuresh 3, Religion 3
Awakening Interest: History 3, Magic 3
Sea Elves Interest: 0
Arabyan Interest: Magic 3
Luthor Harkon Interest: 0
Citadel of Dusk Interest: 0
Remaining Themes: Norsca 3, Asur 3, Khuresh 3, Religion 3
6+3+4 = 14 Interest

For reference, here's the exact score changes to our older exhibits:

Voyages of Haakon
Central Themes: Vampire 5, Piracy 5, Norsca 4
Major Themes: Age 4, History 4
Awakening Interest: History 4
Sea Elves Interest: 0
Arabyan Interest: Age 4
Luthor Harkon Interest: Vampiric Diaspora 5
Citadel of Dusk Interest: 0
Remaining Themes: Piracy 5, Norsca 4
4+4+15+3= 26 Interest (was 23)

Dangers of Lustria
Central Themes: Lustria 25, Trophy 15, Magic 5
Major Themes: Lizardmen 19
Minor Themes: Sea Beasts 6
Awakening Interest: Trophy 15, Magic 5
Sea Elves Interest: Sea Beasts 6
Arabyan Interest: Magic 5
Luthor Harkon Interest: None
Citadel of Dusk Interest: Lustrian Magic 5
Remaining Themes: Lustria 25, Lizardmen 19
20+6+5+15+14= 60 Interest (was 55)

So inviting the Arabyans is effectively +8 Interest on its own (not +9 since we were already getting partial value from Age on the Voyages), which jumps to +11 if combined with the Runestone. The Runestone is optimistically worth +11 interest on its own, +14 with the Arabyans. Combined, we'd be adding +22 Interest, which is exactly enough for +2 Goodwill.

...but it kind of feels like we're pushing it, there? It hasn't been explicitly spelled out just what makes themes count as Major or Minor. With the cut-down Voyages of Haakon, the Age and History tags qualified as Major Themes at 4 weight each, perhaps because we had multiple sources for each of Age and History. It might be the case that with a single relic exhibit, we just outright score the non-central tags as Minor Themes, but it also might be the case that they simply don't score.

When I pushed for the +2 Goodwill option for our Year 6 vote, I left enough margin for error such that the wiggle room wouldn't matter either way. Here, it makes or breaks the plan, which makes me slightly uncomfortable supporting it. I'd be more inclined to support a plan that simply grabbed the low-hanging fruit that the Arabyans represent (alongside the accompanying Goodwill), and then did some other acquisitions to guarantee a point of Goodwill next turn as well.

EDIT: Come to think of it... given the uncertainty caused by the wiggle room, this might be an excellent time for a Learn or Research Relic action. It's plausible that we might pick up a couple points of Interest if we got more understanding of some of our existing Relics, and Research Relic specifically on the Runestone might add enough value to help us squeak by.
 
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Well, with the clarification on Necromantic Diaspora, I am all for sending the Tide to go raiding some Brettonian Swamps for French Vampire Loot. Mousillon me mateys!

Also how many Harkons are there to investigate again? I know we've looked into one version and got a Death Mask for it, I crave a full set.

EDIT:

We've Investigated Haakon the Bloody. Once I am not at risk of double-posting, I make a post dedicated to charting our Luthor Investigations and Leads.
 
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Incidentally, having mentioned the Learning possibility, I made a quick list of our research leads (the mentions on each relic about what skill we'd need to learn more), weighted by relic value (ie: rare x2, centerpiece x3, as with exhibit scoring), then paired with our current best-applicable skill.

Lizardmen, 19, Surface
Lustria, 17, Detailed
Reptiles, 15, None
???, 6, None
Sea Beasts, 5, None
Norsca, 4, Detailed
Mutants, 4, None
Terraforming, 3, None
Shyish, 3, Detailed
Sea Gods, 3, None
Piracy, 3, None
Necromancy, 3, None
Naval Warfare, 3, None
Khuresh, 3, None
Gold Magic, 3, None
Alchemy, 3, None
Weaponry, 2, None
High Magic, 2, None
Siege Warfare, 1, None
Metallurgy, 1, None
Luthor Harkon, 1, None
Jewellry, 1, None
Jade Magic, 1, None
Flight, 1, None
Druchii, 1, None
Chaos, 1, None
Bright Magic, 1, None
Botany, 1, None
Beastmen, 1, None
Artisan Skills, 1, None
Architecture, 1, None
Amber Magic, 1, None

Given this list, we might theoretically gain a lot from increasing our knowledge of Lizardmen or Lustria, but the first would require the cooperation of an expert on the topic of Lizardmen, and the second would require hiring a world-class expert on the topic of Lustria, which makes both rather hard. Reptiles, on the other hand, are a topic that we have no specific info about, and which affects 15 points of relics. This makes it a low-hanging research fruit, and might make it worth spending a turn learning more, just like we did with Lizardmen.

Boney said:
The Siren-Wail of the Serpent Islands - Centerpiece - History, Piracy, Lustria, Magic
Detailed understanding (requires: Necromancy/Shyish/Terraforming)
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I notice that Shyish here stands out unusually from the other magical mentions, which are all described as (flavor) Magic. Is this deliberate, such that Pahtsekhen's own Death Magic doesn't apply? Or was the different name unintended, and Pahtsekhen's relevant skill simply the thing that's giving us Detailed Understanding of the Siren-Wail?
 
Talon TigerDino said:
Also how many Harkons are there to investigate again? I know we've looked into one version and got a Death Mask for it, I crave a full set.
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Going by the dice-rolls, 12. We've met Lutr of the Harkoni (number 1, pre-vampirism), Luthor Harkon the Pirate King (number 12, current), and Haakon the Bloody (number [?], the one we have a death mask for).

We also know a few more names: Luthor Harkon the Sorcerer (post-landing, pre-shattering), Luthor Harkon the Commodore (once he gathers his fleet), and Luther the Veilwalker, Arch-Warlock of Ostermark. At least one more will be his immediate post-vampire time in Lahmia (Lutr the Newblood?). How the others are divided is a ???. It's also possible Commodore/Pirate King are the same. The first third of the twelve we know go by Lutr rather than Luther/Luthor/Haakon.

Nobody has actually yet asked Boney for a full list of epithets - maybe just ask?
 
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Blackshard said:
Incidentally, having mentioned the Learning possibility, I made a quick list of our research leads (the mentions on each relic about what skill we'd need to learn more), weighted by relic value (ie: rare x2, centerpiece x3, as with exhibit scoring), then paired with our current best-applicable skill.

Lizardmen, 19, Surface
Lustria, 17, Detailed
Reptiles, 15, None
???, 6, None
Sea Beasts, 5, None
Norsca, 4, Detailed
Mutants, 4, None
Terraforming, 3, None
Shyish, 3, Detailed
Sea Gods, 3, None
Piracy, 3, None
Necromancy, 3, None
Naval Warfare, 3, None
Khuresh, 3, None
Gold Magic, 3, None
Alchemy, 3, None
Weaponry, 2, None
High Magic, 2, None
Siege Warfare, 1, None
Metallurgy, 1, None
Luthor Harkon, 1, None
Jewellry, 1, None
Jade Magic, 1, None
Flight, 1, None
Druchii, 1, None
Chaos, 1, None
Bright Magic, 1, None
Botany, 1, None
Beastmen, 1, None
Artisan Skills, 1, None
Architecture, 1, None
Amber Magic, 1, None

Given this list, we might theoretically gain a lot from increasing our knowledge of Lizardmen or Lustria, but the first would require the cooperation of an expert on the topic of Lizardmen, and the second would require hiring a world-class expert on the topic of Lustria, which makes both rather hard. Reptiles, on the other hand, are a topic that we have no specific info about, and which affects 15 points of relics. This makes it a low-hanging research fruit, and might make it worth spending a turn learning more, just like we did with Lizardmen.
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I am very hopeful for our young elven apprentice in this regard. Fingers crossed that Aenureir is able to pick up a variety of skillsets and knowledge that collectively amount to a major boost for the museum's current collection and flexibility of future collections.
 
@Boney 2 related questions:
I'm thinking about making a plan where the Tide of Skjold goes to both Tilea and Mousillon, is that possible time-wise? Regardless of that, would Anti-Vampire magics or Relics belonging to vampire-hunting orders count for the Vampiric affinity?
 
BrainInAJar said:
@Boney 2 related questions:
I'm thinking about making a plan where the Tide of Skjold goes to both Tilea and Mousillon, is that possible time-wise? Regardless of that, would Anti-Vampire magics or Relics belonging to vampire-hunting orders count for the Vampiric affinity?
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Expeditions are one at a time, and involve picking a destination and making a request. Two destinations imply two trips.
 
@Boney Having been the one to bring it up - after seven years as Luthor's subject, does Pahtsekhen have a grasp of the man's timeline of personality splits?

Also, one thing I've been a bit unclear on is exactly how disreputable a port needs to be that the Tide could expect to come in for trading rather than raiding. I understand that they're literally skeletons, that it's not exactly their specialty and that as soon as we get any other acquisitionist that they're the worse option for it. But we don't currently have any other acquisitionists. Could we send them to Port Reaver to trade, and expect them not to be immediately chased back out to sea? To Skeggi? To cosmopolitan Lothern? Or is it more 'Don't send skeletons to trade with people'?
 
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CornyBones said:
With the presence of the Runestone, it seems reasearching the Pearl of the Kraken Sea would make an interesting next beat in their story.

We should also see about getting a Sea Monster and religious expert of some kind, because its starting to come up and is important for providing the context for these sorts of bodies.
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That will be covered by Kraken Sea and the Tide of Skjold, since it was mentioned by Boney as a subject that will give us leads on the origins and birth of the Tide of Skjold. Plus there's some good faith involved here, given that Boney will look into the commentary and intentions behind an investigation.
Boney said:
'Creation of the Tide of Skjold'. 'Kraken Sea and Tide of Skjold'. 'The town of Skjold'. 'The Pearl of the Kraken Sea'. Any of those would do the job. If you're really worried about being misunderstood, elaborate further in the post where you first lay out the vote - if there's any ambiguity I go to the origin for an option and see if they said anything further about what was meant.

That said, investigations cast a wide net. Doing an investigation into the Tide would get you at least one option connected with their origin.
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Thought I'd do a little consideration using Gavin Prince's excellent summary of exhibit concepts to assess the Goodwill investment needed to make each of them plausible and effective. Feel free to correct me if people see different routes available - this should be the beginning of a discussion, not the end of it!
  • Norsca/Kraken Sea/Tide of Skjold - 0-1 Goodwill Depends on how badly we think we need a unifying theme between the sea beast skeletons and the items more specifically representing the Tide and their history. A theologian with interests in Sea Gods, Chaos or both would be ideal to bring the exhibit up to full impact but we could just declare Sea Beasts as one of the Central Themes and be done with it.
  • Lustrian Magic - 1 Goodwill We're going to need to tap the White Tower (or at least the Asur) for this one. High Magic knowledge is necessary to properly understand the Palanquin and I'm confident that further Lizardman magical relics are going to require the same or at least understanding of Wind magics. Getting a failed Archmage or the like on our staff will serve that requirement (though we'll need to be careful that they don't have reason to immediately give up Aenureir's location to the Swordmasters if they discover his bloodline).
  • Vampiric/Necromantic Necroturgic History - 1-2 Goodwill This is a longer-term project and it does show. While we can and should augment the collection by raiding for relics at places like Mousillon, we're going to need Lahmian artefacts to pull an exhibit of this kind off with any degree of credibility, which almost certainly means seeking a new Contact through Pahtsekhen for a reliable source of them. The question then becomes whether we want to stick purely to vampirism; looking into necromancy necroturgy in the fullest sense will require bringing on one of Paht's old students with that expertise as a member of staff.
  • Citadel of Dusk - 0-1 Goodwill Lots of unknowns with this one, the most notable being whether or not we need to spend a point of Goodwill on the centrepiece. If not, the only major obstacle is the number of actions needed to build up a collection more or less from scratch.
  • History/Admiralty of Awakening - 1 Goodwill Gavin's original post is quite right that the best way to get a centrepiece for this would be through Harkon himself, unless an assemblage of flags or codes counts as one! Other than that, Fjolnir's Authoritative knowledge on all matters Vampire Coast probably has us covered.
 
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