Part of my problem with your plan is raising Compassion too high.

What kinds of problems arise from having 'too much' compassion? IRL, I think tons of problems arise from having too little compassion, but somehow I think there is a difference here.

And unrelated to that, I'd like to go for Joy in Violence, both for the path to surprise negator and to see Taylor have some fun in fights, but I don't really see an IC reason for it. Anyone an idea here?

Advantage of Joy in Violence would be that it gives us a bonus when the fight first starts. The QM has said that if we had Joy in Violence, Oni Lee wouldn't have been able to hand our ass to us on the ship, which would appeal to Taylor (not dying is important). As for how to justify the mental effect, she could dip into black-and-white morality, in effect saying that the people who she fights are scumbags, so it's okay to enjoy fighting them.

Having written that, I realize just how easy it would be for Taylor to rationalize that mindset. In canon, she was scary good at believing her own lies when doing so made the rest of her life suck less.
 
There's always the angle I was pushing of Taylor trying to learn threat monitoring excitement but getting Joy In Violence approach unintentionally. Something to make Taylor realize that occasionally the problem solving tools Yozis give are weird and/or have mental side effects. It's not like Taylor would know all the particulars of a charm until she develops it after all. Does she know about what AVDB deals agg damage to?
 
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What kinds of problems arise from having 'too much' compassion? IRL, I think tons of problems arise from having too little compassion, but somehow I think there is a difference here.
Basically, you get compelled to spare the lives of defeated enemies(again, if you kill them in the heat of battle it's okay, you don't need to hold back, as long as you have a reasonable case for their being able to take it), fight injustice wherever you see it, always stand by your friends/lovers/family, etc. Violating this requires 1 willpower expended, and costs 1 Limit, which we must ablate by acts of villainy or Limit break.

It's inconvenient if you wish to be a Hard Man Making Hard Decisions, though I've yet to see that actually work out in Worm. :p
As for WHY I'm raising it? There is the enhanced non-charm dice(spend 1 willpower, add Compassion dice) we can add to just about anything that is fighting for love and justice, protecting or aiding friends and family, etc...

...and at Compassion 5, Taylor here has a charm unlocked to push it a step further. Define a greater good to work towards, and your concept of Compassion expands to be able to carry out actions leading towards the greater good, even if it requires lesser violations of Compassion. Oh and it turns the (Compassion) dice added into (Compassion) successes, turning 1 willpower point into basically 10 dice worth of boost.

And more minor elements, it has synergy with Freedom Lets Go(a charm we already have, to delete an intimacy we choose not to care about anymore to recover compassion channels) and Tragic Love Amusement(we don't have it, and Taylor is unlikely to get it at present, which allows us to instantly become obsessive over a person, and be able to use Compassion to both harm and aid them)
 
Basically, you get compelled to spare the lives of defeated enemies(again, if you kill them in the heat of battle it's okay, you don't need to hold back, as long as you have a reasonable case for their being able to take it), fight injustice wherever you see it, always stand by your friends/lovers/family, etc. Violating this requires 1 willpower expended, and costs 1 Limit, which we must ablate by acts of villainy or Limit break.

And these are bad things? I cannot think of any IC reason that Taylor would not be all about this, and you already mentioned the only reason it might be a problem, and, personally, I think that's a good thing.

It's inconvenient if you wish to be a Hard Man Making Hard Decisions, though I've yet to see that actually work out in Worm.

My thoughts exactly. I think part of the reason that Earth Bet is so messed up is that it is full of people "doing the wrong things for the right reasons" instead of just doing the right things.

The real life downsides of compassion are nullified by the fact that we have Freedom Lets Go and that we are an Exalted.
 
And these are bad things? I cannot think of any IC reason that Taylor would not be all about this, and you already mentioned the only reason it might be a problem, and, personally, I think that's a good thing.
Given the amount of injustice on Earth Bet, that means eating a lot of Limit. Limit Breaking on even a semi-regular basis is not something I'm desiring to read about in the least.
 
And these are bad things? I cannot think of any IC reason that Taylor would not be all about this, and you already mentioned the only reason it might be a problem, and, personally, I think that's a good thing.
The only issue is that when it says "fight injustice wherever you see it", it means if you see something happening in front of you, you have to suppress it to not go jump in and stop it RIGHT NOW, NO DELAYS. This leads to problems with not being in costume, or trying to stay in stealth so you can take down more criminals safely and thoroughly, or (given Brocton Bay), ever taking the time to plan and enact anything personal or long term.
 
Can't think of any of these we want to urgently raise. Maybe more bureaucracy. We still got the lawsuit.
Agree. Bureaucracy is about the only relevant ability right now.

Of the virtues:
-Compassion 3->4 - Reaffirming heroism. More dice to throw for fighting or protesting injustice, more room for social links.
Becomes actually useful for channeling, as 4 dice > 1 success in a significant manner. The compels becomes somewhat more severe though, but we have them already so...

-Conviction 2->3 - Not Hard Enough. Warning: Will begin to trap us between Compassion and Conviction compels if raised, forcing us to gain Limit no matter what.

-Temperance 2->3 - We were too reckless, perhaps developing caution would help? Unfortunately Temperance is the virtue that's the hardest to channel.

-Valor 2->3 - Too fearful, we need more Guts. Warning: Valor compels will begin to generate conflict with Wards choice and promise to Danny.
Eh, you can always spend WP to autosucceed on Valor checks if that's really a concern. And Taylor should be moving out of the realm where your standard parahuman constitutes peer threat pretty damn quick. Honestly I'd rather have Taylor needing to spend WP on Valor checks than I am spending XP on something that compels her to respond with violence to people that try to pick fights.

* Remember, one of the things that prompts a Valor roll is getting insulted; you have to fail a valor check to not seek retribution. *

Temperance remains my favorite virtue due to what high Temperance says about a persons character. Sure, mechanically it's hard to channel. So what. It's very fluffy and fits our in-character decisions.

-[] Train Perception

The most fundamental way of avoiding surprise, and ambush. To fully apply our bug senses and our beam attack. Very little beats simply paying attention better.
Well assuming we can train it along with a charm.

-[] Train Death-Dealing Journey

Already debated for a while. Taylor doesn't lack raw defense or paranoia combat suite so much as she lacks a way to defend herself AND still strike back at enemies. This is essential if you're using many Adorjan charms, and we have at the least, the perfect defense relying on this.
Assuming the QM says we can train both, I have no major objections to getting both Perception and a charm.

Probably hadn't accounted for all the discussion in between since I'm at work and on mobile. Mutation discussion likewise(I think it's for Tomescu Flesh Extravagance/By Rage Recast?).
Yeah, mostly just detailing what mutations are appropriate for TFE and what's worth getting for BRR.

If you can find the mutation that lets us flat-out ignore fire damage, that'd be great.
 
If you can find the mutation that lets us flat-out ignore fire damage, that'd be great.
Even Fire Adaptation (CoCD:W) doesn't prevent fire-based DOT effects. It would be easier to get Taylor to come to terms with Cece, then combine TDC, Mother Sea Mastery, and Skyfire-Seizing Repast into a heretical charm that approximates the effects of Element-Resisting Prana + Steadfast Elemental Emperor Stance.
 
Even Fire Adaptation (CoCD:W) doesn't prevent fire-based DOT effects. It would be easier to get Taylor to come to terms with Cece, then combine TDC, Mother Sea Mastery, and Skyfire-Seizing Repast into a heretical charm that approximates the effects of Element-Resisting Prana + Steadfast Elemental Emperor Stance.
FOAM-DANCING HASTE
Cost: —; Mins: Essence 2; Type: Permanent
Keywords: None
Duration: Permanent
Prerequisite Charms: Unimpeded Perfection of Exertion
Adorjan darts over rivers of blood without sinking into
them. She is above wallowing in gore, so this Charm further
enhances the functional weightlessness afforded by its prerequisite
to cover liquid surfaces. If the Infernal begins a dash
while swimming on the surface, she may continue to swim or
nimbly climb atop the liquid and run on it. If she continues
to swim, she dashes at the same speed as if running.
Additionally, the Exalt suffers no environmental harm
associated with any dangerous conditions she traverses. This
immunity does not defend against environmental hazards that
aren't associated with the surface she dashes on or through.
With Essence 4+, she is immune to all environmental hazards
and penalties while dashing, even those unrelated to the
medium of her journey.
 
SESS also prevents damage from environmental attacks, such as, y'know, thermite. FDH doesn't do that, but it would be another suitable prerequisite for the heretical charm.

ELEMENT-RESISTING PRANA
Cost: —; Mins: Survival 5, Essence 3; Type: Permanent
Keywords: None
Duration: Permanent
Prerequisite Charms: Hardship-Surviving Mendicant Spirit
This Charm enhances the character's Hardship-Surviving Mendicant Spirit. When using that Charm, the character now becomes immune to environmental hazards. She can survive in a bonfire, underwater, in a volcano's caldera or in a pool of boiling acid, all with ease. She takes damage or suffers Poison, Crippling or Sickness effects only when directly inflicted upon her by some character's action.

Element-Resisting Prana (Errata)
(p. 210)
Environmental damage inflicted via Charms, spells, etc. are replicating natural environmental damage, but it isn't actually natural. These are supernatural assaults that are directly inflicted upon characters. So, for example, Dragon Vortex Attack would, in fact, be able to inflict damage to someone under the aegis of Element-Resisting Prana.

STEADFAST ELEMENTAL EMPEROR STANCE
Cost: —; Mins: Survival 5, Essence 3;
Type: Permanent
Keywords: Mirror (Surviving the Sunlit Lands)
Duration: Permanent
Prerequisite Charms: Element-Resisting Prana
This Charm upgrades its prerequisite, removing the clause for other characters' deliberate actions. Hardship-Surviving Mendicant Spirit now renders the Solar immune to all environmental damage, regardless of its origin.
[text of Abyssal mirror follows]
 
Yes, I considered that as well. It was indeed pretty hard to pick between training Perception and training War, but Perception covers ambushes, our primary ranged weapon, reading body language, sensing through the swarm/touchsight, etc. War covers fighting as part of a team, fighting with our bugs, fighting AGAINST a team, etc.

So I thought it'd be more narratively appropriate to focus on paying more attention to her surroundings after being ambushed by Oni Lee twice over, and to leave War training for when we join the Wards and take part in their group training. Aside from Perception being slower to train than War as well of course, we'd need to start sooner to see an improvement.

Ultimately: Buy a bit more Perception(2 dots would be quite a lot really, I'd probably settle for 1), and over time, buy a lot more War.
War is also the cap for combat-based plan steps for Every Last Detail. Right now, if we purchase that, we can't use it to plan fights, because we have a cap of zero steps.

War 1 lets us do the following:

Plan to Kill the Cyber Demon
Step 1: Shoot it until it dies.
 
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There's always the angle I was pushing of Taylor trying to learn threat monitoring excitement but getting Joy In Violence approach unintentionally. Something to make Taylor realize that occasionally the problem solving tools Yozis give are weird and/or have mental side effects. It's not like Taylor would know all the particulars of a charm until she develops it after all. Does she know about what AVDB deals agg damage to?
Yes, but only abstractly. She doesn't understand precisely what an Anomaly is. And she only understands that capability for an increased damage mode because she had Essence-Dissecting Touch up when she used it.
 
@veekie I think holding off on Compassion 4 until we've got the Compassion martial arts style might be a good idea, at least until later

@Thief of Words
Can we train War with other stuff since we have QA's multitasking, and our insect control falls under War.
 
OK, how do training slots work? Can we train multiple charms as long as they're sufficiently justified? Actually, could you just give the specifics on how training slots work, please?

This is experimental in the "Is my spaghetti done" sort of manner. But essentially, I'm letting us use multitasking ability from QA for mental attribute/ability/charm training. Meaning: could train multiple mental things at once if sufficiently justified. Can train mental things while training physical things so long as the training for the mental things doesn't require access to a physical resource which interferes with the physical thing.

I reiterate that this is an experiment. I've never run a quest before, and in the past I usually waived training times as having occurred during down time in a campaign (with the exception of raising Essence, which required a training montage and downtime, or the completion of a Motivation). Speaking of. Taylor still lacks an epic Motivation. That...might be something to fix.
 
This is experimental in the "Is my spaghetti done" sort of manner. But essentially, I'm letting us use multitasking ability from QA for mental attribute/ability/charm training. Meaning: could train multiple mental things at once if sufficiently justified. Can train mental things while training physical things so long as the training for the mental things doesn't require access to a physical resource which interferes with the physical thing.

I reiterate that this is an experiment. I've never run a quest before, and in the past I usually waived training times as having occurred during down time in a campaign (with the exception of raising Essence, which required a training montage and downtime, or the completion of a Motivation). Speaking of. Taylor still lacks an epic Motivation. That...might be something to fix.
Doin' just fine, if ya don't mind me sayin'.

RE: Motivation, I think our Urge is sufficiently epic and also conveniently aligned with what we actually want to do. Always nice for an Infernal when those two align.

Hmm. So. Things I think we can train while meeting the requirements listed above for purely mental training:
- Perception. Noticing shit, training ourselves to quickly pick out details. Simple.
- Tomescu Flesh Extravaganza. Mulling over the nature of a Tomescu and our relationship with Uncertainty.
- Joy In Violence Approach. Analyze how vulnerable people are when talking, plan out how to attack if we needed to escalate to violence. Like, "If Dad were suddenly Mastered into attacking me, how would I disable him without hurting him?" Can combine with Perception training by scanning the environment for combat advantage (feeds War too).
- Insignificant Embers Intuition. Taylor is watching you. Silently. Judging you.
- War. This one's tricky since instead of focusing on troops we mentally train this by focusing on terrain and the environment and how that would be a dis/advantage in combat. Choke points, high ground, cover, etc.

I have a hard time convincing myself that we can mentally train the other stuff. So, with that in mind, here's the proposed training regimen:

Physical
Death Dealing Journey

Mental
Joy In Violence Approach
Perception
War

These three work well together since they're all about analyzing details for advantage. All told, these choices tell the story of how Taylor has learned from her encounter with Oni Lee that she needs to be much more wary of her surroundings, that she needs to have plan of action because she could get jumped at any moment.
 
What kinds of problems arise from having 'too much' compassion? IRL, I think tons of problems arise from having too little compassion, but somehow I think there is a difference here.
Baughn ran a Solar quest some time ago, one of the side-characters was Kuroi Matou of the Black Rock Shooter Anime. She was Compassion 6 and completely unable to... well, have the conversation on her I had with Baughn in the thread:
[X] Admitting you were a broken shell of what a person is supposed to be until recently is one thing. Admitting you might be an active danger to your own family? You can't do it. The old you would have admitted it in a heartbeat to keep them safe... but you don't want to lose your family. And now she's asking you to watch him when you almost shot him a few minutes ago... You really don't know whether to laugh or cry.
-[X] "... Sorry. I just... I guess I'm not going to get used to having everything back that quickly, am I."
--[X] And you need to get that lock today. You can't risk Hiro or even Mom getting char br- Lock. Today. You will protect them, even from yourself.

Matou would have been horrified that she hurt someone, now she's horrified that she almost hurt her brother. Before, she couldn't even care of things in terms of her possessing them at all, only that other people might get hurt. She cared about others with no sense of self or emotion involved at all. Now, now she cares because they are her friends, her family, her town and so on. And she doesn't want to give them up either, something the old her would have done.

The only part I'm unsure on is if her Compassion 6 would have forced her to care about their feelings or their well-being more. So this will probably get changed more than a bit after it gets torn to shreds criticized.
Matou? Feelings. Rock? Physical wellbeing, should she have the opportunity.

They're both horrified by what almost happened, though using "both" is of course inaccurate. More on that later.

The old her... Yes, she would have given them up. In a heartbeat, if necessary. She wouldn't even be very upset about it. However, she most certainly had emotions.

Some emotions. The ones she thought were acceptable.

Matou would be hurting her families feelings by giving them up to keep them safe though. And if I'm reading your version of Rock right she literally can't care about people beyond her Motivation with her only having Valor 4 and Conviction 4.

One of the updates had Rock mentioning it would be a few days at most until they fully fused, so... *Shrug* Kind of expected that I guess.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking as well. Can't even care about herself, surprisingly easy for me to understand that thought process with some logic and my apathy issues.

The virtue ratings are an approximation at best, but in this case, it's simple enough.

Rock would defend any one of them, against anything not too terribly dangerous-and she has a loose definition of danger-because they're hers and no-one else is allowed to hurt them.

Matou is the one who cares about their opinion on the matter. Combine the two, however...

And you might actually get the average human. Whee... :V

Anyway, if I'm interpreting you right, my write-in is pretty much in-character if not spot on... at least on the thought processes.

Not exactly average. Compassion three still leaves her an unusually nice girl, just not with a messiah complex anymore.

That said? Yep, it's a good interpretation.

I didn't want to tag Baughn, so I removed all that and just left them as plain quote boxes.

That said, compassion 6 for this character might be very different from Taylor. *Shrug*
 
I'd say...
Raise Occult, Bureaucracy, train War, Train CCC, buy Every Last Detail

Occult, because her presently only offensive powers (MHM and the beam) use it, War for planning and insects, train CCC because you 'know' she's going to get trapped again, and it's probably one of her fears after everything.

[] Plan Whatever you want to call it
-[] Train War
-[] Purchase Every Last Detail - 4 XP
-[] Purchase Occult 1->2 - 4 XP
-[] Purchase Bureaucracy 2->3 - 4 XP
-[] Train Cracked Cell Circumvention
-[] Train Perception
-[] Train Joy in Violence Approach
 
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Baughn ran a Solar quest some time ago, one of the side-characters was Kuroi Matou of the Black Rock Shooter Anime. She was Compassion 6 and completely unable to... well, have the conversation on her I had with Baughn in the thread:











I didn't want to tag Baughn, so I removed all that and just left them as plain quote boxes.

That said, compassion 6 for this character might be very different from Taylor. *Shrug*
Yeah...that Devil-Tiger that was mentioned by Uncertainty previously?

...she was/is Compassion 6 and Valor 5. She...might have all the Virtues at 5.

And a charm specifically intended to bypass the fact that omnivirtuousness + moral quandary = one of the quickest ways to get Will-tapped if you don't live the life of a hermit. It does still cost a point of limit. She does still have to abide by one of conflicted the virtues.



Her Torment is in fact a contagious variant of Compassionate Martyrdom.

EDIT:

Also, her Ascendency Mantle kinda stops working if she suppresses Compassion, so....yeah.
 
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Yeah...that Devil-Tiger that was mentioned by Uncertainty previously?

...she was/is Compassion 6 and Valor 5. She...might have all the Virtues at 5.

And a charm specifically intended to bypass the fact that omnivirtuousness + moral quandary = one of the quickest ways to get Will-tapped if you don't live the life of a hermit. It does still cost a point of limit. She does still have to abide by one of conflicted the virtues.

Her Torment is in fact a contagious variant of Compassionate Martyrdom.
Yeah, any Virtue at 6 is "You are literally insane" although most characters/people would probably be thinking/saying about the character at virtue 5.

More than one? Yikes.
 
Yeah, any Virtue at 6 is "You are literally insane" although most characters/people would probably be thinking/saying about the character at virtue 5.

More than one? Yikes.
Transcendent Valor and a personally omni-compassionate variant of Cosmic Transcendence of Compassion (with Legendary Compassion), rather than a utilitarian one.

She's currently spent the last 5k years attempting to fix the Yozis.
 
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War is also the cap for combat-based plan steps for Every Last Detail. Right now, if we purchase that, we can't use it to plan fights, because we have a cap of zero steps.

I believe you are describing the limitations of Just As Planned rather than Every Last Detail.

EVERY LAST DETAIL
Cost: — ; Mins: Essence 2; Type: Permanent

Keywords: None

Duration: Permanent

Prerequisite Charms: Factual Determination Analysis

It is better to be safe than sorry, and the Principle of Hierarchy lacks room for regret. This Charm enhances the Infernal, allowing her to ignore internal penalties to planning rolls, and carry any threshold successes from the planning phase of a project onto its actual enactment. Additionally, she treats time spent planning (or otherwise making preparations for future action) as time spent sleeping for the purposes of relieving fatigue and respiring motes, the act of shaping the world into usable patterns soothing her mind and body.


Her ability to respond to unpredictable thought-patterns is reduced, however, reducing her MDVs by (Essence ÷ 2) against social influence that runs contrary to an intimacy she possesses towards that character; an intimidation attempt from a friend, for example.

JUST AS PLANNED
Cost: 1m; Mins: Essence 2; Type: Simple (Dramatic action)

Keywords: Combo-OK

Duration: Indefinite

Prerequisite Charms: Every Last Detail

The Pyre in Which Thoughts are Burned is a searchbeam light of calculation that cuts through the future's haze. This Charm is a dramatic action of one hour which the Infernal spends devising a plan consisting of two parts. A goal, which may range from "overthrow the Realm" to "make breakfast", and steps, intermediary goals that must meaningfully contribute to the actual goal, in such a way that when they are complete the goal will definitionally have been achieved. She may have a number of steps equal to her (Bureaucracy or War), as appropriate to the plan's nature, and immediately acquires a secondary Willpower pool, capable of holding up to (Steps) points. The pool is initially full, but can only be refilled through stunts that directly contribute to the Infernal's plan, and can only be spent in ways that do the same.


This Charm ends when the goal is achieved, transferring its remaining Willpower into the Exalt's normal pool; any excess is lost. Whenever one of the steps in the Infernal's plan is rendered impossible or irrelevant to her goal, she gains one Limit. Ending this Charm prematurely inflicts Limit equal to the remaining steps and wastes any unspent Willpower. This Charm automatically ends if the Infernal enters Torment.
 
I believe you are describing the limitations of Just As Planned rather than Every Last Detail.

EVERY LAST DETAIL
Cost: — ; Mins: Essence 2; Type: Permanent

Keywords: None

Duration: Permanent

Prerequisite Charms: Factual Determination Analysis

It is better to be safe than sorry, and the Principle of Hierarchy lacks room for regret. This Charm enhances the Infernal, allowing her to ignore internal penalties to planning rolls, and carry any threshold successes from the planning phase of a project onto its actual enactment. Additionally, she treats time spent planning (or otherwise making preparations for future action) as time spent sleeping for the purposes of relieving fatigue and respiring motes, the act of shaping the world into usable patterns soothing her mind and body.


Her ability to respond to unpredictable thought-patterns is reduced, however, reducing her MDVs by (Essence ÷ 2) against social influence that runs contrary to an intimacy she possesses towards that character; an intimidation attempt from a friend, for example.

JUST AS PLANNED
Cost: 1m; Mins: Essence 2; Type: Simple (Dramatic action)

Keywords: Combo-OK

Duration: Indefinite

Prerequisite Charms: Every Last Detail

The Pyre in Which Thoughts are Burned is a searchbeam light of calculation that cuts through the future's haze. This Charm is a dramatic action of one hour which the Infernal spends devising a plan consisting of two parts. A goal, which may range from "overthrow the Realm" to "make breakfast", and steps, intermediary goals that must meaningfully contribute to the actual goal, in such a way that when they are complete the goal will definitionally have been achieved. She may have a number of steps equal to her (Bureaucracy or War), as appropriate to the plan's nature, and immediately acquires a secondary Willpower pool, capable of holding up to (Steps) points. The pool is initially full, but can only be refilled through stunts that directly contribute to the Infernal's plan, and can only be spent in ways that do the same.


This Charm ends when the goal is achieved, transferring its remaining Willpower into the Exalt's normal pool; any excess is lost. Whenever one of the steps in the Infernal's plan is rendered impossible or irrelevant to her goal, she gains one Limit. Ending this Charm prematurely inflicts Limit equal to the remaining steps and wastes any unspent Willpower. This Charm automatically ends if the Infernal enters Torment.
Whoops. So I am.
 
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