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Hereafter [Worm x Fate/Grand Order]

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Wolfkiller said:
My take on that is that it's to get them moving, so that they don't faff about. Now it will be pointless if this is the only time it happen, it will fit better if it was used in conjunction with the enemy getting closer to winning, as a point of no return.
Hopefully Fawkes will remember to have them keep an eye out for the early signs of it happening so that it gets them moving.
As for the lore stuff with character development and that, I wouldn't know, never got pass Orleans.
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They already have a time limit of 11:59 PM December 31st 2016 to clear all the Singularities. Them having time differential in a Singularity when communicating to Chaldea is necessary as it is, but this new one, a secondary one, out of no where feels like just adding drama for the sake of drama and that's just not great. It feels like @James D. Fawkes is adding a personal meta time limit on time in the story just to speed things up to motivate himself to get past this Singularity.

I'm probably not interpreting that right, but it just rankles me. Drama purely for the sake of drama is one of my most hated pet peeves in story telling. Its why Worm and 90% of the more darker stories are utter failures to me, despite having such interesting sandboxes they've created it's always weighed down by having absolutely horrible things happen for little to no reason in story only to up the stakes for the reader outside it.

I should make clear I'm not just trying to dunk on James's story. Thus far it's been pretty good, it's had its bumps particularly in Orleans, but I can see possible signs of impending literary disaster, and the fact I want to see this story become a completed work and be great means I now care, and thus I want to point those potential roadblocks out ahead of time. I've seen so many good stories just never get finished, professional or otherwise, and I don't want to see the same happen here.
 
I likewise don't really mind Aife. She's technically an OC, but she's so embroiled in FGO's biggest names that it's more like a cameo than an OC. It's similar to FGO not having Morrigan/Morgana/Morgan despite the whole massive shitstorm that is Nasuverse Arthurian legend; her showing up doesn't make her an OC, it makes more sense than canon.

That said, her showing up in Septum doesn't necessarily make more sense than in canon, but it also doesn't not make sense considering every other servant that gets added in singularities.

I will agree that, on closer inspection... she's a bit stand-offish. I don't mean as a character trait (though that's true), it's more that with that character trait it limits her social interaction. We got a peek into how she could relate socially to the rest of the cast with the interlude regarding dreams of Taylor's past, but there honestly should be more. She's included in a lot of scenes, but she's separate. That runs the risk of involving her in everything, sure, but I do think that the social connections are lacking.

How does she impact Taylor's development (and I don't mean power level)? Mash's? The Twins'? Emiya's? Her own? She just kind of exists. There are hints, but not much payoff so far. And maybe that works fine for the intended length of this fic, and in the grand scope the pacing is fine, but delivered serially we have a lot of time to reflect on it and find it a bit wanting.

Waver Velvet Lord El Melloi II is also kind of in this boat. He's there but very separated. He comes to mind less because he works as a good straight man, a magus who has been traditionally trained reacting at the absurd hijinks of Chaldea, and that's an actual social connection rather than the not-quite team player that Aife is. We also have the benefit of knowing him from multiple canon sources, but we lack that for Aife.

Boudica is more developed than either of them at this point in the story, even though Aife got an entire interlude to flesh out her character, because her connections are well-defined - or at least better-defined.

This is not a big gripe, just some observations since others have raised some criticisms and concerns. I'm still loving the story.
 
Speaking specifically to the thing about the time limit changing, that was less about speeding the narrative along and more about saying, "There are consequences to doing the sort of high resolution scan they did at Etna," so that something like that can't be an obvious solution to their intelligence gathering.
 
James D. Fawkes said:
Speaking specifically to the thing about the time limit changing, that was less about speeding the narrative along and more about saying, "There are consequences to doing the sort of high resolution scan they did at Etna," so that something like that can't be an obvious solution to their intelligence gathering.
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Okay that makes a bit more sense, and if they now know not to ever do so again, because it'll fuck up their chances at success it's an acceptable addition I suppose. If they were to do that in every Singularity it'd be game over so that's good. There's just no way they're getting through America in anything less than half a year to them subjectively, the terrain is just too mountainous and untamed comparatively to Septem even with potential Rider support, and I'm honestly guessing it will take longer.

It's a good thing time spent subjectively while Rayshifting doesn't age their actual bodies. It's easy to forget as the reader/player that Canon Ritsuka and Mash travel a lot and for a very long period of time in between sections in the story sometimes. They spend an entire month being a gofer or general helper to the citizenry of Uruk in Babylonia in between sections when they first get to Uruk with Merlin and Ana, just as an example. As for why I say their bodies don't age, it's a simple and logical extrapolation of the fact that Mash would've died long before the Final Singularity if the time spent subjectively while Rayshifting was ageing their actual bodies.
 
Windborne said:
Okay that makes a bit more sense, and if they now know not to ever do so again, because it'll fuck up their chances at success it's an acceptable addition I suppose. If they were to do that in every Singularity it'd be game over so that's good. There's just no way they're getting through America in anything less than half a year to them subjectively, the terrain is just too mountainous and untamed comparatively to Septem even with potential Rider support, and I'm honestly guessing it will take longer.

It's a good thing time spent subjectively while Rayshifting doesn't age their actual bodies. It's easy to forget as the reader/player that Canon Ritsuka and Mash travel a lot and for a very long period of time in between sections in the story sometimes. They spend an entire month being a gofer or general helper to the citizenry of Uruk in Babylonia in between sections when they first get to Uruk with Merlin and Ana, just as an example. As for why I say their bodies don't age, it's a simple and logical extrapolation of the fact that Mash would've died long before the Final Singularity if the time spent subjectively while Rayshifting was ageing their actual bodies.
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Yeah if they have any hope of making it through America in any reasonable amount of time they better get used to flying Arash Airlines.
 
This whole Aife and Scathach repeated debate (I didn't like Aife in Essence and still don't here) reminded me of a post about a month ago on the FGO subreddit regarding some of Scathach's lore relating to how she could create multiple Gae Bolg as she liked which unsurprisingly also gives some Aife lore as well. To be specific, there exist a poem which names Aife as Scathach's daughter. Note that it notably contradicts every other source but it exists which means it can apply onto Heroic Spirit Aife to a similar vein as 'Innocent Monster' might.

Personally, I find it hiralious if Aife is hiding a skill that lets her draw strength from Scathach's legend but only if she declares herself as her daughter (something something lets her replicate most of Scathach's BS...except Aife is already that so it's kind of a useless skill except it's super embarrassing for Aife to have).
 
I've all but given up hope that they're going to do Aife properly at any point. It's part of why I'm doing her myself so much.

I don't know what attracts me to her so much. Realistically speaking, while she and Scathach have pretty close to equal screentime in the myths, there's more detail about Sca than her, and yet for some reason, Aife appeals to me on a deeper level. It's strange.
 
Formerly said:
Yeah if they have any hope of making it through America in any reasonable amount of time they better get used to flying Arash Airlines.
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That's actually not a particularly viable method of travel. Just as a reminder that incident occurs Canonically over a relatively short distance, maybe 5-10 kilometers at most I think, and worked because it was launched from a mountain to another mountain. And that was only used because it was an extremely dire emergency and could've easily killed Ritsuka if enemies started firing on them in transit, and that was a serious possibility with Tristan around. With the time differential, them traveling over land is actually safer. The only way traveling via the air would be consistently safe is with someone like Astolfo on his Hippogryph or Gilgamesh's Vimana, and good luck getting Gilgamesh to loan it to you, Taylor might be able to borrow it, but not the Twins; or with a flying fortress Noble Phantasm like Semiramis or Charlemagne has.
 
Windborne said:
That's actually not a particularly viable method of travel. Just as a reminder that incident occurs Canonically over a relatively short distance, maybe 5-10 kilometers at most I think, and worked because it was launched from a mountain to another mountain. And that was only used because it was an extremely dire emergency and could've easily killed Ritsuka if enemies started firing on them in transit, and that was a serious possibility with Tristan around. With the time differential, them traveling over land is actually safer. The only way traveling via the air would be consistently safe is with someone like Astolfo on his Hippogryph or Gilgamesh's Vimana, and good luck getting Gilgamesh to loan it to you, Taylor might be able to borrow it, but not the Twins; or with a flying fortress Noble Phantasm like Semiramis or Charlemagne has.
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Well the idea is more for quickly traversing the extremely mountainous terrain of Appalachia and its surroundings.
 
Windborne said:
The only way traveling via the air would be consistently safe is with someone like Astolfo on his Hippogryph or Gilgamesh's Vimana, and good luck getting Gilgamesh to loan it to you, Taylor might be able to borrow it, but not the Twins; or with a flying fortress Noble Phantasm like Semiramis or Charlemagne has.
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Where is Hakuno when you need him?

Aerial/Terrestrial fast travel in early singularities?
Hmmm, if we are going to include late servants in earlier singularities Achilles would be the fastest with his chariot?
There was also Iskandar chariot.
...Chariots are probably too small.
Drake did have flying ships.
...There are probably some servants that i'm missing.

Not mentioning that those servants probably would be summoned after America unless they are summoned earlier somehow.
 
I don't mind Aife. Anyone who calls her a Mary Sue does not know what the term really means, as she is not warping the story around her nearly enough to qualify. It is a bit weird that the author includes her twice, and the runes are a bit eh when you consider that not being in caster should REALLY limit what she can do with them more than it seems to be doing, but I have my own people I really want to see as servants (cough Oppenheimer and the Oracle of Delphi cough) so I get the urge to include her.
 
rafuki22 said:
...Chariots are probably too small.
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Beyond that, the problem with chariots is that they suck at land travel if the land isn't tamed a bit like America's land. Achilles and Iskander can get by that with their chariots because they can fly, but that seems to be a bit too cheaty. And still not very safe for other passengers like Masters potentially when dealing with Servants like Arjuna or Edison.

Young Pyromancer said:
and the runes are a bit eh when you consider that not being in caster should REALLY limit what she can do with them more than it seems to be doing.
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Primordial Runes are extremely special, and if you notice in game the skill actually doesn't have a Rank for Scathach. They are all kinds of cheats, which is why Scathach can modify Spirit Origins. I really don't enjoy OC Servants when there are already too many Canon Servants, and some of those don't get a bunch of screen time, besides Oppenheimer would be an extremely weak Servant, weaker than most US Presidents in fact. He probably wouldn't even be able to manifest outside of the Moon Cell. Even then he'd still be extremely weak. To the point someone like Rin or Kirei might be able to take him out with a bit of planning. Not a particularly useful Servant.
 
Windborne said:
Oppenheimer would be an extremely weak Servant, weaker than most US Presidents in fact. He probably wouldn't even be able to manifest outside of the Moon Cell. Even then he'd still be extremely weak. To the point someone like Rin or Kirei might be able to take him out with a bit of planning. Not a particularly useful Servant.
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Not if he's a combined spirit like Van Gogh. I've heard a lot of (copium) theories that he's gonna be Shiva. You know, god of destruction, destroyer of worlds?
 
AsuraAtlas said:
Not if he's a combined spirit like Van Gogh. I've heard a lot of (copium) theories that he's gonna be Shiva. You know, god of destruction, destroyer of worlds?
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Point, but those Servants, High-Servants I believe would be the correct term, are very strange and very, very, rare. I think there's a total of less than 10 we know about? Besides Shiva already showed up, sort of. Altjuna is an amalgamation of every Hindu god, but Ganesha, if I remember correctly. Altjuna was repeatedly destroying and then recreating the world every few days. It's why it was a Lostbelt, it only lead to stagnation.
 
Isiri Pudireach said:
From what I remember, the Beast Kama was revealed to have been another escapee
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I don't think that's right but I could be wrong. I thought that was just a situation where Beast III-R (I think it's R) took advantage of being summoned in that situation in order to start up a Singularity by co-opting the Ooku. I know Parvati was going to be wiped out after that situation since Kasuga really strained her Spirit Origin pulling the trick she did. So she sent one of her kids to help us out in the next Lostbelt (which was Yugakshetra or however you spell it). Said kid was Ganesha. Kama might've fled, but I thought most Servants can't travel between Lostbelts.
 
Windborne said:
Beyond that, the problem with chariots is that they suck at land travel if the land isn't tamed a bit like America's land. Achilles and Iskander can get by that with their chariots because they can fly, but that seems to be a bit too cheaty. And still not very safe for other passengers like Masters potentially when dealing with Servants like Arjuna or Edison.



Primordial Runes are extremely special, and if you notice in game the skill actually doesn't have a Rank for Scathach. They are all kinds of cheats, which is why Scathach can modify Spirit Origins. I really don't enjoy OC Servants when there are already too many Canon Servants, and some of those don't get a bunch of screen time, besides Oppenheimer would be an extremely weak Servant, weaker than most US Presidents in fact. He probably wouldn't even be able to manifest outside of the Moon Cell. Even then he'd still be extremely weak. To the point someone like Rin or Kirei might be able to take him out with a bit of planning. Not a particularly useful Servant.
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Okay, is there any reason besides age that you think Oppenheimer would be a weak Servant? Because I'll have to bring up Tesla again in that case. And sure most US Presidents are older than him, but only the most famous of them have more name recognition.

Not that that means that Rin or Kirei couldn't take this theoretical Archer or Caster Oppenheimer, but that would be them planning well and taking advantage of his probable low physical stats, which doesn't necessarily make him a weak Servant overall. Rin beat the crap out Medea in CQC until her Master stepped in to save her, but that doesn't change the fact that Medea's one of the most powerful and versatile Casters we've seen, punching just wasn't where those strengths lay.
 
memoryofglory said:
Okay, is there any reason besides age that you think Oppenheimer would be a weak Servant? Because I'll have to bring up Tesla again in that case. And sure most US Presidents are older than him, but only the most famous of them have more name recognition.

Not that that means that Rin or Kirei couldn't take this theoretical Archer or Caster Oppenheimer, but that would be them planning well and taking advantage of his probable low physical stats, which doesn't necessarily make him a weak Servant overall. Rin beat the crap out Medea in CQC until her Master stepped in to save her, but that doesn't change the fact that Medea's one of the most powerful and versatile Casters we've seen, punching just wasn't where those strengths lay.
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Age is part of it, but fame is another. When people think guns they think S&W or Colt. He's historical, and if you have the right kind of knowledge you'll know about him, but to a general person on the street you could ask them who Oppenheimer was and get an "I don't know" at least half the time. That's a problem with some Presidents as well of course, but I see Oppenheimer as being the Nobukatsu to someone like Colt's Nobunaga. Important, but not particularly well known.

Tesla on the other hand is special. He's one of the few Star Attributed Servants, and those are incredibly, incredibly rare. Drake, Da Vinci, Napoleon, and Voyager are the others that come to mind. But to become a Star Attribute Servant is to have engraved your name and legend so deeply onto Human History that you changed the course of it forever. Being a Star Attribute Servant is a big fucking deal. These are Servants that by sheer importance to history can stand against the biggest and baddest Servants. Gilgamesh would have trouble facing off against one of them, and they're some of the few Servants not vulnerable to Ea.

As an example Extra Shinji only lost to Hakuno because he's a crap Master that fought Hakuno during the week before the designated match. Drake should've wiped the floor with them, but because Hakuno found out who Drake was before the actual match they could counter her.
 
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Also keep in mind the claim to fame of the only WW2 era servant we know of, is being perhaps the weakest Servant in Fate, and almost certainly the weakest servant in Chaldea.

As for Edison, the difference between the 1800's and 1942 is fucking huge in terms of mystery difference, and we're told fairly often that he's only an average strength Servant anyway, and without Washingtons blessing he would be a complete weakling. Also he's way more famous in Japan than nearly everywhere else for some reason so that probably has something to do with it.

I'm not saying modern servants can't be op (I've always been in the camp that a Taylor Servant should be absolutely busted), but you'd have to pull some of that good old Type-Moon Bullshit™ to find an excuse.
 
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