Hmmph... this junior is a good seed [Cultivation Management Quest]

[occipitallobe]

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[LordEdric]

Magnus Centenius​

Magnus Pt. 18 Breaking Under Pressure

Siege Year 1

Magnus had reached a level of calm only available to a person so angry, they had gone full circle to full calm again. He was so close to finally breaking through to the Foundation Establishment. His brother had chosen to go into the 11th Heaven Stage, but Magnus knew his talent was not as great as his brother and had to breakthrough now before his lifespan ran out. He had been training for almost 200 years going through great up and downs, from killing a Core Realm cultivator or losing years because of a puppet spirit. He was sure he was ready, and even had a Tribulation treasure he found decades ago ready for this very moment. So how had it gone so wrong?

Magnus had been assigned to Three Frog City. It was a small city, just far enough off the main trade roads to be unimportant, but close enough to need protection. He was allowed to be stationed here to breakthrough in relative peace and safety. Yet, that is not what happened.

Magnus looked at the swarm of Blood Cannibals outside the walls of the city. "Seriously, just now bad can my luck be?" Magnus asked the Heavens. "I know our clan is hated by the heavens, but how is my personal luck so much worse? I mean, why else would a Core Realm show up to kill us during the Hundred Years Trial, or losing my arms to kill them, or losing years of my life under the control of a stupid puppet soul. Now I have to deal with a Heaven's Damned Blood Cannibal Siege, while I'm still recovering. Damn! The! Heavens! I know this is your fault. Just you wait, I'm going to become greater than that fool of the chef who ruined this sea and then I'm going to rip the blasted Heavens to tiny, broken, dust!!"

Magnus continued to grumble and curse as his puppets dug new traps under the invading army. All the stores of explosives and fuel for this fire puppets had been moved to strategic locations to cause as much confusion as possible when the battle starts.

"I'm going to need weeks to make more fuel for my horse puppet to be a decent threat at range." Magnus continued to grumble as the near by guards ignored him.

Siege Year 3

"WAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!!!" Magnus screamed like madman. His puppet horse and last surviving puppet, was crushed under him.

"DIE! DIE! DIE! DIE! DIE!" Magnus lost himself to the bloodlust as his six arms literally ripped his enemies into pieces.

Siege Year 7

The Cannibals had been attacking the city in endlessly. There had been a few breaches here and there, but the defenders had been able to beat them back. The problem was the Cannibals didn't seem to have an end to their numbers. Magnus's Puppets were long gone, but they killed dozens and the poisons they fought with killed dozens more, but there were always more. More to take the place of the dead, more tear away another break in the walls, more to drag the defenders down with seer numbers. Magnus attacked again and again, but he couldn't make a dent in the numbers.

Siege Day 10

Magnus had moved off the frontlines after running out of stored poisons, bur rather them making more poisons to get back into the fight. He was asked to use his pill forging skills to make healing pills. The city was such expected to be a low priority for attack that many of its war supplies were delayed so the expected major battlefronts could get their supplies first. Fires burned nonstop in the Pill Halls of the city as anyone who could make anything useful had been call in to restore the city's war supplies.

Siege Last Day

"Zzzzzz" Magnus snored dead to the world. With the end of the siege, he could finally relax and he knocked out almost as soon as he did. He was so deep into sleep, he didn't hear the tribulation clouds thundering as they started to form above his head. Magnus dreamed about his first pillar for his Dao of Poison.

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I kind of got my muse back, can you guys mark it @BungieONI @Kaboomatic @TehChron

@occipitallobe what would help my guy breakthrough at this point? would another Tribulation Treasure be good, or should I just go with a Cultivation boost? I don't want another LST since he should still have 2

 

[occipitallobe]

@occipitallobe what would help my guy breakthrough at this point? would another Tribulation Treasure be good, or should I just go with a Cultivation boost? I don't want another LST since he should still have 2

Click to shrink...

He's due to break through at the end of this turn naturally.

I sort of wonder about how clan events effect good seeds. Like if the clan suddenly gains a huge win fall of cultivation resources do good seeds get a cultivation boost? Or Manual taking time to lecture. I know things like the trials make them more likely to die or be injured.

Click to shrink...

In short, no. In-game this is due to the important practice of not sheltering your seedlings too much, out-of-character it's just finicky and I discard finicky mechanics with a vengeance.

 

[occipitallobe]

To speak of the war as a foregone conclusion was common.

Manuel didn't feel that way. Old Cannibal had been popping up here and then, savaging forts, destroying towns. Nothing irreparable, just... enough that Manuel couldn't easily counter him. He responded by simply disappearing, hiding to force Old Cannibal to risk his wrath on any given attack.

It had worked well enough, and the war had ground into a sort of stalemate. Of course, for the Cannibals, a stalemate was a loss in the end. His forces hadn't begun to conquer anything of note, though the damage to the Xin Kingdom had been considerable.

A war he had expected to continue for decades was drawing to a close, merely eleven years in. The Cannibals couldn't afford to gather en masse to shatter cities or major fortifications, and so they raided, picking at caravans, levelling villages, burning towns. People died, but not in the numbers needed to sustain a massive boost to the enemy, and all across the front mortals gathered into cities. Massive snaking caravans found their way south, carrying endless supplies of Spirit Stones, the loans from the Strength Purity Sect

For the last eleven years, he had done two things. Cultivated, and studied the blood-red jewel he had seized from Old Cannibal.

He still couldn't fathom it. Oh, spending a hundred years to contemplate a truly powerful object wasn't unthinkable, but he couldn't even begin to understand what this was. It seemed to be a simple crystal for all intents and purposes, faceted a few times by a master jeweller. He had flaked the tiniest amount off with his dagger, gathering a sample for study.

The backlash had levelled the compound he was in. If he hadn't insisted to have all the other cultivators off-site, they would've been dead. If he'd done it in a city... Manuel shuddered. Whatever it was, it was more than powerful enough to kill him if he shattered it, or so he suspected. And it was so vulnerable, not hard like you would expect. A single forceful blow from a mortal would shatter the thing.

He'd done the obvious thing, and hid it in his aperture where that couldn't happen.

Was it simply a weapon? He had a feeling that was incorrect, but no way to study it further.

It was shortly after that event that a letter came to him by way of the Jingshen Clan.

"An invitation to stop this most horrific violence, and bring peace to the sands."

Written in finest calligraphy, stamped with Old Jingshen's personal seal, glittering cinnabar-coloured paste from a high-grade Spirit Stone marking the letter as opulently his.

He had been invited to the centre of the three powers, where the Strength Purity Sect would guarantee a neutral meeting ground.

Worrisome.

The Oasis...

Manuel hadn't been there before. Still, he doubted Old Cannibal had sufficient traps there, and if he could confirm Old Jingshen's location there, it was unlikely that he would stoop to a trap. Or at least, it was unlikely he would stoop to allying openly with Old Cannibal, and that was the more important thing.

He doubted he could refuse. Old Jingshen would take it poorly, and no doubt whatever trap he had set up - diplomatic, of course - would close its jaws around him one way or another. Personally, he suspected the man just wanted to prevent him from seizing all the Cannibal lands. He would be sensible to do so. Despite being the poorest third of the desert, the Cannibal Sect still held sufficient lands that taking them would double the power of the Optimatoi in the long run, and make them far more powerful in relation to not only the Jingshen, but his own vassals and lesser allies as well.

Once that happened, with a force of powerful Core Formation elders and a possible Early Nascent Soul, Manuel would never need to fight the Jingshen. Simply turn the screws on them, increasing tariffs and levies and taxes one by one until they became isolated and desperately weak. That sort of supremacy was almost sure to come if Old Jingshen let him seize the entirety of Cannibal lands, which is why it would never happen.

He scoffed.

If the Clan took half of the Cannibal lands, he'd be happy. Two-thirds, and he'd be ecstatic. Even a third each, with a neutral third would open up a great many possibilities.

He sent a reply. Personally, he enjoyed cloaking the letters themselves in darkness, occluded in secrets to all but the intended reader. It was a rather arrogant way of signing one's messages, but it served to authenticate them well enough. He would have to go. If he didn't, who knows what they might decide in his absence?

- - - - - - - -

Tisamenos woke up, a bucket of water dumped unceremoniously on his head.

He had been drunk, but to be fair he'd been on leave! Four days, and this was only the first! He'd come back from a village they'd gone to rescue, but... the Cannibals had gotten there first. He knew it was to shake their morale, but what they'd left there had made him vomit, and then made him want to get drunk. He wasn't a coward, but even bandits only raped and murdered. Even Blood Path bandits weren't that bad. He wasn't made for this. He wasn't a hero, or a great cultivator. Water dripped down around his ears, and his head rang with the three bottles of cactus brandy he'd had last night... that he remembered having last night.

"You the scribe?"

He looked blearily up.

"Tisamenos, scribe of the Miracle of Pleuron?"

He nodded, and shook his head, water pouring off it.

Dirty washwater. Delightful.

"Old man wants you for his little get-together. Needs a scribe, and you're the best one at hand. Get up, we're going."

With horror, he realised the man who had poured water on his head was a Foundation Building Expert. Tisamenos had reached the Ninth Heavenstage, but the gulf between them...

"The old man?"

A short, sharp bark of a laugh.

"Manuel Konstantinos. Who else?"

Tisamenos looked at the man uncomprehendingly.

Who in the name of the Imperator was Manuel-

Oh.

His eyes rolled back in his head and he collapsed back onto the ground. As drunken hallucinations went, this was one he would be glad to sleep off.

 

[Mochinator]

Great idea, but it may be a moot point. It looks like they may be about to get ripped to shreds.

Click to shrink...

That might not necessarily be a bad thing. They're a vassal kingdom right now, having them turned into a mob seeking vengeance = Servant Soldiers for the clan totally dependent on us.

Like from a " Gives us wealth in tribute " to a " gets paid by us to fight our foes with no backchat "

Also Muyi has a similar clause of "can eat people without going down the blood path" due to being a spirit beast now.

Click to shrink...

I'm a plant! A Venus flytrap! CHOMP

If the Clan took half of the Cannibal lands, he'd be happy. Two-thirds, and he'd be ecstatic. Even a third each, with a neutral third would open up a great many possibilities.

Click to shrink...

Something to consider, Trial is up in 2 turns so any increase of land = Land we gotta prep with defenses in the two turns

 

[Katana1515]

I wasn't expecting Tisamenos to turn up again! What a delight.

I hope he ends up repeatedly bearing witness to all manner of historically significant events and having to record them.

Also like the touch that most average Clan Members use Old Golds actual name so rarely they barely recognise it.

 

[LordEdric]

I do love how a stalemate means we win, also, I expect us to get a decent amount of territory this time

 

[Taut_Templar]

I do love how a stalemate means we win, also, I expect us to get a decent amount of territory this time

Click to shrink...

It's a matter of how much leverage we can bring to bear against the Jingshen Clan, I imagine. They know just as well as we do that land acquisitions by the 'Golden Devils' spell a critical threat to their economic victory - I don't expect them to allow it to happen sitting down.

 

[LordEdric]

It's a matter of how much leverage we can bring to bear against the Jingshen Clan, I imagine. They know just as well as we do that land acquisitions by the 'Golden Devils' spell a critical threat to their economic victory - I don't expect them to allow it to happen sitting down.

Click to shrink...

Still, we are winning the fight by holding them off at the border. Most of the villages are being abandoned for the walled cities, given another decade and we will start taking massive chunks out of the Blood Cannibal territory, and they started it. If Jingshen wants to force a peace, we will definitely need another bite of their territory.

 

[Simon_Jester]

That might not necessarily be a bad thing. They're a vassal kingdom right now, having them turned into a mob seeking vengeance = Servant Soldiers for the clan totally dependent on us.

Like from a " Gives us wealth in tribute " to a " gets paid by us to fight our foes with no backchat "

Click to shrink...

That's not so great, because it turns them from a source of resources into a cost we have to support. And since none of their water mages are all that powerful (as I understand it, none capable of matching even a Core Formation cultivator), so as mercenaries they're pretty 'meh.'

Something to consider, Trial is up in 2 turns so any increase of land = Land we gotta prep with defenses in the two turns

Click to shrink...

Ooof.

I do love how a stalemate means we win, also, I expect us to get a decent amount of territory this time

Click to shrink...

A stalemate would mean 'we win' if we ended the war with vastly more territory than Jingshen... or did you mean in the war with the Blood Cannibals themselves? Yeah, that's a 'stalemate leads to victory' thing, because the Blood Cannibals have literally eaten their nation's population for power and so their nation's ability to replenish itself is correspondingly reduced. They need a source of more blood, and they can't get it without conquering.

 

[nothingtoseehere]

Yea, as Manuel said even if we split the Cannibals down the middle with Jingshen we'd take it as a net gain (an even bigger one for Jingshen though since they haven't bled for it)

 

[fictionfan]

Yea, as Manuel said even if we split the Cannibals down the middle with Jingshen we'd take it as a net gain (an even bigger one for Jingshen though since they haven't bled for it)

Click to shrink...

I do hope that this doesn't turn into a won the war lost the peace.

 

[TehChron]

Not likely to happen, though we're moving into a different mode of combat

 

[fictionfan]

We are likely going to get a similar deal to take down Old Cannibal as when we teamed up with Old Cannibal to take down Child corpse gulper. Multiple Nascent souls carefully working together to kill one.

We were basically resigned to having him flee, but no one really wants a nascent soul blood path flying around lose.

 

[TehChron]

Nah, at most that's going to be an asking price to gouge us over something

Remember that this is backed by the Strength Purity Sect, and their diplo elder isnt inclined to fuck us, especially when we've given indication thatd we'd contribute more to the Great Battlefield if we werent dealing with the Blood Cannibals right now.

Which is true.

So what we have here are Old Jingshen pushing his own advantages to force concessions from us that we'd have to abide by, meaning that theres going to be some manner of baiting us, of which the most obvious is assistance in ganking Old Cannibal.

And because its obvious it should be a non-starter. So let's see where things go from there.

 

[nothingtoseehere]

We want to gank Old Cannibal though? It would take alot more effort than Corpse Gultcher, but it removes him as a potential enemy in the future and his corpse is hugely valuable. The question is how much we get out of this vs Jingshen. If jingshen wants a third of the Cannibals to kill Old Cannibal with us, that's a great deal.

 

[fictionfan]

It would take alot more effort than Corpse Gultcher,

Click to shrink...

It would take more effort, but the Jin are likely to provide more help to justify the spoils.

 

[TehChron]

We want to gank Old Cannibal though? It would take alot more effort than Corpse Gultcher, but it removes him as a potential enemy in the future and his corpse is hugely valuable. The question is how much we get out of this vs Jingshen. If jingshen wants a third of the Cannibals to kill Old Cannibal with us, that's a great deal.

Click to shrink...

The issue is that that's not how you should approach a negotiation with a skilled and wily merchant who's hobby since before the quest began is playing petty and low key intrigue warfare against Manuel

You should treat the obvious good deal like a trap precisely because it is one, and like any good salesman he'll identify what you want and try to gouge the crap out of you for it

Thus the winning move is to not play his game. Window shop, as it were. It's good you reference Corpse Gulper

Because in this situation? We're in Old Cannibals position. Not going into this negotiation by choice, but because we're genuinely needing to in order to at least guarantee that the Jingshen wont stab us in the back in the aftermath.

We were and still are over a Barrel. I said this was the most dangerous phase for a reason.

 

[fictionfan]

The issue is that that's not how you should approach a negotiation with a skilled and wily merchant who's hobby since before the quest began is playing petty and low key intrigue warfare against Manuel

You should treat the obvious good deal like a trap precisely because it is one, and like any good salesman he'll identify what you want and try to gouge the crap out of you for it

Thus the winning move is to not play his game. Window shop, as it were. It's good you reference Corpse Gulper

Because in this situation? We're in Old Cannibals position. Not going into this negotiation by choice, but because we're genuinely needing to in order to at least guarantee that the Jingshen wont stab us in the back in the aftermath.

We were and still are over a Barrel. I said this was the most dangerous phase for a reason.

Click to shrink...

Well at least the land we are offering isn't ours yet. Much better than Old Cannibal that had to offer up his own. Also Old Cannibal's body isn't as big a deal for this negotiation with neither of us being blood path. The Golden devil's likely can manage to get more use out of it then the Jin could, but neither of us feels like letting the other have it puts us at risk.

 

[TehChron]

...What precisely is so attractive about throwing in the towel before we've even seen what options are on the table?

Jingshens interests here arent offing Old Cannibal, but attempting to achieve Desert Hegemony

Whatever they take will be put towards that end in order for them to accept it. It's just not going to be that convenient

 

[BadAtScreenNames]

...Given that they're choosing neutral ground between all three territories, is there a chance that Jingshen might be trying to broker peace with the Cannibals as well?

From a purely practical perspective, they (Jingshen) benefit more if there's a buffer state for us to focus on. The cannibals are our primary enemy besides the Trials, after all - they take up a lot of our focus as a result. Jingshen ends up looking like a minor threat by comparison, so they get the benefits of being our neighbours (maintenance of the scorpion road, stable kingdoms to trade with, et cetera) with fewer drawbacks (competition over resources leading to increased political tensions and eventually war). By contrast, if the Cannibals are destroyed, we gain a bunch of territory and there's no-one to distract us from our only other real competition in the desert.

That shift in the status quo doesn't seem to work for Jingshen - at least not in a way I can see. They get territory from the Cannibals too, but at the cost of eventual war with a much more dangerous enemy; us.

Now, yeah, blood path cultivators are fucking crazy, and it doesn't look good to the other righteous sects if the Jingshi protect them, but surely that's just a question of spinning it right? After all, we're a demonic sect in the eyes of the rest of the region. A fairly *polite* demonic sect who keeps their word, but still, no-one's that keen on us bar the flow dragon gang. Keeping us from being the only major power in the desert might be something the others see as desirable.

Thoughts? Obvious angles I've missed?

 

[TehChron]

You're not wrong, no

The issue is that bringing the Cannibals introduces a lot of new wrinkles to the interactions as theyd he reduced to begging for handouts

That's not a price I see anyone wanting to pay unless it takes the form of that Oasis proposal of mine that got shut down and even then, none of us would want to pay for it

 

[fictionfan]

...Given that they're choosing neutral ground between all three territories, is there a chance that Jingshen might be trying to broker peace with the Cannibals as well?

From a purely practical perspective, they (Jingshen) benefit more if there's a buffer state for us to focus on. The cannibals are our primary enemy besides the Trials, after all - they take up a lot of our focus as a result. Jingshen ends up looking like a minor threat by comparison, so they get the benefits of being our neighbours (maintenance of the scorpion road, stable kingdoms to trade with, et cetera) with fewer drawbacks (competition over resources leading to increased political tensions and eventually war). By contrast, if the Cannibals are destroyed, we gain a bunch of territory and there's no-one to distract us from our only other real competition in the desert.

That shift in the status quo doesn't seem to work for Jingshen - at least not in a way I can see. They get territory from the Cannibals too, but at the cost of eventual war with a much more dangerous enemy; us.

Now, yeah, blood path cultivators are fucking crazy, and it doesn't look good to the other righteous sects if the Jingshi protect them, but surely that's just a question of spinning it right? After all, we're a demonic sect in the eyes of the rest of the region. A fairly *polite* demonic sect who keeps their word, but still, no-one's that keen on us bar the flow dragon gang. Keeping us from being the only major power in the desert might be something the others see as desirable.

Thoughts? Obvious angles I've missed?

Click to shrink...

where the Strength Purity Sect would guarantee a neutral meeting ground

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I would think it a possibility if they were not deliberately involving the Strength Purity Sect. Helping a blood path sect is a shameful underhanded deal that might sometimes be necessary, is also something you want as few people to know about as possible to save face.

 

[Rakuhn]

The Cannibals existing is a significant boon for the Jingshen. But the Jingshen aren't the only ones that matter here. What also matters is the the rest of the powers' reactions.

We can broadly divide the sects into three groups: righteous powers, demonic blood path powers, and demonic non-blood path powers. Every single one of these groups, including other blood path powers, will generally prefer a demonic blood path sect to be replaced by a demonic non-blood path sect. The relative power between righteous and demonic powers remains the same, but there is less chance of either a monster capable of dominating the region arising, or of many blood path disciples causing havoc in everyones' territories.

Frankly put, even if we managed to claim the entire Cannibal lands it wouldn't be of concern for our neighboring (non-Jingshen) Righteous sects. We are a very defensive oriented clan, and our cultivation method will make it very difficult to conduct operations into the mountains, especially with the informal Righteous power defensive alliance. The biggest change that they'd likely see is an increase in the quantity and a decrease in the price of spirit stones, as well as a general increase in trade goods, as Cannibal lands are converted from de facto human hunting grounds and farms to actual productive territory.

Ironically enough, an ascendant Jingshen clan may be more threatening to the Righteous powers than us. Firstly, wthout the threat of a crusade being called against them if their prices rise too high, they could easily charge the Righteous powers far more for the stones that we do. Secondly, Righteous powers do not benefit from their informal defensive alliance when they are in conflict with other righteous powers, so the Jingshen would make poor neighbors for the weaker local powers. Thirdly, an ascendant Jingshen might be powerful enough to create a second bloc of power within the righteous powers (see 2) leading to an internal power struggle. And finally, an ascendant Jingshen firmly tilt the balance of power in favor of the Righteous sects, which would force some of the currently non-involved Demonic sect to join the opposite side of the ongoing crusade.

Ultimately, I think that the Strength purity sect is going to try to weaken the Cannibals as much as possible, and will try to prevent us and the Jingshen from attaining enough power to subsume each other.

 

[fictionfan]

Ultimately, I think that the Strength purity sect is going to try to weaken the Cannibals as much as possible, and will try to prevent us and the Jingshen from attaining enough power to subsume each other.

Click to shrink...

With the hundred year trial constantly hanging over our head the Righteous powers don't really have to worry about us or put a special effort keep us down. Even if we got the whole territory they wouldn't have to worry about it. I could definitely see them worrying about the Jin though.

Once that happened, with a force of powerful Core Formation elders and a possible Early Nascent Soul, Manuel would never need to fight the Jingshen. Simply turn the screws on them, increasing tariffs and levies and taxes one by one until they became isolated and desperately weak. That sort of supremacy was almost sure to come if Old Jingshen let him seize the entirety of Cannibal lands, which is why it would never happen.

Click to shrink...

Reading this again keeping the hundred year trials in mind and that everyone knows that we go though them. I don't see how anyone would consider it so inevitable. If anything even when we are in a position of strength we are required to be more generous then would normally be the case because our next period of weakness is always less than a century away.

 

[uri]

Now while I know this won't be to popular, if this meeting is about negotiating dividing the loot and land of the cannibals between us and Jingshen what if we give them the strange crystal for the land and most of the loot.

I know that the crystal is really valuable (if I had to gauss its either the legacy of a great circle nascent soul elder or a spirit severing one) and we will probably lose out in term of gross value but we need to consider the fact that it will take at least one or two of Manuel actions to even know what the crystal dos and even then you might have to be using the blood path to even use the crystal.

In the worst case we gain land and loot while old Jingshen studies the crystal for a few decades and gains a really powerful treasure, or he gains a treasure that he cannot use or in the beast case we somehow shatter (or make them shatter) the crystal while old Jingshen and\ or lady Jingshen are around and kill them (if Manuel think it can kill him it can kill them).

My personal favorite is to manipulate lady Jingshen (who after her recent ordeal will probably be looking into ways to acquire power) into believing that if she takes the crystal as a pill and shatter it in her mouth (and as such kill herself) it will tremendously help in her cultivation and that Manuel was a desperate old man to have let such a powerful treasure out of his hand.