Me thinks Jayne is going to have a new job tomorrow, and James a new employee, no way is he going to let such a resource slip away. Not to mention polidna is going to want to meet him and if their is anyone on remnant that could glean something from transistor, it' him.
Hold It In (RWBY/Transistor)
- Thread starter Prok
- Start date
- Crossover
ADeshantis
King on the Chromium Throne
- Location
- United states
So, with all the meaningful names (Jaune Arc = Jeanne d'Arc, Yang Xiao Long = Sun Little Dragon, Belladonna being poisonous and Blake almost disintegrating RWBY), has anyone figured out if Polendina means anything?
Prok
Go play Star Fetchers
- Location
- Scotland
Julius Arc took up arms in the Colour Wars and eventually fought alongside the last Valish king.The palette would suggest it too is a Grey Era weapon, but it was in fact built during the Colour Wars themselves, as... there's no polite way to put this- cannon fodder weaponry.
The Atlesians could afford to outfit their infantry with that kind of kit- absolutely cutting edge for the time, and their grunts had that. Not that it did the last poor bastard who had it any good when Julius fell into the trench and just kept stabbing until he broke the knife off in his sternum.
Without a weapon, he picked up the sword and shealth, and it served him until he finally put it upon the mantle, and lived the rest of his days quietly, trying not to think about the man he took it off of.
Er... basically what you got. If you had resorted to violence and somehow managed to not kill anybody, chances are Ironwood would have killed you anyway and claimed self-defence. Not that he would have been wrong to.
You might be stronger than canon Jaune, but you don't get to join the Atlesian military, let alone its spec ops division, let alone lead that spec ops division alongside the rest of the damn military, by losing to a trainee Huntsman.
Would he have come out unscathed? Not if Blue had anything to say about it.
It depends entirely on whether or not Jaune survived the initial fighting.
If he didn't? Very much so. The Transistor's morals are entirely user-centric. It is just a tool, just, one capable of feeling protective, or, in this case, vengeful. On top of that, it's generally limited by its need to either protect Jaune, or hold back so it doesn't accidentally kill anyone.
If Jaune did die, one, the Process would just Grey Goo the place to try and take down Ironwood, and the Transistor would probably turn it into a smoking crater before it could even get that far. Hell, it would probably just fire Spin() at him until he was either dead or it overheated to the point of frying its cores.
If he didn't and was just knocked unconscious, or otherwise incapacitated... coin flip chance. The Transistor isn't suited to wielding itself, and it would be more focused on protecting Jaune from further harm, but when you can essentially permanently Turn(), you have all the time in the world to figure out how to kill the person in front of you.
Ironically, your sword is most dangerous when you're not holding it.
When you've spent years having your TV shows and movies beamed straight into your head, it's astonishingly difficult to go back. It is also incredibly subtle and probably appropriate for a fourth wheel so you don't intrude on the conversation.
Maybe I should have made that a little clearer, but I was already ten minutes over my deadline.
See above. Don't worry, you'll get it soon enough.
Polendina is a reference to Geppetto from the original Adventures of Pinocchio by Carlo Collodi- in it, Mister Geppetto was an incredibly poor old man who tried to make a living by carving puppets. His nickname, Polendina, came from his wig, which resembled cornmeal mush in colour, and his neighbours called him that to annoy him. It's just a bad nickname.
It's the one bit of RWBY which has my honest respect- so many people think the Disney movie is the only version of the story, and it makes me sad because Collodi's book was one of my favourites as a child, so seeing it referenced over the movie for the first time was really nice.
Seriously, go find and read the original story if you can- it's a great story in its own right, and it teaches the lessons better than the movie ever could.
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CaesriusPolybius
Worldgate Mechanic
- Location
- United States. Ish.
Apparently it was a mean nickname given to Gepetto because of his wig? According to wikipedia, anyways.
Edit: oh, QM ninja. Neat.
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ADeshantis
King on the Chromium Throne
- Location
- United states
So that's why everyone refers to him as "Gepetto Polendina" in RWBY fanfic.
- Location
- A state of cleverness
Co-signed. Everyone knows about the color rule, but basically no one writing stuff for RWBY follows the story rule, where every character references some myth, story or pop culture element. There's you and like... one other rando I can't remember and that's it.
But hell, v5 might have moved away from that unless someone knows who/what Vernal was supposed to be.
ADeshantis
King on the Chromium Throne
- Location
- United states
I thought that wasn't a rule so much as a pattern, because most of the teams or groups of peers have a theme going. RWBY and fairy tales, JNPR and crossdressers, then Ozpin, Glynda, Ironwood, and Lionheart are all Wizard of Oz references, but then you have people like Arslan and May and Sage who don't seem to correspond with anything.
Unless they do and I missed it.
Unless they do and I missed it.
- Location
- Maybe?
I'm sorry, but I just fundamentally don't see how that could be the case.
Not every defense from an attack, even a lethal attack, is legally self-defense. Self-defense is action in defense of a protected good, such as property or bodily integrity, against illegitimate force. That means you fundamentally can't self-defend against somebody else's self-defense! If somebody is attacking you in the course of defending themselves against an illegitimate attack (or threat of attack!) on a protected good, then their use of violence is legitimate, meaning that counter-violence does not fall under self-defense because the violence being employed against you is legitimate in the first place, at least until the threat you pose is conclusively averted. For the same reason you can't claim self-defense against police doing their lawful duty. (Which, no, Ironwood did not fall under.)
At least that's how it works in German law, by my reading.
Unless laws in RWBY are a lot more callous about military intervention against civilians... and somehow I doubt that Ironwood declared a tiny localized state of emergency just for Jaune. In any case it still wouldn't be self-defense, just military action. Against civilians. Of your own country. Edit: of a different country! Wow. That's somehow even worse. Can you say "casus belli"?
Edit: And before you ask, yes, defending another person is still self-defense.
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ADeshantis
King on the Chromium Throne
- Location
- United states
Well, you're right, but James Ironwood is in fact The Law.
only in Atlas, we're in vale and he just pulled a gun on a Vale citizen.
Prok
Go play Star Fetchers
- Location
- Scotland
I don't know why, it's basically carte blanche to rip shit off with extreme prejudice. I'm not even gonna hide it at this point, there's not an original idea on display in this quest. Anywhere.
Seriously, go ahead, pick out any character and I will tell you exactly what they're a reference to. I promise you that you will find, at most, three truly original characters out of a cast that's technically around 50.
Also as far as Vernal goes, she seems to be more of an astrological reference. The vernal equinox, or spring equinox if you're not a prat, is the beginning of the new astrological year, when the sun passes into Aries, the first section of the astrological calendar.
While she does carry some traits normally associated with the star sign, those are tenuous connections at best. So either that rule's been dropped and her references are purely coincidental, or to throw people off, or it's been expanded to more abstract things so they can beat us over the head with more references.
All that matters is what the police see at the end of the day. Even ignoring the legal process for the moment, you think Ironwood can't hide a gun from cameras?
At the end of the day, he'd be grilled for being suspicious as all hell, but there wouldn't be enough concrete evidence to actually prove he provoked you into attacking him. That's all assuming the Transistor didn't turn him into a nuclear shadow on the wall, mind.
As far as the world would know, you suddenly snapped, tried to kill an Atlesian general, then your sword went berserk and blew up a train station to try and finish the job.
And it's not as if you'd be around to protest the ruling. In all probability, neither would Ironwood.
- Location
- Maybe?
I'm not disagreeing with that.
Ironwood can sure make it look like self-defense. But that doesn't change the fact that legally, it simply isn't. I'm just arguing law, not outcome, since you made it sound like you thought he was legally in the right.
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- Location
- A state of cleverness
Good point, I haven't seen one.
Huntsman are extra legal entities in the first place. All Ironwood'd have to do is talk about a clear and present danger to the city and nation and he'd get off. The famiily pitching a fit might damage Ironwood's personal reputation but the whole of the Atlesian high command closing ranks around him would blunt that as well.
Sorta like cops blowing people away in the states, and that's before the Transistor's disproportionate response corroborates Ironwood's version of events.
just got an idea to for needling Ironwood in a way he can't be mad about: check for a security hole bounty program run by Atlas and set the transistor to find every hole in it. we then get his email from penny and send him a snarky version of the report while the professional one is sent to the bounty program.
we get to make fun of their programing skills and they can't be too mad since we're being helpful.
we get to make fun of their programing skills and they can't be too mad since we're being helpful.
ADeshantis
King on the Chromium Throne
- Location
- United states
Look, Ironwood was a jerk, but he wasn't doing it for no reason. Maybe we should just... De-escalate. Let it go and move on, make sure it doesn't happen again, and content ourselves with the knowledge that, as was stated earlier, our not-even-Beacon-student self has more advanced technology than the bleeding edge from anywhere between 5 to 10 times past the projected end of life as we know it.
Just knowing that will get his goat more than anything we could actually do to him.
Just knowing that will get his goat more than anything we could actually do to him.
- Location
- Maybe?
Most people holding guns in other people's backs, including muggers and rapists, are doing it for a reason.
The only case I can see, personally, to not hand recordings over to the police, the military and the media is that it might ruin their adorable robodate.
Look at it like this.
Imagine the canon Vytal tournament happens. Do you want Pyrrha to get shot by Ironwood? Because the man clearly has impaired impulse control that's frankly a danger to those around him, especially considering his station.
The only case I can see, personally, to not hand recordings over to the police, the military and the media is that it might ruin their adorable robodate.
Look at it like this.
Imagine the canon Vytal tournament happens. Do you want Pyrrha to get shot by Ironwood? Because the man clearly has impaired impulse control that's frankly a danger to those around him, especially considering his station.
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SneakyWalrus
Is the Water Free?
- Location
- Box of Granola bars
Imma try and play Devils Advocate here, and correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Penny a one of a kind researsch project that came alive? My point is that she's LITERALLY irreplaceable and I'm kinda surprised Ironwood didn't come with backup.
- Location
- USA
She's also top secret and he probably wanted to keep it on the down low. Ironwood is one of the strongest hunters Altas has, if he can't handle this himself the resulting fight will quickly draw Ozpins attention and he'll have backup soon anyway.
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CaesriusPolybius
Worldgate Mechanic
- Location
- United States. Ish.
As for how Ironwood acted: I could be mistaken and confusing canon with another quest I follow on here, but doesn't James also kind of fill a "father" role as far as Penny goes?
Or in other words, if that's correct and not just me getting confused with fanon, not only did he think we were possibly trying to kidnap a valuable experimental AI that was the first of its kind, he thought we were trying to kidnap his daughter.
In that context, I can't really blame him too much for his behavior/actions...
EDIT:
Or in other words, if that's correct and not just me getting confused with fanon, not only did he think we were possibly trying to kidnap a valuable experimental AI that was the first of its kind, he thought we were trying to kidnap his daughter.
In that context, I can't really blame him too much for his behavior/actions...
EDIT:
He's not just a huntsman, he's an important military official and, IIRC, a member of the council. Presumably there are some important extra rules on his actions, given that.
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ADeshantis
King on the Chromium Throne
- Location
- United states
It seems like a lot of people have this idea, but I'm really not sure it's a good one, because as much as...
OK, point of order. I'm going to make my argument using some information we don't have yet, because counterarguments are using information we don't have yet, and information that might not exist. Specifically, I'm going to use the fact that the Headmasters are all together on the Salem problem, and the fact that we are going to get involved, somehow. It's on our character sheet and everything.
So, as much as it might make sense to file that report and everything, we need to look at this as a utility question.
What do we gain, and what does it cost?
Immediately, we gain a vindictive sense of satisfaction, and lose the adorable robodate. Already I don't exactly like this tradeoff when we can take a smug sense of satisfaction at being ten times what humanity can achieve on its own before it falls.
Middle distance, like 6 months to a year from now, we gain nothing, but we've damaged our working relationship with a Headmaster and an entire country's military. We probably have a subplot where Winter Schnee crawls our ass on James' behalf in true Drill Instructor fashion to make sure we don't start shit, and if we've set the precedent of starting shit with Atlas, we probably start shit anyway, this time with the second strongest Hunter in Atlas. This is a particularly undesirable outcome because of two things.
1) WE WILL HAVE ALREADY PISSED OF THE STRONGEST HUNTER IN ATLAS.
2) WE NEED THESE PEOPLE TO LIKE US TO MAKE OUR WIN CONDITION EASIER.
In the long run, best case scenario, we need to subdue Atlas to achieve our win condition of assimilating everything and annihilating the Grimm. Worst case scenario, James Ironwood and Winter Schnee go hunt a Goliath or six and then proceed to stomp our ass with sheer mangrit and a nigh-endless, resummonable elephant army.
But most importantly, we don't get anything worthwhile from reporting James, we waste everyone's time, and we need him to like us.
Edit: Also, reporting IronDad to the cops will probably make Penny sad. You know, in case you're the type of person who doesn't give a fuck about the long game.
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- Location
- Jaburo
And here we see the other side of that "We're the main character which makes us special" attitude I noted before.
Namely a belief that anyone who crosses us clearly must be destroyed for daring to not worship the ground on which we walk.
Ironwood doesn't have impulse control problems. He had a legitimate assumption of a massive threat to security. Hell it wouldn't have been entirely ureasonable for him to assume, based on the partial chat logs, that we were working for Salem. The fact is, he could have just taken us out and made it look like we crossed some criminal group or other.
Namely a belief that anyone who crosses us clearly must be destroyed for daring to not worship the ground on which we walk.
Ironwood doesn't have impulse control problems. He had a legitimate assumption of a massive threat to security. Hell it wouldn't have been entirely ureasonable for him to assume, based on the partial chat logs, that we were working for Salem. The fact is, he could have just taken us out and made it look like we crossed some criminal group or other.
ADeshantis
King on the Chromium Throne
- Location
- United states
I almost want to sig this, it resonates with me so well.
Fredo
Climbing Mt Doom
Personally, I think that Ironwood acted like a fucking moron. He went in, assuming the worst. He held a kid at gun point. And now he just found out he alienated someone who has technology 500 years ahead of anything he can produce. By any stretch of the imagination, that was a epic fail on his part that could have be avoided if he had bothered doing any research at all.
He could have just had Penny put off the rendezvous for a few days or a week or two to give more time to do a background check. He could have had her communicate with Transistor some more while he was watching the live feeds and fed her questions while backtracing the signal. He didn't bother doing any of this. Instead, he decided to go Rambo/James Bond and ended up making himself look like an utter moron since he didn't bother doing basic fieldwork beforehand. /golfclap
That said:
Personally, I think we should be far more focused on ensuring that we aren't put in this situation ever again. Like talking to Transistor and ensuring that he has standing orders that if someone (outside of a training ring) has the drop on us, that he gets us out of that situation (or burns their hands off or something).
I do think that it is probably worth sharing the recordings with our parents and getting their reaction/advice. Also talk to them about how to keep people from ambushing us like that. Maybe get some training in situational awareness - its possible/probable that we are depending far too much on Transistor's sensors. They are great, but we just had an example of what happens when they don't work.
He could have just had Penny put off the rendezvous for a few days or a week or two to give more time to do a background check. He could have had her communicate with Transistor some more while he was watching the live feeds and fed her questions while backtracing the signal. He didn't bother doing any of this. Instead, he decided to go Rambo/James Bond and ended up making himself look like an utter moron since he didn't bother doing basic fieldwork beforehand. /golfclap
That said:
Where's the money? What's the benefit? This doesn't actually achieve anything other than satisfy a desire for revenge and it doesn't even do that very well. It won't actually accomplish anything other than possibly embarrassing and annoying Ironwood and it burns bridges we 'might' want in the future. So why do something to satisfy our sense of spite since it won't actually accomplish anything productive.
Personally, I think we should be far more focused on ensuring that we aren't put in this situation ever again. Like talking to Transistor and ensuring that he has standing orders that if someone (outside of a training ring) has the drop on us, that he gets us out of that situation (or burns their hands off or something).
I do think that it is probably worth sharing the recordings with our parents and getting their reaction/advice. Also talk to them about how to keep people from ambushing us like that. Maybe get some training in situational awareness - its possible/probable that we are depending far too much on Transistor's sensors. They are great, but we just had an example of what happens when they don't work.