Remove ads

Hereafter [Worm x Fate/Grand Order]

Reader mode
Candlelight said:
So does 'Solomon' benefit from Chaldea collecting the grails or something? Even if you're confident that they won't ever be able to beat you and that you can kill someone at your leisure why not save the effort of tracking them down later or whatever when you can just... kill them all now when you're already there?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
From my understanding, in canon, that meeting, specifically when the MC looks him in the eye, is when the MC gets cursed to go through the Prison Tower Event. Which happened to Ritsuka earlier in this fic instead.
 
In addition, the "plot hole" where Goetia leaves them alive really isn't one. You have to remember the whole Solomon persona where he wants to kill humans is a mask. He really doesn't like killing humans. So its a mix of him being so arrogant that he can not see Chaldea as being relevant or a threat to him and killing them being a thing he legitimately does not want to do. He will kill them if it advances his plan but due to his arrogance he cant see them actually interfering with it so he has no real reason to kill them.
 
Dmol8 said:
Good job @James D. Fawkes you captured the feeling of overwhelming power causing despair in Taylor and how she flashes back to Behemoth and Scion from it. But here is my question: Why isn't she remembering the Leviathan fight as well?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Others have weighed in, but I'll throw my hat in.

The Leviathan fight for Skitter wasn't her fighting against him directly. She was doing mostly search and rescue and recon, iirc, as nothing she could do with her powers would amount to anything. There is but one moment where she goes after Leviathan, armed with what is now Last Resort (not the same knife I believe). At that time, no one knew the Endbringers were sandbagging, and so her desperate attack might have been something that might actually work.

For the Behemoth fight, she was trying to organize things and stop the fight from getting even worse. There was nearly an entire nation's capes plus a ton of the New Protectorate there to stop the devastation, and even something that had a near possibility of deleting any other end bringer just made things worse. Behemoth was completely untouchable and had stopped sandbagging. It stood in the crater of New Delhi, and they threw every big plan and contingency they had - and even when, combined with everything else, they had a shot at killing him - Behemoth just no-sold the power responsible for threatening its core.

The Leviathan fight was looking at something that might have once been human, a personified force of nature that might die if you hurt it enough.

The Behemoth fight was knowing you were facing an unfeeling engine of destruction, and nothing and no one, not even with everyone working together, years (decades/centuries due to time manipulation) of preparation, power synergies, high morale and trust, could do anything to it. Just flat-out proven that it would take an act of God, not humanity, to beat it - which is what ended up happening.

Afterwards, things went back to cops and robbers, like the original Leviathan fight. The fights against Khonsu, Tohu, and Bohu weren't about killing Endbringers, they were about limiting or mitigating damage. "Do enough damage, make them go away, hope Scion shows up for a repeat." It wasn't until Zion started Gold Morning that the same kind of feeling came back, and it took someone/something ascending to something like a God to even have a chance.
 
Silvan Stormrage said:
In addition, the "plot hole" where Goetia leaves them alive really isn't one. You have to remember the whole Solomon persona where he wants to kill humans is a mask. He really doesn't like killing humans. So its a mix of him being so arrogant that he can not see Chaldea as being relevant or a threat to him and killing them being a thing he legitimately does not want to do. He will kill them if it advances his plan but due to his arrogance he cant see them actually interfering with it so he has no real reason to kill them.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
There's also that his nature as a Beast is Pity. He finds the human condition and the entirety of the human race so fundamentally pitiful that he's willing to tear the fabric of space and time to ribbons in order to change that. He doesn't hate or want to destroy Humanity, he wants to fix it, because he loves humanity.

It's just that he's operating under the mindset of "utopia and genuine time travel justify any means". It doesn't matter if his plan requires killing way over 8 billion people across all history to use as fuel because when he's done, not only will they not be dead anymore technically but they'll be perfect!

The issue is that his mindset is fundamentally inhuman to the extent he cannot truly understand humanity, to the point that what would come out the other side if he succeeded could not be called human.
 
James D. Fawkes said:
The legends said son, but although Mordred would probably get pissed at being called her daughter, she didn't have any trouble with female pronouns, so…
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I mean, Prince Mordred, just like King Arthur. Well, not one hundred percent match, since King Arthur is basically Artoria's drag persona she's been using to cosplay as the Savior of Britain because people at the time insisted that this adds authenticity to the character, while Mordred's issues are only kind of adjacent. Still, close enough.

Mordred's problem isn't really gender, it's succession. It's just, for Artoria, it didn't matter what lies she has to tell as long as she saved the kingdom, while Mordred has to be Arthur's son.

Anyway, with Nasuverse stuff out of the way, can I just say again that Le Morte d'Arthur being elevated to the status of "legend" will never not be infuriating to me? Nephew! Gtfo with your incest fetish, Malory! I get it, you hated English kings, that's not an excuse to write a hatefic about the guy who's not even remotely related to them.

Ugh, sorry again, yes, got it out of the system, again.


James D. Fawkes said:
"You really fucking pissed her off with that!" Mordred called as she gave chase. "She loved that horse like it was family!"
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

"More than family, really!"

Can't quite blame Artoria for that though, lol.


James D. Fawkes said:
"Oh?" he said. "How interesting. It seems even someone like you is capable of change, after all. Sentiment, guilt, and misplaced affection — you have become even more pathetic in these last two years, Taylor Hebert."
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Beasts really do be giving each other so much flak.
 
Candlelight said:
So does 'Solomon' benefit from Chaldea collecting the grails or something? Even if you're confident that they won't ever be able to beat you and that you can kill someone at your leisure why not save the effort of tracking them down later or whatever when you can just... kill them all now when you're already there? It doesn't matter that you're thankful one of them accidentally did you a favor, if you're all "Haha, I am so much better than you that I'll let you go this time but you are totally dying in the next singularity anyway, I know that for a fact! Also I'll save you the effort of looking for it, it's in your homeland."
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

He feels no need to stop them because he wins simply from them taking too long and well honestly from what I understand of canon the America singularity had them go across the states on foot on top of all the other giant hurdles so they basically need a stupidly long string of miracles just to reach his base. However, even if they do it doesn't really matter because of how strong he is, the pillars and his trump cards he's sitting all meaning he basically can't lose and his victory is assured.
Being fair Chaldea's efforts can't stop him due to the temple making him and the pillars immortal and it takes a plan setup and hidden from his knowledge and sight by literal Christian God to arrange a drive by to shoot him in the nuts by removing it and unravel his plan. Even then he still could have won and launched his plan but the odds of it working got dropped to 99 % and considering his nature and that erasing human history was the cost of trying he wasn't willing to roll those dice in case he got snake eyes and erased it for nothing.

CrescentSickle said:
Others have weighed in, but I'll throw my hat in.

The Leviathan fight for Skitter wasn't her fighting against him directly. She was doing mostly search and rescue and recon, iirc, as nothing she could do with her powers would amount to anything. There is but one moment where she goes after Leviathan, armed with what is now Last Resort (not the same knife I believe). At that time, no one knew the Endbringers were sandbagging, and so her desperate attack might have been something that might actually work.

For the Behemoth fight, she was trying to organize things and stop the fight from getting even worse. There was nearly an entire nation's capes plus a ton of the New Protectorate there to stop the devastation, and even something that had a near possibility of deleting any other end bringer just made things worse. Behemoth was completely untouchable and had stopped sandbagging. It stood in the crater of New Delhi, and they threw every big plan and contingency they had - and even when, combined with everything else, they had a shot at killing him - Behemoth just no-sold the power responsible for threatening its core.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

The levi fight isn't last resort that she uses that was a lie said to Shakespeare she instead used Armsy's halberd after he was defeated. I would also add that the Behemoth fight had a record turnout and still ended with them on their last legs with something like a dozen capes and 1 building in New Delhi still standing and even that building was pretty damaged. Plus well while Scion did wreck Behemoth it also showed Behemoth was still sandbagging on them as it stopped acting injured and used new atks including trying to self destruct which is which the bit of fanon that occasionally crops up that they all do that naturally came from as people misunderstood that as being a general endbringer thing instead of a specific use of it's energy control and cause Eidolon was right there with a power slotted that could stop it.
 
Candlelight said:
So does 'Solomon' benefit from Chaldea collecting the grails or something? Even if you're confident that they won't ever be able to beat you and that you can kill someone at your leisure why not save the effort of tracking them down later or whatever when you can just... kill them all now when you're already there? It doesn't matter that you're thankful one of them accidentally did you a favor, if you're all "Haha, I am so much better than you that I'll let you go this time but you are totally dying in the next singularity anyway, I know that for a fact! Also I'll save you the effort of looking for it, it's in your homeland."
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Along with what everyone else is saying, he is supremely confident due to the existence of Babylonia, which he outright says that he'll start to take us seriously if we clear that.

After all, if we can beat one Beast, there is a chance of us beating another.
 
James D. Fawkes said:
Ritsuka breathed a sigh of relief. "Thank goodness. That's the second time we've had to kill her."

"That so?" Mordred hefted her sword up and let it drop weightily against her shoulder to a metallic clink. "Ha! Guess that makes us even, don't it? I mean, I probably had to kill Father in a Grail War or something at some point, but far as I know, this is the second time for me, too!"

"Do we get a free knighthood if we have to do it a third time?" Rika asked.

Mordred turned back to us and grinned. "Far as I'm concerned, you lot've already got one!"
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Also, I kinda want to imagine what kind of complicated face Emiya is making in the background while listening to that.

Also, foreshadowing.
 
This does remind me of that time during the Echidna fight when Taylor went out of her way to explain the Coil situation to Miss Militia purely because she hates sitcom-style tragic miscommunication.
Scourge 19.2 said:
I'd always hated those parts in the TV shows and movies, where everything could be resolved with the simple truth. It was why I'd never been able to watch romantic comedies. It grated: the sitcom-esque comedic situations which would be resolved if people would only sit down, explain, and listen to one another, the tragedies which could have been prevented with a few simple words.

I didn't want to be one of those tragedies.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I wonder if she's going to echo that here, because her enemies certainly seem intent on drip-feeding it to the team if she doesn't.
 
James D. Fawkes said:
when you die in the next Singularity, you shall die comforted, for you will have finally returned home! Make your peace with your demons there and accept your end!"
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
….Ya know I was wondering if we might ever see anymore Worm characters in this story and I feel like that all but confirms it

That or because of how Edison decide to go full blown pragmatism and basically enslave all American citizens to fuel his war effort that'll remind Taylor of how she literally high jacked and used the heroes of multiple worlds as pawns
 
"You do know that what you call 'cheese' isn't actually cheese, right?" Queen Medb asked.

It would have been fearsome had it not been for the yellow-orange Kraft single that was covering her face.
 
Michael7050 said:
Kama and Kiara... Primate Murder and Vitch...

You get the absolute snarkiest back and forths between Beasts vying for the same number and I always love it.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I think some of the shade Solomon is throwing here is because Taylor was just about a Beast Candidate herself. WoG is that Taylor came really damn close during the Scion battle, and was only backed down at the very last second. It's why her and Fou don't get along. Taylor was so close that she carries around the vestiges of the Beast she could have become, which lets her sense Fou's true nature. Fou in turn as a Beast can easily identify Taylor. I imagine that Taylor's nature as a Beast is at odds with Fou's which causes tension.

The only reason I believe she isn't an outright Beast Candidate is because that isn't just a title, it's a physical, spiritual, and mental transformation. Once you become a Beast Candidate, you are never not a Beast Candidate, and there is no real failure state. Just not advancing to becoming a full Beast. And once you do become a Beast Candidate, you almost immediately begin to manifest your Anti-Humanity nature along with several physical transformations.

If she is an outright Candidate, then the only reason I can think of that we don't see it in story is if all her Beast aspects have been stored in the spot reserved for her in the Throne. But that is just Head-Speculation.

That all said and bringing it back around, ya. Solomon's shade is because Taylor had the potential to be a Beast, and the fact she isn't living up to that to 'help' Humanity is why he is throwing it.
 
Noxturne90 said:
I think some of the shade Solomon is throwing here is because Taylor was just about a Beast Candidate herself. WoG is that Taylor came really damn close during the Scion battle, and was only backed down at the very last second. It's why her and Fou don't get along. Taylor was so close that she carries around the vestiges of the Beast she could have become, which lets her sense Fou's true nature. Fou in turn as a Beast can easily identify Taylor. I imagine that Taylor's nature as a Beast is at odds with Fou's which causes tension.

The only reason I believe she isn't an outright Beast Candidate is because that isn't just a title, it's a physical, spiritual, and mental transformation. Once you become a Beast Candidate, you are never not a Beast Candidate, and there is no real failure state. Just not advancing to becoming a full Beast. And once you do become a Beast Candidate, you almost immediately begin to manifest your Anti-Humanity nature along with several physical transformations.

If she is an outright Candidate, then the only reason I can think of that we don't see it in story is if all her Beast aspects have been stored in the spot reserved for her in the Throne. But that is just Head-Speculation.

That all said and bringing it back around, ya. Solomon's shade is because Taylor had the potential to be a Beast, and the fact she isn't living up to that to 'help' Humanity is why he is throwing it.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I mean, he's also helping humanity from his point of view, so I think this is somewhat innacurate.

Honestly, the way I felt about his interaction with Taylor is… condescending patronage. Basically, "you're human, so I don't really expect much from you, but it's kinda neat that you saved me some time and effort by killing Zion yourself, great job".

Her status as a Beast Candidate is very much a point against her.

First, because Beasts hate each other from the get go. Can you imagine the abysmal job security you have as a Beast? Not only there's only one humanity to destroy, so really only one Beast gets to do it, there're also multiple candidates for each spot! Talk about cutthroat job market. And each of these wankers has their own ideas about how and why to go about ending humanity. Obviously, the only correct way is mine, Beast's ( insert number here ) ( insert additional timeline classification here )!

Second, because Goetia until Ritsuka fistfought him to the death is really, really arrogant. Everyone already said that, but it bears repeating. Him sharing anything at all with a filthy human, let alone his status as a Beast, is inconsolable. I wonder if it would count as classism. I mean, Beasts are a really diverse bunch, huh? There's a primordial goddess of creation, there's a therapist turned cult leader, there's a book, there's Nero starring as Literally Satan, there's maybe Olga Marie, Amaterasu for some really fucking weird reason, there's South American Batman, and now the scariest mofer of them all, Taylor Hebert with a gun!
 
Noxturne90 said:
I think some of the shade Solomon is throwing here is because Taylor was just about a Beast Candidate herself. WoG is that Taylor came really damn close during the Scion battle, and was only backed down at the very last second. It's why her and Fou don't get along. Taylor was so close that she carries around the vestiges of the Beast she could have become, which lets her sense Fou's true nature. Fou in turn as a Beast can easily identify Taylor. I imagine that Taylor's nature as a Beast is at odds with Fou's which causes tension.

The only reason I believe she isn't an outright Beast Candidate is because that isn't just a title, it's a physical, spiritual, and mental transformation. Once you become a Beast Candidate, you are never not a Beast Candidate, and there is no real failure state. Just not advancing to becoming a full Beast. And once you do become a Beast Candidate, you almost immediately begin to manifest your Anti-Humanity nature along with several physical transformations.

If she is an outright Candidate, then the only reason I can think of that we don't see it in story is if all her Beast aspects have been stored in the spot reserved for her in the Throne. But that is just Head-Speculation.

That all said and bringing it back around, ya. Solomon's shade is because Taylor had the potential to be a Beast, and the fact she isn't living up to that to 'help' Humanity is why he is throwing it.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

My recollection and understanding was that when QA who thought she was Taylor got Contessa'd QA could have advented and fallen into being a beat but her thinking she was Taylor meant she went the other route and Contessa + Chaldea means Taylor's back in control so she can't advent without becoming QAylor again at least.

Raiseth said:
I mean, Beasts are a really diverse bunch, huh? There's a primordial goddess of creation, there's a therapist turned cult leader, there's a book, there's Nero starring as Literally Satan, there's maybe Olga Marie, Amaterasu for some really fucking weird reason, there's South American Batman, and now the scariest mofer of them all, Taylor Hebert with a gun!
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

There's also angra manyu as a candidate who if he ever actually got out of the grail properly in a fsn route would become one, Kama/Mara, Daji, Space Eresh and Fou. Kyoudoessuck also isn't Amaterasu but her adopted daughter or something like that.
 
Gnep said:
TFW The horse is loved more than Mordred is.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
To be fair, Mordred was a bastard child of a non-consensual liason, however competent a beat-stick she was. It's not like Artie has some sort of obligation to her beyond the oaths between suzerain and vassal. Horses, however, are vitally important to any form of cavalry and a strong bond is required for them to function together.

Hence why the horse is more loved.
 
Lots to unpack here. The favor Solomon owe Taylor is both saving the Human Multiverse including the branch Solomon was going to use for his plan AND not immediately going Beast Mode thus making his plan obsolete as there wouldn't be a humanity to sacrifice after.

Story time with Taylor soon! With surprise multimedia support from Shakespeare!

Also Taylor will render the army advantage of both side of the American Singularity moot. She has ALL THE BUGS!!! That and it's a Warzone. There's more than enough insects from all the corpses.
 
famfrit said:
Daji, Space Eresh and Fou. Kyoudoessuck also isn't Amaterasu but her adopted daughter or something like that.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

It's heavily implied from context clues that Amaterasu used to moonlight as Daji, and Inari is basically her fursuit from that wild time.

Don't ask me how any of that makes sense, I'm just a messenger.
 
famfrit said:
The levi fight isn't last resort that she uses that was a lie said to Shakespeare she instead used Armsy's halberd after he was defeated.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I kinda wonder if it would be the same conceptual weapon under Nasu rules. Its the same basic function, Nanothorn blade, used in the same basic circumstance(Taylor cornered as the last one standing with the sole weapon in her grasp), with the same basic MO.

The physical blade is just the vector for it.
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top