Isiri Pudireach
Predictive text can go duck itself
They had to fight Gilles:
Hereafter [Worm x Fate/Grand Order]
- Thread starter James D. Fawkes
- Start date
- Crossover
- Location
- United States
To be fair, she's absolutely right in this instance. The nature of Château d'If meant that there could only be ONE escapee. If Taylor did enter via Shakespeare, she would have gotten herself or Ritsuka killed. Likely the latter since the former dying would leave the less experienced Ritsuka and Rika to save the world.
- Location
- Sweden
I thought the arc was neat.
the arc was kinda a mixed bag for me, by itself the events of it aren't bad, ritsuka is caught, the others can't do anything, theorizing back and forth on what can be done and so on, arguments for why taylor can't go in herself, what happens mentally to someone who must do something when put into a situation where they can't and not even with a situation like the simurgh where sheer distance and not being able to fly is a logical reason for it, ritsuka is right there and she can do nothing etc. all that is solid, but i think there was too much downtime so to say, you could probably shorten it by a chapter or two and miss very little, some of the arguments were effectively repeats of each other, with little to no actual plot effect, just sort of stewing in the frustration of inability to act, even with the ability to read it all in one go and go past it, without waiting a week, it's probably still going to be unpleasant. so i suggest maybe cutting some scenes or shortening them, maybe even going with a 'nothing much changed in the next day' or something like that would work.
one suggestion unrelated to that tho, i suggest putting the ritsuka side story in the actual story, like, one chapter from ritsuka's perspective, then one from the others, then one from him and repeat. it'd help those on other sites, and people who speed read through it on here, it doesn't matter that they're fairly short compared to the taylor chapters, they disrupt the frustration and make it more bearable.
this sums it up basically, we simmer in the frustration a bit too much. even after the plot points are done, the character growth has been made, we're still waiting for things to end
one suggestion unrelated to that tho, i suggest putting the ritsuka side story in the actual story, like, one chapter from ritsuka's perspective, then one from the others, then one from him and repeat. it'd help those on other sites, and people who speed read through it on here, it doesn't matter that they're fairly short compared to the taylor chapters, they disrupt the frustration and make it more bearable.
well, technically, she could've had her insect powers the entire time, the base is in Antarctica and not near enough to the ocean for her to pick up crabs, and the first singularity was a burning hellscape devoid of life, the second singularity is the first time since she awoke 2 years ago that she even had the chance to come across insects again
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- Location
- Philippines
Sounds like a good omake material. Taylor forces things to go her way, suffers the consequences of forcing things and leaves Ritsuka to die because it's the most logical choice.
And then, when the final stage is reached, is unable to defeat Goetia.
A Bad End if there ever was one.
Though to be honest, I'm just glad the arc's over with. Sure, Ritsuka's gonna go back to being background noise in all likelihood but nothing can be done about it
Karyis
procrastinating as we speak
- Location
- Texas
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I don't like dogpiling people with criticisms, especially considering James got dogpiled heavily in AEoSaS, but I think this is the one case where I have to say something. Because this:
Is exactly what I would have done if I was your editor. The latter two chapters were unnecessary in achieving the goal of making the audience feel the frustration of having to wait, and it all could have very easily been timeskipped without as much audience apathy setting in. And, truth be told, I think this arc as a whole is a culmination of a recurring problem I've been noticing lately, not just in this arc but throughout the fic.
Namely, you keep spending too many words on things that don't matter.
Other people have mentioned the repetitiveness in writing out the same routine over and over again. Showering, checking in, having breakfast, talking with Emiya, and so on. But that doesn't just happen here, it happens with every single arc when they get back to Chaldea or are waiting in-between singularities. It just doesn't register because there's actual other stuff happening in those chapters besides the cafeteria scenes, and more gets talked about beyond what feels like the exact same conversations here.
Here's a spoiler with a collection of quotes illustrating what I mean by this, specifically around praising Emiya's food:
Like, I understand it isn't as if you're saying the exact same things here every single time, and there are plenty of other unqiue things happening in these chapters (and in these scenes) to balance it out. But there are only so many times you can praise Emiya's cooking like this before it starts to feel like the same thing being said over, and over, and over again.
I think the place where I started noticing this big time though was in Septem. Namely, the chapter where they went through the tunnel in the volcano to get to that leyline. This entire section:
Could have been cut/glossed over and nothing would have changed. Nothing. All it did was to help make the audience feel the length of the tunnel, which I know is what you were going for...but it's not necessary. It's a whole bunch of nothing, just as people have been complaining about here. And this isn't even the only example I've found when I went and reread the chapter to find this tidbit.
Again, if I were your editor, I would be cutting huge chunks of this exact sort of prose and the fic would likely have been better for it. I know that you've been talking with your editor extensively, and I know you've mentioned that you've been pretty happy with a lot of the content still here...but--and please forgive me when I say this--I'm going to another poster and say it feels self-indulgent.
I don't like being mean like this. I don't like giving this sort of criticism. But I think this is a good learning opportunity now that the arc is over, and I think it's one you need to take to heart. This was a poorly managed arc, and while I know I could've waited it out and not followed the drip feed...do you really think this experience is going to be that much better going through it all at once? Because while the effect was definitely made worse by the week-long wait between chapters, it isn't going to be fun for archive-bingers either. It's going to feel like a lot of repetition, and a lot of nothing. Because readers notice this stuff, just as I've been noticing it since back in Septem.
And frankly...trying to emulate that exact sort of feeling of frustration and having to wait a long time or else having to walk for hours and hours (such as with the Septem segment)...it isn't a good creative choice. It's just not. Doesn't matter if its for a single chapter or several--a story (especially serial fiction like this!) needs to engage the audience if it's going to keep it. And this exact sort of creative choice is what loses people, because they feel like nothing's happening, grow apathetic, or else get bored.
Serial fiction lives and dies on it's audience checking in every week, just as traditionally published authors live and die on having their books be fun to read, thus allowing people to recommend it to more and more readers by word of mouth to share that fun. Boredom and/or apathy kills stories. Kills careers. You're a good writer, James. I genuinely enjoy checking in every week (or every two) to see this update, just as I did for AEoSaS. Please listen to your readers when they tell you something like this isn't working. Even if it means changing the final product in a big way.
Again, I apologize for being so harsh. As I said, I don't like making posts like this or else giving this sort of criticism, and I think this is probably the sole exception I'll make here. But please know that this is coming from a place of care. And since I don't like the idea of tearing people down either, I hope I was able to at least make this constructive for you.
Edit: found a typo. If I realize there's more, I'll fix those too.
Is exactly what I would have done if I was your editor. The latter two chapters were unnecessary in achieving the goal of making the audience feel the frustration of having to wait, and it all could have very easily been timeskipped without as much audience apathy setting in. And, truth be told, I think this arc as a whole is a culmination of a recurring problem I've been noticing lately, not just in this arc but throughout the fic.
Namely, you keep spending too many words on things that don't matter.
Other people have mentioned the repetitiveness in writing out the same routine over and over again. Showering, checking in, having breakfast, talking with Emiya, and so on. But that doesn't just happen here, it happens with every single arc when they get back to Chaldea or are waiting in-between singularities. It just doesn't register because there's actual other stuff happening in those chapters besides the cafeteria scenes, and more gets talked about beyond what feels like the exact same conversations here.
Here's a spoiler with a collection of quotes illustrating what I mean by this, specifically around praising Emiya's food:
XXIX:
"Of course," he continued, "here at Chaldea, there isn't much to do in our off time. Since the simulator still isn't fully repaired, the only thing for us Servants to do while you Masters are sleeping is to sleep ourselves. That is, if we haven't been roped into other things, like cooking."
A snort huffed out of my nostrils. "If you quit, Rika will mutiny."
He shrugged and shook his head, like, 'what can you do?'
"I think she might actually order me with a Command Spell if I tried to stop," Emiya said, but his voice was filled with humor, not bitterness. "It seems like a spectacular waste of such a precious resource, so I guess I'll just have to content myself with my lot in life and continue to be Chaldea's chef."
"You sound very broken up about it."
"Somehow," he said wryly, "I'll try and muddle through." He added a dollop of butter atop my waffles, set a few slices of strawberries on the very top, and then placed a glass of orange juice in the corner of my tray. "All ready. Enjoy your breakfast, Taylor."
Oh, I definitely would. No need to inflate his head any further, though, so I left him with a simple, "Thanks."
[...]
My first bite brought a burst of sweet and salty goodness, and in the privacy of my own head, I had to admit again that Emiya really was an excellent chef. Not what you expected when you summoned the spirit of a deceased hero to do battle against the enemies of mankind, but then you never could predict what sort of everyday skills they must have picked up while they were alive, could you?
XXXIV:
Once my newly improved dagger was stashed back in my room — no matter how tempting it might have been to carry it around with me — it was about time to get some lunch, so I made my way to the cafeteria. As with most days, it was largely empty, because the only ones with anything resembling a stable schedule were me and the twins, although there were a few from the morning shift who were grabbing a bite while they had the time.
There was no sign yet of Ritsuka or Rika, but Emiya was still manning the stove, just as he had been a few hours before for breakfast and last night for dinner. I was probably supposed to feel bad about the fact that he'd been relegated so completely to kitchen duty, but it was hard to care as much when he was the only reason we had anything that was actually tasty.
He really was spoiling me. Us. I didn't have to be a precog to predict that things would be rough when this was all over and he had no reason to stick around anymore, or hell, if something went wrong during the Singularities and we lost him. The cafeteria might just be empty for a week, either from mourning or from the simple fact that none of the food would be tasty enough to compare.
He greeted me with a friendly smile and a polite hello when I went up for my food, and the plate he set down on my tray was loaded with what looked like an ordinary grilled cheese sandwich and a small bowl of soup. My nose, however, wasn't as easily deceived as my eyes, and I could smell the sharp burst of extra spices that had been added to the bread and layered between the slices of cheese. A hint of garlic curled up my nostrils, a promise of things to come.
Like I said. We were screwed the instant he was gone.
XXXV:
A brisk run on the treadmill banished any remnants of sleep, and then a hot shower eased away the soreness and tension left behind by exercise, and I entered the cafeteria refreshed and energized to eat another of Emiya's delicious breakfast meals. It might have just been an omelet, but he'd done something different, added some spices that I couldn't quite identify, and sprinkled bits of chopped bacon through the layer of cheese in the middle.
LXXI:
Siegfried and Arash both offered to let me go next, but I declined and let them get their own meals first, and about five minutes later, I sat down at a table — with the two of them, fittingly enough — and dug into another one of Emiya's delicious meals.
He could make toast into a gourmet meal, I was sure of it.
LXXII:
The next several days passed with agonizing slowness, made only somewhat more bearable by the comfort of the routine we had settled into. In the early morning, we Masters would get up, go to the gym, get in a daily workout session, and after we showered off all of the sweat, go to the cafeteria to have one of Emiya's delicious meals.
LXXIV:
"Be with you in a minute, Rika," I told her. My stomach gurgled again as the smell of Emiya's cooking reached my nose. Something fruity and spicy — lemon? Had he brought some back with him from Rome?
If he did, he didn't say so as he set a large piece of chicken on a plate for me and drizzled a sweet and sour honey lemon sauce over it, then added some rice — of course, because he had to be a stereotype, too — and some steamed vegetables. It looked and smelled heavenly.
"Something a little more Western this time," he told me with a cryptic smile. "Change things up a little, you know?"
"Of course."
"Master seems to like it," he said, shrugging. "So did the others who have already eaten. You'll have to let me know if you enjoy it as much as they do."
"I don't think anyone enjoys your food as much as Rika does," I told him wryly.
He smiled cryptically again. "Oh, there's someone. She ate like a lion."
"That's all you're going to tell me, isn't it."
"I wonder."
[...]
I went back to my food and continued eating. The sweet and sour tang exploded on my tongue with every bite — delicious, just like everything else Emiya had ever cooked. Fugly Bob's just couldn't compare, and while the regular cafeteria staff had tried their best, even their best was woefully inadequate when put up against Emiya's regular fare.
LXXVIII:
After my workout, I went back to my room and finished my daily ablutions, getting a hot shower that I lingered in for just a few extra minutes. Then, I went to the cafeteria to get some breakfast. Emiya was only too happy to burden me with a tray of homemade waffles, a few rashers of bacon, and a glass of orange juice.
I'd said it before and I'd keep saying it: we were screwed as soon as we lost him.
"Of course," he continued, "here at Chaldea, there isn't much to do in our off time. Since the simulator still isn't fully repaired, the only thing for us Servants to do while you Masters are sleeping is to sleep ourselves. That is, if we haven't been roped into other things, like cooking."
A snort huffed out of my nostrils. "If you quit, Rika will mutiny."
He shrugged and shook his head, like, 'what can you do?'
"I think she might actually order me with a Command Spell if I tried to stop," Emiya said, but his voice was filled with humor, not bitterness. "It seems like a spectacular waste of such a precious resource, so I guess I'll just have to content myself with my lot in life and continue to be Chaldea's chef."
"You sound very broken up about it."
"Somehow," he said wryly, "I'll try and muddle through." He added a dollop of butter atop my waffles, set a few slices of strawberries on the very top, and then placed a glass of orange juice in the corner of my tray. "All ready. Enjoy your breakfast, Taylor."
Oh, I definitely would. No need to inflate his head any further, though, so I left him with a simple, "Thanks."
[...]
My first bite brought a burst of sweet and salty goodness, and in the privacy of my own head, I had to admit again that Emiya really was an excellent chef. Not what you expected when you summoned the spirit of a deceased hero to do battle against the enemies of mankind, but then you never could predict what sort of everyday skills they must have picked up while they were alive, could you?
XXXIV:
Once my newly improved dagger was stashed back in my room — no matter how tempting it might have been to carry it around with me — it was about time to get some lunch, so I made my way to the cafeteria. As with most days, it was largely empty, because the only ones with anything resembling a stable schedule were me and the twins, although there were a few from the morning shift who were grabbing a bite while they had the time.
There was no sign yet of Ritsuka or Rika, but Emiya was still manning the stove, just as he had been a few hours before for breakfast and last night for dinner. I was probably supposed to feel bad about the fact that he'd been relegated so completely to kitchen duty, but it was hard to care as much when he was the only reason we had anything that was actually tasty.
He really was spoiling me. Us. I didn't have to be a precog to predict that things would be rough when this was all over and he had no reason to stick around anymore, or hell, if something went wrong during the Singularities and we lost him. The cafeteria might just be empty for a week, either from mourning or from the simple fact that none of the food would be tasty enough to compare.
He greeted me with a friendly smile and a polite hello when I went up for my food, and the plate he set down on my tray was loaded with what looked like an ordinary grilled cheese sandwich and a small bowl of soup. My nose, however, wasn't as easily deceived as my eyes, and I could smell the sharp burst of extra spices that had been added to the bread and layered between the slices of cheese. A hint of garlic curled up my nostrils, a promise of things to come.
Like I said. We were screwed the instant he was gone.
XXXV:
A brisk run on the treadmill banished any remnants of sleep, and then a hot shower eased away the soreness and tension left behind by exercise, and I entered the cafeteria refreshed and energized to eat another of Emiya's delicious breakfast meals. It might have just been an omelet, but he'd done something different, added some spices that I couldn't quite identify, and sprinkled bits of chopped bacon through the layer of cheese in the middle.
LXXI:
Siegfried and Arash both offered to let me go next, but I declined and let them get their own meals first, and about five minutes later, I sat down at a table — with the two of them, fittingly enough — and dug into another one of Emiya's delicious meals.
He could make toast into a gourmet meal, I was sure of it.
LXXII:
The next several days passed with agonizing slowness, made only somewhat more bearable by the comfort of the routine we had settled into. In the early morning, we Masters would get up, go to the gym, get in a daily workout session, and after we showered off all of the sweat, go to the cafeteria to have one of Emiya's delicious meals.
LXXIV:
"Be with you in a minute, Rika," I told her. My stomach gurgled again as the smell of Emiya's cooking reached my nose. Something fruity and spicy — lemon? Had he brought some back with him from Rome?
If he did, he didn't say so as he set a large piece of chicken on a plate for me and drizzled a sweet and sour honey lemon sauce over it, then added some rice — of course, because he had to be a stereotype, too — and some steamed vegetables. It looked and smelled heavenly.
"Something a little more Western this time," he told me with a cryptic smile. "Change things up a little, you know?"
"Of course."
"Master seems to like it," he said, shrugging. "So did the others who have already eaten. You'll have to let me know if you enjoy it as much as they do."
"I don't think anyone enjoys your food as much as Rika does," I told him wryly.
He smiled cryptically again. "Oh, there's someone. She ate like a lion."
"That's all you're going to tell me, isn't it."
"I wonder."
[...]
I went back to my food and continued eating. The sweet and sour tang exploded on my tongue with every bite — delicious, just like everything else Emiya had ever cooked. Fugly Bob's just couldn't compare, and while the regular cafeteria staff had tried their best, even their best was woefully inadequate when put up against Emiya's regular fare.
LXXVIII:
After my workout, I went back to my room and finished my daily ablutions, getting a hot shower that I lingered in for just a few extra minutes. Then, I went to the cafeteria to get some breakfast. Emiya was only too happy to burden me with a tray of homemade waffles, a few rashers of bacon, and a glass of orange juice.
I'd said it before and I'd keep saying it: we were screwed as soon as we lost him.
I think the place where I started noticing this big time though was in Septem. Namely, the chapter where they went through the tunnel in the volcano to get to that leyline. This entire section:
The deeper we got into the tunnel, the hotter it got, and the more intense the friction of Etna's magical energy pushing against my magic circuits got. We had all long passed breaking out into sweat a while ago, but it was getting to the point that I was sure my shirt was going to be soaked through at the chest and pits before long. Rika and Ritsuka gamely kept on, but they were feeling the discomfort too and tried to alleviate it however they could — tugging at their collars, fanning themselves with their hands, whatever could provide even a modicum of relief.
It was one of the few times I was regretting my insistence on wearing my hair so long.
"God, it's hot," Rika complained. "You sure we need to go all the way down, Senpai? Couldn't we set Queen Booty up here?"
"It's the difference between hours and days, Rika," I answered her, and if I was a little more impatient than usual because of the heat, well, I didn't have it in me to feel bad about that just then.
I understood her problem, I really did, but having to deal with it for a couple of hours was better than having to spend days at Etna, even if the rest of us camped out at the base of the mountain or something while Boudica sat inside. It was just better to stick it out and get it over with as quick as we could.
Plus, we needed to get those higher resolution scans. We couldn't do that until we were sitting right on top of the nexus.
"We might need to get the Masters out as soon as everything is set up," Arash said worriedly, his brow furrowing. "You guys are going to be losing a lot of water if you have to sit down there the whole time Boudica is healing."
And the instant he said it, I knew he was right. With how much we were sweating just getting down there, dehydration was going to be a major concern before long, and if we tried to stay down there with Boudica the entire time, we'd be putting our health at serious risk. Even getting there and going back was probably going to be dangerous.
"We'll see if Da Vinci can send us some bottled water to tide us over," I agreed. "We'll stay down in the cavern long enough to get the scans, get Boudica settled in, and then we'll go back out. Spartacus can stay behind to guard her."
Neither Spartacus nor Boudica said anything, on account of the fact they were both still in spirit form, but the fact that they didn't materialize to speak out against the plan told me enough about whether or not they agreed with it.
"The less time we have to spend in this stupid tunnel, the better," Rika muttered.
The lava tube continued on for what felt like miles, and it may in fact have actually been that long. It was hard to tell time and distance down here, and with my swarm too thin to give me a good feel for my surroundings, even I was having trouble judging how deep into the mountain we'd gone or how long the tube really was. We had long since left any semblance of daylight behind, so for all any of us knew, we'd been walking for hours.
The one thing I was sure about was that the tube gently sloped downwards. It wasn't steep enough for us to feel it as we walked, but I'd noticed it much earlier, back when I still had a larger selection of bugs around me in the dirt. It wasn't as much of a concern as the slowly thickening magical energy all around us, but privately, I worried about that, too. If there was a sudden dropoff or if the slope got too steep too suddenly, it could spell trouble for us getting to and from the cavern we needed to reach.
It was one of the few times I was regretting my insistence on wearing my hair so long.
"God, it's hot," Rika complained. "You sure we need to go all the way down, Senpai? Couldn't we set Queen Booty up here?"
"It's the difference between hours and days, Rika," I answered her, and if I was a little more impatient than usual because of the heat, well, I didn't have it in me to feel bad about that just then.
I understood her problem, I really did, but having to deal with it for a couple of hours was better than having to spend days at Etna, even if the rest of us camped out at the base of the mountain or something while Boudica sat inside. It was just better to stick it out and get it over with as quick as we could.
Plus, we needed to get those higher resolution scans. We couldn't do that until we were sitting right on top of the nexus.
"We might need to get the Masters out as soon as everything is set up," Arash said worriedly, his brow furrowing. "You guys are going to be losing a lot of water if you have to sit down there the whole time Boudica is healing."
And the instant he said it, I knew he was right. With how much we were sweating just getting down there, dehydration was going to be a major concern before long, and if we tried to stay down there with Boudica the entire time, we'd be putting our health at serious risk. Even getting there and going back was probably going to be dangerous.
"We'll see if Da Vinci can send us some bottled water to tide us over," I agreed. "We'll stay down in the cavern long enough to get the scans, get Boudica settled in, and then we'll go back out. Spartacus can stay behind to guard her."
Neither Spartacus nor Boudica said anything, on account of the fact they were both still in spirit form, but the fact that they didn't materialize to speak out against the plan told me enough about whether or not they agreed with it.
"The less time we have to spend in this stupid tunnel, the better," Rika muttered.
The lava tube continued on for what felt like miles, and it may in fact have actually been that long. It was hard to tell time and distance down here, and with my swarm too thin to give me a good feel for my surroundings, even I was having trouble judging how deep into the mountain we'd gone or how long the tube really was. We had long since left any semblance of daylight behind, so for all any of us knew, we'd been walking for hours.
The one thing I was sure about was that the tube gently sloped downwards. It wasn't steep enough for us to feel it as we walked, but I'd noticed it much earlier, back when I still had a larger selection of bugs around me in the dirt. It wasn't as much of a concern as the slowly thickening magical energy all around us, but privately, I worried about that, too. If there was a sudden dropoff or if the slope got too steep too suddenly, it could spell trouble for us getting to and from the cavern we needed to reach.
Again, if I were your editor, I would be cutting huge chunks of this exact sort of prose and the fic would likely have been better for it. I know that you've been talking with your editor extensively, and I know you've mentioned that you've been pretty happy with a lot of the content still here...but--and please forgive me when I say this--I'm going to another poster and say it feels self-indulgent.
I don't like being mean like this. I don't like giving this sort of criticism. But I think this is a good learning opportunity now that the arc is over, and I think it's one you need to take to heart. This was a poorly managed arc, and while I know I could've waited it out and not followed the drip feed...do you really think this experience is going to be that much better going through it all at once? Because while the effect was definitely made worse by the week-long wait between chapters, it isn't going to be fun for archive-bingers either. It's going to feel like a lot of repetition, and a lot of nothing. Because readers notice this stuff, just as I've been noticing it since back in Septem.
And frankly...trying to emulate that exact sort of feeling of frustration and having to wait a long time or else having to walk for hours and hours (such as with the Septem segment)...it isn't a good creative choice. It's just not. Doesn't matter if its for a single chapter or several--a story (especially serial fiction like this!) needs to engage the audience if it's going to keep it. And this exact sort of creative choice is what loses people, because they feel like nothing's happening, grow apathetic, or else get bored.
Serial fiction lives and dies on it's audience checking in every week, just as traditionally published authors live and die on having their books be fun to read, thus allowing people to recommend it to more and more readers by word of mouth to share that fun. Boredom and/or apathy kills stories. Kills careers. You're a good writer, James. I genuinely enjoy checking in every week (or every two) to see this update, just as I did for AEoSaS. Please listen to your readers when they tell you something like this isn't working. Even if it means changing the final product in a big way.
Again, I apologize for being so harsh. As I said, I don't like making posts like this or else giving this sort of criticism, and I think this is probably the sole exception I'll make here. But please know that this is coming from a place of care. And since I don't like the idea of tearing people down either, I hope I was able to at least make this constructive for you.
Edit: found a typo. If I realize there's more, I'll fix those too.
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- Location
- Yaroslavl, Russia
At the start of the arc I thought that aside from 'oh shite Ritsuka is taken' chapter we would follow Ritsuka the entire way, internal thoughts and all. Relevant side story chapters read like a glimpse of that possibility.
That way, we could've watch Ritsuka's development as it happens, see him interact with Dantes and Jalter. Instead it looks like we're going to be simply informed about it.
It's like reading Wikipedia film plot synopsis instead of watching the film.
That way, we could've watch Ritsuka's development as it happens, see him interact with Dantes and Jalter. Instead it looks like we're going to be simply informed about it.
It's like reading Wikipedia film plot synopsis instead of watching the film.
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I'm not terribly pleased, but you know I don't think it was that bad or so long that I really felt the need to complain about it either. They reacted accordingly and believably to something they poorly understood and had little ability to actually impact, deduced what they could, and were making plans on how to handle it as best they feasibly could.
I think the most insulting bit is that they were so confident Ritsuka wouldn't make it on his own. Have a little faith, he already managed half way guys.
Here's what I think is off: Taylor didn't go and immediate read the actual translated book in the library or on a computer terminal when they found out what was going on and make some informed observations based off of that.
I think the most insulting bit is that they were so confident Ritsuka wouldn't make it on his own. Have a little faith, he already managed half way guys.
Here's what I think is off: Taylor didn't go and immediate read the actual translated book in the library or on a computer terminal when they found out what was going on and make some informed observations based off of that.
>El-Melloi II grunted. "That count referred to me as the fifth Lord of Judgment, for whatever that's worth. If we're right that it can't summon Servants independently and has to make use of the ones already here, then he's already made it about halfway through — and handled two of the more challenging opponents that could have been thrown at him, too."<
So, I'm just gonna be straight here and say that this should have already negated their theory. If they've only had 4 Servants say they've been pulled into Chateau D'If, then this should have let them know that THEY ARE ONE SHORT. Best case scenario is the real one, where they're mistaken about the parameters of the curse and Ritsuka will wake soon anyway. Most logical scenario is that they've got a Servant that was pulled into the curse and didn't own up to it, which should be at least casting some suspicion around. Worst case is that it will keep pulling in Servants until Ritsuka is dead or 'redeemed.' In any case, the "Fifth" part of Fifth Lord of Judgment should have been noted and commented on, ESPECIALLY given who was giving this information. Frankly, it's a little bit of a plot-hole that NOBODY notices that, and it feels like it was left that way so you could just have the arc conclude with as little direct intervention from the other cast members as possible.
Which brings me to an important point; I don't think that you're trying to put down Taylor or erode her character or anything, but the fact is that aside from the first day, which I actually found to be probably pretty close to how said characters would react, and was actually kinda proud that even if Taylor was still highly considering just going in and doing the job herself AGAINST everyone else's instructions, she was still holding herself back, even if only because she knew that she couldn't actually accomplish it. And then...the following chapters did not have anything happen. I have to agree with others that this could have been cut down. A lot. What's more, the characterization is inconsistent even within the story. Taylor, going to bed day one, is only barely holding herself back from beating on Shakespeare until he shoves her into the curse to save Ritsuka and then the following days have her just be moderately frustrated and annoyed? There was a bit of an argument between Marie and Taylor in the most recent chapter, but given what you'd written, I was expecting Taylor to be cooking up schemes to get Da Vinci and Roman to vacate the infirmary by end of day two at the latest, unless one of them and/or Marie managed to have a very serious heart-to-heart with her.
I'm not one of the people who think that Taylor should be able to fight a Servant by herself, and I agree with what I have understood to be your intentions for Taylor in this fic. That being "Taylor learning that she DOESN'T have to handle everything herself and grow into being more of a mentor to the next generation as she readies herself for a peaceful life afterwards." But I can't say I disagree that Taylor being IN the story has had much less impact on the story at large than anyone would expect. Yes, Marie would still be dead, and wouldn't be getting her character developed any, but at the same time all the changes to strategy and how the Singularities pan out has been due more to you increasing the Servant line-ups of each Singularity and extrapolating their actions. Which I am actually a fan of, but it does mean that Taylor has gotten to feeling very superfluous to the narrative at large, and has become most noticeable here. If Taylor and her actions were not in this story at all, then while the earlier Singularities might be a bit more difficult, this ENTIRE ARC would play out EXACTLY the same. Ritsuka gets Cursed, Rika wants to go in, but is denied because Roman and Da Vinci can't risk the only other Master, which means that they wait it out while Rika stays by his side and hopes he pulls through. Taylor has only nominally been a driver of the plot, outside of a couple of Badass Establishing Scenes, but they've yet to go anywhere other than being kinda cool.
I don't like doing this here because it feels like I'm dogpiling on you with everyone else, but if I don't say it now, I'll forget. I'm still gonna keep reading this story for now, and I hope that others do as well, as you've got a decent writing style and some interesting ideas, but if things keep going as they are, then people are gonna feel like Taylor's just here to draw the Worm crowd instead of actually being a major part of the story, and your readership will suffer for it.
Best of luck.
So, I'm just gonna be straight here and say that this should have already negated their theory. If they've only had 4 Servants say they've been pulled into Chateau D'If, then this should have let them know that THEY ARE ONE SHORT. Best case scenario is the real one, where they're mistaken about the parameters of the curse and Ritsuka will wake soon anyway. Most logical scenario is that they've got a Servant that was pulled into the curse and didn't own up to it, which should be at least casting some suspicion around. Worst case is that it will keep pulling in Servants until Ritsuka is dead or 'redeemed.' In any case, the "Fifth" part of Fifth Lord of Judgment should have been noted and commented on, ESPECIALLY given who was giving this information. Frankly, it's a little bit of a plot-hole that NOBODY notices that, and it feels like it was left that way so you could just have the arc conclude with as little direct intervention from the other cast members as possible.
Which brings me to an important point; I don't think that you're trying to put down Taylor or erode her character or anything, but the fact is that aside from the first day, which I actually found to be probably pretty close to how said characters would react, and was actually kinda proud that even if Taylor was still highly considering just going in and doing the job herself AGAINST everyone else's instructions, she was still holding herself back, even if only because she knew that she couldn't actually accomplish it. And then...the following chapters did not have anything happen. I have to agree with others that this could have been cut down. A lot. What's more, the characterization is inconsistent even within the story. Taylor, going to bed day one, is only barely holding herself back from beating on Shakespeare until he shoves her into the curse to save Ritsuka and then the following days have her just be moderately frustrated and annoyed? There was a bit of an argument between Marie and Taylor in the most recent chapter, but given what you'd written, I was expecting Taylor to be cooking up schemes to get Da Vinci and Roman to vacate the infirmary by end of day two at the latest, unless one of them and/or Marie managed to have a very serious heart-to-heart with her.
I'm not one of the people who think that Taylor should be able to fight a Servant by herself, and I agree with what I have understood to be your intentions for Taylor in this fic. That being "Taylor learning that she DOESN'T have to handle everything herself and grow into being more of a mentor to the next generation as she readies herself for a peaceful life afterwards." But I can't say I disagree that Taylor being IN the story has had much less impact on the story at large than anyone would expect. Yes, Marie would still be dead, and wouldn't be getting her character developed any, but at the same time all the changes to strategy and how the Singularities pan out has been due more to you increasing the Servant line-ups of each Singularity and extrapolating their actions. Which I am actually a fan of, but it does mean that Taylor has gotten to feeling very superfluous to the narrative at large, and has become most noticeable here. If Taylor and her actions were not in this story at all, then while the earlier Singularities might be a bit more difficult, this ENTIRE ARC would play out EXACTLY the same. Ritsuka gets Cursed, Rika wants to go in, but is denied because Roman and Da Vinci can't risk the only other Master, which means that they wait it out while Rika stays by his side and hopes he pulls through. Taylor has only nominally been a driver of the plot, outside of a couple of Badass Establishing Scenes, but they've yet to go anywhere other than being kinda cool.
I don't like doing this here because it feels like I'm dogpiling on you with everyone else, but if I don't say it now, I'll forget. I'm still gonna keep reading this story for now, and I hope that others do as well, as you've got a decent writing style and some interesting ideas, but if things keep going as they are, then people are gonna feel like Taylor's just here to draw the Worm crowd instead of actually being a major part of the story, and your readership will suffer for it.
Best of luck.
They probably think Jalter makes five, but aren't putting together that Bradamante makes six, meaning yes, they are still one short.
- Location
- Tennessee
Some dissent from the (seemingly) popular opinion, I liked this event arc. I didn't love it, but it was nice for a change, and I like that Jalter got to feature and get some development. The fact that the characters didn't have all the answers, EMIYA didn't have a solution in his Swiss army knife collection, etc. was good.
Narratively, it serves as a mini-arc that underscores that even the greatest heroes of legend can be brought up short and made to feel helpless, and it doesn't feel cheap.
I dont really know about the asymmetric development of Ritsuka vs Rika - I know Rika has the whole thing with EMIYA and some more characterization in Okeanos with her own insecurities, but Ritsuka got to face some of his own and persevere, which Rika desperately needs to do right now.
I never got to participate in the event in-game, so I can't speak to any of that.
Narratively, it serves as a mini-arc that underscores that even the greatest heroes of legend can be brought up short and made to feel helpless, and it doesn't feel cheap.
I dont really know about the asymmetric development of Ritsuka vs Rika - I know Rika has the whole thing with EMIYA and some more characterization in Okeanos with her own insecurities, but Ritsuka got to face some of his own and persevere, which Rika desperately needs to do right now.
I never got to participate in the event in-game, so I can't speak to any of that.
Along with the rest of the post, but this part specifically, I heavily disagree
SolipsistSerpent
Endlessly Devouring
It's a good argument her first summon was Watcher Class Servant: Queen Administrator. Or possibly Watcher Class: Taylor Herbert.
Why is nobody bringing up Abraham Lincoln, the man hunted vampires. Just change it to Dead Apostles and he becomes even more badass.
I watched a documentary about it once, damn shame I can't find it now.
Source: Trust me bro.
MWKillKenny84
Lurking from the Trauma Switch.
- Location
- Vado Ligure
Because, as a POTUS, his strenght is required to empower Presi-Lion Thomas Alva Edison to a point where he can match and surpass his peer Nikola Tesla (something shared with other POTUS), par per the events of the American Singularity.
- Location
- United States
You still can you know. This event, SE.RA.PH, and "All the Statesmen"... for some reason... got the the Main Interlude treatment.
They aren't cheap, but they are in the Rare prism shop. The rewards are actually pretty good since the welfare Servants and mats can still be earned. Though only Dantes' event comes with the respective boss rush challenge quest. The others are story only.
Except, all of the Jalter feature/development only occurs in the sidestory. And guess what, in the original plan, the sidestory didn't exist. It was only because so many people complained in the thread that the author even decided to make/post the sidestory.
The entire thing would have been fine if this entire thing had been released as on single whole/chunk. Instead, it got dragged out, week by week, to the point a whole ton of people got sick of the entire thing by the second chapter. So, yeah, there are legitimate complaints that people are making.
The fact that you liked it makes me think that you read through the entire thing in one sitting. Which would make the entire thing more palatable. Of course, I'm just guessing. So it is very likely I'm wrong.
i mean, even reading through the entire thing in one sitting is probably not going to be all that amazing, it's just gonna be faster, with less anticipation, but still with issues present. and reading it all at once, also means you miss the side story in all likelihood, hence why i think it shouldn't be side story at all, but intermixed between each chapter of this arc, it's basically required reading for you to get through
Zedman7054
Eternally 3rd
- Location
- United States
I think that this arc, contrary to what's being said, is quite good for what it's supposed to represent. The Demonic Tower event is the first of its kind in Fate GO, the first time the PC's magic narcolepsy really comes up outside the prologue, and showing the initial panic, fear, and the growing almost monotony of the staff not involved with it was perfect.
The argument can be made that nobody did anything, and that everything could have been condensed, but that's the point. All the staff, Rika, Mash, Olga, Roman, da Vinci, and Taylor could only wait and hope. Wait and Hope. That's the central conflict of the arc. Everyone is so used to being able to do something to try and help others that the crew actively struggle with their helplessness, perhaps most of all being Taylor who's so used to being the one who does something. She'll do something, anything, in the hopes that it tips the balance even a little bit to make something better, because that's what her life was. But if Chaldea had sent anyone to help Ritsuka, then only one person would be able to make it out and the other would have been left in a coma or died. The winning move was to wait and hope that Ritsuka could do this without the aid of Chaldea.
Taylor says it herself in the last chapter. The only one who truly 100% believed that Ritsuka could make his way through the Chateau de ' Ilf was Mash. This isn't to call out everyone for not trusting Ritsuka's abilities or capabilities, but I think that instead of setting up and solving a conflict like a normal arc plot, this storyline was more about setting up and feeding meta-plots, storylines that expand through multiple other story arcs.
Ritsuka's growth as a Master and a person, Rika's relationship with him and Emiya, Olga's powerful negative feelings of self-worth, and of course Taylor's need to do something to protect others even to her own detriment and risk. All of these storylines were allowed the chance to breath in a tense situation without an imminent physical threat looming over them, something that they could focus on, a problem to solve, a fight to win, and in fact being forced to confront those conflicts while an immaterial danger does.
And I find that gripping.
The argument can be made that nobody did anything, and that everything could have been condensed, but that's the point. All the staff, Rika, Mash, Olga, Roman, da Vinci, and Taylor could only wait and hope. Wait and Hope. That's the central conflict of the arc. Everyone is so used to being able to do something to try and help others that the crew actively struggle with their helplessness, perhaps most of all being Taylor who's so used to being the one who does something. She'll do something, anything, in the hopes that it tips the balance even a little bit to make something better, because that's what her life was. But if Chaldea had sent anyone to help Ritsuka, then only one person would be able to make it out and the other would have been left in a coma or died. The winning move was to wait and hope that Ritsuka could do this without the aid of Chaldea.
Taylor says it herself in the last chapter. The only one who truly 100% believed that Ritsuka could make his way through the Chateau de ' Ilf was Mash. This isn't to call out everyone for not trusting Ritsuka's abilities or capabilities, but I think that instead of setting up and solving a conflict like a normal arc plot, this storyline was more about setting up and feeding meta-plots, storylines that expand through multiple other story arcs.
Ritsuka's growth as a Master and a person, Rika's relationship with him and Emiya, Olga's powerful negative feelings of self-worth, and of course Taylor's need to do something to protect others even to her own detriment and risk. All of these storylines were allowed the chance to breath in a tense situation without an imminent physical threat looming over them, something that they could focus on, a problem to solve, a fight to win, and in fact being forced to confront those conflicts while an immaterial danger does.
And I find that gripping.
I think it is fine when combined with reading the Side story chapters to break things up a bit and shine some light on Jalter and Ritsuka
I am actually rather looking forward to the After action report
I am actually rather looking forward to the After action report
Sir_Travelsalot
Never wakes up tired.
- Location
- At Home
@James D. Fawkes I think, more than Taylor's inaction during it, this mini-arc's biggest problem is that the character interactions feel as though they're done in triplicate; Taylor hears some new information about Ritsuka's status, makes her replies, and then goes off to Marie and one of the Servants or Romani to have that same conversation two more times, making broadly the same points and arguments each time except now she's the one conveying the new information to them. And every time, she has the same self-castigating internal monologue about how tempted she is to get Shakespeare to toss her into the curse anyways, damn what the rest of them say. That this happens for three chapters over three days only reinforces that feeling.
The inaction isn't even necessarily a problem, in my view; there's a unique tension to a situation where you can't spring into action yet, but you need to be ready to at any moment, and the frustrations it would carry when the action involves saving the life of someone Taylor cares about, especially given her hangups about being anything resembling a bystander to another's suffering could produce some really solid character beats.
The problem is that those moments don't really materialize; instead of having Taylor physically run around playing telephone, have her familiars do it while one of the Servants pulls her into some idle timewaster so she doesn't spend the whole of the wait tense like piano wire and wallowing in her frustration. It could have been a solid couple of scenes with Aife, Siegfried, heck, even Bradamante.
Which all three of them could sorely use; Siegfried's barely appeared at all since France, most of Aife's on-screen appearances have just been her fighting the newest poor SOB to get in front of Toranchless, and when Bradamante appears its always some other character to interact with her on the periphery of Taylor's narration.
The inaction isn't even necessarily a problem, in my view; there's a unique tension to a situation where you can't spring into action yet, but you need to be ready to at any moment, and the frustrations it would carry when the action involves saving the life of someone Taylor cares about, especially given her hangups about being anything resembling a bystander to another's suffering could produce some really solid character beats.
The problem is that those moments don't really materialize; instead of having Taylor physically run around playing telephone, have her familiars do it while one of the Servants pulls her into some idle timewaster so she doesn't spend the whole of the wait tense like piano wire and wallowing in her frustration. It could have been a solid couple of scenes with Aife, Siegfried, heck, even Bradamante.
Which all three of them could sorely use; Siegfried's barely appeared at all since France, most of Aife's on-screen appearances have just been her fighting the newest poor SOB to get in front of Toranchless, and when Bradamante appears its always some other character to interact with her on the periphery of Taylor's narration.
Personally, I'd like this abysmal arc to just end, and never be spoken of again, with some retconning. No more regressive character development for Taylor, no more Taylor learning to always be a bystander, no more butchering Taylor's character and so forth. In my mind, this abomination never happened.
Hopefully in London Taylor will be able to do something, and actually grow a massive amount to make up for all the singularities of her just existing, maybe from Zolgen or something. She's somehow still in a far shittier position than she was as fucking Skitter, and we're nearing the half-way point in the singularities, in a far higher powered world, while she's ineffectual and superfluous to the point wherein she may as well not even exist at all she has such minor narrative weight.
It would be nice if her growth was cheesed to make her actually fucking useful and an active agent in the plot, as well as the author de-lobotomizing her so she'd actually act like real post-GM Taylor would have been after being plunged into another apocalypse - by using all her available resources as effectively and as to the greatest extent as possible. That means getting Shakespeare to bling her out, learning as much as humanly possible from the Servants, and so forth. Hell, learn tactics and strategy from fucking Zhuge Liang, but imho, unless OP is actually willing to make Taylor actually immensely talented at literally anything in this fic (I'm not gonna hold my breath there given how dirty Taylor's been done in so many ways, and how she's been artificially crippled and forcefully cotorted into this shape), it's a lost cause. Almost every Servant has a tactics skill, something Taylor would never be able to compete with in a million years unless she was a complete and utter genius in the field, and even if she was, so what? Her end impact is still negligable, and unless she somehow winds up EX rank, she'd still be massively underqualified to command compared to her own damn Servants, and she still would be sitting around being mostly ineffectual.
Maybe OP will let them summon a teacher that has hero-making skills like Merlin, but I'm doubtful, Taylor has gotta stay a pure spectator in her own fic, she's not allowed to interact with, or accomplish anything by herself, and is solely permitted to be a living battery that occasionally orders a far more qualified Servant to do things that they'd do anyway, or uses her inferior unranked tactics & strategy to boss around a bunch of people far better at it than her.
I want Taylor to be treated with actual respect in her own fic, is that too much to ask? I can barely feel her presence, let alone her impact. The last thing she actually did was fight that Wyvern, everything else since that point, she may as well not have existed. Unsurprisingly, that was also when the entire narrative started treating her, her ethos, and her desire to be useful and actually accomplish things on her own steam like complete shit. I feel like every goddamn arc it keeps hammering in, over and over, 'nuh uh Taylor, don't even think of exercising your agency at all, or god forbid, trying to do or accomplish anything yourself! Get back inthe kitchen back of the party where you belong! No self-improvement for you either young miss, you exist solely to train Ritsuka and Rika, even when there are numerous people far more qualified and free to do so, that might give you ideas!'.
God, this story has gotten ever the more frustrating recently. I'm going to stick with it through London, but I'm running out of patience here and if nothing changes, what's even was the point of this fic? You could easily read it thus far with Ritsuka subbed in for Taylor with very little discongruity, which is not a good look, and most of the changes are natural, but due to environmental changes rather than Taylor doing things. Likewise, Taylor can literally do and interact with absolutely nothing meaningfully thus far, not even her bugs ever accomplish anything at all.
It's like OP saw a power fantasy and said 'yup, let's do the exact opposite of that', and instead of going with the actual opposite of one, something like Re:Zero, Berserk, or Muv Luv where the characters have to struggle and claw their way through things, but aren't entirely helpless, their influence is felt, and every scrap of power is earned and desperately attained, instead tossed Taylor into a world where there is nothing to do but fight, while she is rendered incapable of impacting absolutely anything in any way at all. It's a terrible combination, if you wanted to tell that sort of story, you'd have tossed her absolutely anywhere but FGO, maybe F/SN/F/Z or PMMM, but FGO is literally all powerlevels. The equivalent is following a 0 power level human in DBZ that cheerleads from the sidelines and never actually improves in and of themselves for hundreds of thousands of words, it'd be beyond awful past the short term. Now if it changed beats so it's now this untalented 0 powerlevel desperately trying to get stronger as an untalented hack in a world of monsters, ala Possessing Nothing, it'd be compelling, but again, the FGO setting actively prohibits such slow and freeform growth due to the short timeline, not to mention the utter lack of any sort of progress at all thus far halfway through.
Who knows, maybe OP will have a bout of sanity and retcon in that Taylor has been actually working her ass off offscreen, and gains a slew of capabilities due to finally becoming good enough at whatever she's been working on? In truth, unlikely. She'll probably just get shitty bland shadow servants: bug edition to somehow even further homogenize her with Ritsuka.
Hopefully in London Taylor will be able to do something, and actually grow a massive amount to make up for all the singularities of her just existing, maybe from Zolgen or something. She's somehow still in a far shittier position than she was as fucking Skitter, and we're nearing the half-way point in the singularities, in a far higher powered world, while she's ineffectual and superfluous to the point wherein she may as well not even exist at all she has such minor narrative weight.
It would be nice if her growth was cheesed to make her actually fucking useful and an active agent in the plot, as well as the author de-lobotomizing her so she'd actually act like real post-GM Taylor would have been after being plunged into another apocalypse - by using all her available resources as effectively and as to the greatest extent as possible. That means getting Shakespeare to bling her out, learning as much as humanly possible from the Servants, and so forth. Hell, learn tactics and strategy from fucking Zhuge Liang, but imho, unless OP is actually willing to make Taylor actually immensely talented at literally anything in this fic (I'm not gonna hold my breath there given how dirty Taylor's been done in so many ways, and how she's been artificially crippled and forcefully cotorted into this shape), it's a lost cause. Almost every Servant has a tactics skill, something Taylor would never be able to compete with in a million years unless she was a complete and utter genius in the field, and even if she was, so what? Her end impact is still negligable, and unless she somehow winds up EX rank, she'd still be massively underqualified to command compared to her own damn Servants, and she still would be sitting around being mostly ineffectual.
Maybe OP will let them summon a teacher that has hero-making skills like Merlin, but I'm doubtful, Taylor has gotta stay a pure spectator in her own fic, she's not allowed to interact with, or accomplish anything by herself, and is solely permitted to be a living battery that occasionally orders a far more qualified Servant to do things that they'd do anyway, or uses her inferior unranked tactics & strategy to boss around a bunch of people far better at it than her.
I want Taylor to be treated with actual respect in her own fic, is that too much to ask? I can barely feel her presence, let alone her impact. The last thing she actually did was fight that Wyvern, everything else since that point, she may as well not have existed. Unsurprisingly, that was also when the entire narrative started treating her, her ethos, and her desire to be useful and actually accomplish things on her own steam like complete shit. I feel like every goddamn arc it keeps hammering in, over and over, 'nuh uh Taylor, don't even think of exercising your agency at all, or god forbid, trying to do or accomplish anything yourself! Get back in
God, this story has gotten ever the more frustrating recently. I'm going to stick with it through London, but I'm running out of patience here and if nothing changes, what's even was the point of this fic? You could easily read it thus far with Ritsuka subbed in for Taylor with very little discongruity, which is not a good look, and most of the changes are natural, but due to environmental changes rather than Taylor doing things. Likewise, Taylor can literally do and interact with absolutely nothing meaningfully thus far, not even her bugs ever accomplish anything at all.
It's like OP saw a power fantasy and said 'yup, let's do the exact opposite of that', and instead of going with the actual opposite of one, something like Re:Zero, Berserk, or Muv Luv where the characters have to struggle and claw their way through things, but aren't entirely helpless, their influence is felt, and every scrap of power is earned and desperately attained, instead tossed Taylor into a world where there is nothing to do but fight, while she is rendered incapable of impacting absolutely anything in any way at all. It's a terrible combination, if you wanted to tell that sort of story, you'd have tossed her absolutely anywhere but FGO, maybe F/SN/F/Z or PMMM, but FGO is literally all powerlevels. The equivalent is following a 0 power level human in DBZ that cheerleads from the sidelines and never actually improves in and of themselves for hundreds of thousands of words, it'd be beyond awful past the short term. Now if it changed beats so it's now this untalented 0 powerlevel desperately trying to get stronger as an untalented hack in a world of monsters, ala Possessing Nothing, it'd be compelling, but again, the FGO setting actively prohibits such slow and freeform growth due to the short timeline, not to mention the utter lack of any sort of progress at all thus far halfway through.
Who knows, maybe OP will have a bout of sanity and retcon in that Taylor has been actually working her ass off offscreen, and gains a slew of capabilities due to finally becoming good enough at whatever she's been working on? In truth, unlikely. She'll probably just get shitty bland shadow servants: bug edition to somehow even further homogenize her with Ritsuka.
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i dunno if i'd go as far as 'this arc should be forgotten, nothing of worth is in it, taylor should fuck up the entire grand order by getting ritsuka killed going into the curse cause anything else is out of character, taylor should be able to fight a servant alone at this point', but i can definitely see where those stances come from, this arc does have issues, but they feel fairly easy to fix, and it does have worth as well as solid plot points, taylor too is reasonable enough to make the choice to not go in, to say otherwise is doing a disservice to taylor i feel, and finally, while i do not think taylor should be able to fight a servant alone, she should be able to contribute, if rin can help as much as she helps archer in his fights, then there's definitely options for taylor, she even did so early on, with those rune stones, set up multiple enemy servants for instant death via flashbang + arrow barrage, and i thought the plot was moving in the direction of her learning runes to make stones herself, but that has completely halted, and she also stopped trying to use her bug control for much of anything beyond being lookout, there is definitely an issue with her being too passive, taylor does not like being idle as this arc has shown, but even before that she's been acting very idle in the downtimes, this arc has just made that issue way more apparent and acted as a straw breaking the camels back for some i think
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Karyis
procrastinating as we speak
- Location
- Texas
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I'm actually super glad people have been giving their opinions of why the arc worked for them. I agree that the themes here are good, I actually really like that Taylor's not charging in and saving the day. The core theme of this story is what makes this stand out from other wormfics to me, and part of why I like it so much. My issue was more that it was extended for as long as it was, because that (to me) ended up pushing the effect of empathizing with the characters' "wait and hope" dilemma into audience apathy.
That's what I meant by:
...which I'm now realizing has terrible wording. I should've let that post sit in the oven a bit longer to ensure I actually said what I meant to say, because that wording is not it. I apologize for that. Please let me clarify:
Obviously, that hypothetical doesn't apply to James. And the problem I described is entirely different from the notion of a "breather" chapter that lets the action take a break so the audience isn't overwhelmed. Again, downtime isn't bad--it's all about the execution. I do feel like this was a good arc to have, it's just that its execution didn't feel like it worked. I hope that what I said makes sense now.
I really am happy that it did work for some people, though. It's nice to see others coming in and explaining they enjoyed it. I was worried about this turning into another huge dogpile like with what happened in AEoSaS (as well as worried that I could've contributed to such a thing happening), but it's looking like that won't be the case. I'm relieved.
That's what I meant by:
...which I'm now realizing has terrible wording. I should've let that post sit in the oven a bit longer to ensure I actually said what I meant to say, because that wording is not it. I apologize for that. Please let me clarify:
It's not bad to want to make the audience empathize with what characters are going through, including that sort of frustration of having to wait and do nothing. But there still needs to be substance within such a chapter (or several) that engages the audience and gives them a feeling like something is being done. In the universe where this played out over two or so chapters, the audience apathy wouldn't have existed here and there still would've been a feeling of "movement," if that makes sense. The fact that it was extended to four chapters is what allowed that boredom and apathy to set in, because of the repetition (which I pointed to other examples of from earlier chapters/arcs to help demonstrate) and how it erased that feeling of "movement" that was there before.
The reason why I said "doesn't matter if its for a single chapter or several" was meant more in the sense of--using that snippet from Septem again--having the audience feel that you're "wasting time" by describing things that aren't necessary, like how I (personally) felt that it wasn't necessary to include those few paragraphs in order to capture the feeling of walking for a long time in a hot, cramped tunnel.
Let's say a different author tries to replicate what this arc does here, except it's confined to a single chapter. In this hypothetical, that chapter would've focused entirely on that feeling of frustration, nothing happening, and a general sense of the characters not doing anything because they have no choice but to wait. This would've led to that chapter having a much higher wordcount, because by confining it to a single chapter, that hypothetical author would've had to hammer those feelings in even harder by dragging the scene on, and on, and on. Their audience would've been upset then, too, because they would've read what felt like a whole lot of words wasted on nothing, even if the reason for it would've been resolved by the end. Meaning that this hypothetical author made an entirely pointless chapter that did nothing for their story.
That's what I meant by "if it's for a single chapter or several." Because that situation I described would've been a poor creative choice on that author's part.
The reason why I said "doesn't matter if its for a single chapter or several" was meant more in the sense of--using that snippet from Septem again--having the audience feel that you're "wasting time" by describing things that aren't necessary, like how I (personally) felt that it wasn't necessary to include those few paragraphs in order to capture the feeling of walking for a long time in a hot, cramped tunnel.
Let's say a different author tries to replicate what this arc does here, except it's confined to a single chapter. In this hypothetical, that chapter would've focused entirely on that feeling of frustration, nothing happening, and a general sense of the characters not doing anything because they have no choice but to wait. This would've led to that chapter having a much higher wordcount, because by confining it to a single chapter, that hypothetical author would've had to hammer those feelings in even harder by dragging the scene on, and on, and on. Their audience would've been upset then, too, because they would've read what felt like a whole lot of words wasted on nothing, even if the reason for it would've been resolved by the end. Meaning that this hypothetical author made an entirely pointless chapter that did nothing for their story.
That's what I meant by "if it's for a single chapter or several." Because that situation I described would've been a poor creative choice on that author's part.
Obviously, that hypothetical doesn't apply to James. And the problem I described is entirely different from the notion of a "breather" chapter that lets the action take a break so the audience isn't overwhelmed. Again, downtime isn't bad--it's all about the execution. I do feel like this was a good arc to have, it's just that its execution didn't feel like it worked. I hope that what I said makes sense now.
I really am happy that it did work for some people, though. It's nice to see others coming in and explaining they enjoyed it. I was worried about this turning into another huge dogpile like with what happened in AEoSaS (as well as worried that I could've contributed to such a thing happening), but it's looking like that won't be the case. I'm relieved.