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In Thunder's Echo (Legend of the Five Rings Quest)

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Hmmm... You know, I like how this is turning out here. This particular situation, I mean, not the aftermath of the incident with Kaiu Hiraki. I like it because I've always believed the Scorpion and the Phoenix should be closer than they were in canon. After all, Shiba gave his life to save Shosuro and Shinsei. Bayushi's brother sacrificed himself so that Shosuro, the woman Bayushi loved, could escape the Shadowlands with the Black Scrolls.

That is heavy stuff. You would think this would create an incredible bond of friendship, if only a quiet and understated one, between the two Clans. Or, at the very least, one between the Phoenix and the Shosuro Family. We've also got the whole Yogo thing, where Bayushi provided Asako Yogo a way to still be useful even after he was cursed. He gave the man something to live for rather than just slitting his stomach.

And yet, there really isn't much of a relationship between the two Clans in canon. Perhaps the Scorpion feel like they are protecting the Phoenix by being distant, thus separating the Clan of Shiba from being associated with their villainy, but I think that reasoning is kind of lame. It doesn't seem too unlikely that some strong friendships could be forged between the Scorpion and the Phoenix with so much positive history shared between them.

So I'm hoping that Naoto and Asako Tani at the very least become good friends, if nothing else. It just seems fitting to me.
 
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Winged Knight said:
So I'm hoping that Naoto and Asako Tani at the very least become good friends, if nothing else. It just seems fitting to me.
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I think we stand a good chance, at least. Right now both Scorpion and Phoenix are somewhat weak, the Scorpion from having been exiled to the Burning Sands and the Phoenix from opening up the Black Scrolls. Both of our clans are naturally looking for allies of some sort, so there is definitely room for common ground. Unlike the Crab, who we would probably be able to provide political assistance to, the Phoenix would be much more likely to seek martial assistance, and given our delegation I think we're at least coming across as being capable of providing such.

From a purely pragmatic standpoint, the main thing will be to develop good relations with the Phoenix before a clan with more resources decides that they want to get involved. If they can make the Phoenix a better deal, we might not be able to contest it. In particular I'd be most concerned about the Unicorn. They did the Phoenix a big favor during the Clan Wars, and came out of the Wars relatively unscathed - as did the Mantis, but the Unicorn are naturally much less bellicose and have a better history of cooperation with the Phoenix.

Granted, the Unicorn and Scorpion are also on pretty good terms with each other, so they might not necessarily get in the way of us cooperating with the Phoenix, but getting to be on good terms with the Phoenix will help us make sure that we do not become marginalized in any deals that occur. Might be a potential selling point to Asako Tani as well - any negotiations that they make for much-needed assistance will be more likely to be fair with implicit or explicit Scorpion support.
 
The Laurent said:
Would quoting the Tao make us come across as if we don't have any original ideas in our head? Or that we're wise?
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A quote from the Tao, or your ancestors, is basically unimpeachable. It can't be disrespected or argued with, at least without huge effort. Most Rokugani, that thought probably wouldn't cross their minds until the 4th time in the conversation.
 
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Night said:
A quote from the Tao, or your ancestors, is basically unimpeachable. It can't be disrespected or argued with, at least without huge effort. Most Rokugani, that thought probably wouldn't cross their minds until the 4th time in the conversation.
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In fact, quoting the Tao means you not only have reading it, but also try to understand what the little teacher tried to transmit through his simple words. Is a show of respect of some sort.

That said, I'm working on the assumption the Phoenix is more Fortunist since their magic comes from praying the elemental kami.

[X]"Every journey begins with a single step. Step well, and your journey will be filled with fortune. Step poorly, and it will be wrought with disaster, as the Tao says. I've been learning to do both this journey it seems. For such a small amount of time so much seems to happen." Shake your head and offer a wry smile

"Yet I'm sure I don't need to tell you any of that, I would trust that your own experiences have been well so far?"
 
I do not think the vote format used to deliver the question is compatible with the vote counting program. Some doing some edits of my vote.
 
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5.14 - Discussions of Theology
  • Threadmarks
    • When in doubt, reference the Tao. It is one of the more pertinent pieces of advice that your sensei gave you, both from a pragmatic and a philosophical perspective. In purely pragmatic terms, quoting the Tao is all but impossible to directly counter for another samurai, for to question it is to dismiss a thousand years of tradition and defy the official state religion of the Empire. From a more personal point of view... well, while you might have tended towards a more Fortunist stance in recent weeks, there is no denying that Shinsei was a man possessed of great wisdom. His discussions with the First Hantei form the basis of the Tao, and the teachings of your lords and ancestors are often a source of strength and certainty in unsettled times.

    "Every journey begins with a single step. Step well, and your journey will be filled with fortune. Step poorly, and it will be wrought with disaster." You say softly, and Tani's lips curl into a smile as she recognizes the quotation. "I have been learning to do both of late, it seems. For such a small amount of time, a great deal seems to have happened."

    "Such is life." The Loremaster responds lightly. "Only when you are in your grave is there nothing more to learn."

    You nod in acknowledgement of the supporting quotation. "It often surprises me just how often the Tao can be used to guide our steps, even a thousand years or more after it was written. The amount of foresight such a thing must have required is immense."

    "That is certainly one possibility, though if you seek the perspective of one guided by centuries of foresight, you should speak with the Dragon." Tani replies. "By contrast, I do not think that Shinsei could see the future in the same way. Rather, his gaze was focused inwards, on what it means to be human. It is through that understand that he can guide us, for while the years may pass and the world may change, the soul of man remains as it ever was."

    You raise an eyebrow at that, but choose not to respond immediately, instead contemplating it for a time. Tani does not seem bothered, and for a moment you are amused by the idea that the Phoenix are well used to conversations that pause for extensive contemplation after an insightful comment or two. In the meantime, she leads you to a small tea house, a relatively humble establishment adjoining one of the town's primary thoroughfares. The tables here allow you to enjoy your tea while watching the world go by, and once your fellow guest has ordered a pot of tea for the two of you to share you sit down and do just that.

    "An interesting notion, Asako-sama." You say at last, having put your thoughts in order. "Though would that not imply the path to enlightenment lies in one's own fundamental nature, as opposed to anything external?"

    "Indeed it does." Tani says with a gentle smile, folding her hands in her lap and watching the street outside, filled with samurai and peasants of all stripes. "Or perhaps I should say that one path may be found there, for the Brotherhood has always been quite clear that enlightenment can be be found in many places. To be human is to be descended from the divine - even before the kami fell from the heavens, mankind was born from the tears of Lady Sun and the blood of Lord Moon. Is it so strange to think that a true understanding of the nature of things can be found by cultivating that divine spark?"

    "Not so strange, but also perhaps somewhat dangerous." You reply with a wry smile, more for the sake of conversation than any particular opposition to her words. "History is filled with cautionary tales of the problems which can arise when mortals compare themselves to gods."

    Tani laughs softly, inclining her head in acknowledgement of your point. "True enough, Soshi-san, and we must always be careful of such things. The path of wisdom is rarely an gentle one, and it is all too easy to stray from it."

    You have an opportunity to steer the course of the conversation. What do you wish to discuss?
    [ ] Keep talking about Theology (current topic)
    [ ] Talk about something else (write in)
     
  • Threadmarks
    • We could try and steer the conversation a bit about the court; possibly probe her a bit for information about what she's gotten up to, and possibly trade some information of our own in return.
     
    [X] Keep talking about Theology (current topic)

    Maybe it could wander around the more esoteric topics and give more context to Nothing plots....I'm pretty interested in reading more theology in any case.
     
    [X] Ask her if she has a particular area of focus, or a way in which she prefers to seek wisdom.
    -[X] spend void if necessary to keep up with the conversation.

    This could lead to more theology, or to an esoteric topic where she has a primary expertise. People love talking about themselves, and studious people (aka nerds) love to talk about things that excite them. Deliberately moving things into her court and showing that we can keep up - though acknowledging her superior expertise - could be a good way to become closer.
     
    [X] Ask her if she has a particular area of focus, or a way in which she prefers to seek wisdom.
    -[X] spend void if necessary to keep up with the conversation.

    This does seem like it might be interesting.
     
    [X] Ask her if she has a particular area of focus, or a way in which she prefers to seek wisdom.
    -[X] spend void if necessary to keep up with the conversation.
     
    [X] Ask her if she has a particular area of focus, or a way in which she prefers to seek wisdom.
    -[X] spend void if necessary to keep up with the conversation.
     
    Well, this is only our first meeting. But then again first impressions matter.

    So, something like:
    [X] Gently stear the topic from Theology towards Enlightenment and Inner Peace. And from there, to peace in Rokugan and what wisdom she might be willing to share with us to help achieve Peace, without and within. She is a Phoenix and the resident expert on the topic after all.

    While talking sweet nothings for the forseeable future is fine, let's see if we can get something done. Signals that we would like more peace to the Phoenix is not something she is likely to know how to deal with.

    Winged Knight said:
    And yet, there really isn't much of a relationship between the two Clans in canon. Perhaps the Scorpion feel like they are protecting the Phoenix by being distant, thus separating the Clan of Shiba from being associated with their villainy, but I think that reasoning is kind of lame. It doesn't seem too unlikely that some strong friendships could be forged between the Scorpion and the Phoenix with so much positive history shared between them.
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    ALso, why do the Phoenix hate the Scorpion? Because Scorpion Lies are the most common cause of Wars and Strife and the Phoenix stand for Honesty and Peace. Our job as agitators is literally in oposition with their job as peacemakers. It's normal the hate us when they spent the last 1000+ years cleaning up our messes. Our messes are neccesary to prevent greater harm, but that is not something the Phoenix know, or alternativly belive anymore.
     
    primemountain said:
    Well, this is only our first meeting. But then again first impressions matter.

    So, something like:
    [X] Gently stear the topic from Theology towards Enlightenment and Inner Peace. And from there, to peace in Rokugan and what wisdom she might be willing to share with us to help achieve Peace, without and within. She is a Phoenix and the resident expert on the topic after all.

    While talking sweet nothings for the forseeable future is fine, let's see if we can get something done. Signals that we would like more peace to the Phoenix is not something she is likely to know how to deal with.
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    Point of order; we did meet Asako Tani before. I think it is threadmark 1.17.

    Also, I would think the Scorpion would be quite fond of peace. It's much harder to assassinate people in times of war, after all :p
     
    [X] Ask her if she has a particular area of focus, or a way in which she prefers to seek wisdom.
    -[X] spend void if necessary to keep up with the conversation.
     
    5.15 - 20th Day of the Boar
  • Threadmarks
    • There are a number of options currently open to you... but on balance, you think it is probably best not to over-commit at this stage. While it is entirely possible you could succeed in steering the conversation to a given end, trying to do so and failing would be disastrous. Your lord was tolerant enough of your error with the Crab, but if you need to inform her of a similar error with the Phoenix? Things will not go well.

    So you play it safe and continue to talk about Theology. Which, in fairness to Asako Tani, is quite a fascinating conversation topic all on its own. The Phoenix have always been religious in a way that even the most pious samurai from other Clans struggle to match, but you are only now starting to understand what that actually means on a practical level. Their grasp of magic is the most obvious benefit - the Isawa family have always been the largest group of Shugenja in the Empire, even if their numbers are currently heavily depleted - but apparently such a religious focus has lead them to advances and insights in everything from metallurgy to naval tactics. The Loremaster knows at least a little about them all, and to your own delight you find that you are able to keep up with her in all but the most specialized areas.

    All in all, you have a very interesting and enjoyable afternoon.

    -/-

    20th Day of the Boar

    In the morning, you make a point to seek out Yogo Hanzo, realizing that you haven't exchanged more than a handful of words with the Shugenja in several days. He seems... strangely preoccupied, almost withdrawn, as though distracted by something.

    Naoto's Courtier/Awareness: 7k4 = 30
    Hanzo's Etiquette/Willpower: ??? = 33

    You make some discreet enquiries, trying to see if you can work out what is troubling your kinsman and if you can do anything to help, but get nowhere of any note. You could push... but then you'd just be annoying him for no certain end, and all things considered that is probably not a worthwhile course of action.

    Besides, Bayushi-sama can take care of that if there truly is a problem. She, at least, has the authority to overcome his stubbornness if she deems it necessary.

    -/-

    Click

    The sound of stone pieces on a wooden board is quite distinctive, and it fills the air as you and Daidoji Chen play Go in one of the private rooms allocated for such business just off the main court chamber. Distantly you can hear the faint murmur of conversation as the other courtiers go about their daily routine, but such is not your concern at the moment.

    Instead, you focus on your opponent. It does not take you long to see just how tired Daidoji Chen appears to be. The Crane is far too well trained to reveal such clues about his emotional state in the normal course of things, but this is a relatively private setting and you have the advantage of considerable expertise in prying out such uncomfortable truths. There are faint shadows around his eyes, and the few wrinkles you can see are somehow deeper and better defined than before. You wonder how much of his hair is grey under that white dye that the Crane all seem to favour.

    Conversation between the two of you is friendly, but muted. Almost mindless chatter, really, indulged in for the sake of good manners rather than because of any great interest in the topics being discussed. Protocol dictates that you go through such motions before moving onto any heavier topics, but now that you have spent the appropriate amount of time on them...

    "Soshi-san. I have... a request." Chen says quietly, not looking up from the Go board.

    "Of course, Daidoji-san." You respond in a non-committal fashion. "How can I assist?"

    "By giving me some actual answers." The Iron Warrior says bluntly. He sighs and looks up at you. "I am not a fool, Soshi-san. Doji-san tried to hide it, but it was obvious that she was... concerned about something. That she believed she had enemies working against her, and in more than mere political matters."

    He pauses for a moment, and you school your features into neutrality as he studies you. After a moment, he continues. "And now she is dead, and the sealed orders she received from our Champion are missing from her quarters. I do not believe you were her enemy, Scorpion-san, but either you know who was or you have some strong suspicions. Tell me, please - what is going on?"

    Respond:
    [ ] Tell him the truth about your suspicions
    [ ] Come up with an appropriate lie
    [ ] Refuse to answer

    QM's note - Write-in's are highly recommended for all of the given options, since how you respond matters almost as much as what you say.
     
  • Threadmarks
    • [X] Politely refuse to answer, but hint at your findings obliquely.
    -[X] Let out the small truth that you considered her a dear friend, and are most displeased by what happened.

    Think that's obscure enough? I can't do court games like this :)
     
    Yeah, figured just going with the flow while talking to Tani wouldn't really get us anything interesting (well, beyond a good time), though it was obviously the safest option.

    In regards to Chen... it's somewhat difficult. On one hand, I'm rather skeptical that he was "in" on this, given that he was almost as much at risk by the plot as Mariko. So, showing him some trust and giving him some information could gain us a fairly strong ally in him who might be able to provide us with information or warnings we otherwise might not get.

    On the other hand, if we provide him with said information, it could easily alter how he behaves, which might tip off the conspirators that someone's looking into this matter, and make things harder for us both in the form of said conspirators taking care to cover their tracks more carefully, and possibly sending out agents to hamper us and anyone else investigating.
     
    [x] "I am not the enemy of her, or you, Daidoji-san. As to what is going on...well that's harder to figure out than your defences on this board." Make a move for an obvious feint.
    "But, it is strange that your Champion one who trained with the Lion, did not understand how things would proceed from the start. Yet that move does not appear to be in his interests, or your Clan's." Another move as he no doubt evades us.
    "Almost as if someone wants to see things remain unsettled...it is strange indeed. No one right now profits from continued disunity but a few, and it's not my clan, your clan, our host's clan, or anyone else with an interest in this particular court."
    Finish another move.
     
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