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In Thunder's Echo (Legend of the Five Rings Quest)

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[x] Deflect her. The last woman you flirted with committed suicide barely more than a week ago, after all.
-[X] Spend a void point to avoid a breach of etiquette

Ya, Too soon, Pheonix, too soon.
 
@Bommelom @Equable @Kelenas @A Nation's Virtue @Nix's Warden @DarkAsSilver @Broken25 @Dirtnap @EtchedSteel @Deadly Snark @Wade Garrett @Hydroplatypus

... I think that's most of everyone...

Let me present a dissenting opinion.

[X] Flirt back. It's our duty.

So, I also agree that Naoto would be feeling raw so soon after Doji Mariko. And OOC I can understand not wanting to get into something like that so soon after how traumatically things ended.

But... our job here as a member of this delegation is to win friends and allies for the Scorpion however possible, and this is frankly a golden opportunity to develop closer ties with the Phoenix, something that our Clan could desperately use. If that means that we have to flirt when we don't really feel like it... I kind of think that we need to do it anyways. Yeah, we don't want to go crazy with it, and we probably want to keep it at light flirting for now, but our Duty is to get results.
 
Yes, but I'm sure there will be other opportunities in the future. Granted, we prayed to our Kami and then she appeared so...

...

Now I'm conflicted.

PD: Actually... By my given explanation above... Yeah, you're right.
 
storybookknight said:
But... our job here as a member of this delegation is to win friends and allies for the Scorpion however possible, and this is frankly a golden opportunity to develop closer ties with the Phoenix, something that our Clan could desperately use. If that means that we have to flirt when we don't really feel like it... I kind of think that we need to do it anyways. Yeah, we don't want to go crazy with it, and we probably want to keep it at light flirting for now, but our Duty is to get results.
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I'm not sure flirting with her is the correct choice, given that I'm fairly sure she knows about our relationship to Doji Mariko, and flirting with her right now is going to signal that no, we're not particularly upset about Mariko's, which doesn't exactly make us seem trustworthy, and as mentioned earlier, this might be some sort of test.
 
storybookknight said:
But... our job here as a member of this delegation is to win friends and allies for the Scorpion however possible, and this is frankly a golden opportunity to develop closer ties with the Phoenix, something that our Clan could desperately use. If that means that we have to flirt when we don't really feel like it... I kind of think that we need to do it anyways. Yeah, we don't want to go crazy with it, and we probably want to keep it at light flirting for now, but our Duty is to get results.
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That's kind of why I'm voting for "Deflect". It basically boils down to signaling/telling her "yeah, I might be interested, but not so soon after what happend to Mariko". Even asked the GM about it for confirmation.
It doesn't really cost us anything - we still have about 2-3 months of Winter Court left, which should be more than enough time to pursue a romance with Tani - and might actually make her respect us more, since it signals that we don't treat this too lightly/carelessly, even if this is not some sort of hidden test of character.
 
Bommelom said:
I'm not sure flirting with her is the correct choice, given that I'm fairly sure she knows about our relationship to Doji Mariko, and flirting with her right now is going to signal that no, we're not particularly upset about Mariko's, which doesn't exactly make us seem trustworthy, and as mentioned earlier, this might be some sort of test.
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Ah, but there are a couple of levels of flirtation. There's 'yes, I find you attractive as well but am unwilling to commit to anything at the moment'; there's 'I find you attractive and am actively pursuing you', there's 'I find flirting entertaining and you're kind of cute'... I'm certain that we can manage to keep things at an appropriate level.

Also, Asako doesn't really strike me as the type to be testing us in that way. I think she just legitimately finds us interesting. If she were a Crane, a Scorpion, or from another very political clan I would be more worried.

So you do have a valid concern, it is a risk, but I prefer to err on the side of going by how she is presenting herself rather than assuming hidden motives on her part. If you decide it's safer to err the other way, well that's fine too :)
 
storybookknight said:
... I think that's most of everyone...
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While technically you are correct, the pheonix are the clan of philosophers and monks. I'm not 100% sure that this is a test from her but I'm not going to change my vote. It hurt Naoto to lose Mariko, a lot. I don't think he's quite ready to flirt back, even for Duty. We can still gain support from the Pheonix without openly flirting back at least for now.
 
[X] Deflect her.

I don't think "If something happens to you in seven days I'll be flirting with whatshername Yoritomo from the Mantis delegation" is the impression Bayushi-no-Kami wants us to make on this girl.
 
Kelenas said:
That's kind of why I'm voting for "Deflect". It basically boils down to signaling/telling her "yeah, I might be interested, but not so soon after what happend to Mariko". Even asked the GM about it for confirmation.
It doesn't really cost us anything - we still have about 2-3 months of Winter Court left, which should be more than enough time to pursue a romance with Tani - and might actually make her respect us more, since it signals that we don't treat this too lightly/carelessly, even if this is not some sort of hidden test of character.
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I mean, I think it costs us an important chance. Tani deliberately set things up to be able to get out of the Court and to somewhere relatively private, where we could discuss and be a bit more open with one another. If she were testing our character, it seems unlikely that she would have gone to such an extent to set a favorable mood, etc. If she wanted to trap us, she could have flirted with us at Court; I think she really is legitimately interested.

My concern is that if we push her away now, it sort of sends the message that she is second place to a dead woman, and one who we knew for only a handful of days. Asako Tani carries her own blade and is a highly accomplished loremaster; to me it suggests that she is competitive, proud, or otherwise driven. Refusing to flirt back really could come at a high cost.

And in a normal Winter Court, we might have more time to romance her - but as crazy fast as this one has been moving, and given that we already know that Maho is involved, can we really risk that we won't need her assistance next week?
 
Sticking with deflect. Give it a week or two and I'll be fine flirting back, but we have to at least give the appearance of being upset our romantic interest died.
 
storybookknight said:
I mean, I think it costs us an important chance. Tani deliberately set things up to be able to get out of the Court and to somewhere relatively private, where we could discuss and be a bit more open with one another. If she were testing our character, it seems unlikely that she would have gone to such an extent to set a favorable mood, etc. If she wanted to trap us, she could have flirted with us at Court; I think she really is legitimately interested.
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She's a Phoenix, not a Crane (or a Scorpion, for that matter), so I don't think the point of a test would be to trap us but more to find out if we're trustworthy or not.

storybookknight said:
My concern is that if we push her away now, it sort of sends the message that she is second place to a dead woman, and one who we knew for only a handful of days. Asako Tani carries her own blade and is a highly accomplished loremaster; to me it suggests that she is competitive, proud, or otherwise driven. Refusing to flirt back really could come at a high cost.
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While we've only known Mariko for a handful of days, we've barely talked with Asako Tani. If we don't flirt back right now, we're sending the signal that we actually cared about Mariko, which I don't think is a bad signal to send (if we do flirt with her, I'm afraid we're gonna be sending the opposite signal, which is that we seduced Mariko in order to manipulate her, which doesn't improve our trustworthyness at all). Asako Tani also hasn't acted especially proud/easily angered until now, so I doubt she's going to be angry at us for not flirting back unless me massively blow our etiquette check.

Edit:
Should be going to bed, though, so I won't be able to reply to any replies to this until tomorrow.
 
[X] Flirt back. Why not?
Very well.
Out of interest Maugan Ram there are currently two competing wordings for flirt back. Will these be tallied separately or together and then the more popular one decides the tone?
 
Bommelom said:
She's a Phoenix, not a Crane (or a Scorpion, for that matter), so I don't think the point of a test would be to trap us but more to find out if we're trustworthy or not.


While we've only known Mariko for a handful of days, we've barely talked with Asako Tani. If we don't flirt back right now, we're sending the signal that we actually cared about Mariko, which I don't think is a bad signal to send (if we do flirt with her, I'm afraid we're gonna be sending the opposite signal, which is that we seduced Mariko in order to manipulate her, which doesn't improve our trustworthyness at all). Asako Tani also hasn't acted especially proud/easily angered until now, so I doubt she's going to be angry at us for not flirting back unless me massively blow our etiquette check.

Edit:
Should be going to bed, though, so I won't be able to reply to any replies to this until tomorrow.
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Sending the signal that we actually cared about Mariko might actually be a bad decision given Rokugani cultural norms. Love is actually a shameful emotion in Rokugan, because it can draw someone into conflict with their Duty to their lord. There's a risk of coming off as immature or weak-willed if we admit to having developed such strong emotions so soon. (Probably not if we succeed on our Etiquette check, but there are some risks.)

Similarly, I don't think that it will send the signal that we seduced Mariko in order to manipulate her unless we do particularly poorly on our Courtier rolls to flirt. It's much more likely that she will come to the conclusion that our dalliance with Mariko was not terribly serious. I mean, if she starts trying to hint that it should go beyond flirting, we probably want to put the brakes on then, but some lighthearted flirting to reciprocate her interest would probably be unlikely to give her a bad impression of us.
 
storybookknight said:
Sending the signal that we actually cared about Mariko might actually be a bad decision given Rokugani cultural norms. Love is actually a shameful emotion in Rokugan, because it can draw someone into conflict with their Duty to their lord. There's a risk of coming off as immature or weak-willed if we admit to having developed such strong emotions so soon. (Probably not if we succeed on our Etiquette check, but there are some risks.)

Similarly, I don't think that it will send the signal that we seduced Mariko in order to manipulate her unless we do particularly poorly on our Courtier rolls to flirt. It's much more likely that she will come to the conclusion that our dalliance with Mariko was not terribly serious. I mean, if she starts trying to hint that it should go beyond flirting, we probably want to put the brakes on then, but some lighthearted flirting to reciprocate her interest would probably be unlikely to give her a bad impression of us.
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You bring up good points, they're well reasoned and everything. I'm just stubborn and not willing to risk giving her a bad opinon of us. Love might be a 'bad' thing but it quite clearly didn't interfere with our Duty else we would've been the one chopped in half on the dueling ring.
 
Love isn't shameful in Rokugan; not only is one of the seven major Fortunes the Fortune of Love, but you gain Honor/Glory for declaring love for someone (so long as you do not identify them). It is only shameful if you let it come between you and your Duty.
 
Dirtnap said:
You bring up good points, they're well reasoned and everything. I'm just stubborn and not willing to risk giving her a bad opinon of us. Love might be a 'bad' thing but it quite clearly didn't interfere with our Duty else we would've been the one chopped in half on the dueling ring.
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We WOULD have been if Katika didn't step in.
 
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