Hmmph... this junior is a good seed [Cultivation Management Quest]

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Old Cannibal has 5 Nascents on hand including himself

Any such "disadvantageous fight" has a very real chance of going sideways for the Wei Princess very quickly
I wonder just how much effort Old Cannibal is having to put into cat herding at the moment. Xia Xinyue and Gengxin hate each other and will never directly cooperate, but with 4 subordinate now they don't have so. I have no idea how Old Fish's relationship work in context he has abandoned everything which means what he does now is hard to predict. I suspect that Hu Ai is the obvious pawn to use for any of the others to use in a scheme against Old Cannibal.

Another question how willing would we be to work with a blood path nascent? We have done it before with Old Cannibal no less, but this would be a more permeant arrangement. I feel like we might be able to arrange something with Hu Ai or Old Fish.
 
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Very willing. Hu Ai and Old Fish are his strongest underlings, so diverting or subverting them is important. We'd have to have Manuel watch them, though, our Early Nascents are delicious.
 
Hu Ai is working at a massive combat penalty due to being as young as she is.

Remember, the 300 year old Mid Nascent Heaven-Defying Talent had all of their stats at Low, including Combat. That was the major drawback of choosing that path, by the way. High talent, but very inexperienced due to that talent.

Hu Ai is two centuries younger than that, so the situation is even worse for her.

Essentially, while she's a Mid, I don't think she's necessarily one of the two strongest underlings of OC.
 
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Seems to me the play is to simply Economy our foes, since everyone's going to be busy trying to claim clay in the chaos, we can build up, and do things to enhance our power so when OC is ready to roll at us we can answer him with solid enough defenses he won't be able to storm into us.
That, or we make a point of reaching out to our fellow Righteous Path allies, because dangit we seriously need to rally together or Old Cannibal will eat us all, with 5 Nacents aside from himself.
 
Very willing. Hu Ai and Old Fish are his strongest underlings, so diverting or subverting them is important. We'd have to have Manuel watch them, though, our Early Nascents are delicious.
The problem with having blood path nascent elders. Is that unless we are willing to sacrifice our own people* we then have to be at constant war.

Old Fish tried to rejoin the righteous path after his madness and was rebuffed. It seems like he joined Old Cannibal for lack of other options. So he might be willing to join us and then he can join in the blood war under our banner in the same way we can, but it would be sort of awkward.

*We might be able to swing it with our people that have reached the end of their lifespan, but that is a really hard sell. Old Fish would have to do some very grand gesture to help sell it.
 
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The problem with having blood path nascent elders. Is that unless we are willing to sacrifice our own people* we then have to be at constant war.

Old Fish tried to rejoin the righteous path after his madness and was rebuffed. It seems like he joined Old Cannibal for lack of other options. So he might be willing to join us and then he can join in the blood war under our banner in the same way we can, but it would be sort of awkward.

*We might be able to swing it with our people that have reached the end of their lifespan, but that is a really hard sell. Old Fish would have to do some very grand gesture to help sell it.
our best bet might just be to be willing to work with him, and grant him an honorable death. Unless he's totally lost himself to the blood path and the quest to get stronger. But if he's still Righteous at heart, we might be able to make something work.
 
Seems to me the play is to simply Economy our foes, since everyone's going to be busy trying to claim clay in the chaos, we can build up, and do things to enhance our power so when OC is ready to roll at us we can answer him with solid enough defenses he won't be able to storm into us.
Is that possible? What could we build that would keep 5 Nascents (or 4 if we can sway one), from rolling over us? They are all individually more powerful than what we have as well.
 
After discussing things over and over with TehChron and others, we have a general three-turn plan in the works to get us as strong as possible by the time the next Trial rolls around.

Turn 13:
Blood of Silver
Millenium Oasis Formation
USP
Gravity
Wealth Action with Kleisthenes
Wealth Action with Clan
Manuel helps Nascentbowl the Blacksmith rebel in exchange for the Bronze Spear and Shield(we'll probably need to make Manuel the primary combatant to sweeten the deal, but that's the cost of doing business)
Send Legions to the SPS

Turn 14:
No purchases
Wealth Action with Manuel
Wealth Action with Kleisthenes
Wealth Action with Clan

Turn 15:
Fix the Technique Palace to the Foundation level
Whatever else we can afford with leftover purchases
Raising Soldiers with Clan
Whatever Nascent actions are appropriate

A full turn of not buying anything is pretty painful, but by taking this series of actions, we can all but guarantee that we'll have enough purchases to fix the Palace, no matter how poorly our Wealth Actions go, simply through the sheer number of them, plus whatever the SPS pays us.

Plus, having the palace we lost so many Clansmen to get in one Trial come in clutch for a later Trial is delightfully poetic.

@TehChron did I get it all right?
 
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I'm no TehChron, and I've not been paying attention to what's going on. What I DO know is OC is building up to overwhelming force, and already is too powerful to attack directly, and he's going to be looking to suppress us if we move out. So, don't move out, turtle up and economy.
Beats walking out and getting stomped and losing valuable hard to replace Nascents right?
 
Gaius Antonius & Abel Angelus - Deal With The Devil
Gaius Antonius & Abel Angelus - Deal With The Devil
Abel looks around his office. It was in far worse shape than in his last meeting with Gaius. The fight during the blood rain had really messed the place up and Abel still hadn't repaired all the damage.

Abel winces as the door falls down when Gaius knocks on it.

"Welcome, sorry about the mess, have a seat."

Striding carefully around the damage, Gaius approached the central desk. He raised one foot up high to step right into the guest chair, rather than pull it back and risk a cracked leg falling off entirely.

Neither man spoke for a few moments. Gaius took a few deep breaths, biting the inside of his cheek as he pondered how to approach things. He certainly looked different; more than just rejuvenated, the man carried a physical confidence and almost otherworldly grace which he'd never before demonstrated. Rather than the typical coat and hat, he had come dressed in a drab brown robe with a hood that hid his whole body, having not wanted to be noticed.

"I imagine this meeting carries a… more complicated feeling than I first intended." Gaius eventually said quietly.

"Well you were at least right in that you would come back a king." Abel gestures to the damaged room. "I am just lucky that I am apparently a horrible fighter as a blood hungry bezarker. Just had a slap fight with a junior until it was over."

"I am, at least, glad you came out of it alright. I haven't got a clue how it happened - nobody really knows what happened at all. I…" Gaius sighed, seemingly not up for digging into the things he had seen. "I encountered many things. Things I'll never speak of. Things I want to speak of but can't right now. Things I couldn't describe even if I wanted to. But yes, I did make it."

With that, Gaius pulled back his hood, revealing a strange new feature: a third eye, set into the middle of his forehead and housed in a horizontal socket. "Couldn't tell you where this came from, and it's not even the biggest change my body's gone through."

Abel gets a somewhat creepy gleam in his eye "How deeply have you looked at the changes. Like have you examined exactly how your new eye connects to your brain? Do you have a whole new optic nerve? A whole new section of your brain to decode the input?"

"From what I've been told, an entirely new nerve. My… I think they called it the 'occipital lobe'. That's gotten bigger, to accommodate more information, I suppose." Gaius shrugged. "I can see depth as long as any two of them are open, so I'm trying to train myself to blink one eye at a time in sequence, for an edge in a fight. No success yet though."

"Interesting. So your change came with a whole new section of brain to accommodate it yet it still doesn't include the instincts to fully take advantage of it. Did you know much about brain biology before your change?" Abel is lending forward now.

"Mm, more than most, I suppose?" Gaius leaned his head back a little, trying to remember. "I've certainly learned more recently, but I've always gotten headaches. So I picked up a few words here and there from physicians. I'd say I know a lot more about muscles and bones than I do about brains, though."

Abel's face falls at the word headaches. "I am guessing that you didn't get a full brain scan before the changes so it's possible that this isn't actually new but just a bloodline perk activating. You might have had the extra 'occipital lobe' all along and advancement just let you grow the eye."

Abel points at his head "Do you still get headaches?"

"Now that I think about it, not since I advanced. Well. Not unprompted ones; still hurts plenty when I get hit in the head." Gaius smirked. "You might be onto something. There was this one time I was in a fight, and got a skull fracture, right here." Gaius pointed to where his new eye sat. "It was painful, but there was something else, a feeling I don't know how to describe. They say blind men still feel phantom sensations around their eyes, perhaps it was like that."
"Have you ever been blinded by an injury? Sometimes cultivation allows people to develop based on perceived need." Abel was enjoying this puzzle.

"Blinded? No, not that I recall. Although, my senses have been unusual for a long time." Gaius explained with a nostalgic look on his face. "Dao influence, in a sense. Alteration of my own perception."

Abel smirks "Well I am guessing you would have mentioned it if your new eye allowed you to see though earth."

"I'm afraid not." Gaius chuckled. "Would be great if it could, but so far I'm not sure what's different about it, other than, you know…" he sighed, falling silent again. "I'll quit stalling, if you'd like. I thought my life would be less complicated after I pulled this off, but it's all more insane than ever."

"I have never heard of a cultivator whose life became simpler with advancing cultivation. It's the price for being able to matter in this world"

"Five hundred years."

Gaius said those three words, then stopped, leaning forward and resting a forearm on the desk. "The thirteenth chamber held my mind captive for five hundred years, Abel. I nearly died of despair. I dreamt up countless things to keep myself alive, and some of those dreams never ended." Three eyes affixed Abel with a longing, vulnerable look.

"I'm afraid, friend. Afraid that I'll lose all logos entirely. Occasionally, I mistake a waking dream for the real thing, or the other way around. Sometimes I go days without sleeping, because I'm afraid I'll wake up back in that prison."

Abel frowns. Well that puts a new perspective on things. "I am not a therapist or a psychologist, but are there any distinct things that allow you to tell the difference between dreams and the real world?"

"Generally. The things my mind throws at me are never right, there's always at least one sense the dreams lack, usually more. And they don't show up in my new eye, probably because, like you said, my instincts haven't adapted to it." Gaius looked down and furrowed his brow. "Maybe that's why it appeared, to shepherd me through madness."

"Might I recommend that you ditch that idea of learning to blink your eyes one at a time? It seems like it would be better for your mental health to keep the two sets of vision distinct from each other."

"Mm, that's probably the way to go. Maybe I'll blink the bottom two, then the top one." Gaius scratched his head, trying to find the words to follow up. "But the point, Abel, is that now, more than ever, I desire your partnership."

Gaius pointed right at Abel, and looked at him with eyes of steel. "An advisor, a man with both feet planted firmly on the ground, to anchor me down to the earth. A King's thoughts are wild, deficient in logos, mine more than the others'. I need your partnership, and I am prepared to pay handsomely."

Abel hesitated; he currently had quite a sweet gig in the Bei Spirit mine. But it was clear Gauis did need help. Also pay handsomely. Abel deflected, "I might be able to point you towards some mental cultivation arts that should help. I heavily practice a math based cultivation art although I am helped by Cal" Abel holds up the calculating caterpillar. "Then again a spirit beast might also be helpful." Alway better to help people solve their own problems when possible.

"Scylla does help me, when she realizes it's happening. Still, no matter how well I control myself, I won't ever be the person I was before. I want people who aren't afraid to disagree with me, to tell me when they believe I'm wrong."

"Well I have always been unusually good at that. It would be nice to practice that skill professionally rather than as a hobby" Abel smiles trying to lighten the mood.

Gaius chuckled, fleshing a nervous smile. "You're a fun man to talk to, as usual. Anyway, with regards to my offer…" He then reached into his robe and retrieved a sizeable roll of parchment, some three feet long and wide, covered in various legal jargon, and handed it across the desk to Abel. "I had the bookies whip this up. A contract to my new legion, up for renewal once per year. Before ascension, you would lead the Engineer Corps, at least until an Array-Smith Centurion joined, after which you would be their second in command. After ascension, you would be my right hand in addition to leading the Engineer Corp. You would have the right to veto any order but mine, unless counter-vetoed by a two-thirds majority of Centurions. Call it a special in-between rank."

Abel's eyes fly over the contract with all the skill of a professional bureaucrat. "You seem very confident in my eventual ascension. The terms here are amazingly generous for qi condensation."

"You will." Gaius said, leaning in closer until his mouth hovered just over Abel's ear, and he switched to a clandestine whisper. He even hid his mouth behind his hand, as if worried of eavesdroppers. "This is beyond Top Secret, but… I can personally guarantee your success. Speak of this to no one." With that, he leaned back again, stepping his hands. "I have confidence in you." He smiled.

Abel spots something in the contract: "This legion doesn't actually exist currently."

"That's correct, it doesn't." Gaius nodded. "I wanted to snap you up now in case you ascended in the intervening time. It's a legal grey area, no rules specifically against doing it."

Abel considered how he lost control during the blood rain. He had thought his tattoo array would be sufficient, but it turned out not to be. The 12th heaven stage was supposed to help with resisting such influences. Abel made a split second decision and signed his name to the bottom of the document.

"Now that that is settled. I have loads more questions. You say that the vision of your third eye is district. Can you use it to look through a telescope well, keeping both other eyes open and process the visual stream at the same time?"

"Haven't tried it. I imagine I could, though both images would be a little weird. It's… not exactly like I see in two ways at once. More like one and a half fields of vision?" Gaius squinted, struggling to describe a sensation entirely alien to a human's. "A split tongue can move in two directions at once, but it's still one tongue. Press both halves to one thing and they taste the same thing. Imagine if you pressed them to two different things. You'd taste them both, but… muddled. Am I making sense?"

Abel cups a hand around one eye "Yes, but the reason I ask is that I have made all sorts of vision enhancing eye pieces over the years, but they always have the problem of distracting from normal vision too much to be practical. I Wonder if you might be able to make any use of them."

"I'll gladly festoon myself in whatever you'd like, now that you've signed on." Gaius smiled, patting Abel on the shoulder. "Well, technically my legion doesn't exist yet, but that comes into effect once it does. Right now you legally lead an Engineer Corps of one. Perhaps you can make use of that."

Abel rummages in his cracked desk and brings out a red piece of glass broken down the middle. "This eyepiece allows-" Abel notices the break. "-This eyepiece used to allow the user to see heat."

"Heat? That's quite something." Gaius picked up the lens, holding up to his eye experimentally. "…not sure what I was expecting; you said it was broken. Still, I can see some of the colors outside the human range, but I can't see heat. This would be fun to play around with."

"I expect we will both have lots of fun playing around. By the way, I hear that you are resistant to fire?"
 
@TehChron did I get it all right?
Turn 13 is Kleisthenes negotiating with Blacksmiths to pay us for killing their rebel and Turn 14 is Manuel actually doing so.

Only reason to try and do it this turn would be Yao tipping the balance further towards us and to deny the guy prep time, but that's not bad given Manuel's circumstances and a sufficient distraction in place.

Otherwise getting the Palace and Gravity up let's us do a lot, and are time sensitive enough to prioritize both
 
Seems to me the play is to simply Economy our foes, since everyone's going to be busy trying to claim clay in the chaos, we can build up, and do things to enhance our power so when OC is ready to roll at us we can answer him with solid enough defenses he won't be able to storm into us.
That, or we make a point of reaching out to our fellow Righteous Path allies, because dangit we seriously need to rally together or Old Cannibal will eat us all, with 5 Nacents aside from himself.
Economy probably won't work, we probably don't have enough potential Nascents to rock a formation that can hit at Great Circle Nascent. We need more land for us to be able to take on Old Cannibal. And while we're building up, he could rise even further. Say he takes out and eats the Drunkards. They're bordering the invasion and are explicitly called out as bad at warfare.

I'm no TehChron, and I've not been paying attention to what's going on. What I DO know is OC is building up to overwhelming force, and already is too powerful to attack directly, and he's going to be looking to suppress us if we move out. So, don't move out, turtle up and economy.
Beats walking out and getting stomped and losing valuable hard to replace Nascents right?
Nope. Turtling up is also a losing move. Old Cannibal can grow stronger way faster than we can build up.


Instead of Econ, which only brings in 1 Purchase, Raiding can bring in 0-3, and has a chance of drawing an enemy Nascent to the desert where we can gank them out of OC's reach.
 
Economy probably won't work, we probably don't have enough potential Nascents to rock a formation that can hit at Great Circle Nascent. We need more land for us to be able to take on Old Cannibal. And while we're building up, he could rise even further. Say he takes out and eats the Drunkards. They're bordering the invasion and are explicitly called out as bad at warfare.

Nope. Turtling up is also a losing move. Old Cannibal can grow stronger way faster than we can build up.


Instead of Econ, which only brings in 1 Purchase, Raiding can bring in 0-3, and has a chance of drawing an enemy Nascent to the desert where we can gank them out of OC's reach.
Raiding can also cause losses of troops, even crucial troops if we roll particularly poorly. Better to have a more stable stream of income. Furthermore, why would an enemy Nascent come to the desert? That would be an obvious trap.
 
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And Sun Dixiang is particularly excellent at herding cats.
That is indeed the case, but there's also been mention of enemies being characterized by aggression beyond reason. Just because he has the capacity, doesn't mean he will employ it effectively when maximum tinfoil paranoia strikes. We certainly can't force him to make mistakes, but we can make a lot of room for him to slip up. Then again, the RP is probably not coordinated enough to employ this level of planning, so I'll admit that the practical side of this approach is a bit lacking.

As for AL + OC vs Weiwei, Heaven is putting a finger on the scale now, and given the insight into her psyche, I have no doubt that she's premium Protagonist Cheat Power material.

I was also wondering whether we could play resource denial against the Cannibal Crew, but then I remembered our faction had morals.
we have a general three-turn plan in the works
Does USP mean Underworld Devil Fortress and Complete Control?

I like it, but I also suspect there are easier ways to go about the technique palace. We could try the diplo route, put down all the surrounding Blood Path rebels and then work some kind of technique exchange, or squeeze the SoHW for opportunities like the Nascent Owl.
 
That is indeed the case, but there's also been mention of enemies being characterized by aggression beyond reason. Just because he has the capacity, doesn't mean he will employ it effectively when maximum tinfoil paranoia strikes.
Historically, the only time that ever was not the case for Old Cannibal was when the SDSP actively bankrolled and incited the once in a generation genius to power up behind his back and...Old Cannibal was hesitating to execute a traitor.

Which is to say, Child Corpse Gulper

He is not going to be caught off guard by someone trying to pull the same trick a second time
 
Not really a big fan of the current train of thought being " OLD CANNIBAL IS HERE" as a underlying excuse since we have absolutely no information on Old Cannibal seeking to punch us the moment we step out of the Desert.

Especially when all the peeks at him via interlude has him constantly second-guessing if what we last did was a Manuel Plot. It's just as likely that he gets decision paralysis on if us going for the blacksmiths is another plot, likely all dependent on rolls to be honest.

In any case, considering the consensus seems to be the play it safe option, i'm just posting to share my opinion since it seems to me that the concept of OLD CANNIBAL being this All Seeing Monster that will instantly know and stomp any outside plans before we even conceive them is pretty much determining the direction of the plans.
 
Please dont play that game

Old Cannibals always been competent at Intrigue and an invasion isn't something you can keep quiet on a vital trade artery

Yes he's just as likely to second guess himself into not doing anything. But do we have to take that risk before we've even finished consolidating our gains with the entirety of the desert?

The Blacksmiths arent coming back from this loss any time soon. Most of their recruitment comes from a single city, after all.
 
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To be fair, while I don't agree with the paranoia, I can understand where it comes from. Old Cannibal's rise to power feels almost preordained at this point. He was a viciously dangerous warrior held back by a lack of resources, to the point that his own Sect was barely more than dead weight. After having his Sect destroyed but being personally unharmed, he was allowed to escape to the Devil Bee lands, unify the two legacies that were once one, and immediately blew everyone's expectations out of the water.

First he recruits two warring Nascent Souls and makes them both his subordinates. Then he eats like... what, half a dozen factions at this point? Along the way he is gifted the Altar Lord's newly-ordained heiress as his personal disciple, destroys the second most powerful Righteous Sect with no losses, ascends to Late Nascent, and just when it seems like his conquests are slowing down and the Plains are prepared to fight him, he receives what to him must look like a Deus Ex Machina in the form of the blood rain, weakening his enemies and giving him a fourth Nascent Minion. In just eighty years, the Devil bees have become as powerful as the Demonic Altar Sect, maybe even more powerful depending on how you measure it.

What I'm trying to say is, the dice have turned a dangerous, competent antagonist into a memetically unstoppable Gigachad, and people are understandably scared.

Still... we can't actually do much about him right now. We've got to consolidate our new gains and take advantage of the current instability to gain more resources. Hunkering down and stacking as many force multipliers as possible will pay off in a big way down the line, when the proper time for war comes.
 
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What I'm trying to say is, the dice have turned a dangerous, competent antagonist into a memetically unstoppable Gigachad, and people are understandably scared.
We all should've seen it coming to be honest

More fools were we to play things safe and not try to just kill Dixiang'er when we had all excuses and opportunity in the world...
 
With the Chuan and Yu Clans eaten, I'm guessing the two Devil Bee Nascents have risen to Mid Nascent each? Xinyue and Gengxin?

Damn, that's just monstrous. 1 Late, 4 Mid Nascents all under one Blood coalition.
 
If we swipe old fish from Old cannibal, with our ally we would have 4 vs his 4 with our ally.

Kinda surprised that demonic alter hasn't taken back their nascent soul from old cannibal since they are doing meh while he is steam rolling
 
If we swipe old fish from Old cannibal, with our ally we would have 4 vs his 4 with our ally.

Kinda surprised that demonic alter hasn't taken back their nascent soul from old cannibal since they are doing meh while he is steam rolling
Swiping is unlikely. A blood path Nascent on our "side" means that Fish starves if not fed a diet of literal blood from our side. That's not a hit we can take.
 
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