In Thunder's Echo (Legend of the Five Rings Quest)

Well, realistically, we did pretty well by our game goals...
- The Matsu thing is a lock,
-- They owe the scorpion pretty seriously on matters of honor.
-- They've promised to accept a Scorpion embassy
-- They're planning to invite in a bunch of Scorpion Magistrates
-- We died honorably enough that they have no reason to retract these things.
-- Our spy ring in Shiro Matsu is likely doing quite well for itself

- The Lying Darkness (who we hate) took a serious blow here.
-- No convenient war
-- The word about Jade and Crystal is known at least as far as the Scorpion (who are pretty sure to reveal it at the appropriate time)
-- Rokugan in general knows that they exist and are messing with important letters

- The Commercial aspect... is kind of uncertain. Yogo Hanzo may or may not live through the season. If he does, and our pet ninja does, then they can probably cobble together something resembling a decent attempt at commerce. The Mantis and the Unicorn, on the other hand, are horked here, and they'd be our main competition.
-- For the mantis, they've taken a massive honor hit here. The Yoritomo is reasonably likely to commit seppuku, leaving them with no one who can meaningfully do the courtier thing, no one actually of their clan, and the court generally disliking them. Add that to the bit where they lost the Bowman's Wager, and they basically have nothing.
--- On top of that, they pulled the Crab in on their dark dealings. The Crab are going to be somewhat desperate to avoid the taint surrounding the Mantis/Unicorn... sharpened a bit by the letter we just sent them. They'll probably be more inclined to trade through the Scorpion, and might not gouge us *too* badly.
-- The damage to the Unicorn might be lesser - particularly if they manage successfully to play "seven seconds to think like a Matsu" in response to this - but there are still going to be reparations there, and they've already lost at least one of their own to the infiltration. In a broader sense, they're likely to be pretty thoroughly investigated as a Clan... which is going to make the Kolat sweat.

- The political situation of the Scorpion as a whole has been helped considerably.
-- We've successfully pushed that "emperor's Under Hand" thing at least a bit, and sent back home ammo to do more. On top of that, there's a known shadowy infiltrating opponent or two that have been brought out into the light enough to help justify our existence.
-- Both the Lion and the Crane have reason to appreciate what we've done here. The Lion are glad they weren't pulled into a dishonorable war, and the Crane are glad that they weren't pulled into a war at all.
-- The Emperor has reason to appreciate our peacemongering ways, and his representative here (if he survives) is personally motivated to present us in a good light.


As for rampant speculation....

Who wants to bet that Hanzo reacts to this by firing off a Ward of Purity? After all, it's an obvious way to attack the known tainted creature in the room. If it happens to reveal any other tainted creatures... well, that's not his fault. Today could turn into a *Grand* old purge. Probably a pretty high body count when all is said and done - but Matsu tendencies, and the fact that the room is full of them, mean that any that *are* revealed as tainted are likely to get swarmed by them, reducing the death toll in plot-significant characters.

...He always *had* wanted to take the fight to the Tainted. The opportunity is probably pretty satisfying for him, all things considered.
 
On one hand, this was a disappointing way to end the Quest, and I'm really sad that we didn't get to see things through.

On the other hand, the epilogue post with the fallout from this is going to be delicious. With a single stroke of his sword, Soshi has fucked over the Lying Darkness.
 
So, as I'm unfamiliar with Legend of the Five Rings, how did things develop in canon compared to how they are here?
 
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If we get a sequel I know who we should play, at least!

Who here doesn't like the idea of being a little murderwaif heimin-turned-ninja serving the Scorpion? I think Wren would be pretty interesting a protagonist.
 
Well, realistically, we did pretty well by our game goals...
- The Matsu thing is a lock,
-- They owe the scorpion pretty seriously on matters of honor.
-- They've promised to accept a Scorpion embassy
-- They're planning to invite in a bunch of Scorpion Magistrates
-- We died honorably enough that they have no reason to retract these things.
-- Our spy ring in Shiro Matsu is likely doing quite well for itself

- The Lying Darkness (who we hate) took a serious blow here.
-- No convenient war
-- The word about Jade and Crystal is known at least as far as the Scorpion (who are pretty sure to reveal it at the appropriate time)
-- Rokugan in general knows that they exist and are messing with important letters

- The Commercial aspect... is kind of uncertain. Yogo Hanzo may or may not live through the season. If he does, and our pet ninja does, then they can probably cobble together something resembling a decent attempt at commerce. The Mantis and the Unicorn, on the other hand, are horked here, and they'd be our main competition.
-- For the mantis, they've taken a massive honor hit here. The Yoritomo is reasonably likely to commit seppuku, leaving them with no one who can meaningfully do the courtier thing, no one actually of their clan, and the court generally disliking them. Add that to the bit where they lost the Bowman's Wager, and they basically have nothing.
--- On top of that, they pulled the Crab in on their dark dealings. The Crab are going to be somewhat desperate to avoid the taint surrounding the Mantis/Unicorn... sharpened a bit by the letter we just sent them. They'll probably be more inclined to trade through the Scorpion, and might not gouge us *too* badly.
-- The damage to the Unicorn might be lesser - particularly if they manage successfully to play "seven seconds to think like a Matsu" in response to this - but there are still going to be reparations there, and they've already lost at least one of their own to the infiltration. In a broader sense, they're likely to be pretty thoroughly investigated as a Clan... which is going to make the Kolat sweat.

- The political situation of the Scorpion as a whole has been helped considerably.
-- We've successfully pushed that "emperor's Under Hand" thing at least a bit, and sent back home ammo to do more. On top of that, there's a known shadowy infiltrating opponent or two that have been brought out into the light enough to help justify our existence.
-- Both the Lion and the Crane have reason to appreciate what we've done here. The Lion are glad they weren't pulled into a dishonorable war, and the Crane are glad that they weren't pulled into a war at all.
-- The Emperor has reason to appreciate our peacemongering ways, and his representative here (if he survives) is personally motivated to present us in a good light.


As for rampant speculation....

Who wants to bet that Hanzo reacts to this by firing off a Ward of Purity? After all, it's an obvious way to attack the known tainted creature in the room. If it happens to reveal any other tainted creatures... well, that's not his fault. Today could turn into a *Grand* old purge. Probably a pretty high body count when all is said and done - but Matsu tendencies, and the fact that the room is full of them, mean that any that *are* revealed as tainted are likely to get swarmed by them, reducing the death toll in plot-significant characters.

...He always *had* wanted to take the fight to the Tainted. The opportunity is probably pretty satisfying for him, all things considered.
Also, the way we screwed over the Lying Darkness here is probably one of the best possible ways that we could have taken revenge for the Crane Delegation, and Damon poetic to boot. They will likely be making plays out of it for quite a while... :p
 
Also, the way we screwed over the Lying Darkness here is probably one of the best possible ways that we could have taken revenge for the Crane Delegation, and Damon poetic to boot. They will likely be making plays out of it for quite a while... :p
Mostly the Shosuro and man they are going to have fun with this one. What a great tool that they can use to smack basically everyone else in the face.

Naoto, serving his Clan even in death.
 
So, as I'm unfamiliar with Legend of the Five Rings, how did things develop in canon compared to how they are here?

The Lying Darkness was able to remain hidden for much longer, IIRC, and was able to brew a whole lot of dissent, including kidnapping Toturi (and framing the Scorpion) and then driving him mad for a fairly significant period.

Came pretty close to ending everything, but now there's a major wrench in the plans.
 
Among other things, there's a decent chance we'll have non-corrupt Toturi on the throne for a while. That's a pretty big deal.
 
Meh. It's fine. I get what happened and to tell it true none here thought we would be facing a Nothing Assasin. We just did not think of it. So I do not think I would have spent the free raise unless someone reminded me. My only issue with this is we went from, yes we want to duel, into the duel in one post.

Usually before battle there was one post where we could plan out our Void Points and strategy for the match. Here:
How do you respond?
[ ] Accept the challenge (will begin an Iaijutsu duel against Kakita Sekawa)
[ ] Forfeit, and yield your right to stand as Mariko's champion.
[ ] Write in

That "will begin an Iaijutsu duel against Kakita Sekawa" is the kind of thing I expected before we were actually fighting. The only reason this felt sudden was because we did not even know who we would fight and suddenly we were fighting them. No plan no time to react. I think there was time for a post in between while they were fetching our sword and after we know our opponent, but it is a minor quibble. Anyhow, good quest @Maugan Ra ,I had fun it. See you on the flip side.
 
Maybe there's a chance that the Toturi Dynasty will get to endure this time around.

Various butterflies...
- Madness of Toturi is much less likely.
-- no Scorpion Exile (Yay!)
--- no Triumphant Return of Shinjo (Boo)
---- no purging of the Unicorn (More Boo)
-- Keeping peace with the Naga for at least a while longer
--- Lion not punished and humbled
-- Kolat not nearly so openly discussed. Also, lots of people not executed
-- Lord Moon may or may not be killed, with associated potential changes to celestial alignments
-- Toturi has no need to kill himself
--- No Empress Regent Oracle of the Void Kaede (probably)
---- No Dark Oracles

Beyond that point, there are far too many butterflies to even speculate.
 
So it ended?

In one hand, that's a bummer. I really liked the quest and how things developed. Truly a good example of how to Courtier and how to Scorpion, right here. Pulling something like this didn't really feel out of the sudden if you consider we made of the Lying Darkness a huge enemy. The same Darkness that killed our superior.

In the other hand, we went down with a BANG so yeah, I'm satisfied. Earth x2 is basically high lethality mode and we were warned that the quest would end the moment Naoto hit the sack.

Truly an amazing work, @Maugan Ra. I take my straw hat at ya. Looking forward to that epilogue and what you bring next.
 
I mean I'm fairly certain if I did go back and do a different L5R Quest it would involve an alternate setting anyway.

I'm inordinately fond of the Empire of Emerald Stars option from IH2, for example.

Neutronium power-katanas and orbital jade bombardment cannons have a certain ridiculous charm to them, after all.
 
I mean I'm fairly certain if I did go back and do a different L5R Quest it would involve an alternate setting anyway.

I'm inordinately fond of the Empire of Emerald Stars option from IH2, for example.

Neutronium power-katanas and orbital jade bombardment cannons have a certain ridiculous charm to them, after all.
Let's finish playing East Indian Company in Space First shall we :V
 
I mean I'm fairly certain if I did go back and do a different L5R Quest it would involve an alternate setting anyway.

I'm inordinately fond of the Empire of Emerald Stars option from IH2, for example.

Neutronium power-katanas and orbital jade bombardment cannons have a certain ridiculous charm to them, after all.
No Emperor Quest?
 
"You are Toturi I! Who do you want to help look after your daughter?

[ ] The Seppun Guard, trained to protect the Imperial Family
[ ] These eight Samurai from all the Great Clans, who are fresh out of their Gempukku"

:p
Ironically if I had the time I'd probably running an Emperor Quest albeit, it'd be the entirely fictional Toturi IV not I...
 
Well fuck.

Looking back Maugan does have a point about us playing this badly. Our politicing was fine but we got two separate signs that the Nothing was working here and we just sort of treated them as random events. This wasn't a politics quest, it was a mystery/investigation masquerading as a politics quest and I think not realising that is what killed Naoto.
 
My first reaction to the update was being incredibly irritated. I've since largely come around, since everyone pointing out that the thematic (and mechanical) nature of L5R supports this kind of outcome aren't wrong, but I'm still not totally on-board with it all...

Personally, I think it's something of a legitimate grievance to be annoyed here that we weren't offered a chance to assess whether or not we wanted to spend Void, free raises, etc after the vote decided that we would be entering into a duel, but before we began it. The mechanics of achieving a consensus in forum posting can be fiddly at times, and often people will want to hammer out specifics once we've already established what we're going to do.

Additionally, when we decided to champion Mariko (which was later retracted due to the Kakita face-off), the duel didn't go down immediately on the spot like it did here; while I don't presume to know what anyone else was thinking, some people may very well have voted thinking it wouldn't be the last choice they were allowed on the matter.
 
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Well fuck.

Looking back Maugan does have a point about us playing this badly. Our politicing was fine but we got two separate signs that the Nothing was working here and we just sort of treated them as random events. This wasn't a politics quest, it was a mystery/investigation masquerading as a politics quest and I think not realising that is what killed Naoto.

The thing is, it was both, and the way Rokugan politics work the courtly wheeling and dealing had just as much a chance of killing Naoto as the Nothing.

Not saying we dintdo nuthin wrong, obvious in hindsight is obvious...but I think what killed us is nobody expected this degree of finesse out of the Nothing.

That is, the Crane Clan altered orders were pretty blatant and on the nose. "Yeah, that whole Play nice? Forget that, poke the Lions with a stick and see what happens". Same thing for the attack on Bayushi Kimiko and framing Naoto for it.

It was underhanded but it was a brute force kinda underhanded, if that makes sense?

Whereas its last play used the Mantis as a proxy to bait and switch us into a duel with the Unicorn, who'd pretty much flown under everybody's radar the whole time.

And because we weren't expecting that degree of finesse (which we should have been, Faceless Man shenanigans kind of a tip off that you can't be too paranoid) we got what happened here today.
 
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