Hereafter [Worm x Fate/Grand Order]

And this right here? Is a falsehood. While terms like Therianthrope and Lycanthrope are old and belong to multiple different and differing concepts of shape-shifters the modern day concept of a Werewolf as this large semi-bipedal black wolf-like monstrosity can be directly traced back to the Beasts of Gévaudan from the 1760s.

In the context of Fate this would be an Assassin Class Servant similar to the Hassan of the Hundred Faces with multiple bodies that each would have to be killed to put it down. So while there is no single prototypical werewolf, there is in fact a prototype for the modern werewolf and it could have made it to the Throne of Heroes.
There's definitely a werewolf Servant out there. If nothing else, with how Fgo shows the Throne to work something with not quite enough significance by themselves would have made it in as a representative of the legend of the werewolf in general.
 
It did remain unknown because by the time the Beasts were all put down their remains were in such a bad state that the best educated guess of the people who got to examine the remains before they were lost, most likely buried somewhere under/on where once stood the hotel of La Rochefoucauld, was that they were a pack of feral/rabid wolfdogs.

Fun fact, long ago in the city of Buenos Aires Argentina there were parcs of wild dogs that legend says could eat a person alive and this was like.... just a bit more that 200 years ago.

Domesticated dogs when abandoned don't quite know how to survive in the wild, nowadays they will just eat trash, but go back to near medieval conditions and they get quite dangerous instead.

So the most likely answer is that they were abandoned dogs that were mistreated by humans and lacking food... they got like that.

Gotta also remember the time period, they only need to have injured or killed a single person for the tale to balloon out of proportion.
 
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So, I guess the thing I'm confused about is why Flamel needed to hide the stone? Is it the kind of thing where if Flamel is manifested, the stone is manifested? Sort of like how if Sigfried exists, so too will Fafnir?
 
Fun fact, long ago in the city of Buenos Aires Argentina there were parcs of wild dogs that legend says could eat a person alive and this was like.... just a bit more that 200 years ago.

Domesticated dogs when abandoned don't quite know how to survive in the wild, nowadays they will just eat trash, but go back to near medieval conditions and they get quite dangerous instead.

So the most likely answer is that they were abandoned dogs that were mistreated by humans and lacking food... they got like that.

Gotta also remember the time period, they only need to have injured or killed a single person for the tale to balloon out of proportion.

OK a few facts:

1) Any wolf that has black hair on most of its body has a dog somewhere in its ancestry. The most likely dog breed that was crossed with a wolf to produce it is either the Bas-Rouge or the Beauceron.

2) The Beasts of Gévaudan were notable not simply for being another feral pack of animals, but also for its kill count. The lowest number of deaths caused by it is 60 people in multiple attacks.

3) It started the attacks by going after 14 year old girls and the reason it stuck in people's memories is because the people it killed could not buried with sacraments.

4) Its size was bigger than any regular animal that would attack humans so people were confused about what it even was. Before being put down permanently in the summer of 1767 it was theorized to have been a young lion, a hyena, a large dog, a large wolf or a wolfdog. Or a pack of any of those animals.

That is well beyond just a pack of feral dogs or hungry wolves hunting people.
 
Neat. Just learned that Mother Goose can trace her roots to Queen of Sheba in France. They thought she had at least one webbed foot, and that supposedly carried down to Mother Goose figure for storytelling. The reason Caster of Midrash is a -thrope is because another part of the world thought she had cloven hooves and hairy legs.

To spell out my thoughts: 'Mother Goose Tales' was the subtitle of a book by Perrault that contains 'Little Red Riding Hood', 'Puss in Boots', 'Cinderella', 'Sleeping Beauty', 'Bluebeard', etc.
 
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So, I guess the thing I'm confused about is why Flamel needed to hide the stone? Is it the kind of thing where if Flamel is manifested, the stone is manifested? Sort of like how if Sigfried exists, so too will Fafnir?
Probably. Servants are embodiments of legends, and Flamel's legend revolves around his alchemy in general and the Stone in particular.

Come to think of it, Solomon would probably have the Ark of the Covenant as an NP for the same reason his father David does, if his mastery of magecraft didn't outweigh that aspect of his legend.
 
OK a few facts:

1) Any wolf that has black hair on most of its body has a dog somewhere in its ancestry. The most likely dog breed that was crossed with a wolf to produce it is either the Bas-Rouge or the Beauceron.

2) The Beasts of Gévaudan were notable not simply for being another feral pack of animals, but also for its kill count. The lowest number of deaths caused by it is 60 people in multiple attacks.

3) It started the attacks by going after 14 year old girls and the reason it stuck in people's memories is because the people it killed could not buried with sacraments.

4) Its size was bigger than any regular animal that would attack humans so people were confused about what it even was. Before being put down permanently in the summer of 1767 it was theorized to have been a young lion, a hyena, a large dog, a large wolf or a wolfdog. Or a pack of any of those animals.

That is well beyond just a pack of feral dogs or hungry wolves hunting people.

Again, remember the time period.

We don't actually know how much is true. Even today we get people doing phone calls or swearing that they saw certain missing kid or criminal then it turns out to be 100% false.

And this in a society that's under more vigilance and under watch that ever before.

The Beast of Gévaudan - Wikipedia happened in a time period were they were so lacking in so many things we nowadays take for granted that's ridiculous.

Even if you had several people claiming things that doesn't make it true.

So what we can honesty say is that we don't know how much of it is true.
 
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He didn't even use it so his wife could have children.
Probably wouldn't have worked. The curse on her Magic Crest seems to have been pretty powerful, though not on the level of the Demon Pillar Summoning curse engraved on the Seventy-Two Families Magic Crests. A Grail could have broken it*, but the Stone probably wasn't strong enough.

*Magic Circuits and therefore Magic Crests are part of the soul as well as the body, requiring someone skilled in Spiritual Surgery (such as Touko) to transplant. The Third Magic, which directly manipulates the soul in a manner surpassing mere Spiritual Surgery, could presumably be used to cleanse such a curse from Perenelle's Crest, and even a Lesser Grail can invoke the Third Magic in a limited fashion.
 
Only semi-related, but Lupa could probably also get in as a Servant of some sort. The "she-wolf" that raised Romulus and Remus.

And apparently never got a specific name beyond being a wolf.
 
I think it was a bad decision on his part but its a bad decision that fits his own legend.

As for invincible story creatures, thats not so bad, as long as you kill it with a weapon that says "X dies". Noble Phantasms are stories too after all.

We have one right here in the party even not counting EMIYA.
Jackie will always kill if all three of her conditions are met.
 
There are multiple versions of the story however. Sure the ORIGINAL never has the wolf die, but plenty of the later ones have a lumberjack or woodsman carve him up. Some even have grandma still alive in the beasts belly.
 
Probably wouldn't have worked. The curse on her Magic Crest seems to have been pretty powerful, though not on the level of the Demon Pillar Summoning curse engraved on the Seventy-Two Families Magic Crests. A Grail could have broken it*, but the Stone probably wasn't strong enough.

*Magic Circuits and therefore Magic Crests are part of the soul as well as the body, requiring someone skilled in Spiritual Surgery (such as Touko) to transplant. The Third Magic, which directly manipulates the soul in a manner surpassing mere Spiritual Surgery, could presumably be used to cleanse such a curse from Perenelle's Crest, and even a Lesser Grail can invoke the Third Magic in a limited fashion.
I never put it down on paper (metaphorically speaking), but I had in my head that Perenelle is the seventh daughter of a seventh daughter because all of her siblings and all of her aunts died as a result of the curse, hence why Perenelle couldn't have kids. She herself was close to 50 by the time she married Nick.
Unfortunately not, because in Apocrypha Jeanne met all three conditions when it was used on her and it didn't kill her because of her high levels of Magic Resistance.
Relevant later on, so everyone should keep that in mind.

I'm a bit amused by how many people have completely made up their minds about what's happening. Not surprised, and I won't comment on accuracy, but I am amused.
 

Ehhh... I mean, there are only so many surprise twists that someone can take before they go "Yep, that is totally what is happening," or they fall into, "I don't care anymore."

I mean, it is entirely possible that this is all an elaborate scheme set up by Tohsaka considering that the enemy used fairy tales to attack the appartment and the raven didn't actually say anything that Tohsaka wouldn't actually know (using "M" instead of their true name)... It is also entirely possible that Puss is on Renee's side and was just trying to get her to safety (or perhaps taking her somewhere Tohsaka wants to keep her?)... With this being Tohsaka's attempt to take the grail for himself in exchange for Renee...

But again, after a certain point, people just start saying, "I don't care anymore."
 
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Ehhh... I mean, there are only so many surprise twists that someone can take before they go "Yep, that is totally what is happening," or they fall into, "I don't care anymore."

I mean, it is entirely possible that this is all an elaborate scheme set up by Tohsaka considering that the enemy used fairy tales to attack the appartment and the raven didn't actually say anything that Tohsaka wouldn't actually know (using "M" instead of their true name)... It is also entirely possible that Puss is on Renee's side and was just trying to get her to safety (or perhaps taking her somewhere Tohsaka wants to keep her?)... With this being Tohsaka's attempt to take the grail for himself in exchange for Renee...

But again, after a certain point, people just start saying, "I don't care anymore."
Fair. I threw a bunch of stuff in to try and make London more interesting, but I don't think I succeeded as well as I hoped I would.
 
Fair. I threw a bunch of stuff in to try and make London more interesting, but I don't think I succeeded as well as I hoped I would.

I'm finding it plenty interesting, but, like our protagonists, I just dont have enough information to know what's happening for sure one way or another beyond a few good guesses.

M would certainly make sense for Maleficent, except theres enough other fairy tales present that Perrault would make more sense, except P isn't even close to M, and also we know who M was in canon but this clearly isn't canon because of all the changes, so we can't use that for a sure answer.....


I'm also finding it a bit slow but that's only because I'm reading it update by update - if I read it all at once the pacing would be pretty good.
 
Again, remember the time period.

We don't actually know how much is true. Even today we get people doing phone calls or swearing that they saw certain missing kid or criminal then it turns out to be 100% false.

And this in a society that's under more vigilance and under watch that ever before.

The Beast of Gévaudan - Wikipedia happened in a time period were they were so lacking in so many things we nowadays take for granted that's ridiculous.

Even if you had several people claiming things that doesn't make it true.

So what we can honesty say is that we don't know how much of it is true.

Well you are one of the intended audiences for both Fate and Worm. I genuinely don't even know how to start arguing that your post is wrong in a way that would convince you at this point.

Anyone else interested in this argument? Or is this where it is done for now?

Generally any one plot thread could probably handle a maximum of 2 twists before it stops making sense or develops internal consistency issues anyway.

Go play or watch a playthrough of the Legacy of Kain series and marvel at how twisty it gets while staying internally consistent.
 
Mordred took a threatening step towards him and snarled, "Stop treating her like she's a tool in whatever game you're —"
Yep this is definitely pushing Mordred buttons.

A mage creating a homunculus daughter for a specific purpose who in turn adores/willingly serves while most likely ignorant of their purpose.

I swear it would only be worse if Flamel was a woman or worse a Saber Face
 
The format here is web serial, so if it was done that way here it'd likely also stop making sense even if internally consistent

...No seriously go play or watch a playthrough of the Legacy of Kain series.

The very fact that you think that a linear story like a web serial can't have multiple internally consistent plot twists that twist the entire setting around the bend means that my only reply is to either spoil the entirety of the Legacy of Kain series to you or tell you to go play/watch it.

For the sake of my argument making more sense the Legacy of Kain series works as a linear narrative with multiple plot twists that change the entire setting because it gives itself enough narrative space to twist around without breaking or losing internal consistency.

Like each game in the setting has its own internal plot that is consistent and makes sense as a plot of a video game, but then on top of that each subsequent game gives more lore about the setting itself that then recontextualizes the events of the previous games without making the stories of those games less, but by showing more context as to what happened in them.

Like a small spoiler for the series a boss from the first game called Nupraptor the Mentalist is said in a throwaway line to have corrupted the heroes of the land Dark Souls style including the main protagonist of the first game Kain who has been corrupt from his birth. This fact is repeated in subsequent games very rarely and only by characters who would be aware of who Nupraptor even was and what he had done.

Only at the end of the fifth and last story game of the series is Kain purified right before the final boss fight and his actions in the last boss fight beg the question of how much free will did he have in the actions of the previous four games.

Like yes Kain is a very willful character in the stories of the games, but his corruption affects in a very literal way how he sees the world which means that no matter what he chose his choices have never fully been his own because he could never fully grasp why he was making them.

And because the POW characters for the player are either Kain or people whose lives Kain has shaped that means that the entire setting suddenly tilts sideways as Kain learns things about his world that he did not know, but the player did from other games' protagonists, and then responds in a way that leaves the player wondering what exactly will Kain do now that he can no longer be the same person he was.

This Edit: is how good plot twists are done: By keeping the characters consistent, the readers/players well informed about what is happening and then having the characters respond in a way that is consistent with their characterization so far and the setting itself while at the same time surprising the reader/player by their actions in a logical and satisfying way.

Way too many writers and readers think that the way to pull off a plot twist is to just be unexpected in your writing and subvert reader/viewer/player expectations in order to get that shock factor in, but the truly great plot twists are the ones that make sense as part of the story being told.
 
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And this right here? Is a falsehood. While terms like Therianthrope and Lycanthrope are old and belong to multiple different and differing concepts of shape-shifters the modern day concept of a Werewolf as this large semi-bipedal black wolf-like monstrosity can be directly traced back to the Beasts of Gévaudan from the 1760s.

In the context of Fate this would be an Assassin Class Servant similar to the Hassan of the Hundred Faces with multiple bodies that each would have to be killed to put it down. So while there is no single prototypical werewolf, there is in fact a prototype for the modern werewolf and it could have made it to the Throne of Heroes.
I think it depends, that might be a phantasmal beast rather than a Servant. The gorgon Medusa is a servant but the Pegasus, inspiration for pretty much all modern winged horses, isn't a Servant but a thing a Servant summons. So it could go either way.
 
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Relevant later on, so everyone should keep that in mind.

I'm a bit amused by how many people have completely made up their minds about what's happening. Not surprised, and I won't comment on accuracy, but I am amused.
I'm calling it that at least some of this storybook bullshit is going to fall afoul of one or both of the other ways to beat a being of fantasy other than 'according to it's own rules.' The other methods being, use a greater fantasy, and the Mahoyo method of 'fuck you with maximum power.'

View: https://youtu.be/MEVJp7k_ijA?si=CnWZxZ7_51l6nA3U
 
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I am the only worried how Taylor been basically brainwashed into being Jackie's mother? Why does Jackie got that effect and like Nursery Rhyme doesn't? Or maybe she does...
 
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