I'm not interested in timeline . I just commented because of a hypothetical Blues: Liberal Democratic being mentioned and considering we've have Reds! all about communism dominance and recently written Greys! all about fascism dominance I decided to create my own list of colors!:A noun Timeline
Blues!: Liberal Democracy World
Purples!: Monarchist World
Whites!: Theocracy World
Greens!: Ecologist/Environmental World
Cyan!: Christian Democracy World
Pinks!: Social Democracy or Socialism World
Yellows!: Libertarian World
Blacks!: Anarchist World (TML World basically)*
Silvers!: Technocracy World
* Don't have any clues on weather I could use black, red or combination of both. So decided just used combine names of two colors.
Anyway if anyone wanted to share their own ideas of this system or add more let me know .
Edit: So I been informed that Black is considered primary color of Anarchism so I change it to Black instead .
Probably use the color Black for the Anarchists, considering the Makhnovshchina and the Siberian Black Army has black as it's predominant color and the fact that Red is associated with Socialism / Communism.
Mediterranean country like Italy and Greece are cooked because uar control both gate of Mediterranean so if they want to they can choke the trade of those country because they are dependent on sea trade.
Not all reactions in the region to the UAR were hostile however as the Arab nation would receive an influx of so called "Ostugees" from throughout the former communist bloc: Eastern Europeans and Central Asians who yearned for the days of the Warsaw pact and state socialism in the wake of their nations unstable or outright catastrophic transition to capitalism and moved
Latin American and Asian reactions were more mixed to the implications of the Long March world….
By this time, indonesia has just ended the "new order" period of our history, dominated by suharto's 32 year presidency. By the way, make sure to look up what developmentalism is.
Not all reactions in the region to the UAR were hostile however as the Arab nation would receive an influx of so called "Ostugees" from throughout the former communist bloc: Eastern Europeans and Central Asians who yearned for the days of the Warsaw pact and state socialism in the wake of their nations unstable or outright catastrophic transition to capitalism and moved to the UAR in droves in hopes of recapturing some of what they lost.
Funny you should mention Eastern Europe. The big mainstream rise in the alt-right in Germany started with people who felt Ostalgie. Nationalism long being synonymous with Communism since the Russian Civil War, the trip from wanting to have that deep sense of a collective identity and purpose was easily transmitted into remixed English language and older historical anti-Islamic rhetoric.
If any of the old East Germans are willing to sing the Internationale with people who aren't German, as the diplomats to Berlin started working on when they met for the treaty there may be a key inroad to both new immigrants and a local political base.
The problem is, Germany's Neo-Nazi movements are intimately familiar to the Russian Federation and have always been a pet project of Putin. AfD is probably still going to happen, but much like a certain other Come To Jesus moment in 2016, the movement is going to have… pun not intended, alternatives depending on the individuals' beliefs.
AfD is probably still going to happen, but much like a certain other Come To Jesus moment in 2016, the movement is going to have… pun not intended, alternatives depending on the individuals' beliefs.
I'm thinking that the people within German "Far" Left frustrated with more mainstream parties like Die Linke (provided it still gets founded and subsequently withers down to opportunism and milquetoast reformism as in OTL) will have an actually viable alternative in a revitalized Comintern-affiliated socialist movement, as opposed to the dime-a-dozen splinters or "socially-conservative leftists" like Sahra Wagenknecht.
Regarding those in the former DDR prone to reactionary politics while still feeling "Ostalgic", a superpower which is not only able to play hardball against Uncle Sam and is socially radical to boot is unprecedented (even the USSR and subsequently modern Russia is respected by some of those types for its homophobia and social conservatism relative to the "Degenerate" 21st-Century West). Because of that and the Comintern's outreach, we could see a split in what will become the AfD's base into the "regular" populist right (so, AfD), converts to the Pro-Comintern Internationalist Left (in the most optimistic case), Right-fringists who aren't pragmatic enough to count themselves with the AfD's endorsement of the new "US-EU-RF Globohomo Alliance" and, of course, NazBols.
You are definitely likely to see the Comintern making gains with progressive intelligentsia voters, having embraced New Left intersectionality or retained Old Old Left academic communism depending on how you look at it. That grouping became largely stuck as a dissatisfied fringe of left-bourgeois parties OTL, but TLM's Comintern resolves most of the aspects dividing them from far-left alignment.
If you thought the Culture Wars were brutal OTL...
By this time, indonesia has just ended the "new order" period of our history, dominated by suharto's 32 year presidency. By the way, make sure to look up what developmentalism is.
I'd think the partnership between Russia and the USA would still be a pretty fraught balancing act as while the US may now see Russia as a bulwark against communism in Central Asia and the Caucasus, it also still has to deal with Russia attempting to secure an independent sphere of influence from NATO. I'm not sure if this partnership would dissuade Russia from going to war with Georgia.
This is also awkward for Moldova, which, as I understand, had a friendly relationship with Russia in 2002, but had a government led by the Communist Party of Moldova. I wonder if this may cause European communist parties to split into pro-UAR factions and ones that try to rebrand as National Communist groups.
I'd think the partnership between Russia and the USA would still be a pretty fraught balancing act as while the US may now see Russia as a bulwark against communism in Central Asia and the Caucasus, it also still has to deal with Russia attempting to secure an independent sphere of influence from NATO. I'm not sure if this partnership would dissuade Russia from going to war with Georgia.
This is also awkward for Moldova, which, as I understand, had a friendly relationship with Russia in 2002, but had a government led by the Communist Party of Moldova. I wonder if this may cause European communist parties to split into pro-UAR factions and ones that try to rebrand as National Communist groups.
Keep in mind that putin belives in a trotskist conspiracy that rumsfelt/pentagon/stonemason is responseble for ALL the revolution that happend after 1950.
Asia is the world's largest continent and it is only natural that it would have an appropriately wide-ranged variety of opinions on the new occupant of its southwest regions.
Aside from the communist and nominally communist states of the Far East and Southeast, the Asian states were all some variety of antisocialist from archaic monarchies to military dictatorships or liberal or illiberal capitalist democracies.
However, this didn't mean that they all shunned the UAR, quite the contrary many saw immense benefit in at least cordial relationships with the new superpower on the bloc feeling that the Arabs could serve as a useful counterbalance to the Americans or at least the threat of a pivot to Cairo could be used by many countries to bargain for concessions and benefits from Washington.
The most prominent nation to pursue such a strategy was India, which saw partnership with the UAR and the vast resources and support it could gain from it as its ticket to finally escaping from its eternal "developing" state and finally taking its place as a world superpower, though the current Indian government found its missives to the UAR receive curt replies for now.
Attempts by Bhutan, Cambodia, Papua New Guinea, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, and East Timor would receive warmer welcomes though Bhutan's ventures would be received with bafflement by the Comintern, who couldn't conceive of a monarchical nation that wasn't immediately hostile to them.
In Bangladesh's case, its attempts at forging closer ties were helped by their choice of diplomats, namely the inclusion of the Setting Sun timeline's version of chairman Selim, who found himself very confused at suddenly becoming a global celebrity due to his counterpart's prominence in the Long March World (and he would have a chance at meeting his alter ego eventually).
But not all reactions were friendly; Pakistan would adopt an extremely hostile attitude towards the UAR, the Islamic nation seeing the United Republic as a perversion and mockery of everything it stood for, not helped by India's attempts at forging ties with the UAR. Islamabad would seek closer ties with the US as a result even as Bin Laden found refuge there as he suffered from a mental breakdown.
Taiwan, Myanmar, Thailand, Nepal, and the Philippines all expressed similar negative attitudes towards Cairo not helped by the fact that the latter two were facing an upsurge in Maoist rebel activity, with the insurgencies becoming far better organized and well-armed almost overnight (with a similar situation in India's Naxalite red corridor) and it wasn't hard to see who was behind this.
Indonesia would attempt to find a middle position of remaining friendly to both Cairo and Washington even as it sought help from the latter as communist activity experienced a minor surge in the wake of the end of the New Order period, and the barely emerging Indonesian civil society found itself under fire once more and the wider society of the world's former largest Muslim nation was shaken by the Wamda's theological implications.
Indeed, unnoticed by most of the world, the Wahhabist/Conservative Madrasa network carefully cultivated by the Saudis for decades would suffer an implosion in the aftermath of the UAR's appearance as their endlessly wealthy ideological patrons simply vanished without a trace, the first salvo in the coming war for the heart and soul of the Muslim world as Arab revolutionary theologians smelled blood in the water.
The Republic of Korea's response was not as hostile as one might expect, largely because Seoul was utterly baffled by the UAR's almost brotherly attitude towards it, the Arabs' distaste for capitalism being overcome by seeing a thriving Korea in any shape after the tragedies suffered by the peninsula back home.
Indeed Asia's response to the Wamda was unique in how it was only partially focused on the UAR itself, with knowledge about Japan's actions in a timeline where it had triumphed in the Second World War causing the island nation no shortage of headaches.
Chinese, Indonesians, Burmese, Koreans, and many more peoples were united in sheer horror and outrage as more and more information was revealed about the Co-Prosperity Sphere and its actions, few finding it in themselves to dismiss events like the Rapes of Beijing and Sri-Lanka, the Butchering of Burma, the Papuan genocide, the desolation of Borneo, Bangkok's years of tears, the Korean Leap Backwards, and a dozen more crimes against humanity with equally sickening names.
Tokyo naturally was quick to point out that these actions were committed by a wholly different Japan but its detractors were quick to point out that the other Japan was surprisingly similar to the one that existed now, down to many of Japan's current politicians and business elites having equally prominent positions in the other world, with Ryuzo Sejima being the most infamous; the unassuming businessman suddenly discovering that in another world he was known as the Manchurian Ogre, the Butcher of Burma and many more unflattering titles.
This would throw a wrench in the US's plans for a grand anti-communist Asian coalition as many nations were reminded of the many reasons why they didn't like or trust Japan; though the Japanese themselves would find themselves greatly interested in information about their country's doppelgänger, especially nationalists eager for a glimpse of what might have been and what could yet be.
The Pacific nations of Oceania were largely indifferent to the UAR, for now, climate change and their degrading ecologies were their biggest concerns though certain events would force them to seek help from Cairo and Alexandria in the near future, and many islands would find themselves hosting very peculiar visitors who claimed to come a very different Oceania.
In Latin America, the reaction to the UAR was similarly varied. Brazil was the third nation in the western hemisphere to recognize the UAR (and fifth overall), its current progressive government seeing a kindred if extreme spirit in the new Arab colossus. Cairo was receptive even if it was annoyed by the docility and reformism of these so-called leftists.
Venezuela's overtures were much more eager and better received, the nation ruled by Hugo Chavez being inducted into the Comintern as an observer member with due haste after plans for a US invasion of Venezuela were leaked. The former region of Gran-Colombia would be showered with industrial and technical aid as the Comintern sought to build another red bastion to support Cuba.
Nicruaga's ruling leftist coalition would likewise seek the Arab superpower's protection though internal matters would force it to temper its overtures. Bolivia became divided over the matter as the MAS now faced accusations of being mere puppets of Cairo.
The rest of Latin America reacted with varying degrees of hostility, benign intent and indifference towards the UAR, mostly hostility as many of these nations remained bastions of anticommunism built on the skulls of millions of people whose only crime was daring to threaten the god of profit.
Argentina and Chile proved to be the most hostile of all Latin governments to the existence of the UAR, in the former's case driven in large part by the fact that the Wamda both put an end to the Chilean miracle and was exposing millions to the existence of what a Chile without Pinochet and shock therapy looked like. It was by all accounts better than its sad Rosevelt's Triumph counterpart.
Or at least enough Chileans believed it was to go out and protest in large numbers across Santiago and other cities, with their Argentine counterparts going even further as the country's depression became worse in every conceivable way, as workers began outright taking over factories and large areas of the country were outside the government's control for extended periods, the specter of communism returned to haunt the Southern Cone, currently kept at bay only by brutal crackdowns and reprisals bolstered by a barrage of propaganda that wouldn't look out of place in the height of the Red Scare.
But no matter how hostile the Chilean and Argentine governments reacted to the return of history it was downright civil compared to the attitudes of the citizens of now gone Israel…
Oh boy, is Comintern allowing Venezuela to be part of them without asking any changes to the economic policies that focused more on growth that the was backed by high oil prices...one that would collapse by next decade or so?
Oh boy, is Comintern allowing Venezuela to be part of them without asking any changes to the economic policies that focused more on growth that the was backed by high oil prices...one that would collapse by next decade or so?
I mean, massive amounts of aid will probably fix that no matter what. And given how interventionist the Comintern has been in the past, I suspect that it will force change, it's just acting on the principle that unless someone is officially in their bloc, they might get invaded.
It'd be great for the UAR to help Venezuela kick its economy's oil dependence, but is the collapse in oil prices even going to happen? It's spiking wildly right now, since the UAR replaced so much of OTL's oil producers, and I don't see why the UAR would open up to capitalist states' markets - is the remaining capacity enough to ever bring oil prices that low?
It'd be great for the UAR to help Venezuela kick its economy's oil dependence, but is the collapse in oil prices even going to happen? It's spiking wildly right now, since the UAR replaced so much of OTL's oil producers, and I don't see why the UAR would open up to capitalist states' markets - is the remaining capacity enough to ever bring oil prices that low?
There's a bunch of (as of 2002) undiscovered oil sites outside of Saudi Arabia, and fracking will be improved to get even more oil in just a few years. The price will probably stabilize and then steadily drop.
The most prominent nation to pursue such a strategy was India, which saw partnership with the UAR and the vast resources and support it could gain from it as its ticket to finally escaping from its eternal "developing" state and finally taking its place as a world superpower, though the current Hindutva government found its missives to the UAR receive curt replies for now.
Cairo's strategy regarding the "World's Largest Democracy" is going to be interesting to see play out. They aren't going to support Delhi's legitimacy, particularly in its counterinsurgency against its communist rebels (now that they've made their ideological distaste towards the reigning Hindu nationalists clear) but there is still benefit to further pry the billion-strong economy away from the West through diplomatic ventures while also "secretly" advising and supplying its Left, when its archenemy Pakistan has now pivoted further towards the US. And then there's the can of worms that is the Kashmir Conflict, which also involves China.
Indonesia, the next most populous Asian country, is also another interesting case. The reactionary regime which oversaw the bloodbath that destroyed the largest non-ruling communist party in the world (and numerous other affiliated progressive organizations) was technically overthrown in 1998 but its mark will still be present in Indonesian society for generations. There are fortunately still plenty of avenues for the Comintern and UAR to give the "dead" left-wing currents a revival and we might even see the official bans on Communism lifted by the newly-democratized government. The conflict between the "red" madrassas and their reactionary counterparts here (both ideological and maybe even physical) will be something.
The Republic of Korea's response was not as hostile as one might expect, largely because Seoul was utterly baffled by the UAR's almost brotherly attitude towards it, the Arabs' distaste for capitalism being overcome by seeing a thriving Korea in any shape after the tragedies suffered by the peninsula back home.
Or at least enough Chileans believed it was to go out and protest in large numbers across Santiago and other cities, with their Argentine counterparts going even further as the country's depression became worse in every conceivable way, as workers began outright taking over factories and large areas of the country were outside the government's control for extended periods, the specter of communism returned to haunt the Southern Cone, currently kept at bay only by brutal crackdowns and reprisals bolstered by a barrage of propaganda that wouldn't look out of place in the height of the Red Scare.
Attempts by Bhutan, Cambodia, Papua New Guinea, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, and East Timor would receive warmer welcomes though Bhutan's ventures would be received with bafflement by the Comintern, who couldn't conceive of a monarchical nation that wasn't immediately hostile to them.
Most monarchies by now have seen the long term results of the conflict between the liberal and conservative rulers in the late Victorian period. The keys to the kingdom will always have a few in the hands of popular supporters.
helped by India's attempts at forging ties with the UAR. Islamabad would seek closer ties with the US as a result even as Bin Laden found refuge there as he suffered from a mental breakdown.
Taiwan, Myanmar, Thailand, Nepal, and the Philippines all expressed similar negative attitudes towards Cairo not helped by the fact that the latter two were facing an upsurge in Maoist rebel activity, with the insurgencies becoming far better organized and well-armed almost overnight (with a similar situation in India's Naxalite red corridor) and it wasn't hard to see who was behind this.
… this is going to be one of those things that overuse lead to problems.
This isn't the degenerated fascist haven of HoI4. This is reality circa the early oughts. Sneaking large amounts of supplies into places is just not possible. Air and sea traffic is significantly more monitored due to international institutions and regulations with over fifty years of experience. The UAR's larger support activities are almost always going to be seen. And when they're spotted in transit, the international order is going to react.
Not a problem now, but armies and insurgencies don't pop out of nowhere, and there is no logistics magic anymore.
Indeed Asia's response to the Wamda was unique in how it was only partially focused on the UAR itself, with knowledge about Japan's actions in a timeline where it had triumphed in the Second World War causing the island nation no shortage of headaches.
Chinese, Indonesians, Burmese, Koreans, and many more peoples were united in sheer horror and outrage as more and more information was revealed about the Co-Prosperity Sphere and its actions, few finding it in themselves to dismiss events like the Rapes of Beijing and Sri-Lanka, the Butchering of Burma, the Papuan genocide, the desolation of Borneo, Bangkok's years of tears, the Korean Leap Backwards, and a dozen more crimes against humanity with equally sickening names.
Tokyo naturally was quick to point out that these actions were committed by a wholly different Japan but its detractors were quick to point out that the other Japan was surprisingly similar to the one that existed now, down to many of Japan's current politicians and business elites having equally prominent positions in the other world, with Ryuzo Sejima being the most infamous; the unassuming businessman suddenly discovering that in another world he was known as the Manchurian Ogre, the Butcher of Burma and many more unflattering titles.
This would throw a wrench in the US's plans for a grand anti-communist Asian coalition as many nations were reminded of the many reasons why they didn't like or trust Japan; though the Japanese themselves would find themselves greatly interested in information about their country's doppelgänger, especially nationalists eager for a glimpse of what might have been and what could yet be.
Eh. Impact is overestimated. Outside a few key anniversary statements and designated people/memorials who are permitted to make nationalist statements by their isolation from the government, the official Japanese policy on the acts during the war is oblivion.
They do not teach WW2 to their population in remotely the same manner as other countries. Ever since 1959-60 and the Anpo movement, the collective social agreement has been to memory-hole the Pacific War. Not to make people forget for a rebranding campaign, but that the events were so horrible it should be practically Thanos-Snapped. The fate for the leadership who sent an entire generation to die overseas in the name of glory and honor is a light-handed damnatio memoriae.
Speaking of the Anpo protests, many of the O-G anime and manga creators who were students at the time were often involved in communist groups. It's why you have such a divide in stuff from the 80s and 90s vs. the 21st century. These old men were the ones who believed in having a message of hope yet warning in their work. They hated how their original ideas were turned to mass market consumer capitalism.
And the Japanese Communist Party has pretty much been puttering along doing its own thing since the 80s made it the last of the major left-wing groups in Japan.
Wonder what the UAR makes of it staunch pacifism, given the occupation's policies.
The Pacific nations of Oceania were largely indifferent to the UAR, for now, climate change and their degrading ecologies were their biggest concerns though certain events would force them to seek help from Cairo and Alexandria in the near future, and many islands would find themselves hosting very peculiar visitors who claimed to come a very different Oceania.
But no matter how hostile the Chilean and Argentine governments reacted to the return of history it was downright civil compared to the attitudes of the citizens of now gone Israel…
Here's… not quite a hot take because there's careful thought put into it, but it's not a pleasant state to talk about: The hard-right movements in the Israeli and Palestinian political movements want the world of The New Order. If the other side is nothing but genocidal extremists, they can crush all moderate or peace-seeking opposition… and seek out other extremists abroad who share their absolute hatred for their opponent.
While most of those organizations are now gone with the ISOT, the idea of Israel has always been a bedrock to the broader community. Even if they think the government is undemocratic and oppressive, even if they feel the US or wherever is their home and identity, there's a place out there they can be safe and secure if the world turns hostile to their existence. That's now gone. Even with a thriving Jewish community among Palestine, even if the divisions from the British mandate days are greatly reduced, it's not Israel. It's not a state that advertises itself as putting Jewish people above all else.
So even if the Comintern out significant effort into opening the country back up to let Jewish people come to worship at their holy sites, even if they sink great efforts into ensuring that the world will still Never Forget, it's not going to be the same.
I'm not saying a lot of people ITTL are going to get super-racist and Islamophobic. The lobbyists are going to lobby, they're the intermediaries of the wealthy. But the general public? They're going to be scared. And there's a reason George Lucas put the line of Fear, Anger, Hate, and Suffering in that order.
The most prominent nation to pursue such a strategy was India, which saw partnership with the UAR and the vast resources and support it could gain from it as its ticket to finally escaping from its eternal "developing" state and finally taking its place as a world superpower, though the current Hindutva government found its missives to the UAR receive curt replies for now.
*Is* the BJP Regime circa-2002 Hindutva though? And I say that as a left-wing Indian myself. That part felt more like it was India circa-2024 reaching out to the UAR than 2002's India. The BJP has always had this undercurrent of (Hindu) nationalism, yes, but it didn't go mask off until the eternal Modi Regime. And even then, at least early on, Modi kept organizations like the RSS at an arm's length for the purposes of deniability at least. Now, come 2024, even that thin veneer has slid off completely but from what I remember of what the mode in the nation felt like back in 2002 (and I fully admit I was still a child then, I grew up in the middle of the Manmohan Sign regime 2004+), it was more generic Center-Right (Neo)liberalism with Indian characteristics.
EDIT: Not to say that 2002's India was somehow a land freeing itself of its biases and Islamophobia (and other 'phobias) were left in the undercurrent, the infamous Gujarat Riots which led to thousands of deaths and an outpouring of anti-Muslim sentiment happened in *2002* itself, but India didn't claim to be a nation by and for Hindu Nationalists yet. Remember that Manmohan Singh and the ostensibly Center-Left INC came into power for two terms in 2004.
While most of those organizations are now gone with the ISOT, the idea of Israel has always been a bedrock to the broader community. Even if they think the government is undemocratic and oppressive, even if they feel the US or wherever is their home and identity, there's a place out there they can be safe and secure if the world turns hostile to their existence. That's now gone. Even with a thriving Jewish community among Palestine, even if the divisions from the British mandate days are greatly reduced, it's not Israel. It's not a state that advertises itself as putting Jewish people above all else.
So even if the Comintern out significant effort into opening the country back up to let Jewish people come to worship at their holy sites, even if they sink great efforts into ensuring that the world will still Never Forget, it's not going to be the same.
I'm not saying a lot of people ITTL are going to get super-racist and Islamophobic. The lobbyists are going to lobby, they're the intermediaries of the wealthy. But the general public? They're going to be scared. And there's a reason George Lucas put the line of Fear, Anger, Hate, and Suffering in that order.
About 40% of the global Jewish population *as OTL knew it* has just vanished, and even if there's a sizeable alternate timeline Jewish community living across the UAR, that blow is still going to be felt by the diaspora at large. Combined with the fact that many non-Israeli Jews – like people elsewhere – will have lost family members and loved ones who had been living in Israel, some may even feel the appearance of the UAR was a kind of second Holocaust.
Indonesia, the next most populous Asian country, is also another interesting case. The reactionary regime which oversaw the bloodbath that destroyed the largest non-ruling communist party in the world (and numerous other affiliated progressive organizations) was technically overthrown in 1998 but its mark will still be present in Indonesian society for generations. There are fortunately still plenty of avenues for the Comintern and UAR to give the "dead" left-wing currents a revival and we might even see the official bans on Communism lifted by the newly-democratized government. The conflict between the "red" madrassas and their reactionary counterparts here (both ideological and maybe even physical) will be something.
