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In Thunder's Echo (Legend of the Five Rings Quest)

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Da Boyz said:
It goes without saying that we aren't picking this. We are supposedly a capable enough killer to take down our lord, this means that a higher ranking Lion (Maybe even Ketsui herself) would be the one to accept the duel. And as romantic as our eyes meeting over blades would be it'd be far less so when we're being tortured to death.
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That's....not how it works

The Gunso wears his own swords and would be obligated to fight his own duels
 
storybookknight said:
That will undoubtedly be the official explanation if we choose to investigate ourselves. If we duel, we accuse the gunso of actually lying - and if we win we would be proven correct.
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For that matter, Chad raises a good point.

if the Gunso saw "us" leaving the quarters after the deed was wrong, why they didn't try to stop "us"? This seems like it was deliberate, and more important; this could be said it's a failure of the Matsu hosts to guarantee the safety of their guests.
 
Da Boyz said:
It goes without saying that we aren't picking this. We are supposedly a capable enough killer to take down our lord, this means that a higher ranking Lion (Maybe even Ketsui herself) would be the one to accept the duel. And as romantic as our eyes meeting over blades would be it'd be far less so when we're being tortured to death.
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No, we would get to face the gunso directly. He is a bushi and carries his own blade, therefore he must meet any challenges himself.

Still a bad option because of the ill will it would generate, but less than immediately suicidal.
 
Da Boyz said:
It goes without saying that we aren't picking this. We are supposedly a capable enough killer to take down our lord, this means that a higher ranking Lion (Maybe even Ketsui herself) would be the one to accept the duel. And as romantic as our eyes meeting over blades would be it'd be far less so when we're being tortured to death.
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Pretty damn sure it'd be the gunso fighting us because he's a soldier, not a courtier, and thus carries a katana. They also have no reason to suspect we beat Kimiko in a duel rather than kill her from behind like a dishonorable Scorpion.

Of course, I still don't think duelling the gunso is a good idea, since he's likely going to be a better and more experienced fighter than us.
 
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[X] Request a duel with the gunso to prove your innocence. It is one samurai's word against another. If you can defeat him, you are proven innocent, and can work on resolving this at your own pace. If you lose, however, you will be held as guilty... and murdering your own lord carries a sentence of death by incredibly painful execution.
 
Da Boyz said:
It goes without saying that we aren't picking this. We are supposedly a capable enough killer to take down our lord, this means that a higher ranking Lion (Maybe even Ketsui herself) would be the one to accept the duel. And as romantic as our eyes meeting over blades would be it'd be far less so when we're being tortured to death.
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While this might be true, is not Ketsui who claimed seeing us leaving the quarters; it was the gunso. A duel against the gunso means we're challeging his word and since he's Bushi he has to defend himself.
 
Da Boyz said:
That seems...extraordinarily easy to abuse. I understand that the Rokguani legal system is set up so that the strongest get more leeway but that's kinda ridiculous.
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Correct, however I'm pretty sure there are some exceptions. For example if it wasn't the Gunso but the Emperor who saw us leaving he would look dismissively at us then ignore our challenge. Or perhaps someone else would punish us for insulting the Emperor.
And thus JUSTICE is preserved!
 
Da Boyz said:
That seems...extraordinarily easy to abuse. I understand that the Rokguani legal system is set up so that the strongest get more leeway but that's kinda ridiculous.
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Basically the strong rule and the weak suffer as they must, you are a asshole but stronger? You are more usable to the Empire so you stay alive and strong. Add to that how duels are structured to give cranes the biggest advantage as a duel always goes to ijatsu if both sides did not found a alternative together...

And I am wary about the duel because it also might mean that Matsu think we did it if we are prepared to go for this and teach out opponent.
Remember how we where quite willing to engage in a duel a while ago and that we played with a Lion Bushi as far as they saw in the Tournament.
And no one back then saw the Hida wound us so we might simply have chosen back then to hide our true skill.
 
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Bommelom said:
Pretty damn sure it'd be the gunso fighting us because he's a soldier, not a courtier, and thus carries a katana. They also have no reason to suspect we beatKimiko in a duel rather than stab her from behind like a dishonorable scorpion.

Of course, I still don't think duelling the gunso is a good idea, since he's likely going to be a better and more experienced fighter than us.
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More experienced fighter doesn't mean more experienced duelist. We have decent Void and Air 4 - we stand a pretty okay chance of defeating a military sargeant focused on kenjutsu.

Long term, however, every single one of that gunso's soldiers will be looking for excuses to duel and / or murder us for revenge. And you bet your sweet boots that Ketsui will come up with a reason to close Beiden Pass. Short term, it is probably the easiest way to save our skin, but in the long term it's a terrible plan.
 
storybookknight said:
That will undoubtedly be the official explanation if we choose to investigate ourselves. If we duel, we accuse the gunso of actually lying - and if we win we would be proven correct.
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If you press for a duel, you'd be expected to detail your side of the story. Which might be accusing the gunso of lying, or it might be claiming that someone deliberately deceived him with magic and/or subterfuge.

Da Boyz said:
That seems...extraordinarily easy to abuse. I understand that the Rokguani legal system is set up so that the strongest get more leeway but that's kinda ridiculous.
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The important part here is that it is currently the gunso's word against yours (and also Tani's). Fortunately, you passed the TN for your Sincerity check and thus came across as sufficiently honest that Matsu Ketsui is letting things stand rather than getting directly involved and accusing you herself.

The king Chad said:
I'm more wondering why an entire sqaud and their gunso did not stop the blood covered scorpion
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Presumably they tried, but you don't know how or why. Nor do you get to know before deciding how to proceed. Ketsui is setting the rules here, and she apparently doesn't think you deserve more information just yet, on account of being a potential suspect in the whole thing.
 
Maugan Ra said:
If you press for a duel, you'd be expected to detail your side of the story. Which might be accusing the gunso of lying, or it might be claiming that someone deliberately deceived him with magic and/or subterfuge.



The important part here is that it is currently the gunso's word against yours (and also Tani's). Fortunately, you passed the TN for your Sincerity check and thus came across as sufficiently honest that Matsu Ketsui is letting things stand rather than getting directly involved and accusing you herself.



Presumably they tried, but you don't know how or why. Nor do you get to know before deciding how to proceed. Ketsui is setting the rules here, and she apparently doesn't think you deserve more information just yet, on account of being a potential suspect in the whole thing.
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Hmm, roling some sort of etiquette check, if we go along with the investigation, what does Naoto think is the best way to check on what happened with the Gunso without, like, getting too awkward.

"Hey guy who thinks I'm a murder, wassup, tell me everything you know."

Do they file reports that we can read so that we don't have to face him directly/give him the twenty questions?

Either way.

[X] Request leave to investigate the matter alongside Kitsu Ami. You do not technically have the authority to do so, but between your situation and your lord's achievements you might be able to persuade the daimyo to permit it. This would give you options, but Ketsui would be expecting results quickly and you would be under extremely close scrutiny for any attempts at deception or misdirection.

I wonder how much XP we'll get if we actually manage to solve this murder mystery? :p
 
Honestly, no reason to kill someone who (Probably) hasn't done anything wrong except being deceived by evil magics. Even if duelling is the fastest way out of this.

[X] Request leave to investigate the matter alongside Kitsu Ami. You do not technically have the authority to do so, but between your situation and your lord's achievements you might be able to persuade the daimyo to permit it. This would give you options, but Ketsui would be expecting results quickly and you would be under extremely close scrutiny for any attempts at deception or misdirection.
 
[X] Request leave to investigate the matter alongside Kitsu Ami. You do not technically have the authority to do so, but between your situation and your lord's achievements you might be able to persuade the daimyo to permit it. This would give you options, but Ketsui would be expecting results quickly and you would be under extremely close scrutiny for any attempts at deception or misdirection.

We can always default to the duel later, if it becomes necessary. Let's try to do this aboveboard.
 
[x] Leave this to the magistrates. You would be giving up a great deal of control, but your positive relations with the local law enforcement should keep you in the loop and enable you to handle your own affairs on the side. Keeping your distance will also help shield you from any further accusations.

We're now the acting head of our delegation. The assassin was probably from the same group as sabotaged the Crane, and while investigating personally might give us more control and information than leaving things to the magistrates, we have other things we need to do - like preparing whatever plan we choose to start acting against said group, rather than simply reacting and letting them control the situation.

We're the commander on the spot - the Scorpion aren't going to thank us for trying to pass the buck to people far away from the action when things are moving this quickly.
 
I'm honestly leanning towards dueling, but given the explanation of how bad an idea is...

[X] Request leave to investigate the matter alongside Kitsu Ami. You do not technically have the authority to do so, but between your situation and your lord's achievements you might be able to persuade the daimyo to permit it. This would give you options, but Ketsui would be expecting resultsquickly and you would be under extremely close scrutiny for any attempts at deception or misdirection.
 
I thought for a moment, and immediately duel has seemed to me a bit OOC. Change vote.

[X] Request leave to investigate the matter alongside Kitsu Ami. You do not technically have the authority to do so, but between your situation and your lord's achievements you might be able to persuade the daimyo to permit it. This would give you options, but Ketsui would be expecting resultsquickly and you would be under extremely close scrutiny for any attempts at deception or misdirection.
 
The benefits to the duel are that we would be proven innocent or guilty immediately, and success would be more or less completely under our control. Unfortunately, it'd be risky as hell, and there's a strong chance of generating ill will.

Investigating ourselves lets us leverage many of our strengths, but ties us up and prevents us from attempting to counter the enemy's next move.

Letting the Lion authorities investigate will free us to act on our own, but we will be under increased scrutiny, and the Lion have shown themselves inflexible when dealing get with skullduggery in the past - probably my least favorite of the three options.
 
storybookknight said:
Letting the Lion authorities investigate will free us to act on our own, but we will be under increased scrutiny, and the Lion have shown themselves inflexible when dealing get with skullduggery in the past - probably my least favorite of the three options.
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The following is present in the "investigate ourselves" vote, not the "leave it to the magistrates" one:
Maugan Ra said:
This would give you options, but Ketsui would be expecting results quickly and you would be under extremely close scrutiny for any attempts at deception or misdirection.
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Leave things to the magistrates has the following:
Maugan Ra said:
Keeping your distance will also help shield you from any further accusations.
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Could you explain why you think scrutiny will be more of a problem if we leave things to the magistrates?
 
Candesce said:
The following is present in the "investigate ourselves" vote, not the "leave it to the magistrates" one:

Leave things to the magistrates has the following:

Could you explain why you think scrutiny will be more of a problem if we leave things to the magistrates?
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They've not actually shown themselves competent enough not to somehow find us guilty? I mean, it's better than it might be since they have reasons to respect us, but still.
 
Guys, remember the advantages that we have Otomo Kairyu
They are assholes yes, but any reaction of Matsu that is aimed at the Scorpions at large is something that he can't accept with his mission which means that we can use him as us being in his debt is something that is very worthwhile for him here. Which makes letting them do there investigation without us , which does not precludes our Heimins, more viable then it seems on a first look.
 
Trouble is we are exausted and wounded. Not Nicked, but we are at -5 all for fatigued. But since you'all decided to hold back so much info, our best bet is to join Kitsu Ami in the investigation, and try and stear her towards possible clues. Also, why do people think we can roll 7k4 Investigation? When would one use Investigation/Awarness, when questioning a subject?

Because, when we rolled against Daidoji against his Sincerety we only got 5k2. So I really do not get why people think we are a great investigator rolling 5k2-5. That is an average of 14.

BTW: @Maugan Ra : Where is the letter we got from Mariko? That might be important.Also, in terms of Etiquette, how does one ask for Jade or Crystal without giving offense? I am guessing that is all but impossible, right?

Also, it is the option that lets us feed the investigators info, quitely, directly to Kitsu Ami. Help lead the investigation on and reveal some of the secrets that might save all their lives. Really, it means risking our secrets more then anything.

[X] Request leave to investigate the matter alongside Kitsu Ami. You do not technically have the authority to do so, but between your situation and your lord's achievements you might be able to persuade the daimyo to permit it. This would give you options, but Ketsui would be expecting results quickly and you would be under extremely close scrutiny for any attempts at deception or misdirection.
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