In The Grimdark of Fanfiction -40k

I sort of wonder if that Empire-centric view the fiction tends to take is some old holdover from Warhammer Fantasy, where the Empire was just a fantasy version of the HRE, and not a giant death-metal misery grinder for everyone, even if they still had witch hunters and the like.
My favorite bit of both settings was the dark humor, but that's ruined by treating the Imperium as unironic heroes rather than self-deluded victims.
Also, I have to say, the fascist undertones were a lot easier to ignore when I was younger and it didn't all seem so ominously topical. Even if it was originally meant as satire.

Making the Emperor a character—instead of a skeleton on a throne who allegedly once led humanity as a living man in a mostly-forgotten age of progress and recovery from the Fall—pretty much wrecked him imo.

Oh, yeah. Hero-worshipping and deifying a mostly-dead skeleton is funny; the actual living Emperor, as presented, wasn't funny at all.
The whole message that "this absolute dictator was the best ever and is/was totally necessary because the world is such a scary and dangerous place that only they can protect us" is my least favorite part of the setting.
 
I have dallied on writing fan fiction for both Warhammer settings. Anyone who has observed the recent kerfuffle should by now know my dissatisfaction with how the Horus Heresy is written and incorporated into the 40k mythos. Particularly is i find that conversations about the era is stagnated around the ubermänchen that the officially endorsed canon permits to dominate the stories set there. If i do end up posting fan fiction in the future then i think it pertinent to put up my own interpretation for anyone jumping in to consult.

So here is a list of the assumptions I thought to put out there if you stumble onto something i write, starting with the key out of story philosophy i run by:

1. The Imperium is wrong, no debate.
There is an irritating trend in 40k discussion where anyone who protests the Imperiums necessity is almost always answered to the tune of "it totally is" or "yes it is terrible, but you must understand, there is no better option". Both do not seem to understand that the "canon" they like to break out like an obnoxious bible thumper is already a largely incoherent mess of kludged together work by many different writers, all with different ideas on how basic concepts of the setting work. Any material supporting the Imperiums necessity therefore have about as much strength as back flipping terminators.

I therefore, as someone with free will and a dislike of the premise, completely reject that assumption and any arguments in favour of it. Before the rise of the Imperium, there were societies better able to resist Chaos and hostile aliens without resorting to atrocity, there existed aliens perfectly willing to coexist peacefully with humanity. And the Emperor ruined all that. If one of the themes of the setting is that the Imperium is a terrible polity to live under, then it should be emphasised that it did not need to exist in the first place.

That will extend to psykers as well. They are not inevitable ticking time bombs, one can live their whole life not knowing they are one, or knowing but choosing not to act on them for fear of social consequences. Before you say it, they are not by default beacons for demons. For the ruinous powers to find a psyker they need to actively be called to them by either the psyker themselves reaching out or cultists using a ritual.


With that out of the way, certain significant setting details will be altered as well. Particularly regarding the Imperiums founding, the Horus Heresy and how Chaos works. I don't have as much to say on the other factions, that might change latter, but I want to focus on what I have fully formed. Beginning with the Great Crusade:

1. The Emperor was not "perpetual" or whatever it is called now.
He was a guy born on Terra lived his pre-rulership days fighting for one of the warlords as a soldier, and later, a prominent commander. His ambition grew gradually after pushed out from Terra and the Sol system, gaining confidence and being egged on by those under him to claim all of humanity. Why did imperial institutions have a poor start with bad foundations leading to the Heresy? The guy in charge was a conqueror before all else. All the science stuff was by the brightest minds he collected like Pokemon.

2. Primarchs were not ubermänchen.
As the Emperor is not a super scientist, where does that leave his sons? The answer is that they are Not his sons. They were born on the worlds where they were found. Neither were they promoted to head of their respective legions once found, they took the long way via centuries long service and acclaim amounts legionnaires recruited from their home worlds. They are not unimportant or unskilled at all, but their overall strength at their height would measure at about above that of a 41st millennium Chapter Master due to better technology, with higher skill at the things they were known for.


So how does Chaos play into this? Well I think the problem with the Ruinous Powers as written is that they are to monolithic. If Chaos is supposed to be true to its namesake then why is the depictions of its influence so stale. Each of the four only have one type of Greater Demon, one type of Lesser Demon and two kinds of war beast, one which is mounted by demons or mortal champions.

The reason for this is the table top game, where the confines of selling figures and keeping a concise army list natural constrains the variety in the game. Not inherently objectionable. So why does the fiction outside the game feel the need to be constrained by those limitations.

1. Chaos demons are legion.
The types of demons you are familiar with are simply the best known to mortals. In reality there are potentially countless different types of demons, sometimes overlapping with others in the warp. When demonic armies are summoned onto the material plane they may include those you are familiar with, mixed in with a cacophonous, colourful riot of the different varieties of creatures. If the warp is suposed to be a space with no hard and fast rules then the entities serve the Dark Powers should display a far greater variety that the tabletop allowed in the written fiction.

2. Borders are non-material and fickle things.
If the Warp is to be a place where tha laws that hold real-space together are mere suggestions, then shouldn't an already illusionary human concept such as borders. So why should there only be demons of a single Ruinous Power. A demon types alignment should generally be on a gradient between the Big Four, with some being easier for a casual observer to place on the spectrum than others. That should enable a more nuanced variety of demons and make room for Chaos Undivided types, after all those kinds of Demon Princes have to go somewhere. Likewise on the border territory between the Big Four there also exists demons that represent amalgamations between the powers contesting the area. Their mixed nature and shaky allegiance makes them loose canons to demons from the core territories, but still useful to keep onside, for however long it lasts.

This also means that the distinction between Greater and Lesser Demons is rarely a clear cut thing. A demons influence can not always be measured by the size of their form in the physical realm. That human sized suit of crimson animated armor might just be one of the most respected smiths from the Slayer Forge, who is bowed to by even Khorne's Heralds and smaller Bloodthirsters. It's a toss up weather a first impression is correct, especially anything that has some Tzeench in it.

3. The Big Four are not the real masterminds, sort of.
This might be a bit tricky to explain. The entities known as Khorne, Slaneesh, Nurgle and Tzeench are not really the ones in charge of the show. They are more like geographical features, built from the base emption that provide their core. Think of them like Azathoth of Lovecraft lore, large blind idiots who's existence regardless effects the universe around them.

The true movers and shakers of the Ruinous Powers are the demons that generally occupy the step above the Greater Demons. There is no single name for this category of demons, variously known as Eidolons, Grand Princes, Supreme Demons and others, these are the most powerful beings that are capable of fully sentient thought and awareness to interact with the Materium. These are the leaders of each of the four "factions" as any mortal knowledgeable enough may know them, with those not fully aligned with one reigning in the border territories between the four.

Any gifts granted that are attributed to one of the four was most likely given by one of the Grand Princes. Gifts of Chaos and other phenomena that benefit the mortal followers of Chaos are caused by individual or multiple demons working in concert. Most mortal followers are unaware of the internal workings of the Realm of Chaos, the theology of the four gods is essentially simplification to quickly explain Chaos to mortals and a convenient fiction to make Chaos appear more omniscient then it really is. It is also an expedient fiction for the Arch-Fiends of the four to spin. Even in hell you can't escape politics.


The problem of canons Chaos Gods is that one of the main threats of the setting are four one dimensional super beings, which fail to be interesting on their own or individually as they frequently dominate plots when handled poorly. Likewise having to constantly resort to capriciousness to resolve the question to why the forces of chaos often seem to self-sabotage becomes worn out quickly.
The way Chaos works here is largely lifted from this post by Ganonso, who has also done other interesting wold building of the divine side of things for their Warhammer quests.

The final big alterations are ones that have hefty consequences for the 41st millennium:

1. Sorry Jim, the Primarchs are dead.
As far as I am concerned that Primarchs served their narrative purpose after the Heresy's immediate aftermath. The ones who canonically became Demon Princes have noting really narratively to do, and mostly did not seem to really deserve their Demonhod, being how arduous it is supposed to be to obtain. Likewise for those that would disappear wandering into the void, makes for good mythology that their Chapters to tell over the course of millennia, but best left as stories. They to died long ago. The Imperium of the present can not depend on old legends of the past to save them, not can the Arch-Enemy rely on its early champions to drive its forces to its final victory.

2. Abbadon died in one of the early Black Crusades.
I hear that he has been better written recently, but I don't like that for all of 10,000 years only one person is allowed to lead 13 Black Crusades. Why make it the same guy over and over again when you can have multiple diffrent individuals leading the diffrent Crusades. One of the supposed tenets of Chaos worship is that those most capable make it to the top. That would mean that the position of Warmaster should be up for grabs to whoever can convince most the forces in the Eye of Terror to back them, most importantly the Traitor Legions and the big demons in the warp.

It could to possibles such as a magos of the Dark Mechanicus taking the reigns, leading to a Crusade that is particularly targeted toward the loyalist Mechanicus. It could be highly successful Chaos Reaver who leads the Crusade more as if it was a large plunder expedition. With multible types of Warmaster it can make each Crusade have its own character, it's overal goals and execution differing according to each Warmaster motivation and personality. It would also lead to tales of politicking, of both the diplomatic and violent kind leading up to a Crusades launch. It can also mean wacky shenanigans such as major contingents disapproving of a winning candidate, but without sufficient power to contest the choice resort to to boycotting the Black Crusade, starting their own not-Black Crusade in protest.


Conceiving of this has been inspired by open-scetch's quest Suffer Not. Thought I have regretfully negligent in reading for a while, it is and excellent read with great world building for the setting. The parts where Space Marines get focus are ones that I will take inspiration from in writing them outside of combat.
 
I have dallied on writing fan fiction for both Warhammer settings. Anyone who has observed the recent kerfuffle should by now know my dissatisfaction with how the Horus Heresy is written and incorporated into the 40k mythos. Particularly is i find that conversations about the era is stagnated around the ubermänchen that the officially endorsed canon permits to dominate the stories set there. If i do end up posting fan fiction in the future then i think it pertinent to put up my own interpretation for anyone jumping in to consult.

So here is a list of the assumptions I thought to put out there if you stumble onto something i write, starting with the key out of story philosophy i run by:

1. The Imperium is wrong, no debate.
There is an irritating trend in 40k discussion where anyone who protests the Imperiums necessity is almost always answered to the tune of "it totally is" or "yes it is terrible, but you must understand, there is no better option". Both do not seem to understand that the "canon" they like to break out like an obnoxious bible thumper is already a largely incoherent mess of kludged together work by many different writers, all with different ideas on how basic concepts of the setting work. Any material supporting the Imperiums necessity therefore have about as much strength as back flipping terminators.

I therefore, as someone with free will and a dislike of the premise, completely reject that assumption and any arguments in favour of it. Before the rise of the Imperium, there were societies better able to resist Chaos and hostile aliens without resorting to atrocity, there existed aliens perfectly willing to coexist peacefully with humanity. And the Emperor ruined all that. If one of the themes of the setting is that the Imperium is a terrible polity to live under, then it should be emphasised that it did not need to exist in the first place.

That will extend to psykers as well. They are not inevitable ticking time bombs, one can live their whole life not knowing they are one, or knowing but choosing not to act on them for fear of social consequences. Before you say it, they are not by default beacons for demons. For the ruinous powers to find a psyker they need to actively be called to them by either the psyker themselves reaching out or cultists using a ritual.


With that out of the way, certain significant setting details will be altered as well. Particularly regarding the Imperiums founding, the Horus Heresy and how Chaos works. I don't have as much to say on the other factions, that might change latter, but I want to focus on what I have fully formed. Beginning with the Great Crusade:

1. The Emperor was not "perpetual" or whatever it is called now.
He was a guy born on Terra lived his pre-rulership days fighting for one of the warlords as a soldier, and later, a prominent commander. His ambition grew gradually after pushed out from Terra and the Sol system, gaining confidence and being egged on by those under him to claim all of humanity. Why did imperial institutions have a poor start with bad foundations leading to the Heresy? The guy in charge was a conqueror before all else. All the science stuff was by the brightest minds he collected like Pokemon.

2. Primarchs were not ubermänchen.
As the Emperor is not a super scientist, where does that leave his sons? The answer is that they are Not his sons. They were born on the worlds where they were found. Neither were they promoted to head of their respective legions once found, they took the long way via centuries long service and acclaim amounts legionnaires recruited from their home worlds. They are not unimportant or unskilled at all, but their overall strength at their height would measure at about above that of a 41st millennium Chapter Master due to better technology, with higher skill at the things they were known for.


So how does Chaos play into this? Well I think the problem with the Ruinous Powers as written is that they are to monolithic. If Chaos is supposed to be true to its namesake then why is the depictions of its influence so stale. Each of the four only have one type of Greater Demon, one type of Lesser Demon and two kinds of war beast, one which is mounted by demons or mortal champions.

The reason for this is the table top game, where the confines of selling figures and keeping a concise army list natural constrains the variety in the game. Not inherently objectionable. So why does the fiction outside the game feel the need to be constrained by those limitations.

1. Chaos demons are legion.
The types of demons you are familiar with are simply the best known to mortals. In reality there are potentially countless different types of demons, sometimes overlapping with others in the warp. When demonic armies are summoned onto the material plane they may include those you are familiar with, mixed in with a cacophonous, colourful riot of the different varieties of creatures. If the warp is suposed to be a space with no hard and fast rules then the entities serve the Dark Powers should display a far greater variety that the tabletop allowed in the written fiction.

2. Borders are non-material and fickle things.
If the Warp is to be a place where tha laws that hold real-space together are mere suggestions, then shouldn't an already illusionary human concept such as borders. So why should there only be demons of a single Ruinous Power. A demon types alignment should generally be on a gradient between the Big Four, with some being easier for a casual observer to place on the spectrum than others. That should enable a more nuanced variety of demons and make room for Chaos Undivided types, after all those kinds of Demon Princes have to go somewhere. Likewise on the border territory between the Big Four there also exists demons that represent amalgamations between the powers contesting the area. Their mixed nature and shaky allegiance makes them loose canons to demons from the core territories, but still useful to keep onside, for however long it lasts.

This also means that the distinction between Greater and Lesser Demons is rarely a clear cut thing. A demons influence can not always be measured by the size of their form in the physical realm. That human sized suit of crimson animated armor might just be one of the most respected smiths from the Slayer Forge, who is bowed to by even Khorne's Heralds and smaller Bloodthirsters. It's a toss up weather a first impression is correct, especially anything that has some Tzeench in it.

3. The Big Four are not the real masterminds, sort of.
This might be a bit tricky to explain. The entities known as Khorne, Slaneesh, Nurgle and Tzeench are not really the ones in charge of the show. They are more like geographical features, built from the base emption that provide their core. Think of them like Azathoth of Lovecraft lore, large blind idiots who's existence regardless effects the universe around them.

The true movers and shakers of the Ruinous Powers are the demons that generally occupy the step above the Greater Demons. There is no single name for this category of demons, variously known as Eidolons, Grand Princes, Supreme Demons and others, these are the most powerful beings that are capable of fully sentient thought and awareness to interact with the Materium. These are the leaders of each of the four "factions" as any mortal knowledgeable enough may know them, with those not fully aligned with one reigning in the border territories between the four.

Any gifts granted that are attributed to one of the four was most likely given by one of the Grand Princes. Gifts of Chaos and other phenomena that benefit the mortal followers of Chaos are caused by individual or multiple demons working in concert. Most mortal followers are unaware of the internal workings of the Realm of Chaos, the theology of the four gods is essentially simplification to quickly explain Chaos to mortals and a convenient fiction to make Chaos appear more omniscient then it really is. It is also an expedient fiction for the Arch-Fiends of the four to spin. Even in hell you can't escape politics.


The problem of canons Chaos Gods is that one of the main threats of the setting are four one dimensional super beings, which fail to be interesting on their own or individually as they frequently dominate plots when handled poorly. Likewise having to constantly resort to capriciousness to resolve the question to why the forces of chaos often seem to self-sabotage becomes worn out quickly.
The way Chaos works here is largely lifted from this post by Ganonso, who has also done other interesting wold building of the divine side of things for their Warhammer quests.

The final big alterations are ones that have hefty consequences for the 41st millennium:

1. Sorry Jim, the Primarchs are dead.
As far as I am concerned that Primarchs served their narrative purpose after the Heresy's immediate aftermath. The ones who canonically became Demon Princes have noting really narratively to do, and mostly did not seem to really deserve their Demonhod, being how arduous it is supposed to be to obtain. Likewise for those that would disappear wandering into the void, makes for good mythology that their Chapters to tell over the course of millennia, but best left as stories. They to died long ago. The Imperium of the present can not depend on old legends of the past to save them, not can the Arch-Enemy rely on its early champions to drive its forces to its final victory.

2. Abbadon died in one of the early Black Crusades.
I hear that he has been better written recently, but I don't like that for all of 10,000 years only one person is allowed to lead 13 Black Crusades. Why make it the same guy over and over again when you can have multiple diffrent individuals leading the diffrent Crusades. One of the supposed tenets of Chaos worship is that those most capable make it to the top. That would mean that the position of Warmaster should be up for grabs to whoever can convince most the forces in the Eye of Terror to back them, most importantly the Traitor Legions and the big demons in the warp.

It could to possibles such as a magos of the Dark Mechanicus taking the reigns, leading to a Crusade that is particularly targeted toward the loyalist Mechanicus. It could be highly successful Chaos Reaver who leads the Crusade more as if it was a large plunder expedition. With multible types of Warmaster it can make each Crusade have its own character, it's overal goals and execution differing according to each Warmaster motivation and personality. It would also lead to tales of politicking, of both the diplomatic and violent kind leading up to a Crusades launch. It can also mean wacky shenanigans such as major contingents disapproving of a winning candidate, but without sufficient power to contest the choice resort to to boycotting the Black Crusade, starting their own not-Black Crusade in protest.


Conceiving of this has been inspired by open-scetch's quest Suffer Not. Thought I have regretfully negligent in reading for a while, it is and excellent read with great world building for the setting. The parts where Space Marines get focus are ones that I will take inspiration from in writing them outside of combat.


Nice!

I quite like the primarchs, myself, but I do see the reasoning behind axing them. Interested to read anything you write

Out of interest - would you be changing any other factions?
 
Nice!

I quite like the primarchs, myself, but I do see the reasoning behind axing them. Interested to read anything you write

Out of interest - would you be changing any other factions?

To that extent, no. I don't have the same drive to alter aspects of the other factions as much. One thing I would bring in is from another quest open-sketch co-authoring with Artificial Girl, called Right-hand Woman, about a Leman Russ tanker. In it orks are portrayed as much more cunning then in most material, not stupid as they are often stereotyped as, just with different priorities then other intelligent species and paired with an uncanny recklessness.
I don't have any major revisions for the other aliens, save perhaps some checks on the memetic Dark Eldar backtabbery, society's got to have limits on that suff if it's goint to survive long term. I am open to trading ideas though.
 
So you're trying to butcher the setting, change everything in it until it's unrecognizable then shit on what's left it fits your own view of 'how it should be'. Shouldn't you just drop the pretenses and just make your own setting?
 
So you're trying to butcher the setting, change everything in it until it's unrecognizable then shit on what's left it fits your own view of 'how it should be'. Shouldn't you just drop the pretenses and just make your own setting?

its... still incredibly recognisable. they havent changed all that much, like, at all?

still an imperium, still an emperor on a golden throne, still chaos gods in the warp, still space marines, et cetera.

theyve changed very little about the bones of the setting, theyve just changed some basically surface level stuff.
 
So you're trying to butcher the setting, change everything in it until it's unrecognizable then shit on what's left it fits your own view of 'how it should be'. Shouldn't you just drop the pretenses and just make your own setting?
It's like you've never heard of fan fiction until today.

the point of transformative works is to transform. 40k-official-fluff-as-mythologized-history is honestly pretty tame compared to Coffee Shop AU.
 
So you're trying to butcher the setting, change everything in it until it's unrecognizable then shit on what's left it fits your own view of 'how it should be'. Shouldn't you just drop the pretenses and just make your own setting?

If you don't like then you just had to say so. For the sake of courtesy could you atleast provide your reasoning for why you don't like it. Besides, one of the implicit rules of fanfiction is that it is only as beholden to official canon as individuals writers chose to. Are you trying to state that 40k is uniquely exempt from this?

As a further aside, how have you enjoyed Suffer Not? I hope the authors political stances, very not subtly part of the text, has not been off putting has it?
 
They had an Athame as a museum piece.
I think they would have to have at least a little attention to be in the position to yoink something like that.

The main problem with the Interex is that, well, they missed a whole Chaos agent in front of them, mistake an innocent person for a Chaos agent, and kept all their Chaos artifacts in a museum where they can be easily nicked. That does not sound like they're great at dealing with Chaos.

That is ignoring the fact they had no idea what it was and it was very likely Chaos wanted them to have it for Erebus to steal it.
 
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It seems to me that it was pretty darn easy for chaos to infiltrate the imperium. The fact that there wasn't any sort of screening to prevent Erebus from getting away with so much of what he did...

like I don't think the imperium has a good case for being *good* at fighting chaos. Chaos wins people over most often by pointing out how shitty the imperium is and saying "hey how about an alternative?"
 
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Why are you asking me?

But like. Any of the ones that didn't directly worship the Chaos gods. Half the Imperium fell to Chaos. At least. That's not a high bar.

So no evidence then? Chaos actively conspired against the Imperium and succeeded through a multicultural and multispecies empire that thought they understood Chaos. Unless you have evidence that other polities actively resisted Chaos while having the Chaos Gods turn their full attention on them, then you would have a point.
 
So no evidence then? Chaos actively conspired against the Imperium and succeeded through a multicultural and multispecies empire that thought they understood Chaos. Unless you have evidence that other polities actively resisted Chaos while having the Chaos Gods turn their full attention on them, then you would have a point.

Since you seem to have directed your initial inquiry towards my write up, I should inform you it would only be polite to address me directly.

Now that I have your attention, cease with the book thumping. It happened because the authors of whatever books you got that from put their thumbs on the scale to make the imperialist superpower look good. I argue against that beyond the text itself and on the level of writing intend. I reject that nonsense because if the Imperium is supposed to be the bad end, then it should not be in any way justified. The fiction is not a hard science, GW can change anything in it on a whim, so pretending that your knowledge on the books events give your words weight is mistaken.

And if you have actually read my big write up, then you would know that I reject the whole premise you base your assumptions on. It's not like the 'Gods' can direct their full force on something when they are not aware of much of anything in the first place and the entities speaking for them are as busy competing with each other as they are trying to gain footholds in the Materium.
 
Since you seem to have directed your initial inquiry towards my write up, I should inform you it would only be polite to address me directly.

Now that I have your attention, cease with the book thumping. It happened because the authors of whatever books you got that from put their thumbs on the scale to make the imperialist superpower look good. I argue against that beyond the text itself and on the level of writing intend. I reject that nonsense because if the Imperium is supposed to be the bad end, then it should not be in any way justified. The fiction is not a hard science, GW can change anything in it on a whim, so pretending that your knowledge on the books events give your words weight is mistaken.

And if you have actually read my big write up, then you would know that I reject the whole premise you base your assumptions on. It's not like the 'Gods' can direct their full force on something when they are not aware of much of anything in the first place and the entities speaking for them are as busy competing with each other as they are trying to gain footholds in the Materium.

I must have pinged the wrong person. No matter. Yes, GW absolutely can, but they do not. There can be no state that can resist Chaos when their full attention is turned to them. At least not without the Emperor at the helm. Do note I am not justifying the cruelty of the Imperium.

As for the full focus of Chaos? Even if the Gods were not focused on the Emperor, their minions set aside their differences to put the Emperor on the Throne. Even then they still keep an eye on him and circle him like sharks.

Edit: rereading your post it is largely about your fiction and your take on the 40k universe. As you are the author I cannot say anything about how you want to take it beyond my opinions, which I feel are anathema to how you wish to write. Go ahead.
 
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I must have pinged the wrong person. No matter. Yes, GW absolutely can, but they do not. There can be no state that can resist Chaos when their full attention is turned to them. At least not without the Emperor at the helm. Do note I am not justifying the cruelty of the Imperium.

As for the full focus of Chaos? Even if the Gods were not focused on the Emperor, their minions set aside their differences to put the Emperor on the Throne. Even then they still keep an eye on him and circle him like sharks.

They have multible times in the past. You say you do not justify, but you are still dancing uncritically along to the same premises that I reject on a fundamental level, beyond what some hack in the Black Library put to page.

Also have I not already said that thumping "canon" like a fundamentalist will not make you any more convincing? My write-up is Explicetely Not compliant with official canon. So do you have anything to say about it that does not rely on the same arguments i have seen regurgitated over and over again when anyone challenges the assumptions of the setting?
 
They have multible times in the past. You say you do not justify, but you are still dancing uncritically along to the same premises that I reject on a fundamental level, beyond what some hack in the Black Library put to page.

Also have I not already said that thumping "canon" like a fundamentalist will not make you any more convincing? My write-up is Explicetely Not compliant with official canon. So do you have anything to say about it that does not rely on the same arguments i have seen regurgitated over and over again when anyone challenges the assumptions of the setting?
Edit: rereading your post it is largely about your fiction and your take on the 40k universe. As you are the author I cannot say anything about how you want to take it beyond my opinions, which I feel are anathema to how you wish to write. Go ahead.

Already addressed.

Edit: I did mention no state can resist the full force of Chaos without the Emperor at the helm. Meaning I believe only the Emperor can create a better state that resists Chaos, which he unfortunately did not. This is markedly different from 'If the Imperium does not do these cruel acts humanity is lost,'.
 
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So would you mind sharing?

As in, they're your works, feel free to write however you wish. So long as it brings joy to you (primarily you) and your readers, I see no reason why not to write it. Your premise is interesting and grants leeway for people to live normal lives and harder to justify the cruelty in the Imperium. Do ping me when you post it.
 
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As in, they're your works, feel free to write however you wish. So long as it brings joy to you (primarily you) and your readers, I see no reason why not to write it. Your premise is interesting and grants leeway for people to live normal lives and harder to justify the cruelty in the Imperium. Do ping me when you post it.

Thanks! Sorry for being a bit snippy there earlier. I am somewhat primed to expect arguments appealing to canon to often be made to dismiss dissenting opinions. Even more so when the second person to respond to my ideas basically saying every thing I wrote was garbage without contributing anything to the discussion. No hard feelings?
 
There can be no state that can resist Chaos when their full attention is turned to them. At least not without the Emperor at the helm.

Why not?

It isn't a law of the universe, its just how the books seem on the face to be written?

None of the other factions in 40k have an "emperor" but there's no suggestion that, like, the Necrons would be totally fucked if Chaos focused on them? Kinda... to the contrary of that, actually.
 
Thanks! Sorry for being a bit snippy there earlier. I am somewhat primed to expect arguments appealing to canon to often be made to dismiss dissenting opinions. Even more so when the second person to respond to my ideas basically saying every thing I wrote was garbage without contributing anything to the discussion. No hard feelings?

No worries. I was at fault for not reading the type of thread this was and assuming you were claiming something about the canon. This rests squarely on me. No hard feelings.

Why not?

It isn't a law of the universe, its just how the books seem on the face to be written?

None of the other factions in 40k have an "emperor" but there's no suggestion that, like, the Necrons would be totally fucked if Chaos focused on them? Kinda... to the contrary of that, actually.

Necrons have no souls. Orks have their own Gods so powerful Chaos generally leaves them alone. Eldar have ways to circumvent it but even they were failing until they created their own God. Though I thought it was clear I meant human polities since the discussion was about the Imperium being flawed.
 
Thanks! Sorry for being a bit snippy there earlier. I am somewhat primed to expect arguments appealing to canon to often be made to dismiss dissenting opinions. Even more so when the second person to respond to my ideas basically saying every thing I wrote was garbage without contributing anything to the discussion. No hard feelings?
Look if you are writing Fanfic you are the writer and you can do whatever you like. It is when people start making claims that their interpretation is more correct than offical books that people start bringin out canon to back their own different interpretatitons.

You see this a lot about Emperor because it is a hot mess that every writer just kept sticking their stuff in. Every body has their own ideas backed by differing amount canon lore. And sometimes somebody shows up with unpopular idea that has no canon backing but still becomes better known than others, well every fandom has such problems but 40k is probably in the lead and that is why you get such vitrolic debates. I mean I heard people talk about Emperor and later admit that they know nothing about 40k aside from what they saw in TTS you can guess why fans have so little patience. Not that it makes it better but more understandable I guess.

It is what it is.
 
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