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Hmmph... this junior is a good seed [Cultivation Management Quest]

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    • Good Seed and Omake Spreadsheet Rules:

    Firstly, if you have questions about Good Seeds and the like please read here. If that doesn't answer your question please ping me in thread, or on Discord.

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    • [X] Offering Him The Farm

    I'm not sure if I want to kill off the blood canibles right now given that if we do wipe them out the balance of power in the desert will be broken when we are the weaker of the two remaining factions. Getting all of there territory in exchange for losing the trade road tariffs would be a bad trade.
     
    *Jiiiiii*

    [X] War to the Knife

    He's right but his information is also outdated. We have--in fact--prepared for this strategy, this whole "You must be strong everywhere while I only need to be strong in one or two places"

    Here's the point, we know this too and have expended tremendous amounts of time and treasure to mitigate this.

    He does not, in fact, need to be 'Just strong in one or two places' unless he can somehow hide his armies from the Golden Eye Array that we've extended a node. And the very fact that he's threatening that suggests that his penetration has failed, either because of Manuel's not-yet-resolved action or not. So what happens instead is...

    He creates a few powerful thrusts... Which plays to our current position because we're better suited to winning a handful of stand-up fights than we are a general raiding campaign. If he can't cockblock the Golden Eye Array (And with Manuel's counterintelligence action this turn, that's not an option unless he somehow manages to personally attack them without provoking Manuel--operating in the same area--into a straight fight). He loses, because we identify his main thrusts and meet him with our full strength--and the Golden Devils do Mass Combat better than anyone else on the map. Combined with the Mobile Legion to counter his raiders and his attack bounces.

    And Occipital told us once I think. "Nascentbowl on Golden Devil Lands is what Manuel wants" Because that lets us employ the Nascent Will and a Core Formation Hoplite as support elements--and thanks to Destasia, we have enough for a Core Hoplite again, if a marginal one.

    We're hurting yeah, but we're not dead yet, and the Blood Cannibals have been caught in a death spiral for some time now.

    Now, one possibility of note is that he's negotiated with Jingshen for passage around our fortified borders, but there's no way he gets to hide that scale of movement long enough to beat the Scorpion Road's redeployment capability, and it's far more likely that he decides to just... Stay there instead, because why not? Jingshen is going to have a hard time occupying the Scorpion Road while we're busy here without pissing off Strength Purity Sect (Who have a presence there at the moment).

    More importantly, even if we lose the Scorpion Road... As much as it'd hurt? If we can trade that for most of the Blood Cannibal Territory? That's a survivable loss. The place has been Blood Path for so long it's likely poorly exploited mineral reserves. It'd be hard for Jingshen to justify themselves to SPS for deploying their own Nascent Soul on a pre-emptive attack when they've kept begging off having to deploy them north after all.

    All we've seen here is that literally nothing about our calculus has changed. He's hurting, he's bleeding, and he's doing his very best to hide his actual status from us for that very reason I think. He wants to suggest to us--I feel--that he still has enough to break through, when his position might be worse off than even he's claiming.
     
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    I'm concerned more about the Devil bees if we begin war on the cannibals.
    We don't know when they'll reorganize nor if they'll attack us placing us in a multi-front war, one which we can't easily repulse if our attention is elsewhere.
     
    RebelYell said:
    I'm concerned more about the Devil bees if we begin war on the cannibals.
    We don't know when they'll reorganize nor if they'll attack us placing us in a multi-front war, one which we can't easily repulse if our attention is elsewhere.
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    Cannibals are preparing for death or glory--for better or worse they'll be spent after next turn.

    Devil Bee Civil War has escalated, because they have a dumbass rookie of a Nascent Soul fighting what is clearly another incompetent considering the elder hasn't beaten the jumped up Foundation Establishment yet. That's not sorting itself out anytime soon.
     
    Juugo said:
    I am curious, what does it mean?
    ~~~~~~~~
    Either way this is the way I vote.

    [X] War to the Knife
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    Japanese Onomatopoeia for staring at something

    But yeah, the core of my argument is.

    "Nothing has changed, if anything, I feel he's even weaker than he's claiming to be, and he himself might be starving."

    And

    "I don't feel the Blood Cannibals will ever be this weak again, and their only real choice is to attack us on our strongest ground."
     
    ... You know, I wonder if the "super shady and cloak and dagger stuff" is actually him trying to hint to us. "Please examine me so you realize the deal/threat/whatever the Jingshen made to me, so we can turn it around on them."

    It's a shame he's not going after the Jingshen Clan, instead of the Golden Devil Clan. But on the other hand -- why the heck would he? The Golden Devils are weakened. Too, the Blood Cannibal Sect are an official Enemy (drawbacks!) of the Golden Devils. The Jingshen Clan are not so weakened. So... So he's more likely to try this strong-arming or risk a war to the hilt on the Golden Devils, rather than the Jingshen Clan.

    Still, I wish I knew what part Jingshen were playing in this. If any. Heck, knowing if they weren't up to anything would also be valuable. As we'd then know to discount them from this.
     
    The big problem with war to the knife is that no matter who wins between us and the cannibals it will be costly, old cannibal is a cornered animal and if he thinks he can't survive he will try to take us down with him (and he can do a lot of damage especially if the Jingshen clan will support him).

    But let's say we did manage to kill him, what's then?

    Without him there will be a rush to claim what is basically free real estate between us and Jingshen and let's say we manage to get most of the land, then what ?

    We will be weakened form our latest disaster in the trials and from the damage old cannibal did, the Jingshen clan (that is pretty much at full strength) would come in and roll us with their two nascent souls to our one.
    ​
    But if we ally with old cannibal to fight the Jingshen clan we can get better lands and knock down an enemy that has been gathering strength for the last countries while still maintaining a three way deadlock but with us in a batter position.
     
    uri said:
    The big problem with war to the knife is that no matter who wins between us and the cannibals it will be costly, old cannibal is a cornered animal and if he thinks he can't survive he will try to take us down with him (and he can do a lot of damage especially if the Jingshen clan will support him).

    But let's say we did manage to kill him, what's then?

    Without him there will be a rush to claim what is basically free real estate between us and Jingshen and let's say we manage to get most of the land, then what ?

    We will be weakened form our latest disaster in the trials and from the damage old cannibal did, the Jingshen clan (that is pretty much at full strength) would come in and roll us with their two nascent souls to our one.
    ​
    But if we ally with old cannibal to fight the Jingshen clan we can get better lands and knock down an enemy that has been gathering strength for the last countries while still maintaining a three way deadlock but with us in a batter position.
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    The problem with attacking Jingshen is that it'll torpedo our current warming relations with SPS, which is the last thing we want to do as our entente is half of what's keeping us afloat at the moment.

    We are, in fact, institutionally speaking? Excellent at winning a land grab match, because we have so many vassals who also would like more lands that our action economy can just overwhelm them. Jingshen is terrible at winning a landgrab.

    And I feel that Old Cannibal is even weaker than he's claiming to be. He had no problem showing himself before, and yet all of this is a big grand show of force--and we did well enough on our spy missions this turn that we know he felt it critically important to waste a precious Nascent Soul Action to blind us before approaching us.
     
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    RebelYell said:
    I'm concerned more about the Devil bees if we begin war on the cannibals.
    We don't know when they'll reorganize nor if they'll attack us placing us in a multi-front war, one which we can't easily repulse if our attention is elsewhere.
    Click to expand...
    Click to shrink...
    Yeah, one way or the other if the Cannibals attack next turn that fights going to be over quickly.

    I just dont want to pay the price of offing Old Cannibal right now. I feel like burning our Nascent Will charges on him is more expensive than I'd prefer, when we can go for a more controllable engagement and extermination down the line.

    And we can turn our efforts on bullying the Early Nascent Souls in charge of the Devil Bees instead, since they'd both be tearing into one another while we continue to recover and have the benefit of the Night Devil Fortress and other defensive emplacements to secure our backline when making such a move.
     
    TehChron said:
    Yeah, one way or the other if the Cannibals attack next turn that fights going to be over quickly.

    I just dont want to pay the price of offing Old Cannibal right now. I feel like burning our Nascent Will charges on him is more expensive than I'd prefer, when we can go for a more controllable engagement and extermination down the line.

    And we can turn our efforts on bullying the Early Nascent Souls in charge of the Devil Bees instead, since they'd both be tearing into one another while we continue to recover and have the benefit of the Night Devil Fortress and other defensive emplacements to secure our backline when making such a move.
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    And yeah, my own perspective is that "I'd rather eliminate the threat at our back so we can turn our attention outward, and take advantage of the land claims in the aftermath to better prosecute a campaign against the Devil Bees"

    It's just that I don't want to allow even the possibility of the Blood Cannibals getting their sustainability back up through taking advantage of this, you know? Fighting Old Cannibal'll be a lot more expensive if he's fully fed, instead of on tight rations to avoid crippling his own (Apparently mediocre) recovery after a This Last Trial level disaster.
     
    [X] War to the Knife

    Thinking on it I'd just prefer to tighten the screws.
     
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    Alectai said:
    instead of on tight rations to avoid crippling his own (Apparently mediocre) recovery after a This Last Trial level disaster.
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    the problem with your reasoning is that you assume from what we see of old cannibal that he's hurting more than we thought and is starving but you need to remember that old cannibal is no slouch and he could defiantly be trying a double play to get us to underestimate him.

    Alectai said:
    The problem with attacking Jingshen is that it'll torpedo our current warming relations with SPS, which is the last thing we want to do as our entente is half of what's keeping us afloat at the moment.
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    firstly Where did you get this number?

    seceandly so what? so long as the scorpion road stays open they couldn't care less, besides with the war going on they can't exactly do anything and when the war finishes we can't actually relay on te righteous path goods will.
     
    Alectai said:
    And yeah, my own perspective is that "I'd rather eliminate the threat at our back so we can turn our attention outward, and take advantage of the land claims in the aftermath to better prosecute a campaign against the Devil Bees"

    It's just that I don't want to allow even the possibility of the Blood Cannibals getting their sustainability back up through taking advantage of this, you know? Fighting Old Cannibal'll be a lot more expensive if he's fully fed, instead of on tight rations to avoid crippling his own (Apparently mediocre) recovery after a This Last Trial level disaster.
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    I don't disagree, it's why I'm largely fine with that option winning.

    I suppose the strategic efficiency freak of me wants to play silly buggers over the long term for maximum potential gain.

    That being said, the Jingshen aren't likely to intervene. The crumple zones they made of those border territories last century still aren't recovered yet, meaning prosecuting a war over the worst parts of the habitable desert just to try a land grab when they'd have to front the bill entirely just to grab any territories not already salted to death sounds is what they'd have to do to even see any profitability from such a course of action.

    And that sentence sounded absurd to even write, let alone contemplate the prosecution of.

    Meaning if we kill Old Cannibal on Clan Lands we're gonna be looking at a damn fine infusion of wealth, possibly enough to offset the cost of enduring those death throes in the first place.
     
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